Highest Reputation Content

What about the Rapture?
When you hear the term rapture, what exactly comes to mind? Chances are you either picture images of total chaos, destruction and death or you just became a little bit nervous and possibly even completely uncomfortable. You don’t have to look any further than cable television and Hollywood to see that we are obsessed when it comes to our fate and the end of the world.

There are a million different ways that humanity will supposedly be extinguished and theories and predictions are not just limited to the religious groups of the world.
Unfortunately, popular opinions pretty much took over the discussion, and we are left with total confusion.  A large portion of the Christian sphere led this charge and cashed in on the craze as much as Hollywood.

Instead of shying away from the reality that Jesus will one day return, why don’t we simply trash the opinions and popular culture mythology and look at what the Bible has to say? Let’s start right now with a prayer for wisdom, patience, and a little bit of understanding when it comes to the return of Jesus.
Before I dive into the Bible, let’s clear something up. I’m not a fan of the term rapture. As many correctly note, the word is not in the Bible. This is mostly true because this word is Latin and it was used in place of the Greek word harpazo. It literally means to be caught up. About a century or more ago, this word meant to be totally caught up in something like music. A modern equivalent might be what we mean when we say that he or she “got lost” in the music. Unfortunately, this was a term which evolved from meaning a general caching away to a very specific catching away at a very specific time.

Rapture came to be shorthand for Pre-Tribulational Rapture. It’s a big-boy-word term that means we are taken away before the trouble starts (tribulation = big trouble). As the Rapture grew in prominence and became more evil, the assurance that we would escape it seemed to become stronger. But again, what does the Bible actually say?

Matthew 16:17 ESV And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
This verse is crucial to the understanding of all books in the Bible, but this seems to be forgotten when it comes to books dealing with the end of the world like Ezekiel, Daniel, Thessalonians and Revelation. One thing that needs to get hammered into your head is this is all about Jesus and not about time, places, or battles.

Brief [Pre-Tribulational] Rapture History
It is history lesson time. The Rapture hit new levels of popularity in late 19^th century America. It was based on teachings by a man named John Darby. Another man, William Eugene Blackstone, took the idea even further and further popularized the idea. You can do a search to read more on these men, but I wanted to include their names. Eventually this would lead to a Bible called the Scofield Reference Bible which you can still purchase to this day.  However, if we back up to Darby, we will find that another minister by the name of Edward Irving influenced Mr. Darby – Irving himself took the idea from a young sickly woman named Margaret Macdonald. Miss Macdonald lay sick on her bed as she claimed the revelation of new prophecy regarding two returns of Jesus. The reality is this event is not openly discussed by any scholar, historian, or early Christians.

The Return of Jesus in the Bible
Now we come to the important part. The Bible has many references to what will happen when Jesus returns to the earth. You may hear this term called the second advent from time to time, and advent is simply another word for coming. Rapture pundits love this verse:

I Thessalonians 4:16 ESV For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Rapture believers talk about a moment when good Christians simply (and randomly) disappear. One popular film portrays planes without pilots and all manner of sudden chaos. How about we take a quick step back and look at the verse, though? Notice how the trumpet of God is played, and trumpets just aren’t very quiet instruments. In addition to this not-so-quiet appearance, there is only a one-time appearance between Jesus appearing and the dead in Christi raising.

I Thessalonians 4:17 ESV Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Not too complicated here, is it? See, the English word “then” indicates that whatever is stated after “then” takes place after whatever comes before “then.” The Lord (Jesus) returns, the dead rise first, and then living Christians will be caught up with Jesus.

Paul, the guy who wrote the first letter we like to call I Thessalonians, actually ended up writing another letter we originally called II Thessalonians. The great irony is that Paul wrote the second letter to clarify the first letter because the Thessalonians had trouble with their end time views:

II Thessalonians 2:1-15 ESV Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
   But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

The emphasis in the passage is mine. Verse three says don’t let any man deceive you. You will see that there is a very strong focus on deception. Keep in mind that Paul wrote this letter to early Christians.

The English Standard Version (ESV) Bible does a great job of rendering the word rebellion. This rebellion comes first – that is to say clearly that it comes prior to the return of Jesus. Now I realize there have been a number of rebellions in history and this term might seem vague. However, if you look at the Strong’s Concordance, the word means defection from the truth, as in a revolt or rebellion. This is not a generic verse about nonChristians rebelling against God. In order to rebel, you have to be subject to what you are rebelling against.

I stop short of saying that Christians will knowingly and willingly rebel against God, but the warnings about deception indicate that those involved can fool Christians. The involved people or groups at least appear to be Christian in nature.

The next clue in the passage comes in II Thessalonians 2:3. The son of destruction/man of lawlessness is important. The Greek for this term is apoleia (Strong’s #G0684) and it means ruin or loss. Many theories abound on this person, but a common view is that this person is Judas. This view was merely created to make the Rapture theory work. This man is Satan, and in other passages in the Bible, Satan was condemned to death. Unlike us, he has nowhere to go and no way to repent.

While Satan’s condemnation is another study for another time, II Thessalonians 2:9-11 cannot be overlooked. Fortunately, the ESV is almost crystal clear at this point. The person will operate with all of the power of Satan – meaning he can perform miracles and appears quite powerful. Does that sound like anyone else you might have heard about? (Hint: Use the Sunday school answer. It’s Jesus.) Jesus is described as having power and performing miracles. Might this tie into the deception? Does the plot thicken when I mention that all major religions of the world have some form of savior that performs miracles and saves the world?

Matthew 24:3-14 ESV As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Please read all of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. One of the clear messages of this passage (and the others) is that there will be deception going down all over the place. The passage says that the one who endures to the end (Matthew 24:13) will be saved. We are in it for the long haul – there’s simply no room for an early rapture exit.
Matthew 24:15 talks about the abomination of desolation in the Old Testament. I won’t jump into Daniel here, but you can find the reference in Daniel 12:11. If you link this passage with II Thessalonians 2:4 – it becomes obvious who the abomination is at this time. This guy claims that he is God. Sound familiar at all? If your answer is Satan – ding, ding, we have a winner!

So many people are focused on a physical rebuilding of the temple you read about in the Bible, but the passage in II Thessalonians 2:4 uses an interesting word for temple. The word is Greek naos (Strong’s #G3485). The word certainly means temple, but I’ll let you read for yourself as to what temple it might refer to:

I Corinthians 6:19 ESV Or do you not know that your body is a temple [naos] of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own…

Ephesians 2:20-21 ESV …built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple [naos] in the Lord.

Temple doesn’t always mean just a building. However, if a false Christ – an anti-Christ – shows up and sets himself up as god in the hearts and minds of the world the danger is obvious and the reports of deception make sense.

Matthew 24:26-28 ESV So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
We are presented with more warnings about deception. If someone shows up as Jesus here or there and makes the claim – don’t follow them. The last phrase is always treated as some sort of enigma or riddle even. However, it simply means that where there is death, then vultures will gather. Think of it this way where people do not understand Jesus, there is spiritual death and so those who look to benefit from death (like vultures that consume dead meat) will show up to take advantage.
But that’s enough sadness, because look at the finish:

Matthew 24:39-47 ESV and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
   “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
Just before this, in Matthew 24:30-31 it talks about a trumpet blowing. The sound of the trumpet will herald the return of Jesus for his people. This passage affirms that his people will not be found sitting around waiting on the master to return. Instead, the good servants will be found to be working and not simply waiting to be taken away.
Rapture believers take this verse and say you want to be taken – but the ones taken are not taken by Jesus. Jesus desires to return and find his servants doing the work of a Christian. We are to be on guard for deception – in the days of the Bible it was not uncommon for servants to be snatched in a raid on the master’s household. You simply don’t want to be the servant that got fooled and left the field of work.

There are many other verses in the Bible that help clear things up, but this study is already long. Let’s wrap up with one final Rapture believer favorite:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 ESV Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

“Behold!” is the old-school way of saying pay attention here. Note the word last right before trumpet and let the previous passages put that in perspective for you. There is no Rapture in the Pre-Tribulational sense of the word. I’ll let Scripture close out and confirm this argument:

Revelation 8:1-13 ESV When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.
Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.
   The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
   The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
   The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter.
   The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night.
   Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”

Revelation 9:1-3 ESV And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.

Revelation 9:20-21 ESV The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 10:1-11 ESV Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, and called out with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. When he called out, the seven thunders sounded. And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.” And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.
   Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me again, saying, “Go, take the scroll that is open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.” So I went to the angel and told him to give me the little scroll. And he said to me, “Take and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.” And I took the little scroll from the hand of the angel and ate it. It was sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it my stomach was made bitter. And I was told, “You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings.”

I realize that was a good bit of material – but do you see that there are seven trumpets in Revelation? Do you also see how at the seventh how the mystery of God is finished? Recall the earlier passages once again and see how they agree with the seventh trumpet here. It is a really awesome time of joy and peace at the end of a rough and trying period.

In closing, I simply want to point out that I did not cover the majority of verses on the subject. Verses were selected which are often misused or misquoted in popular mythology. However, if applied with other Bible verses – suddenly all of the imagery from these supposedly difficult to understand books make more sense.

Take this to God, but examine the passages that I pointed out (as well as other passages) and talk to Him about it. Even if you walk away from this lesson with a still solid belief in the Rapture, please do one thing for yourself. Simply know the signs and know the Bible when it talks about these things.

God Bless!

Study by: Denver, http://www.christianityboard.com/

Talk about someone needing to "humbly admit their error and repent."  ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

You are trying to make a complete claim with but a fraction of the information.

You are not qualified to say that 100% of the tongues spoken in Pentacostal churches is false.

The Bible says nothing of the sort.

I cannot begin to share with you just what you are missing out on.  How wonderfully it has impacted my relationship with Jesus.

Sadly, a closed mind can only be opened from the inside.

I see it as a salvation issue.

A Christian and a sinner are incompatible. However, a believer  that is, one who has come to Christ for forgiveness, will still commit sins until he is given revelation by God that it is not acceptable and he is not in the ark of safety unless he is saved from sin - this is the reason Christ died for us. Until he has been brought to that point, which is any time after he comes to Christ, and can be immediately after as we see by the thief on the cross, and given the full revelation and knowledge of the full salvation Christ gained for us, he will claim that he is positionally holy and acceptable. He is fooling himself. The day the Lord shows him this truth, he is undone and has come tot he end of himself and cries out with Paul - oh wretched man.


This allows Christ to carry out His full work in the man and he is delivered from the sin nature. Sadly this is not happening too much today. We are in dark times indeed when most oppose this most holy truth.

It is amazing that a little georgia redneck came to Australia and found a church filled with the Spirit of God and all of a sudden started to praying in tongues....mercy...Some are just scared of what they don't understand...Since when has God changed? Since when did tongues and other gifts stop? At Pentacost? mercy people read the Word and see that is when they started...I was taught in the good ole Baptist church that tongues were of the devil....Mercy come visit me and see God at Work...Truthseeker...you live in Sydney right? I live on the Central Coast...Come visit me and then tell me I am speaking for mr darkness...I dare ya to arrange to spend one day with me in the presence of God in my outreach ministry....Come on...spend a day with me or I can arrange for you to spend a day right there in Sydney with a ministry that will blow your socks off...talk about God supporting this ministry with a 10 million dollar ministry yearly and only giving them change to work with..and they pray in tongues and are a Jewish...Who do you think supplies the things to do His work...you ...me...church...Mercy...I received 7 thousand last year to run on...I gave out 1.3 million dollars worth of things...do you think satan can do that...he can only imitate..he can't give tongues to God's children...he sure does like to make others think they are from him so as to stop you from finding the voice needed to do battle in the spirit world....satan loves to make people think that if they speak in tongues they are speaking for him...LOL...Read the Word of God...Find the TRUTH..ask God...He will show you the Truth....

The line of thinking of the author is flawed on several fronts.  One, it makes the rather absurd assumption that all Christians do not question their faith.  But even more to the point, the author presupposes himself to the sole arbitor of what makes a question a "serious question" or a non-serious question.  He actually wonders why no Christian thinks about Christianity they way he does, because, obviously, there is no other way to think about Christianity apart from adopting his formula of "serious questioning".

Everything else that followed was merely crass skepticism, the lowest of the lowest forms of thought rather uninspiringly masquarading as critical examination.

To paraphrase the above, "The author is a tool."

Haha, the reason why i typed in large fonts is because i am afraid people would miss reading things i added later on. Because this forum does not allow us to edit our posts. So i am afraid if someone just read my first post then did not read things i added later then i might mislead them into just knowing half of what i wrote.

Lastsecman,

I have a question, in your opinion, what does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the Day of redemption?   ( Eph 4:30)

second question..  What are you trusting in for your Salvation?  Are you trusting in the free gift of Jesus Christ's sacrificial work on the cross, or once being made clean by the cross, you are trusting in your own ability not to sin?

Joshua David

Hi, I am a 23 year old newbie to this forum. I am a follower of Christ and would love to grow in his word here. However, everywhere I look I find where people are doing nothing but arguing with one another. Don't we want to bring people to Christ? Don't people already NOT want to go to church because they feel like they will be judged and that Christians are nothing but a bunch of fakers that argue all the time? I know this isn't technically a church but I would say this is a place for people to worship and grow in his word. As far as people who come to this forum that are not Christians, they probably laugh and say to themselves "I'm right about those Christians". I'm not trying to say that Christians are perfect...  all Christians are FAR from perfect, but shouldn't this forum be about bringing people to Christ rather than arguing all the time? To be honest I don't see how this forum can go on if people do nothing but argue...

Just think about how many people we could bring to Christ if we were focused on reaching the unreached instead of arguing with one another. I have to tell you it's not about YOU or ME... It's about Jesus... the one who died for us. So... why don't we come together as a community on this forum and come up with some ideas to put aside our differences and reach people? Think about how many people come by this forum daily... It could change their LIFE AND the WORLD we could be apart of God's wonderful work!

So what do you say Christianity Board? Would you like to put the arguing to the side and come together to make this a place of worship and reaching the lost? Or would you rather this place continue to be a place where the lost say they are right about Christians?

Findinghispath, you have had three members answer your post, which one told you the truth?  Maybe it doesn’t matter to you, maybe it does.  Maybe you don’t know.  Your id here is about a path, are you looking for just any path or would you prefer the correct path?  I don’t know anything about you but you seem to be interested in helping people come to faith in Christ.  If you had a friend or acquaintance that was going to start attending a church that you knew did not teach the truth, would you tell them, “Ya, go ahead and got the false church.”  Or would you warn them and say no go to this other church instead?

If someone was directing you down a wrong path would you know it?  Would you want to know they were leading you the wrong way?  Christ talks about two paths, you know.

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there

resulted condemnation to all men, even so

through one act of righteousness there resulted

justification of life to all men.

 

What a God! What a Plan!

 

Isaiah 53:11 ... God’s righteous Servant shall justify many (not all) and bear their iniquities

Romans 5:15 ... The gift by the grace of Jesus Christ abounded to many (not all)

Romans 5:17 ... Those (many, not all) who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness 

Romans 5:19 ... By one Man’s obedience many (not all) will be made righteous 

 

What a God! What a Plan!

Then the Holy Spirit is not in them and they are not authentic Christians if they are indwelt by demons.

1Cor. 3:16: "do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you." It is not the Holy Spirit plus a demon or demons.

The distinction you are missing [or perhaps I should say, a lot of people just don't distinguish] is between being "possessed" and just being "influenced".  Possession implies ownership, and the Christian is owned by God, bought by the blood of Christ (1 Cor 6:20).  So there is no demon possession for the Christian.  The unclean spirits can dwell in and influence the Christian though.

Jesus asked this very question (although in a negative fashion): John 6:67-69

⁶⁷ “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
⁶⁸ Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
⁶⁹ We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Seems Peter got that one spot on for all of us.

I think we need to do what Paul did with the followers of Diana of the Ephesians--preach the gospel.  They heard the message and saw the signs and wonders that confirmed the message and they left their former religion and followed Christ.  I also think we need to stop preaching the gospel to believers and preach to non-believers.  We need to go to the streets (where they are) and let them know how much He vaules them.  I also think we need to stop condemning them (that's the Holy Spirits Job, not ours), and just love them.  That's what I think we should do.

I find the "attack mode" tends to come from folks who are insecure about what they believe.  They resort to bashing others rather than zeroing in on doctrinal differences. They are afraid what they believe may have some errors .... that is tough for any human in any situation.

We need to understand that being insecure is OK and not a weakness , none of us can know the whole truth about everything  in the Bible , but if we encounter something that changes  our understanding , we should consider it , not resist it outright.

Easy for me to say that now .... but I have twisted in the wind a few times in my 25 years as a Christian , took me a while to see some of the errors of my ways , even longer to be humbled and admit I was wrong.

And it will probably happen again

Sunday evening, of a gathering of 80 believers and unbelievers, we had 18 people profess publicly, for the first time, Christ as their savior and repent of their sins! #HarvestAmerica #ComeAndSeeBibleChurch

It's good to be here! My name is John, I am 16 years old. When people ask me what I want to be when I grow up, I tell them I want to be Holy and I want this: NIV Eph 4:13 "....attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ".

May the Lord be with you all.

John

Can Seals Be Broken?

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Paul's is using an analogy of a "sealed document" back then. When you sealed a document, you sealed it with wax and it was sealed until it was delivered to the proper recipient. Paul was using an analogy of an inheritance in a legal will, which would have been properly witnessed and sealed by a representative of the Roman government.

When a document like this is received, the first thing that is observed is whether or not the seal is intact. If the seal was broken then the representative would know that some tampering occurred and the document would be considered void and the inheritance denied.

This is Paul's analogy. We must protect our covenant with God and not seek to break the seal of the Holy Spirit.

Was it possible for a Roman citizen to break the wax seal? Of course it was. This is also true of one who breaks the seal of the Holy Spirit. That is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. If you look at various verses that speak of falling away, you will see that this sin against the Holy Spirit is linked to Apostasy.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:29 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?  

This is why Paul warned us not to tamper with our seal.

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

This is a big problem with Christendom, today. A false security is being preached. Once sealed, always sealed! The Word of God does not agree nor support that. Remember, these letters are written to Followers of Christ. The Early Church did not believe OSAS.

Here are some examples:
1 Tim 1:19-20
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Paul warned Timothy to guard his faith. He stated clearly that some had abandoned their faith and shipwrecked. Then he named two acquaintances, Hymenaeus and Alexander, who became apostates by blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Did you know that the Word of God says that our faith can be overthrown?
2 Tim 2:16-18
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Hymenaeus was not content to make shipwreck of his own faith. Now, we find him teaching false doctrine [eschatology] and thereby overthrowing the faith of others. Sounds like he was teaching Preterism.

2 Tim 4:10
10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; ...  

Paul warned Timothy extensively about the lure of materialism. Apparently, many believers had quit and become entangled in the lust for money.

1 Tim 6:10
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

This brings to mind the parable of the Sower. Remember, some fell among "thorns." Jesus said the "thorns" were the cares of this world and the love of money, which after the seed has sprouted, and begun to grow, they choke the Word, and the plant dies.

These examples of Christians who's faith failed because of a love of money or power demonstrate that the warnings in Scripture about falling away are real.

Here is a conditional promise. Can you tell me what the condition is?

Rom 11:20-22
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

That little word "IF", makes a big difference, doesn't it?

Can you point out the condition in this verse?
1 Cor 15:1-2
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

There's that pesky little word "IF", again.
(Looks like their salvation is linked to perseverance. Kind of like, "he that endures to the end will be saved. Matt 24).

Col 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel,which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Again, we find this in the Scriptures. Another conditional statement. That little word "IF" messes things up again!!

Heb 3:12-14
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

"IF", once again. There are many of these in the Scriptures. You may want to look them up.

So, I don't know how you explain Scriptures like these away. I'm sure there is an "explanation" somewhere. But it looks like UNBELIEF will surely ruin us. It is afterall, the opposite of FAITH. But what this passage reveals, is that it can happen to a Believer. A hard heart leads to unbelief and unbelief leads to departing from God.

We will be made partakers with Christ IF we hold our initial confidence [or faith] until the end.

Heb 2:1-3
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

I'm really surprised that people do not see these conditional statements in the Scriptures. But, I think the man-made doctrines have blinded them and made these scriptures of "no effect".

"Neglect" is treating something that is precious, casually. It is carelessness. Unfortunately, this is the state of many Christians today. Yet, they think they are in no danger. That is because a false Gospel of false security is being preached and the reason why you cannot tell the difference between the world and the church, today.

James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; (Who are the brethren that James is talking to?)
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The only death that does not hide a multitude of sins is eternal death, not physical death. Because after physical death, we will all be judged.

Of course people think up all manner of explanations why people fall away. The main one is that they were never saved to begin with. That does not cohere with the preponderance of scriptures. What I have outlined for you does agree with the preponderance of Scripture and experience. Too many of us have known born-again people who have departed from the faith. If your man-made doctrine says that cannot happen, then it is convenient to say, "they were never born-again".

Axehead

He has the Scriptural authority to remind them that gossip and rumor mongering is sinful and should not be done by Believers.  However, he does not have authority to call down judgement from God upon those who break that breech of trust shown in the midst of fellow believers.

Hi elysian!

No scripture is that important, God isn't contained in a book. Scripture is just a good guide, nothing more. Don't let's create an idol out of it. Conscience is the one and infallible guide. People who value the bible more than conscience are religious fanatics, no different from Islamic jihadis/terrorists.

Scripture is very important for a believer, you are incorrect...the bible says:

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Jesus himself also said in Luke 11
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

John 8:51
Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

John 17:14
I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

John 17:17
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Colossians 1
4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4
4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Titus 1:9
holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

Hebrews 4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


1 Peter 1
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

1 Peter 2:2
as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,

1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

Revelation 3:8
“I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

Revelation 19
1 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Shalom!!!

THE HOLY SPIRIT

Attributes: Who Is He?

He possesses omniscience (1 Cor. 2:11,12)
He possess omnipresence (Ps. 139:7)
He possesses omnipotence (Job 33:4)

He is Truth (1 John 5:6)

He gives life (Luke 11:13)

He possesses creative wisdom (Is. 40:13)
He possesses all the attributes of deity: He is God (Acts 5:3,4)


Record: What He Has Done

In the Old Testament:

He was active at creation (Gen. 1:2)
He was the bestower of supernatural giftedness (Gen. 31:38)
He was the giver of creativity (Ex. 31:2-5)
He was the source of power (Judg. 3:9, 10)
He inspired prophecy (1 Sam. 19:20, 23)
He was the mediator of God's message (Mic. 3:8)

In the New Testament:

He was part of the Incarnation (Luke 1:35)
He declared the truth about Christ (John 16:13,14)
He endowed believers with power for witnessing (Acts 1:8)
He poured out God's love (Rom. 5:5)
He interceded (Rom. 8:26)

He was the inspiration for the writing of the Holy Scripture (2 Tim.3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21)
He distributed giftedness for ministry (1 Cor.12:4-11)
He empowered believers with characteristics for godly living (Gal. 5:22, 23)
He Strengthened believers within (Eph. 3:16)


Work: What He Will Do

He will guide the believer (Acts 8:29 ; Rom. 8:14)
He will give assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:14-17)
He will be the believer's teacher (1 John 2:27)
He will intercede (Rom. 8:26)
He will comfort (John 14:16)
He will sanctify (2 Thes. 2:13)
He will accomplish regeneration (John 3:6)
He will make you aware of sin (John 16:8)
He will convince you of the truth of the gospel (John 16:8, 13, 14)
He will empower you to witness (Acts 1:8;4:31)
He will destroy the power of sin in your life (Rom. 8:2-6)
He will lead and even control your life (Rom. 8:14;Gal. 5:16, 25)
He will distribuite gifts to be used in the kingdom (1 Cor. 12:14-11


The Holy Spirit was promised as a gift to believers, part of His ministry is to seal believers at the moment they place saving faith in Christ. The term "seal" includes certain truths: He is a provision of security, a mark of ownership,  and a sign of approval. Indeed, the Holy Spirit's presence in believers' lives is the final evidence, both to themselves and to others, of the truth of what each has believed. Further, He is the down payment, providing both a foretaste of the believer's spiritual inheritance and a legal claim to the fullness of that inheritance in the future.

It is sad that our words, or lack of clarity, sometimes let us down… I did not understand that this was your point of view.

The end-time markers you mention are a very good example, and it is clear that the Laodicean Church cannot be the only church in a string of “church ages”. Christ mentioned that the churches would exist at the time of His return…

To the Church of Pergamos: “Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.” Pergamos exists when Christ comes with the sword of His mouth…

To the Church of Thyatira: “And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end…” Thyatira exists at “the end.”

To the Church of Sardis: “If therefore you shall not watch, I will come on you as a thief, and you shall not know what hour I will come on you.”  Sardis exists at the end when Christ comes as a thief…

To the Church of Philadelphia: “I also will keep you from the hour of temptation, which shall come on all the world.”  Philadelphia exists at the end at the hour of temptation…

All of the above churches exist at the end-time. The Laodicean church is commonly believed to exist too… so all of the churches are a picture of the end-time churches; not just the Laodicean church. All of the seven churches demonstrate different beliefs and influences, just as the churches today do. The message of repentance is prophetic to the churches today, because all of the churches today are in need of repentance; from error, from immorality, from worldliness, from political involvement, from covert agendas, from divisions, from commercialism, from Jezebel… Those who belong to a particular church and who believe that only their church is correct will strongly oppose what I am saying. They will probably want to dispute also with Jesus when He comes... We are all in the same boat. We all need to repent!

God Bless
Steve

Yes. But that's still not quite reaching the point of why Christ had no rebuke for the two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. We cannot arbitrarily assign Christ's rebuke for the other five to those two.

I agree with this theory too (mostly). I don’t think the Seven Churches are a countdown, from the Apostles to now, but a development…

The Catholic Church was the first institutional development, and the Catholic Church is still here in the last days (I believe the first church, Ephesus, to be the Catholics). Even if you accept Rockytopva’s “church ages” theory…, the Catholics, the church of Thyatira, are still here, so then that church (Thyatira) still exists today. Sardis, too, is the Protestant (according to his church age theory). The Protestants still exist today, so the church of Sardis must still exist today too. The church of Philadelphia and Laodicea are the same…

The real facts of Christ's Church as early developing institutions was not with the Catholic system, but with the Church at Jerusalem and the Churches in Asia Minor. Antioch is where believers on Christ Jesus first began to call themselves Christian, not Rome.

Even the Culdee Church in ancient Britian existed prior to the Cathlolic Church in Rome. Some of the early councils by the Roman Church admitted the antiquity of Christ's first century Church in Britain.

While Apostle Paul was captive at Rome and preaching The Gospel, a senator from Rome assigned in Britain brought his wife Claudia to Rome (daughter of Gladys, a Celtic princess). She was a Christian from Britain, kin to the royal family in Britain, and that while Rome was still pagan. His name was Rufus Pudens (Rufus Pudens Pudentia per Latin historians), and their relation named Linus later became the first Bishop of Rome. The Romans brought also the king of the Bretons captive to Rome earlier, and built a palace for them to live in (Plautium Britannicum).

2 Tim 4:21
21    Do thy diligence to come before winter. Eubulus greeteth thee, and Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brethren.
(KJV)