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#245142 Persecution of Christians

Posted by Shirley on 03 March 2015 - 07:56 PM

Freedom of Religion is what a democracy is all about.  We are free to have no Religion.  It is good because Jesus never forced anyone!!!!!!!

     Father in Heaven, Please protect the Christians Please Strengthen them.   Please protect the Muslims that are being killed in the name of Religion,  please let the soldiers of ISIS see the error of their ways!  You know what is best.  May your will be done but please don't have us send the best of our young men to be slaughtered!   In Jesus name I pray for your will for the whole world!!!!!

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#151369 What About the Rapture?

Posted by HammerStone on 22 May 2012 - 05:42 PM

What about the Rapture?
When you hear the term rapture, what exactly comes to mind? Chances are you either picture images of total chaos, destruction and death or you just became a little bit nervous and possibly even completely uncomfortable. You don’t have to look any further than cable television and Hollywood to see that we are obsessed when it comes to our fate and the end of the world.

There are a million different ways that humanity will supposedly be extinguished and theories and predictions are not just limited to the religious groups of the world.
Unfortunately, popular opinions pretty much took over the discussion, and we are left with total confusion. A large portion of the Christian sphere led this charge and cashed in on the craze as much as Hollywood.

Instead of shying away from the reality that Jesus will one day return, why don’t we simply trash the opinions and popular culture mythology and look at what the Bible has to say? Let’s start right now with a prayer for wisdom, patience, and a little bit of understanding when it comes to the return of Jesus.
Before I dive into the Bible, let’s clear something up. I’m not a fan of the term rapture. As many correctly note, the word is not in the Bible. This is mostly true because this word is Latin and it was used in place of the Greek word harpazo. It literally means to be caught up. About a century or more ago, this word meant to be totally caught up in something like music. A modern equivalent might be what we mean when we say that he or she “got lost” in the music. Unfortunately, this was a term which evolved from meaning a general caching away to a very specific catching away at a very specific time.

Rapture came to be shorthand for Pre-Tribulational Rapture. It’s a big-boy-word term that means we are taken away before the trouble starts (tribulation = big trouble). As the Rapture grew in prominence and became more evil, the assurance that we would escape it seemed to become stronger. But again, what does the Bible actually say?

Matthew 16:17 ESV And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
This verse is crucial to the understanding of all books in the Bible, but this seems to be forgotten when it comes to books dealing with the end of the world like Ezekiel, Daniel, Thessalonians and Revelation. One thing that needs to get hammered into your head is this is all about Jesus and not about time, places, or battles.

Brief [Pre-Tribulational] Rapture History
It is history lesson time. The Rapture hit new levels of popularity in late 19th century America. It was based on teachings by a man named John Darby. Another man, William Eugene Blackstone, took the idea even further and further popularized the idea. You can do a search to read more on these men, but I wanted to include their names. Eventually this would lead to a Bible called the Scofield Reference Bible which you can still purchase to this day. However, if we back up to Darby, we will find that another minister by the name of Edward Irving influenced Mr. Darby – Irving himself took the idea from a young sickly woman named Margaret Macdonald. Miss Macdonald lay sick on her bed as she claimed the revelation of new prophecy regarding two returns of Jesus. The reality is this event is not openly discussed by any scholar, historian, or early Christians.

The Return of Jesus in the Bible
Now we come to the important part. The Bible has many references to what will happen when Jesus returns to the earth. You may hear this term called the second advent from time to time, and advent is simply another word for coming. Rapture pundits love this verse:

I Thessalonians 4:16 ESV For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Rapture believers talk about a moment when good Christians simply (and randomly) disappear. One popular film portrays planes without pilots and all manner of sudden chaos. How about we take a quick step back and look at the verse, though? Notice how the trumpet of God is played, and trumpets just aren’t very quiet instruments. In addition to this not-so-quiet appearance, there is only a one-time appearance between Jesus appearing and the dead in Christi raising.

I Thessalonians 4:17 ESV Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Not too complicated here, is it? See, the English word “then” indicates that whatever is stated after “then” takes place after whatever comes before “then.” The Lord (Jesus) returns, the dead rise first, and then living Christians will be caught up with Jesus.

Paul, the guy who wrote the first letter we like to call I Thessalonians, actually ended up writing another letter we originally called II Thessalonians. The great irony is that Paul wrote the second letter to clarify the first letter because the Thessalonians had trouble with their end time views:

II Thessalonians 2:1-15 ESV Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

The emphasis in the passage is mine. Verse three says don’t let any man deceive you. You will see that there is a very strong focus on deception. Keep in mind that Paul wrote this letter to early Christians.

The English Standard Version (ESV) Bible does a great job of rendering the word rebellion. This rebellion comes first – that is to say clearly that it comes prior to the return of Jesus. Now I realize there have been a number of rebellions in history and this term might seem vague. However, if you look at the Strong’s Concordance, the word means defection from the truth, as in a revolt or rebellion. This is not a generic verse about nonChristians rebelling against God. In order to rebel, you have to be subject to what you are rebelling against.

I stop short of saying that Christians will knowingly and willingly rebel against God, but the warnings about deception indicate that those involved can fool Christians. The involved people or groups at least appear to be Christian in nature.

The next clue in the passage comes in II Thessalonians 2:3. The son of destruction/man of lawlessness is important. The Greek for this term is apoleia (Strong’s #G0684) and it means ruin or loss. Many theories abound on this person, but a common view is that this person is Judas. This view was merely created to make the Rapture theory work. This man is Satan, and in other passages in the Bible, Satan was condemned to death. Unlike us, he has nowhere to go and no way to repent.

While Satan’s condemnation is another study for another time, II Thessalonians 2:9-11 cannot be overlooked. Fortunately, the ESV is almost crystal clear at this point. The person will operate with all of the power of Satan – meaning he can perform miracles and appears quite powerful. Does that sound like anyone else you might have heard about? (Hint: Use the Sunday school answer. It’s Jesus.) Jesus is described as having power and performing miracles. Might this tie into the deception? Does the plot thicken when I mention that all major religions of the world have some form of savior that performs miracles and saves the world?

Matthew 24:3-14 ESV As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Please read all of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. One of the clear messages of this passage (and the others) is that there will be deception going down all over the place. The passage says that the one who endures to the end (Matthew 24:13) will be saved. We are in it for the long haul – there’s simply no room for an early rapture exit.
Matthew 24:15 talks about the abomination of desolation in the Old Testament. I won’t jump into Daniel here, but you can find the reference in Daniel 12:11. If you link this passage with II Thessalonians 2:4 – it becomes obvious who the abomination is at this time. This guy claims that he is God. Sound familiar at all? If your answer is Satan – ding, ding, we have a winner!

So many people are focused on a physical rebuilding of the temple you read about in the Bible, but the passage in II Thessalonians 2:4 uses an interesting word for temple. The word is Greek naos (Strong’s #G3485). The word certainly means temple, but I’ll let you read for yourself as to what temple it might refer to:

I Corinthians 6:19 ESV Or do you not know that your body is a temple [naos] of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own…

Ephesians 2:20-21 ESV …built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple [naos] in the Lord.

Temple doesn’t always mean just a building. However, if a false Christ – an anti-Christ – shows up and sets himself up as god in the hearts and minds of the world the danger is obvious and the reports of deception make sense.

Matthew 24:26-28 ESV So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
We are presented with more warnings about deception. If someone shows up as Jesus here or there and makes the claim – don’t follow them. The last phrase is always treated as some sort of enigma or riddle even. However, it simply means that where there is death, then vultures will gather. Think of it this way where people do not understand Jesus, there is spiritual death and so those who look to benefit from death (like vultures that consume dead meat) will show up to take advantage.
But that’s enough sadness, because look at the finish:

Matthew 24:39-47 ESV and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
Just before this, in Matthew 24:30-31 it talks about a trumpet blowing. The sound of the trumpet will herald the return of Jesus for his people. This passage affirms that his people will not be found sitting around waiting on the master to return. Instead, the good servants will be found to be working and not simply waiting to be taken away.
Rapture believers take this verse and say you want to be taken – but the ones taken are not taken by Jesus. Jesus desires to return and find his servants doing the work of a Christian. We are to be on guard for deception – in the days of the Bible it was not uncommon for servants to be snatched in a raid on the master’s household. You simply don’t want to be the servant that got fooled and left the field of work.

There are many other verses in the Bible that help clear things up, but this study is already long. Let’s wrap up with one final Rapture believer favorite:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 ESV Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

“Behold!” is the old-school way of saying pay attention here. Note the word last right before trumpet and let the previous passages put that in perspective for you. There is no Rapture in the Pre-Tribulational sense of the word. I’ll let Scripture close out and confirm this argument:

Revelation 8:1-13 ESV When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.
Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.
The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter.
The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night.
Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”

Revelation 9:1-3 ESV And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.

Revelation 9:20-21 ESV The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 10:1-11 ESV Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, and called out with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. When he called out, the seven thunders sounded. And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.” And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.
Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me again, saying, “Go, take the scroll that is open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.” So I went to the angel and told him to give me the little scroll. And he said to me, “Take and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.” And I took the little scroll from the hand of the angel and ate it. It was sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it my stomach was made bitter. And I was told, “You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings.”

I realize that was a good bit of material – but do you see that there are seven trumpets in Revelation? Do you also see how at the seventh how the mystery of God is finished? Recall the earlier passages once again and see how they agree with the seventh trumpet here. It is a really awesome time of joy and peace at the end of a rough and trying period.

In closing, I simply want to point out that I did not cover the majority of verses on the subject. Verses were selected which are often misused or misquoted in popular mythology. However, if applied with other Bible verses – suddenly all of the imagery from these supposedly difficult to understand books make more sense.

Take this to God, but examine the passages that I pointed out (as well as other passages) and talk to Him about it. Even if you walk away from this lesson with a still solid belief in the Rapture, please do one thing for yourself. Simply know the signs and know the Bible when it talks about these things.

God Bless!

Study by: Denver, http://www.christianityboard.com/
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Posted by Mellerd on 05 August 2013 - 11:18 AM

I would say that at least half of the refugees whom we work with are Muslim. They come from all over Africa, Burma, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Muslims have become a huge part of our life. We love Muslims. They are some of the most hospitable and generous people that I have ever met. I know many Americans simply just do not understand them because most Americans are not in relationship with Muslims. And after 9/11, I am sure Americans are a little weary of them. I understand this, but we should still try to make more of an effort to befriend Muslims.


In the media, you are only seeing a fraction of the Muslim population in this world. You are only hearing the bad stories about Muslims. But most are like you and me; just people trying to take care of their families and make it through life. And just like in our culture, there are some people who do really bad things. Turning on our local news could make you fear walking out the door in Dallas. Am I right? Don’t get sucked in by the media. Create your own perception of the world by engaging in it and with people. Do we have the right to judge a world or people we do not truly know?

Our experience is very different from what you see in the media. They treat us with great respect. Again, they are so generous and hospitable. If you go to their home, you will be treated as an honored guest.


Muslims love to talk about spiritual things. They don’t separate the spiritual and the practical like many of us do; I know I do sometimes. So, they are very open to spiritual conversations. I know most people think it is difficult to talk with Muslims about God, but that’s just not the case. They love to talk about God. God is the most important thing to most of them.

When we talk about Jesus, they do not kick us out. When we offer prayer, they never reject it. In fact, some Muslim families heard about how our team prayed over a family who had been in an accident. Next thing you know, all those Muslim families are calling our team and asking us to pray for them. When someone got sick and went to the hospital, who did they call? Us! Followers of Jesus. So let’s not be afraid of Muslims. They are open. They want our friendship and our love just like anyone else. These are beautiful people and God loves them so much. I think that is the most important thing. We should love who God loves!


One of the best parts of being friends with Muslims is the food! I added some pics of the food. Also, I should explain the pics below because some people might start to get a little worried about me:) Muslims love to teach you about their culture. They may even dress you up like a Muslim. They may even dress your baby up as a Muslim too!

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#146302 Do You Pray And Sing In Tongues ?

Posted by Shep on 17 March 2012 - 07:39 PM

It is amazing that a little georgia redneck came to Australia and found a church filled with the Spirit of God and all of a sudden started to praying in tongues....mercy...Some are just scared of what they don't understand...Since when has God changed? Since when did tongues and other gifts stop? At Pentacost? mercy people read the Word and see that is when they started...I was taught in the good ole Baptist church that tongues were of the devil....Mercy come visit me and see God at Work...Truthseeker...you live in Sydney right? I live on the Central Coast...Come visit me and then tell me I am speaking for mr darkness...I dare ya to arrange to spend one day with me in the presence of God in my outreach ministry....Come on...spend a day with me or I can arrange for you to spend a day right there in Sydney with a ministry that will blow your socks off...talk about God supporting this ministry with a 10 million dollar ministry yearly and only giving them change to work with..and they pray in tongues and are a Jewish...Who do you think supplies the things to do His work...you ...me...church...Mercy...I received 7 thousand last year to run on...I gave out 1.3 million dollars worth of things...do you think satan can do that...he can only imitate..he can't give tongues to God's children...he sure does like to make others think they are from him so as to stop you from finding the voice needed to do battle in the spirit world....satan loves to make people think that if they speak in tongues they are speaking for him...LOL...Read the Word of God...Find the TRUTH..ask God...He will show you the Truth....
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#145906 Do You Pray And Sing In Tongues ?

Posted by Foreigner on 12 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

Talk about someone needing to "humbly admit their error and repent." ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

You are trying to make a complete claim with but a fraction of the information.

You are not qualified to say that 100% of the tongues spoken in Pentacostal churches is false.

The Bible says nothing of the sort.

I cannot begin to share with you just what you are missing out on. How wonderfully it has impacted my relationship with Jesus.

Sadly, a closed mind can only be opened from the inside.
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#253571 Belief Systems or JESUS?

Posted by Axehead on 19 June 2015 - 06:23 AM

Christianity appeals to all nations, races and creeds, but you have made it so ecclesiastical that it appeals to nobody. -Rabindranath Tagore
The story is told that when Ghatama Buddha was dying ... some of his disciples asked how they could best remember him. He told them not to bother; that it was his teaching, not his person, that mattered. Such is the basis of religion — ideological, philosophical, educative belief-systems. Such is not the case with Jesus Christ and Christianity. Everything centers in Him. Everything is inherent in Jesus, His Person and His continuing activity. Everything functions only by the dynamic of the risen and living Lord Jesus Christ. - James A. Fowler
People are battling each other with their belief systems as a weapon. Most Christianity that one sees today is dedication to a system of rules or of thought. But Christianity, in the Early Church was a dedication to a Person. 
Christians should be loyal to a Person, not a doctrine and love all men as Jesus and the Apostles did. We are not called to brawl in debates or at worst defend Christ with the spilling of blood and terrorism. How very confused is the one that believes Jesus Christ needs to be defended. 
The New Testament Church did not go around saying, "We have a brand new religion that is better than anything that ever was. We have teachings and doctrine that can win any debate. We have morality and ethics that are far superior than anything known." No, they went forth preaching the Good News that Jesus Christ is risen. He is ALIVE!! And He will forgive you of your sins and change your heart, filling you with His holy Spirit to love all men as He did.  
Mark_11:26  But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. 
1Jn_4:11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

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#243462 Where I have been.....

Posted by Born_Again on 18 January 2015 - 07:57 AM

Hello brothers and sisters in Christ..


Well, some of you may recall I was in great tribulation. I came to the point where the Lord told me it was going to be the hardest time. And it was not only the hardest but it was the darkest. And, I'll tell ya, it takes a mountain of faith to not doubt during these times. But I hung in there even when my world was falling down around me. Everything caved in on me around Christmas. This is about where I disappeared from Cyb. I was faced with a lot of emotions and decisions. I was getting sick from not eating, I lost 10 pounds in about two weeks, maybe less. It seemed the harder I fought to trust God, the harder the enemy tried to invade my heart. I shut myself in the dark and away from everyone. But I never lost faith.....


The Lord sent a couple of people to me that were very godly and helped pick me back up. I soon realized what I needed to do. I took an entire week to myself and spent it with God. Long story short, by the end of the week I was eating regularly, laughing, and letting the light in. The best part was, I was able to forgive, both myself, and those who had hurt me. I even called them and told them I had moved past and I forgive.


The story is really more detailed but the short is, God will carry you!!  Things are so wonderful for me and my kids now and God kept His promise and I am better now than I was before the trial!!!! Praise Him!!!


I would also like to thank all of you for your prayers at the start of this whole mess. God heard you all and led me where His will was.



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#219003 Does God Hate?

Posted by Poppin on 01 February 2014 - 06:36 AM


I have trouble with this scripture and not to doubt God's Word would like some insight into why this scripture was written and if God truly does hate, prior to one even being born.  Does He hate all sinners that He does not approve or disapprove prior to conception or birth?


Romans 9:13 (KJV)
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Hi BornAgain.

It might be that the sentiment has been translated incorrectly. Context determies the use of 


miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I hate, detest
Definition: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

3404 miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.


Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple" (NASU).

[Note the comparative meaning of 3404 (miséō) which centers in moral choice, elevating one value over another.]


I don't believe Jesus commanded us to break the Law here " - “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you."...rather some translations have chosen the wrong use of miseó (but I may be wrong) - you decide.


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#216762 i am worried

Posted by HammerStone on 13 January 2014 - 07:37 AM

You see this in the worship wars and other such battles within the church as well.


There are some very clear delineations where a believer must draw the line when self-pronounced Christians begin to teaching doctrines that question major tenets of Christianity such as the deity of Christ or another core issue. However, many of the battles are fought over what I call open-handed issues. This is just another way of saying that the issues are not central to salvation. Christians will shoot their own more quickly than almost any other group of people!


For instance, it's okay that I worship one way or another. As long as God remains the subject of worship, regardless of medium, then I am worshipping God. However, I see threads, blogs, and conversations devolve into knock-down-drag-outs over this topic.


There are a number of warnings in Scripture about going down the rabbit hole of personal interpretation, preference and itching ears. We do well to heed those and pick the hills to die on.

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#210676 Can you tell who is holy?

Posted by BiggAndyy on 12 October 2013 - 07:03 PM

Are YOU Holy?

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#177720 A petition to allow access to other sections of the forum.

Posted by InquisitiveAgnostic on 15 December 2012 - 07:42 AM

I think a suitable condition for non-believers to be allowed to post on other sections of the board could be as simple as having 100 or 200 posts on the forum without displaying harmful or combative intent. Then they would be elligable for approval.


This would ensure that idle trolls or people who only have negative things to say would either have to log WAY too many hours and/or prove their malicious intent before reaching the goal number.


I know I'm not even close to there yet, but I see it as a fair possibility that I would have no problem working towards.

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#161517 Sinless Perfection?

Posted by Hepzibah on 14 August 2012 - 11:19 AM

I see it as a salvation issue.

A Christian and a sinner are incompatible. However, a believer that is, one who has come to Christ for forgiveness, will still commit sins until he is given revelation by God that it is not acceptable and he is not in the ark of safety unless he is saved from sin - this is the reason Christ died for us. Until he has been brought to that point, which is any time after he comes to Christ, and can be immediately after as we see by the thief on the cross, and given the full revelation and knowledge of the full salvation Christ gained for us, he will claim that he is positionally holy and acceptable. He is fooling himself. The day the Lord shows him this truth, he is undone and has come tot he end of himself and cries out with Paul - oh wretched man.

This allows Christ to carry out His full work in the man and he is delivered from the sin nature. Sadly this is not happening too much today. We are in dark times indeed when most oppose this most holy truth.
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#141189 Ten Reasons Why Most Believers Don't Seriously Question Their Faith

Posted by BiggAndyy on 23 January 2012 - 08:35 AM

The line of thinking of the author is flawed on several fronts. One, it makes the rather absurd assumption that all Christians do not question their faith. But even more to the point, the author presupposes himself to the sole arbitor of what makes a question a "serious question" or a non-serious question. He actually wonders why no Christian thinks about Christianity they way he does, because, obviously, there is no other way to think about Christianity apart from adopting his formula of "serious questioning".

Everything else that followed was merely crass skepticism, the lowest of the lowest forms of thought rather uninspiringly masquarading as critical examination.

To paraphrase the above, "The author is a tool."
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#110202 Another fact about salvation that people should be very fearful about is...

Posted by Joshua David on 09 May 2011 - 07:23 AM

Haha, the reason why i typed in large fonts is because i am afraid people would miss reading things i added later on. Because this forum does not allow us to edit our posts. So i am afraid if someone just read my first post then did not read things i added later then i might mislead them into just knowing half of what i wrote.


I have a question, in your opinion, what does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the Day of redemption? ( Eph 4:30)

second question.. What are you trusting in for your Salvation? Are you trusting in the free gift of Jesus Christ's sacrificial work on the cross, or once being made clean by the cross, you are trusting in your own ability not to sin?

Joshua David

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#101581 Why do you guys fight on here? and I have a proposal for you...

Posted by tomwebster on 20 February 2011 - 11:01 PM

Hi, I am a 23 year old newbie to this forum. I am a follower of Christ and would love to grow in his word here. However, everywhere I look I find where people are doing nothing but arguing with one another. Don't we want to bring people to Christ? Don't people already NOT want to go to church because they feel like they will be judged and that Christians are nothing but a bunch of fakers that argue all the time? I know this isn't technically a church but I would say this is a place for people to worship and grow in his word. As far as people who come to this forum that are not Christians, they probably laugh and say to themselves "I'm right about those Christians". I'm not trying to say that Christians are perfect... all Christians are FAR from perfect, but shouldn't this forum be about bringing people to Christ rather than arguing all the time? To be honest I don't see how this forum can go on if people do nothing but argue...

Just think about how many people we could bring to Christ if we were focused on reaching the unreached instead of arguing with one another. I have to tell you it's not about YOU or ME... It's about Jesus... the one who died for us. So... why don't we come together as a community on this forum and come up with some ideas to put aside our differences and reach people? Think about how many people come by this forum daily... It could change their LIFE AND the WORLD we could be apart of God's wonderful work!

So what do you say Christianity Board? Would you like to put the arguing to the side and come together to make this a place of worship and reaching the lost? Or would you rather this place continue to be a place where the lost say they are right about Christians?

Findinghispath, you have had three members answer your post, which one told you the truth? Maybe it doesn’t matter to you, maybe it does. Maybe you don’t know. Your id here is about a path, are you looking for just any path or would you prefer the correct path? I don’t know anything about you but you seem to be interested in helping people come to faith in Christ. If you had a friend or acquaintance that was going to start attending a church that you knew did not teach the truth, would you tell them, “Ya, go ahead and got the false church.” Or would you warn them and say no go to this other church instead?

If someone was directing you down a wrong path would you know it? Would you want to know they were leading you the wrong way? Christ talks about two paths, you know.

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#92841 All Things

Posted by bigape on 03 December 2010 - 04:22 PM

phil.4,13 paul maid this statement. He was a exsample to the jews and gentiles romans 8,32 -[1cor3,21]

Three great passages.
Philippians 4:13
“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”

Here it helps to look at the two previous verses........
Philippians 4:11-12
V.11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, [therewith] to be content.
V.12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

When V.13 says that “I can”(we as Christians can), do all things, it’s talking about “enduring all things”.
If a Christian totally commits their life to Christ and His Word, he will grow in the Spirit, to a point where he will be able to endure anything, and stay walking close to the Lord.

If tomorrow they lose all of their money: Some people might feel like giving up, but a Spiritually strong Christian will say “big deal, I still have Christ”
Or if tomorrow, you are given 10 million dollars: Some people would go off the deep end and destroy their lives with excess and sin, while a Spiritually strong Christian would say “praise the Lord”: “Lord what do you want me to do with your money?”
Romans 8:32
“He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?”

This is telling us, that if you are a Christian, than the Lord will make sure that you always have everything you need........
Matthew 6:31-33
V.31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
V.32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
V.33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Along with salvation, God gives us all the things that we need in life for contentment and happiness.
Although if we are not committed to Christ, and are seeing this world through the eyes of the flesh, instead of the eyes of faith, we will not be happy or content.
(Satan will make sure of that.)

But if we trust our lives, in the Lord’s hands, he will always take care of us.
1 Peter 5:6-7
V.6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
V.7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

1 Corinthians 3:21
“Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;”

This is talking about Spiritual understanding.
Don’t glory in the words of any man:(Don’t base your life on what some man says about the Bible or the Lord, but study the Word for yourself, to get the truth:)!

I have often told Christians, that if they are reading a Bible commentary, to not be surprised if they come to a part or section where their interpretation disagrees with that of the commentator’s.
Every Christian has the Holy Spirit, therefore if we take the time to study the Bible, we might learn things that even great Spiritual men of the past may have missed.......
Proverbs 25:2
“[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.”

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#257222 Walking away from forums

Posted by heretoeternity on 14 August 2015 - 07:52 PM

Seems you folks are a bit arrogant....the forums should be considered a learning experience, getting another persons' opinion, and quotes from the Bible, and conveying your own opinion..it is not about winning or losing, it is about sharing knowledge and information, especially about the Bible.

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#206449 Defining Social Justice

Posted by This Vale Of Tears on 11 August 2013 - 07:27 PM

Syndicated conservative talk show host Glenn Beck offers this advice:  "If you hear the term 'social justice' in your church then RUN!"


When did social justice become political?


I hear a lot of differing definitions on social justice and many of them involve enlisting social policy to meet the needs of the poor.  Program after program is created from welfare to food stamps, to housing assistance and this is deemed social justice.




I don't try to conceal the fact that I think the liberal notion of social justice is an infectious cancer in the Catholic Church and when people think of social justice as a religious principle, they think of the Catholic Church and how many Catholics defining social justice seem to be spouting off bullet points from the Democrat platform.  We know that Jesus is neither a Republican or a Democrat, but many insist that he still rides donkeys today, Democrat donkeys.




So what is social justice?  It's a concept lifted right from the pages of scripture. The Good Samaritan parable is a prime example of social justice.  The Samaritan didn't wait for a government program, didn't reach into the pockets of others, and didn't put on a conspicuous public display of how compassionate he was.  He carried the man to a hospital, reached into his own pocket to cover the expenses for his care, and promised to cover any additional expenses.


Real social justice seats the responsibility to care for our fellow man squarely on us.  You don't achieve social justice by voting for a politician who promises another program at taxpayer expense.  You get no points in heaven for dragooning your fellow citizens into helping the poor, nor does the wealth purloined from taxpayers for various social programs achieve social justice.  Now in saying this, I also have to say that social justice doesn't necessarily exclude the involvement of government because I believe that government is the best venue to address chronic need such as permanent disability, etc.  But government programs are not social justice.


So let's stop passing to others a responsibility that belongs only to us.

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#142853 The Seven Churches

Posted by veteran on 05 February 2012 - 05:18 PM

Back to the main topic of this thread, the seven Churches of Asia per Revelation.

Will this thread ever get to the point of addressing Christ's Messages to the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, in contrast to His Messages to the other five Churches?


Please consider a problem created by treating the seven Churches as 'Church Ages'. If that's how our Lord meant it, then His Messages to all Churches except Laodicia would no longer apply for today. That would mean what for the seven candlesticks in Heaven which John was given to see?

Another problem created by that is how Christ's Messages also include time markers for His second coming. (I'll exclude the part of His Messages to many of them about the idea of overcoming in Him to receive His reward, but will point out specific time markers He gave to some of the Churches that point directly to their days and then all the way up to the time of His return...)

To the Church at Pergamos -

Rev 2:16-17
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Both of those above verses are time markers for Christ's future second coming.

To the Church at Thyatira -

Rev 2:23-28
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He Which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.

Hold fast till He comes? Keep His works unto the end? Those are direct statements by our Lord Jesus about His future second coming, and admonition to remain doing His work till the end of this present world.

To the Church at Sardis -

Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Apostles Paul and Peter linked the time of Christ's return with that "as a theif" metaphor with the "day of the Lord" events. Our Lord Jesus also used that "as a thief" time marker for His return just prior to the 7th Vial of Rev.16.

To the Church at Philadelphia -

Rev 3:10-11
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

That hour of temptation is a time marker for the tribulation He warned of for the last generation per Matt.24 and Mark 13. Christ mentions His coming within that, even though that generation at Smyrna in John's days is already over.

So how are those items our Lord Jesus mentioned there not about end time events for the last generation? That's the problem the Church Ages theory creates, suggesting that we pay special attention to what was happenning in the last Message to the Church at Laodiceia.
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#112202 Prayer Your Atomic Weapon in Spiritual Warfare!

Posted by Miss Hepburn on 26 May 2011 - 08:19 AM

Spirtual Warfare 101, yes-----for years I have been aware of that devil or devilish entity or ego or whatever it is that purposely
and deliberately wants to steathily distract me from my Goal.
It uses anything from small teeny prideful thoughts - of wanting recognition for good deeds - very sneaky indeed.
To indignation - placing my feelings in the forefront instead of looking at the other person's pain and confusion that made them say that hurtful thing in the 1st place.
Or desire - wanting some silly material thing as people are starving and need that $7 more than I need that blouse even from the Thrift Store to add to my bulging Amercan closet.
Or delusion of confusion - another ploy to take me away from the Peace of my Father's - separating me from my own inner wisdom and guidance and clarity.
Or incorrect thinking in general ---say, thinking it is more important to be lazy than walk that block to feed those stray kittens early- it can wait. And on it goes...

I mean it is endless, and I have to be a Sentry at my post 24/7.

Once you keep shooting down errant thoughts - they don't have fun with you much anymore - and the sailing in this life gets much smoother bec - you
are on automatic pilot ---a true renewing of the mind...with armor up.

:) Miss Hepburn

typos, edit
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