Recent content by CadyandZoe

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  1. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Well, okay. If that's what you believe. But you surprise me since those who put trust in free will, usually object to any sort of determinism. Did God harden them, or did they harden themselves? You can't have it both ways, so your statement is invalid. But let's return to Paul's argument in...
  2. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    I am not playing games. I am using basic reading techniques. We understand the meaning of the passage from the surrounding context. The passage depicts two groups: some hear his message and believe, while others hear his message and don't believe. Jesus identifies those who believe as those whom...
  3. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Let's put aside the fact that your position is incomprehensible for the moment and examine your take on "hardening." So, are you comfortable with the idea that God violates human freedom? Are you okay with the idea that God forecloses on a person's right to choose otherwise? Interesting...
  4. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Right. Jesus tells us what made the difference between those who believed him and those who didn't. The reason why some believed while others didn't believe is because the Father gave them to Jesus. He isn't saying that the Father gave them to Jesus because they believed. He is saying that they...
  5. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Okay. So what? The point is that God hardened their heart, which means that he made sure that they couldn't change their minds. Bottom line? God will violate human free will anytime he wishes it. And why is this a problem? Your explanation is incorrect because the potter analogy lacks an...
  6. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    If you are asking "On what basis does the Father give people to the son?", the answer is not stated. The point is, they come and stay with Jesus because the Father has given them to his son. We know from the parable of the sower and other NT passages that not all those who believe in Jesus will...
  7. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Bible students eventually realize that it doesn't work that way. Often the "plain" meaning of a text is the familiar understanding of the text rather than the meaning that the author meant to convey. We are seeking the meaning that the Biblical author intends to convey. The "he who believes" is...
  8. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    You are mistaken about me. I do care about the grammar. I simply disagree with your conclusion about why we disagree. You think our disagreement is centered on the grammar, but I think the reason for our disagreement is inattention to the literary context. What are the circumstances that attend...
  9. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    It isn't a grammar issue. But contrary to your interpretation, Jesus is not suggesting that belief is a prerequisite for eternal life. Rather, he is saying that God transforms the inner-man and belief is one of the markers that indicate a transformation of the inner-man.
  10. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    On the contrary, your arguments depend on a certain "take" on them, which is not clear from the actual text itself. The apostles promise that those who are born again will never fall away. Again, it doesn't matter why he hardened them. The fact remains, he hardened them. The only believers...
  11. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    You disagree with the verse you quoted. Jesus explicitly says that the Father gives people to the Son. The reason why someone believes in the Son, follows him and remains in him is because the Father has given that person to the son.
  12. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    The verses you quote don't necessarily rule out the order of salvation that I have proposed. They can be read either way. Consider Romans 11, where Paul identifies the reason why some in Israel were not coming to belief in Jesus and receiving the blessing of God. Romans 11:7-8 What then...
  13. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Yes, and the reason they believe after hearing the gospel is because God has given them his Spirit. Indwelling Spirit comes first. As it says in Deuteronomy, God circumcises the hearts of Israel so they believe his word and obey. The sealing came first.
  14. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    Yes, it is an open invitation, but not all will come. And why not? Because they come when they are chosen by the Father to give to the son. And the essential marker of those whom he has chosen is the proper inwardness. I don't see it as disingenuous because it is a general invitation, not one...
  15. CadyandZoe

    TULIP an open discussion

    The point is that saving faith doesn't happen until God circumcises the heart, and he doesn't circumcise everyone's heart. Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not...