Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

ewq1938 said:

The beast there is the beast kingdom not a beast king. The king of the beast kingdom is the false prophet.

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20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

with "him", not with "it". The beast in that verse is the beast-king.

In Revelation 13:2, the beast having the composite make-up is the kingdom of the beast-king. Of that kingdom, the mortally wounded but healed head is the beast-king.

Phoneman777 said:

Early Church Father who had anything to say about the rise of the Man of Sin all said that the "restrainer" preventing its rise was not the "holy spirit filled church" or some other "agent of holiness" - but Pagan Rome, which when taken out of the way, opened the way for the rise of Papal Rome which went on to fulfill all the identifying marks of the Antichrist in Bible prophecy.

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Sounds like what a Pharisee would teach, and Jesus said:

"And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"

Why would Satan hold back Satan? You claim that pagan Rome, which became the apostate church held itself back.

If you really want to see apostasy and paganism, wait till the Holy Spirit and church are removed, that is holding Satan back.

It was the church that held pagan Rome back, until it faded away.

Satan is the only created being that represents the "man of sin" throughout history attempting to shape humanity into his image and likeness, away from God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Douggg said:

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

with "him", not with "it".

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That doesn't mean what you think it means because it comes from Greek not English. An it can be called a him without it denoting a person. You need to take some classes in Greek.

ewq1938 said:

That doesn't mean what you think it means because it comes from Greek not English. An it can be called a him without it denoting a person. You need to take some classes in Greek.

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A kingdom is an "it" not a person. Revelation 19:20, the "him" in that verse is referring to the person of the beast-king, not the kingdom of the beast-king.

In Revelation 16:13, the spirits seen as like frogs come out of the mouths of the beast, the false prophet, and Satan - i.e out of three persons.

Timtofly said:

Sounds like what a Pharisee would teach

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Or, maybe it's the very teaching that was circulating among the churches of that time - a time far removed from our time.

I marvel at you who claim Paul was referring to "the holy spirit" or "the holy spirit filled church" or some other "agent of holiness" as the identity of the restrainer callously dismiss the first hand testimony of those who lived and worked in the church not long after Paul's death - who all said it was Pagan Rome.

If the ECFs had written the "holy spirit filled church" was the restrainer, all of you would wear out your keyboards reminding everyone of it --- but since their testimony undermines Jesuit Futurism and supports Protestant Historicism...well, then it's "what a Pharisee would teach", right?

Protestant Historicists never have to stick their heads in the sand, but you Jesuit Futurists seem to love it as much as Anakin Skywalker hated it.

Timtofly said:

Sounds like what a Pharisee would teach

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Why are you denigrating what a Pharisee would teach? They are the pedigreed "offspring of Jacob" whom you adulate.

What they teach is irrelevant.

Because their DNA alone will get them to heaven.

Get ready to meet and greet 'em.

Douggg said:

A kingdom is an "it" not a person. Revelation 19:20, the "him" in that verse is referring to the person of the beast-king, not the kingdom of the beast-king.

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Non-persons can be referred to as "him" when translating from Greek to English. Words have genders but that doesn't make them persons. A neuter noun can be translated as "him" without the word even being in the masculine gender. That's why I said you should take some classes in Greek.

In Rev 13:1 beast/thērion is a neuter noun not masculine but it is still referred to as a him. "it" would be more accurate to our English minds but it doesn't work that way in Greek translation. Dragon/drakōn is a masculine noun and called a "him" which is more accurate to how it's done in English.

Douggg said:

In Revelation 16:13, the spirits seen as like frogs come out of the mouths of the beast, the false prophet, and Satan - i.e out of three persons.

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Only two are persons while the beast is a kingdom.

On a sidenote, it appears that the Catholic Church is going to come out and talk about UFOs
On May 17 Friday

It will be interesting what they have to say. Are they gonna claim their demons or they are real?

Stash said:

On a sidenote, it appears that the Catholic Church is going to come out and talk about UFOs
On May 17 Friday

It will be interesting what they have to say. Are they gonna claim their demons or they are real?

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They are Satan's angels, and they are coming to earth for the end.
And remember, angels have the same image of man that we have, as that is how they appeared on earth per God's Word. Even in Hebrew 13 we are told to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it.

I recall in the movie Communion, written by an author who's family had a cabin in upstate New York, and were abducted. Under hypnosis, it was revealed that he had been abducted. In the movie he later went into a alien spaceship he was invited to, and saw two types, one with big eyes, and others of little blue men. He asked them, "Who are you?", and they kept shape-shifting their appearance. He finally then said, "You're not going to show me who you really are, are you?"

That points to Satan's angels being able to appear to you as different beings, just whatever will fool you into believing they are just other species of God's creation from other solar systems.

The world has been being prepared for this, with all the Hollywood movies and reported sightings, and gov. denials, which is a type of programming of acceptance. Even the world's head atheist Dawkins, when asked who originally created us, he proposed that maybe the aliens did it, and now that's become a popular propaganda story.

When they truly appear on earth in our near future, in OUR earthly dimension, they will most likely appear with the image of men, like what God made all angels with. There is propaganda against the Revelation 12:7-12 Scripture now, which is about our near future when Satan with his angels will be booted out of Heaven down to this earth in plain sight for the end. That is what the whole world is being prepared for, the coming of Satan as the false-Messiah to Jerusalem, exalting himself in place of GOD.

Phoneman777 said:

Or, maybe it's the very teaching that was circulating among the churches of that time - a time far removed from our time.

I marvel at you who claim Paul was referring to "the holy spirit" or "the holy spirit filled church" or some other "agent of holiness" as the identity of the restrainer callously dismiss the first hand testimony of those who lived and worked in the church not long after Paul's death - who all said it was Pagan Rome.

If the ECFs had written the "holy spirit filled church" was the restrainer, all of you would wear out your keyboards reminding everyone of it --- but since their testimony undermines Jesuit Futurism and supports Protestant Historicism...well, then it's "what a Pharisee would teach", right?

Protestant Historicists never have to stick their heads in the sand, but you Jesuit Futurists seem to love it as much as Anakin Skywalker hated it.

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Since you falsely call me a Jesuit Futurist, you are still the one with the head in the sand.

The ECF were as wrong as you are.

Satan has not been able to gain any traction, because of the Holy Spirit. But you claim Satan was holding Satan back, just like the Pharisees who claimed Satan was casting out Satan.

Timtofly said:

Since you falsely call me a Jesuit Futurist, you are still the one with the head in the sand.

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If you're waiting for a future antichrist, you're a Jesuit Futurist - because every ECF expected antichrist to arise immediately after the Restrainer Pagan Rome fell - not 1,500 years after it fell.

Timtofly said:

The ECF were as wrong as you are.

Satan has not been able to gain any traction, because of the Holy Spirit. But you claim Satan was holding Satan back, just like the Pharisees who claimed Satan was casting out Satan.

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There's several reasons why it's stupid to claim the Holy Spirit if the Restrainer.

For instance, you Jesuit Futurists expect us to believe a man who never ceased to preach Christ before kings or common folk all of a sudden got cold feet and passed up an opportunity to encourage Christ's fledgling church with, "Yes, we're led like sheep to the slaughter and are killed all the day long, but lift up your heads because the Holy Spirit has His boot on the neck of the Man of Sin!"

Rather, seeing that the ECFs testify that Paul was talking about Pagan Rome as the Restrainer, it makes perfect sense to not write down "when Pagan Rome falls, the Man of Sin will arise" lest that letter fall into the hands of Roman authorities, right or wrong?

Who but those with Roman catholic sympathies could ever be pleased with the notion that Paul refused to put in his letter what he'd told the Thessalonians the last time he'd visited for any reason other than what Protestant Historicism claims?

Davy said:

When they truly appear on earth in our near future, in OUR earthly dimension, they will most likely appear with the image of men,

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We already know what image they will have:

"And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."

Phoneman777 said:

If you're waiting for a future antichrist, you're a Jesuit Futurist

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no, no one here is waiting for a future Antichrist. We are looking for Jesus.

Yes, futurists do think that there will be a forthcoming coming Antichrist, and maybe are trying to identifying that specific person. But that does not make them a "Jesuit" futurists.

The Jesuit futurists argument is just a tired old counter-reformation reaction. Instead of being burden with that pointing fingers, name calling, instead study the bible itself regarding such matters, and try to learn about what the Jews (Judaism) believe about the messiah. After all, it is the Jews who will mistakenly think for a while that the person known as the Antichrist is their long awaited King of Israel messiah.

Everyone, please try to be a little more friendly with each other, in our posts.

Phoneman777 said:

If you're waiting for a future antichrist, you're a Jesuit Futurist - because every ECF expected antichrist to arise immediately after the Restrainer Pagan Rome fell - not 1,500 years after it fell.

There's several reasons why it's stupid to claim the Holy Spirit if the Restrainer.

For instance, you Jesuit Futurists expect us to believe a man who never ceased to preach Christ before kings or common folk all of a sudden got cold feet and passed up an opportunity to encourage Christ's fledgling church with, "Yes, we're led like sheep to the slaughter and are killed all the day long, but lift up your heads because the Holy Spirit has His boot on the neck of the Man of Sin!"

Rather, seeing that the ECFs testify that Paul was talking about Pagan Rome as the Restrainer, it makes perfect sense to not write down "when Pagan Rome falls, the Man of Sin will arise" lest that letter fall into the hands of Roman authorities, right or wrong?

Who but those with Roman catholic sympathies could ever be pleased with the notion that Paul refused to put in his letter what he'd told the Thessalonians the last time he'd visited for any reason other than what Protestant Historicism claims?

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The only event I am waiting for is when Jesus comes to the Mount of Olives.

Your head is in the sand of conspiracy theories. Why is God worried His Word should "fall into the wrong hands"?

Your conspiracy theories do not make sense.

Timtofly said:

We already know what image they will have:

"And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."

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Do you think... you actually paid attention to that verse as written that you posted?

Rev 9:7
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
KJV

Why... do they have "faces of men"?

Simple... BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN!

I already revealed that the locusts of Rev.9 was first mentioned in the Old Testament Book of Joel! Didn't anyone here pay attention to that?

I'm going to cover a lot of that Book of Joel to show those brethren that are interested. I'll start a new thread, and will come back and put a LINK to it here:

See my coverage in the Book of Joel about the locusts --

LOCUSTS From The Book of JOEL

The locusts God described in the Book of Joel are about the locusts mentioned for the END in Revelation 9. It AIN'T... about real locusts, but symbolic locusts. Joel 1:1-15 1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. 2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of...

www.christianityboard.com

Davy said:

Do you think... you actually paid attention to that verse as written that you posted?

Rev 9:7
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
KJV

Why... do they have "faces of men"?

Simple... BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN!

I already revealed that the locusts of Rev.9 was first mentioned in the Old Testament Book of Joel! Didn't anyone here pay attention to that?

I'm going to cover a lot of that Book of Joel to show those brethren that are interested. I'll start a new thread, and will come back and put a LINK to it here:

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David, men don't come out of the pit. Those rebel angels come out of the pit.

"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth."

Men are not locust in this event. These angels don't take on the human form, just a human head, with a horse's body.

Timtofly said:

David, men don't come out of the pit. Those rebel angels come out of the pit.

"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth."

Men are not locust in this event. These angels don't take on the human form, just a human head, with a horse's body.

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All angels have the image of man, which comes from GOD's OWN Image Likeness. You should have remembered this from Genesis 1:26-27. And if you need more help in that, see Genesis 18 where "three men" appear before Abraham at his tent door, and one of them was Lord Jesus, and the other two were the "two angels" which went to get Lot and his family out of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Douggg said:

no, no one here is waiting for a future Antichrist. We are looking for Jesus.

Yes, futurists do think that there will be a forthcoming coming Antichrist, and maybe are trying to identifying that specific person. But that does not make them a "Jesuit" futurists.

The Jesuit futurists argument is just a tired old counter-reformation reaction. Instead of being burden with that pointing fingers, name calling, instead study the bible itself regarding such matters, and try to learn about what the Jews (Judaism) believe about the messiah. After all, it is the Jews who will mistakenly think for a while that the person known as the Antichrist is their long awaited King of Israel messiah.

Everyone, please try to be a little more friendly with each other, in our posts.

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Phonyman777 doesn't know what he's talking about.

Apostle John in 2 John 2:18 warned that "antichrist shall come" how many years before the Jesuit Order was created by Loyola in 1540 A.D.? Phonyman777 doesn't want to count that, showing he is not here to spread the truth.

Davy said:

All angels have the image of man, which comes from GOD's OWN Image Likeness. You should have remembered this from Genesis 1:26-27. And if you need more help in that, see Genesis 18 where "three men" appear before Abraham at his tent door, and one of them was Lord Jesus, and the other two were the "two angels" which went to get Lot and his family out of Sodom and Gomorrah.

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I agree that the angels God sends appear as human. But Satan's angels are described in Revelation 9, and you are denying the very Word of God.

Douggg said:

no, no one here is waiting for a future Antichrist. We are looking for Jesus.

Yes, futurists do think that there will be a forthcoming coming Antichrist, and maybe are trying to identifying that specific person. But that does not make them a "Jesuit" futurists.

The Jesuit futurists argument is just a tired old counter-reformation reaction. Instead of being burden with that pointing fingers, name calling, instead study the bible itself regarding such matters, and try to learn about what the Jews (Judaism) believe about the messiah. After all, it is the Jews who will mistakenly think for a while that the person known as the Antichrist is their long awaited King of Israel messiah.

Everyone, please try to be a little more friendly with each other, in our posts.

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I feel it is necessary to aptly refer to it as "Jesuit Futurism" because it was invented by Jesuits. I also feel it necessary to aptly refer to the other as "Jesuit Preterism" because that, too, was invented by Jesuits.

Neither the Bible nor the ECFs taught of a rise of Antichrist during the Pagan Roman empire - they taught Antichrist would rise after the Restrainer - Pagan Rome - fell. Neither did they teach of an end times Antichrist that would arise after a "gap" of centuries.

Because almost every professing Christian is nearly or completely ignorant of church history, they don't understand that both these ideas were spawned from a crisis in catholicism caused by the Protestant Reformation and worldwide Protestant condemnation of the papacy as "Antichrist" which resulted in so many catholics abandoning catholicism for Protestantism, that a "counter-Reformation" was launched. From it, these two doctrines of devils emerged, pointing everyone's fingers of Antichrist accusation to the past, to the future, anywhere but at Rome. It's really all just a matter of history...and a matter of Protestant Historicism