The 144,000 before God at the end.

[covenantee]

Not talking about racism is much better. It is you who keeps "yelling wolf" all the time.

Where in Scripture does God stipulate we should go around and falsely accuse the brethren? Where in Scripture does God stipulate we should presuppose racism?

Who gives each individual the second birth?

You?

God?

Explain how exposing your fallacy that God excludes faithful obedient Gentiles, is "falsely accusing the brethren".

The true brethren don't peddle fallacies.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. This opinion perpetrated by perhaps millions of wrongly taught Christians, is still just an opinion passed down like any other cult, and false religion. There is nothing in Scripture that implies nor explicitly states this false assumption and presupposition.

That is not how they are portrayed by John in the few verses that they are even mentioned.

Need I remind you that the Johavah's Witnesses tried to declare themselves the church and the 144k representing the church of all nations on earth? That is what you claim about these 144k, even if you don't think they are literal people, but represent all the redeemed of mankind.

They are a literal 1200 from the named tribes as much as Jesus is a literal human of one of the 12 tribes. They serve Jesus, and follow Him everywhere He goes per Revelation 14. If you symbolize the 144k, you have to symbolize Jesus, that He is not a literal human. They may represent God on the earth, and will do so for the next millenia, but contrary to your false teaching, they are literal humans, no longer bound in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, but redeemed and enjoying God's permanent incorruptible physical body per Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:1 and 1 Corinthians 15:52. They are sealed on the earth after the Second Coming, after the church is glorified and waiting in Paradise.

They are dead in their sinful flesh, and the angels change them per the seal placed in their foreheads, out of death, into everlasting life and righteousness. Romans 11:26-27

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This verse can only take place at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, and that is when the 144k are redeemed on the earth to go through Jacob's trouble, while the majority of Isreal will be tossed into the LOF as goats. The goats ethnicity will not save them. Only a remnant are saved called the sheep in Matthew 25, along with the 144k. Election is not based on ethnicity, but the necessity of Adam and Eve's offspring to be redeemed. That Paul states clearly: physically born of Jacob, whom God named Israel, were natural branches, in no way makes God racist. They were natural branches under the Covenant given on Mount Sinai between God and Israel. All outside of physical Israel could be spiritually grafted in since Mount Sinai, by for lack of a better word, being "converted" into the Law.

Since the Cross, all mankind is converted into the second birth, via submission to the Holy Spirit. Israel was blinded in part, and their status as natural branches taken away. That put them at enmity per the gospel, but not according to election. It was the offspring of Jacob who had issues. Those redeemed since then should not be the ones going around crying racism and ethnic based redemption. That is a deception of Satan, just to stir up division in the body of Christ.

Changing what John wrote in Revelation 7 and turning those words into your own theological eschatology, and then accusing those in Christ of racism is carnal and at enmity with God.

The 144 000 is the Church saved by grace. A remnant out of mankind. Im afraid you are deceived ! Also the next thing to occur is the second coming of Christ and Judgment day friend.

 

[Davy]

Of course you didn't quote it, because it spiritually interprets and affirms the Scripture in Matthew, and simultaneously detonates your own carnalized private interpretation.

Who/What interprets Scripture?

1. You
2. Scripture

Need a hint?

What JESUS HIMSELF said in the Matthew 19:27-28 Scripture are DIRECT STATEMENTS in answer to Peter's question of what reward he and the other Apostles would receive for following Jesus.

Only a follower of the devil would claim what JESUS said to Peter there means something totally different than what is written there!

Therefore Brethren in Christ, MARK... these that go against JESUS' OWN WORDS, for they are of another spirit.

 

[Timtofly]

Explain how exposing your fallacy that God excludes faithful obedient Gentiles, is "falsely accusing the brethren".

The true brethren don't peddle fallacies.

That has always been your false accusation.

I never posted anything about that. Only you keep posting this nonsense, and then blame your accusations on other posters.

 

[TribulationSigns]

What JESUS HIMSELF said in the Matthew 19:27-28 Scripture are DIRECT STATEMENTS in answer to Peter's question of what reward he and the other Apostles would receive for following Jesus.

Again when Christ spoke to Peter and His apostles, He spoke to the church! Read the context:

Mat 19:27-30
(27) Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
(28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(29) And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
(30) But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

1.) Christ went to His Throne at the Cross after His resurrection (not Second Coming). So the kingdom of God has established at that time through the church.

2.) Not only 12 apostles, but ALL people regenerated in Christ shall judge the 12 tribes of Israel... not national tribes of Israel but SPIRITUAL tribes of Israel, making up of all people redeemed from all nations.

3.) Verse 29 says "EVERYONE" in the church, specifically those in regeneration in Christ.

Can you explain what Christ means by "many" that are first shall be last, and the last shall be first, if you insisted that the reward only applies to the original 12 apostles?

 

[covenantee]

That has always been your false accusation.

I never posted anything about that. Only you keep posting this nonsense, and then blame your accusations on other posters.

Oh, so you finally agree that "God excludes faithful obedient Gentiles" is false, and that in reality God includes faithful obedient Gentiles.

Glad to see it.

 

[Timtofly]

Oh, so you finally agree that "God excludes faithful obedient Gentiles" is false, and that in reality God includes faithful obedient Gentiles.

Glad to see it.

Glad you finally see the 144k are not the church in Paradise, but literal humans on the earth after the Second Coming.

 

[covenantee]

Glad you finally see the 144k are not the church in Paradise, but literal humans on the earth after the Second Coming.

Glad you see that God is not a racist.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Glad you finally see the 144k are not the church in Paradise, but literal humans on the earth after the Second Coming.

The 144,000 mentioned in the Book of Revelation do not represent the nation of Israel or the Gentile Church. Rather, it encompasses all the Elect in Christ. This includes a remnant from the Old Testament Congregation, Israel, and a remnant from the New Testament Congregation, the Church. Together, they form a great multitude and are united as one as symbolically 144,000 on Mount Zion with Christ. At the Second Coming of Christ, the Elect who have physically passed away will be brought by Christ and reunited with those who are still "alive and remain" on Earth at the last trump. This event is known as the Rapture, where both groups will be taken to meet with each other in the air along with Christ.

 

[Davy]

Again when Christ spoke to Peter and His apostles, He spoke to the church! Read the context:

Mat 19:27-30
(27) Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
(28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(29) And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
(30) But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

I DID READ IT. BUT YOU HAVE NOT!

Matt 19:27-28
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Lord Jesus was NOT saying that for the WHOLE CHURCH! That's crazy!

Jesus said that SPECIFICALLY for His 12 Apostles that FOLLOWED HIM at His 1st coming!

There WON'T BE multiple kings for each single tribe of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL in Christ's future Kingdom. There will be only ONE king over each tribe. And the ethnos (Gentiles) will have their OWN kings and priests also.

The Only way for what you to believe will happen is that EVERYONE SAVED at Christ's return MUST be a King. No! Jesus promised to make HIS faithful not just 'kings', but also PRIESTS, even as Peter said God made Israel and the Church a nation of PRIESTS! (Exo.19:6; 1 Peter 2:9).

 

[Davy]

And for the Biblically illiterate here, I recommend you get up to speed on the future restoration of ALL 12 tribes of the nation of Israel back to the lands God promised their fathers, and that under Christ's future Kingdom after His return, per the Ezekiel 47 and 48 Chapters.

 

[Keraz]

And for the Biblically illiterate here, I recommend you get up to speed on the future restoration of ALL 12 tribes of the nation of Israel back to the lands God promised their fathers, and that under Christ's future Kingdom after His return, per the Ezekiel 47 and 48 Chapters.

Ancient Israel has long since been mixed into the nations, the true Israelites are now the Christian peoples. They will be divided into 12 groups in the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26
Ezekiel 40 to 48 must take place BEFORE Jesus Returns. They elect a leader. Hosea 1:11

 

[Timtofly]

Glad you see that God is not a racist.

Which was always your point, and nothing I ever posted.

 

[covenantee]

Which was always your point, and nothing I ever posted.

Glad you agree with me.

 

[Timtofly]

Glad you agree with me.

No, I don't agree that you should call God racist. That was never the point at all.

The point was that the 144k are literal humans, more than likely, alive today, not a symbolic reference to all of humanity redeemed since Enoch.

 

[covenantee]

No, I don't agree that you should call God racist. That was never the point at all.

The point was that the 144k are literal humans, more than likely, alive today, not a symbolic reference to all of humanity redeemed since Enoch.

Your exclusive "offspring of Jacob" is racist.

I'm glad God is not a racist.

I'm glad you cannot disprove Genesis 17:12.

 

[Davy]

Ancient Israel has long since been mixed into the nations, the true Israelites are now the Christian peoples. They will be divided into 12 groups in the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26
Ezekiel 40 to 48 must take place BEFORE Jesus Returns. They elect a leader. Hosea 1:11

What you are saying must mean you have a different Bible than I've ever read. I use the KJV mostly.

Ezekiel 40 thru 48 is future Millennium reign time by Christ and His elect on earth, and involves a Millennium sanctuary with the details of that future sanctuary given specifically. And that will... involve the restoration of the BELIEVING 'seed' of the children of Israel back to the promised lands, to INCLUDE believing Gentiles with them. Then the last verse of Ezekiel 48 points to God's future Kingdom of the new heavens and a new earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Your exclusive "offspring of Jacob" is racist.

I'm glad God is not a racist.

I'm glad you cannot disprove Genesis 17:12.

And you just keep at, calling God racist.