The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

[101G]

In our Theology, the Study of the Godhead, are we correct in our beliefs and doctrine on the subject. there are many doctrines in the world, but are all correct? there are some doctrines, to some people, that are supposed to be the foundation pillars of their beliefs, and that’s Good, but are these beliefs in line, and upon line with the bible.

Just think for a second, in the back of our minds, do we really have total faith in our God “GIVEN” or man given doctoral beliefs that we stand on, or (sometimes on the middle of the fence). the bible states, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good”. (1 Thessalonians 5:21). And 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment”.
I would like to discuss the main doctrines of the world and prove all things in them, so that we all can all speak the same thing correctly.
There are some hard bible question that most doctrine just cannot answer, or address properly, or is twisted by man to fit their own theology without scriptual support. Do we just continue to live without the knowledge and understanding of these answers?
The bible clearly states, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works”. these are my goals in this discussion. And to achieve them is only through discussing the Holy Word of GOD.
I would like to put forth a doctrine that we believe answers all bible question concerning the GODHEAD, which many Christians today have. the answers to these question was taught by the Lord Jesus himself unto his disciples who became his apostles. That is “Diversified Oneness” which we believe.

Just what is “diversified oneness?” it is the sharing of one PERSON in the Godhead, instead of having, or the separation of PERSONS with one nature. I believe the bible supports only one doctrine, and I believe that doctrine it support is diversified oneness.

We all believe that there is one God, but the sticking point is in person, or person(s). this is what we will zero in on, the PERSON(S) of the GODHEAD. we can start with Genesis 1:26 and go throughout the OT to the end, in the NT which is Revelation. I believe diversified oneness is found in the OT as well as the NT.

Be blessed in this discussion.

 

[101G]

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them”.
These scriptures are the hallmark of many who say God is a trinity. Are we sure? A trinity consist of 3 but where in these scriptures do it state that. It says “us” and “our”. Could this us and our be only one “shared” person, meaning two and not three.
To start off this discussion I believe that these scriptures supports only “another” figure, meaning two, and not 3. Here’s my reasons. God is a H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), meaning a plurality, but how many are in this plurality? we suggest only two. Why? Because man is the image of God and that image is “ANOTHER” of oneself. Eve is “ANOTHER” of Adam, this is God IMAGE. In the Hebrew, we have two words that describe this IMAGE, or NATURE of God. They are H259, H312, respectively.
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') 1. (properly) united, i.e. one. 2. (as an ordinal) first.
H312 אַחֵר 'acher (ach-air') adj.1. (properly) hinder. 2. (generally) next, other, etc.
Now we can clearly see that God is a united ONE, or “ANOTHER” of himself as he created Adam. To be sure, the Hebrew for Adam/Man is H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm'), which can be translated as “ANOTHER” KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person. Remember there have only been two Adam on this earth, the first man Adam and the Last Adam. So this should start off our discussion, “THE IMAGE OF GOD” which is another. I'm now you what is your definition of God IMAGE.

So this is the basis of diversified Oneness, “ANOTHER”.

 

[DPMartin]

na, na na na, Jesus specifically states His Father in heaven. John specifically states Word of God made Flesh, and all the Apostles testify Jesus as the Son of God, and all teach one must be born of the Holy Spirit.

its quite apparent, you and your friends that are included as "we" in your statements, just don't understand. theology is of men, the Truth of God is of God.

in the first few verses in the bible there is God, the Presence of God (His Spirit, because Jesus says God is a Spirit) and the Word of God in which all of creation is founded and established on, including His Judgement of what is good.

 

[Helen]

I can as they say, I hear what you are saying , in the OP.
I have heard it before.
I don't believe it is something that divides the church...but, when I became born again, converted, got saved , or what term one uses...I was standing outside staring up at the beautiful full moon...and my " encounter" was with The Holy Spirit.
Yes, I had 'seen' for the first time , all that The Father did in giving us Jesus..I 'saw' the great sacrifice of Jesus and the power of the blood...but, the POWERFUL PRESENCE that fell upon me at that moment , was the Holy Spirit .
I personally don't believe the Godhead can be separated.
Just my two cents.

 

[101G]

na, na na na, Jesus specifically states His Father in heaven. John specifically states Word of God made Flesh, and all the Apostles testify Jesus as the Son of God, and all teach one must be born of the Holy Spirit.

its quite apparent, you and your friends that are included as "we" in your statements, just don't understand. theology is of men, the Truth of God is of God.

in the first few verses in the bible there is God, the Presence of God (His Spirit, because Jesus says God is a Spirit) and the Word of God in which all of creation is founded and established on, including His Judgement of what is good.

GINOLJC did not the Lord Jesus come from heaven? read Isaiah 35:4 and tell us who came, please understand the context of the verse
So who came?

 

[DPMartin]

GINOLJC did not the Lord Jesus come from heaven? read Isaiah 35:4 and tell us who came, please understand the context of the verse
So who came?

pay attention who said He didn't? how is it you see it was said that the Word of God isn't of God? the three are specified constaintly through out scripture how is it you have special info?

God created
the Spirit of God moved
God said

Abraham the father Isaac the son who was offered on the alter, and Jacob renamed Israel of which the Jews are the children of hence born of. the Father Son and Holy Spirit of which the Children of God are born of.

what special info in your "oneness" doctrine do you have that doesn't say that is true?

all living things are have a presence and are able to express, in some form. He who is the Living God the source of all living surely as the bible implies, never changes His Ways.

therefore there is God, His Presence (Holy Spirit) and His Word that is of Him. if you are confused about Heaven and its location.


Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

hence those born again have the indwelling of God via His Presence (Holy Spirit) with them. consider where is God but in Heaven. and Jesus would go on about His Father in Heaven and then say His Father is in Him and He in His Father. as Jesus has said "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation" and yet the Kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[101G]

pay attention who said He didn't? how is it you see it was said that the Word of God isn't of God? the three are specified constaintly through out scripture how is it you have special info?

God created
the Spirit of God moved
God said

Abraham the father Isaac the son who was offered on the alter, and Jacob renamed Israel of which the Jews are the children of hence born of. the Father Son and Holy Spirit of which the Children of God are born of.

what special info in your "oneness" doctrine do you have that doesn't say that is true?

all living things are have a presence and are able to express, in some form. He who is the Living God the source of all living surely as the bible implies, never changes His Ways.

therefore there is God, His Presence (Holy Spirit) and His Word that is of Him. if you are confused about Heaven and its location.


Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

hence those born again have the indwelling of God via His Presence (Holy Spirit) with them. consider where is God but in Heaven. and Jesus would go on about His Father in Heaven and then say His Father is in Him and He in His Father. as Jesus has said "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation" and yet the Kingdom of God is at hand.

I will answe one point at a time. The Spirit is God the Lord Jesus without flesh. It is the Lord Jesus who created all things right. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". Now I asked is not the Lord JESUS the Spirit, and remember there is ONLY ONE SPIRIT, now this will get to the heart of the OP and see if it's one person or three

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all, while our brother, DPMartin, is about to answer our Isaiah 35:4 question, Let's address the diversified oneness doctrine in the OT from the beginning. scripture, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". here, in the very first verse of the BIBLE is the doctrine of diversified oneness. viewing the original Hebrew, one will find these two letters in verse one, "אֵ ת". they are the Aleph and the Tav, reading left to right. if anyone have an eye for Hebrew one would recognize that these two untranslated letter tells us a lot about who God is. in the Greek these two letter are translated as "Alpha" and "Omega". in the English the "FIRST" and the "LAST". do this sound like a term you have heard before?, yes scripture, Revelation 1:9-11 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet 11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea". the Alpha and the Omega is the First and the Last for the Lord Jesus just SAID out of his own mouth that he is God the Spirit, who CREATED everything, whom most call FATHER... many have asked, "did the Lord Jesus say he is God in the scriptures, YES, and a resounding YES, scripture, Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last". here is the proof for any who say that the Lord Jesus did not say he is God. well here's your proof. the First and the Last is found in the very first book, at the very first chapter, at the very first verse of the bible. how plain can one get.


Conclusion: the Lord Jesus is the CREATOR, the Spirit, that is Holy, the ONE in the SAME "PERSON".
if any have do not agree, please state your case, speak now or forever hold your peace.....

my sources, Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT), found at Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible

also we will examine this FIRST (Aleph) and the LAST (Tav) more in the OT.

one might want to read this post again for clearity.

 

[101G]

I can as they say, hear what you are saying , in the OP.
I have heard it before.

To ByGrace, first thanks for your post, great to hear that, but have you hear of "Diversified" oneness, not oneness as the UPC teaches, but "Diversified" oneness?. I'm pretty sure this have not been taught before. if so please give your source as to where you heard this before, thanks.

 

[101G]

last one for today, let's up the ante a bit in Diversified Oneness. Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". there have been two question associated with this one scripture, A. who was God talking to. B. who are the US and the OUR. answer, God was speaking unto himself of what was to come. what was that? "ANOTHER" of himself in his own IMAGE, as a MAN in diversity of flesh and bones. knowing that did he, God, speak of this coming, yes in the Major prophet as well as the minor prophets. let deal with the minor prophets that many just don't know about when presenting the diversity of God. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones". everyone knows that this verse is referring to the cross reference of Matt 26:31 and Mark 14:27. but what's interesting here in Zechariah is the FACT that the LORD calls this man HIS "FELLOW". if one would look up the hebrew word for "FELLOW" here, it is,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
if one would notice definition #2 it states "kindred man" like in KINSMAN REDEEMER but the revelation is how it can also be translated as "ANOTHER". this man is God's ANOTHER. JESUS Christ is the ANOTHER of God in Flesh and Bone as a man, hid, (GOD) IMAGE. this is supported by Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross" side note: this is another fulfillment of one of thoses 106+ prophecies that was foretold.

as fulfilling what was spoken in Philippians 2:6 and manifested in the gospels, this ANOTHER or KINSMAN REDEEMER is the LORD, (all caps). scripture, Isaiah 41:14 "Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel".

conclusion: this MAN, this kindred man is the LORD, just read again Isaiah 41:14. lets be very sure that the REDEEMER here is the Lord Jesus. scripture, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". I, and ME, are single PERSON designation. but is not God a PLURALITY? yes, next time we will see the PLURALITY of God as the FIRST and the LAST.

a re-read of this post is necessary for clarity, and understanding. remember my footer......

 

[Naomi25]

Hi 101. Can I ask: if you are correct, why would God do this? Why would a single God feel the need to reveal himself to his people in three separate forms? Why would he possibly want or gain from that? Wouldn't it cause (as it has, should it be true) massive confusion?

I believe there are dozens and dozens of verses in scripture that speak to the doctrine of the Trinity, but perhaps let me just post this verse and ask this question first:

Acts 2:33

[33] Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. (ESV)


If Jesus was actually the HS, why would he receive himself from the Father? And if the HS is also God and Jesus, why would they sit at their own right hand...if that makes sense. Wouldn't they sit where they sit?
The way scripture is written makes absolutely no sense unless there are three persons. We mock people if they start talking about themselves in the third person...but this would go way beyond even that! The way Jesus speaks of the Father and of The Spirit. The way the Spirit honor and points to the Father and Christ. The way the Father loves his son. Scripture paints a full picture for us, and if you start playing with it, you're not only messing with doctrine, you end up with language that makes our God seem insane. Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but that's just how it seems.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to Naomi25. first, thanks for your post. second, when I read your post this morning, it was like reading a post from an Israelite back in Peter, Paul, James, and the other apostles times and day, who is now facing the Gospel for the first time in their lives and it is saying you don’t have to serve the LAW anymore which they had known all their lives. Naomi25, please understand “CHANGE” is hard to come by, but once done, oh the benefits and the JOY of knowing the truth, which have been hidden.

But I understand what you’re feeling right now, I’m not looking for you or anyone else to jump ship on something you know nothing about, and leave the trinity that you have known all your life. I only ask this, “just consider what I have said, is saying, and will say”. understand, revelation is progressive, meaning, it’s happens or develops gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step. this is what happen to our mother Eve, she didn’t wait on God to progressively teach them KNOWLEDGE with understanding in his wisdom. she was lied to and tried to learn on her own, (a desire to make one wise, Gen 3:6). but if she had the proverbs, she would have known “to lean not to her own understanding, but acknowledge God in all things”. but she didn’t have that luxury od knowing the proverbs. which answer one of your first question, “if you are correct, why would God do this?”. this is what a christian should do, “ASK QUESTION”, instead of condemnation first. this I like about you, and you have asked some good questions in your post, I thank my God.
I will answer you point by point, and question by question. now to answer your question, “Why is he doing this”, I answer only by scripture, 1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth”. that's a powerful verse there.

Now Naomi25 as I have said, the revelation of God's word is progressive, in reading your post you’re in need of some studying. I’m going to give you some homework for your edification.
#1. sitting at the right hand of God is not physical, it have nothing to do with sitting at all, it’s about Power, two Greek words, G1411, dunamis, ABILITY, MIGHT, and G1849, exousia the Authority to used the power/dunamis

#2. Look up the definition of anthropomorphism. study it, it will help you understand God's right hand meaning, ok.

I believe these will get you started in the right direction.

study these words see how they are used in scriptures in relation to the Lord Jesus. and this evening we will discuss them and many more.

be bless until this evening.

 

[KBCid]

In our Theology, the Study of the Godhead, are we correct in our beliefs and doctrine on the subject. there are many doctrines in the world, but are all correct? there are some doctrines, to some people, that are supposed to be the foundation pillars of their beliefs, and that’s Good, but are these beliefs in line, and upon line with the bible.

No they are not.

Just think for a second, in the back of our minds, do we really have total faith in our God “GIVEN” or man given doctoral beliefs that we stand on, or (sometimes on the middle of the fence). the bible states, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good”. (1 Thessalonians 5:21). And 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment”.

This is God's will that we seek the truth and prove it.

Just what is “diversified oneness?” it is the sharing of one PERSON in the Godhead, instead of having, or the separation of PERSONS with one nature. I believe the bible supports only one doctrine, and I believe that doctrine it support is diversified oneness.
We all believe that there is one God, but the sticking point is in person, or person(s). this is what we will zero in on, the PERSON(S) of the GODHEAD. we can start with Genesis 1:26 and go throughout the OT to the end, in the NT which is Revelation. I believe diversified oneness is found in the OT as well as the NT.

There is no multiplicity of persona in God. God the father is one being. His son the Christ is a different individual being. The twain are one in purpose just as Christ describes to his apostles;

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

As individual beings we experience and understand that we are individuals. The meaning of oneness as Christ describes his oneness with the father is to be one in purpose. We as individuals can grasp this meaning just by watching or participating in sports. All members of a team of individuals are working for a common goal or single purpose and as such they work as one body. This is the oneness we need to strive for in order to one day be part of the body of God.

God and Christ are 2 independent individuals. Christ came directly out from the Father just as our own spirit came from the Father, reference these two verses;

Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

The difference between us and Christ is that he was the first formed god and his identity was hidden from the beginning. Remember we are all gods as it is written. We cannot be gods unless we came from the Father. The power we possess as gods is controlled by the Father. Christ was given great power by the Father because he is the first born son "The bright and morning star";

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to Naomi25. I’ll address your questions.
Question #1. “if you are correct, why would God do this?”

1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth”.

Question #2. “Why would a single God feel the need to reveal himself to his people in three separate forms?”

A. Form 1. Spirit as Creator, Maker. title Father, (invisible, without flesh and bone) Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse”.

B. Form 2. SAME Spirit diversified/shared manifested as Redeemer, Saviour. title Son, (visible, with flesh bone and blood) Romans 3:23-25 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God”.

C. Form 3. SAME Spirit, title Holy Spirit, (invisible, and Visible), GLORIFIED, who is Father and son “GLORIFIED” John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was”. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”. this son, this child is the “MIGHTY GOD” and understand the “EVERLASTING FATHER”. yes that son that was born is the “EVERLASTING FATHER”. the question, how can the son be the father at the same time? answer the “EQUAL SHARING” of the Spirit in “ANOTHER” nature. Glorified, the Son is the Father, Revelation 5:5 & 6 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”.

Question #3. “Wouldn't it cause (as it has, should it be true) massive confusion?”

NO, 1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints”. massive confusion come only by ignorance in combination with deception. for the TRUTH shall “MAKE” you free.

Question #4. “I believe there are dozens and dozens of verses in scripture that speak to the doctrine of the Trinity, but perhaps let me just post this verse and ask this question first: Acts 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. (ESV)”.

your homework should answer one, but we’ll be examining everyone.
Question #5. “If Jesus was actually the HS, why would he receive himself from the Father?”

He is the Holy Spirit, only when in NATURAL flesh did he receive, scripture, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was”. and why did he receive? because he G2758 κενόω kenoo himself, or made himself of no reputation just as Philippians 2:7 states, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men”.

Question #6. “ And if the HS is also God and Jesus, why would they sit at their own right hand...if that makes sense. Wouldn't they sit where they sit?”

your homework will answer that for you.

Question #7. “The way scripture is written makes absolutely no sense unless there are three persons”.

that’s a False perceptions on most people behalf. but this is what this topic is all about, “PERSONS”. I don’t know if you followed a conversation in your post when I asked the question, “How many PERSON(S) the revelation is from” and I cited Revelation 1:4 & 5 which proved that the Letter is from ONE PERSON. see, if someone is taught to see three person they will see three person.

Question #8. “We mock people if they start talking about themselves in the third person”

I suggest you read up on the possessive pronoun and the Possessive determiners.

after your review of this post I would like to Get back into the First and the Last, and see this diversity of God in the Scripture.

PS, you asked, “if you are correct”. consider this, “what if you’re wrong?”.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to KBCid, first thanks for the response. I will address your post one point at a time. you said,

There is no multiplicity of persona in God. God the father is one being. His son the Christ is a different individual being. The twain are one in purpose just as Christ describes to his apostles;

ERROR on your PART. you said God the Father is one BEING. good, please explain this scripture to me, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world". ok KBCid notice that conjunction there "and" between God and Father. is this one being or two. I'll be waiting for your answer.

 

[101G]

I guess KBCid couldn't answer the James 1:27 question. so I'll answer it for you, ONE PERSON. now to the NATURE of this ONE PERSON

God and Christ are 2 independent individuals. Christ came directly out from the Father just as our own spirit came from the Father, reference these two verses; Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

The difference between us and Christ is that he was the first formed god and his identity was hidden from the beginning.

he was the first formed god?. I challenge you to produce any scripture that states that the Lord Jesus was Formed as a "god". but we will refute your statement. Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand". so no god with him eliminates any chance of any god "formed" by him. and this notion that we're god, try judges and magistrates, see Ps 82:6.

that's real nice, but fall short of the meaning of PERSONS. remember we're keying in on PERSON(S) and since you brought up PERSON and NATURE. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". KBCid, can you tells us how our Saviour is "EQUAL" WITH God in NATURE. now if they have the SAME
EQUAL nature, (as Phil 2:6 states) then he is GOD, and not a "formed" god. I'll be waiting form your answer on that.

 

[KBCid]

ERROR on your PART. you said God the Father is one BEING. good, please explain this scripture to me;
James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world".
ok KBCid notice that conjunction there "and" between God and Father. is this one being or two. I'll be waiting for your answer.

indeed let us explore. suppose we look at the same verse this way;

James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before god and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world".

I actually already answered your question in my post above let's review it now;
"The difference between us and Christ is that he was the first formed god and his identity was hidden from the beginning. Remember we are all gods as it is written. We cannot be gods unless we came from the Father. The power we possess as gods is controlled by the Father."

There is a lot of things in translation that appear one way based on the choices made during the translation process that could mean something totally different when another choice is made. Remember English as it was during the translation time was not even thought of during the time that the original words were being said.
This reminds me of another verse that is always mistranslated and skews the meaning of what was intended have a look;

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Sounds very much like Christ is telling the thief that he will be in paradise that same day right? now consider the proper correction to the translation;

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

As Christ intended he was letting the thief know today, that he would one day be with him in paradise. This is an easy error to discern since all should know that Christ did not rise from the dead for 3 days and nights nor had he yet gone to make a place for his chosen.

 

[Naomi25]

GINOLJC, to Naomi25. first, thanks for your post. second, when I read your post this morning, it was like reading a post from an Israelite back in Peter, Paul, James, and the other apostles times and day, who is now facing the Gospel for the first time in their lives and it is saying you don’t have to serve the LAW anymore which they had known all their lives. Naomi25, please understand “CHANGE” is hard to come by, but once done, oh the benefits and the JOY of knowing the truth, which have been hidden.
But I understand what you’re feeling right now, I’m not looking for you or anyone else to jump ship on something you know nothing about, and leave the trinity that you have known all your life. I only ask this, “just consider what I have said, is saying, and will say”. understand, revelation is progressive, meaning, it’s happens or develops gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step. this is what happen to our mother Eve, she didn’t wait on God to progressively teach them KNOWLEDGE with understanding in his wisdom. she was lied to and tried to learn on her own, (a desire to make one wise, Gen 3:6). but if she had the proverbs, she would have known “to lean not to her own understanding, but acknowledge God in all things”. but she didn’t have that luxury od knowing the proverbs. which answer one of your first question, “if you are correct, why would God do this?”. this is what a christian should do, “ASK QUESTION”, instead of condemnation first. this I like about you, and you have asked some good questions in your post, I thank my God.

Hi 101. I agree that we must be open to learn. I think that going into something bullheadedly believing in it's truth just because we were raised believing something can be foolish.
But having said that...just because I was raised believing in the Trinity, does not mean that my belief in it is wrong! There are very good scriptural evidences for the Trinity and a lot of the biblical exegesis has been done for a lot of years by people a lot smarter than I. And I'm afraid in my conversation with you, I will not be able to do those evidences justice. But I am happy to engage anyway and do my best.

I will answer you point by point, and question by question. now to answer your question, “Why is he doing this”, I answer only by scripture, 1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth”. that's a powerful verse there.

I suppose this verse can be readily applied either way! Yes...to the truth. Which ever it may be. Glory to God in the end.

Now Naomi25 as I have said, the revelation of God's word is progressive, in reading your post you’re in need of some studying. I’m going to give you some homework for your edification.
#1. sitting at the right hand of God is not physical, it have nothing to do with sitting at all, it’s about Power, two Greek words, G1411, dunamis, ABILITY, MIGHT, and G1849, exousia the Authority to used the power/dunamis

Man, I've always hated homework!
But actually, before we get to the the Greek (which I'm not great at), can I step back and just look at the passages that speak of Christ being at the right hand of God? Because in the English, it actually seems that the position of 'power' is the thrown itself, and Jesus has the place next to it. It's a place of honor. Consider these verses:


[64] Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” - Matthew 26:64


A Psalm of David.

[1] The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.” - Psalm 110:1

And then in 1 Kings 2:19 and Psalm 45:9 we have other examples of how being sat at the right hand of power is a place of honor. Yes, that is also a place of power, but the power comes from the one on the throne, the one who is handing the honor on.
We see in 1 Corinthians 15 that the Father has given authority to Christ and that at the end of time Jesus will hand that authority back to God the Father:

For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:27-28

Not only do we see a distinct weaving together of a separate relationship between the two: Father and Son, but we see the roles. The Father is upon the Throne, and the Son is at his right hand, glorified and honored, but ultimate power and authority belongs to the Father. In this way, all members of the Godhead can be worshiped completely. All glory can be given to Christ for what he did, but that glory is also the Fathers, who gave his Son up.

My point is, I don't think we can just say "at his right hand" means Christ is seated in power. Well...yes. But....
It's the 'but' that gives it more depth. It is a place of power, but it's also a place of honor. Both honor and power are given. Hence the 'at the right hand' reference. If Christ were the Father, and all power and authority were just his, he wouldn't need to reference any sort of 'right hand' to let us know these things about himself. He could simply say, "he sat on his throne". But that Throne is for The Father. And the right hand is for The Son. Two distinct places...two distinct reasons.

#2. Look up the definition of anthropomorphism. study it, it will help you understand God's right hand meaning, ok.

I believe these will get you started in the right direction.

study these words see how they are used in scriptures in relation to the Lord Jesus. and this evening we will discuss them and many more.

be bless until this evening.

Anthropomorphism: the attribution of human characteristics or behaviour to a god, animal, or object.

Nope. Sorry. Can't see how this has anything to do with anything!

 

[101G]

U answered nothing in your second post. and as for gods with power,

Remember we are all gods as it is written. We cannot be gods unless we came from the Father. The power we possess as gods is controlled by the Father."

U might be a god.... (smile), me, I a son of God. now a couple of things about your gods thing. you quote Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High". but you forgot the very next verse. 7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes".

#2. Egypt had gods, as well as other nations including Israel, 1 Chronicles 16:26 "For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens". is this what you are, rmember Deuteronomy 32:39a "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me". if no god with him then how are you with him. no Psalms 82:6 and what our Lord quoted was concering judges and magistrates, so that won't fly.

There is a lot of things in translation that appear one way based on the choices made during the translation process that could mean something totally different when another choice is made. Remember English as it was during the translation time was not even thought of during the time that the original words were being said.

that's a cop out.

anyway I'm waiting for the Philippians 2:6 answer on the Lord Jesus nature, being EQUAL to God.

 

[KBCid]

I guess KBCid couldn't answer the James 1:27 question. so I'll answer it for you, ONE PERSON. now to the NATURE of this ONE PERSON
he was the first formed god?. I challenge you to produce any scripture that states that the Lord Jesus was Formed as a "god". but we will refute your statement. Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand". so no god with him eliminates any chance of any god "formed" by him. and this notion that we're god, try judges and magistrates, see Ps 82:6.

Simple things.
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no God with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand".

I will let Christ say it for me;
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

The Son of God is the first god formed. You should also study Hebrew and what meaning there is for the first born son of any father.
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
When you have God for your father he can make you into anything short of himself.

KBCid, can you tells us how our Saviour is "EQUAL" WITH God in NATURE. now if they have the SAME EQUAL nature, (as Phil 2:6 states) then he is GOD, and not a "formed" god. I'll be waiting form your answer on that.

Let's actually review Phil 2:5-6 so no intent to convey understanding is left out;

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of god, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Christ encourages us to be like the Father just as he strove in his earthly life to be just like his Father and his father of course was;
Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.