[Miss Hepburn]

Now, what I'm aiming for is not necessarily for verses.
I mean in your heart  - in your understanding of God 's Heart...

Why?  Why is it so simple - why is it we just have to have faith in His Son?

Thank you, I look forward to your posts,
Miss Hepburn

[gumby]

Good question miss hepburn, i beleive its just a matter of beleiving that christ is was and always will be who he says he is. Its a matter of receiving gods love and mercy for yourself and rejoicing when others are saved. For me each time i plant a seed with someone its like me re-reminding myself to stay in the word that to me that seed planting instills more faith in me.

God bless 

[Stumpmaster]

Miss Hepburn said:

Now, what I'm aiming for is not necessarily for verses.
I mean in your heart  - in your understanding of God 's Heart...

Why?  Why is it so simple - why is it we just have to have faith in His Son?

Thank you, I look forward to your posts,
Miss Hepburn

Faith is the conduit, the channel, the pipeline, the medium through which grace flows from God to the believer. Without faith for it to travel through grace cannot be imparted to a person. I believe the Gospel reveals that unrepented sin blocks the flow of God's grace to believers and unbelievers alike. 

[Miss Hepburn]

Stumpmaster said:

Miss Hepburn said:

Now, what I'm aiming for is not necessarily for verses.
I mean in your heart  - in your understanding of God 's Heart...

Why?  Why is it so simple - why is it we just have to have faith in His Son?

Thank you, I look forward to your posts,
Miss Hepburn

Faith is the conduit, the channel, the pipeline, the medium through which grace flows from God to the believer. Without faith for it to travel through grace cannot be imparted to a person. I believe the Gospel reveals that unrepented sin blocks the flow of God's grace to believers and unbelievers alike.

Yes, true. And gumby, also.

Now, the ques however would be leaning more towards - "why".
Why is it so simple for us to be "saved"...with only belief or faith in
God's son? The above is getting there by defining faith a bit and how it is needed for grace to flow.
So, ok you have faith and grace is flowing ----but, why?

Why is that all one needs to have to allow as much grace as you want flow from the Spirit Realms down to this level to us?

Is that zeroing in more?  Why is that? 

Miss Hepburn

[forgivenWretch]

Because that is the way He wanted it to be and also probably because the human mind normally can not accept simplicity, which makes us do some reasoning in making our decisions. If one of my children were to do everything that was expected of them without doubting the why, that child would probably be more favored, and I would be willing to do more for them.

[jerryjohnson]

Grace through faith.  But it not a once in a life time thing, understand here, that I’m not saying it’s anything to do with works, once saved we need to continue to grow in our faith and build a relationship with God by reading and understanding His Word.  Jesus Christ is the Word of God, from Genesis through Revelation. 

[Christina]

jerryjohnson said:

Grace through faith.  But it not a once in a life time thing, understand here, that I’m not saying it’s anything to do with works, once saved we need to continue to grow in our faith and build a relationship with God by reading and understanding His Word.  Jesus Christ is the Word of God, from Genesis through Revelation. 

I 100% agree Jerry faith is tested at every turn its only the wisdom you gain in Gods Words that will sustain it, faith is the beginning of building the relationship ...God says many are called few are chosen ... Without the meat of the Words of God the milk will not sustain you ..again Gods Words not mine ...

[James]

Faith is having trust in Christ. Trusting Christ is everything. It's the ONLY way God can get glory out of a person. We were all created to glorify God and advance his Kingdom. This can only be accomplished by having faith because when a person places his faith in Jesus, a relationship builds and that persons life will be conformed to the image of Christ and Christ will be reflected in that believers life.

You can try to be self righteous by attempting to be as good as possible but again God will not get any glory from such an act. However, by simply having faith in the Lord, he can break you and change you and demonstrate his mercy and grace towards you and bring you out of the darkness and into the light. Faith is everything.

I also don't think faith is easy either. I guess it depends on how you look at it. If faith was easy then everybody would follow Christ. Faith is something that starts off small and weak and even pitiful. After some time, it will grow and mature in the believer and that is how you grow in wisdom and in your relationship with Christ.

I think that the reason why that God set things up so a person has to put their faith in his son is because Christ is the center of the new covenant. If people only worshiped God and placed their faith in Him only and not Christ also then you would be denying Christ and everything he has done for us. He is the missing link that makes it possible for us to even have a relationship with the Father. So if you throw out the bible and just go by what makes sense...to me it makes perfect sense to acknowledge Jesus as Christ and in doing that you automatically are placing your faith in Him.

These our my personal thoughts as to why faith alone is all that is needed. I hope this helped answer your question Miss Hepburn. 

[mjrhealth]

Remeber the thief on the cross. He never had a chance to do any thing. He realised he was a sinner and deserved his fate, recognised that Jesus was innocent and then simply asked Jesus to remember him. And what was oyr Lords response," Today you will be with Me in paradise", No church, no bible, no baptism, no tithing, no pastor or priest, juts a simple recognitian of wht he was and who Jesus was. Its us who add all the overheads.

In His Love

[Miss Hepburn]

Oh, it's nice hearing my buddies speak about faith.

Miss Hepburn

[James]

mjrhealth said:

Remeber the thief on the cross. He never had a chance to do any thing. He realised he was a sinner and deserved his fate, recognised that Jesus was innocent and then simply asked Jesus to remember him. And what was oyr Lords response," Today you will be with Me in paradise", No church, no bible, no baptism, no tithing, no pastor or priest, juts a simple recognitian of wht he was and who Jesus was. Its us who add all the overheads.

In His Love

You make a really good point! It doesn't get any less confusing then that. Just simply acknowledge who Jesus is.

[Miss Hepburn]

mjrhealth said:

Remember the thief on the cross. He never had a chance to do any thing. He realised he was a sinner and deserved his fate, recognised that Jesus was innocent and then simply asked Jesus to remember him. And what was our Lord's response," Today you will be with Me in paradise", No church, no bible, no baptism, no tithing, no pastor or priest, just a simple recognition of what he was and who Jesus was. It's us who add all the overheads.
In His Love

Now you're onto something aren't you?

We all know what faith is - we all have faith - we all practice faith -
we love hearing about faith - we love to expound on faith - we all like to read verses about faith - we love and are grateful for the gift of faith - but why?

Why is it so exquisitely simple - I believe - when one really "gets" that  - a very deep relationship is realized with their Lord (even more than one already has).
A very moving, growing, intimate and humbling closeness blossoms even more...

as He draws us even closer realizing why He makes it so easy for us.
That was more of what I was wanting to get to.  Yeah.

[gumby]

Miss Hepburn said:

Stumpmaster said:

Miss Hepburn said:

Now, what I'm aiming for is not necessarily for verses.
I mean in your heart  - in your understanding of God 's Heart...

Why?  Why is it so simple - why is it we just have to have faith in His Son?

Thank you, I look forward to your posts,
Miss Hepburn

Faith is the conduit, the channel, the pipeline, the medium through which grace flows from God to the believer. Without faith for it to travel through grace cannot be imparted to a person. I believe the Gospel reveals that unrepented sin blocks the flow of God's grace to believers and unbelievers alike.

Yes, true. And gumby, also.

Now, the ques however would be leaning more towards - "why".
Why is it so simple for us to be "saved"...with only belief or faith in
God's son? The above is getting there by defining faith a bit and how it is needed for grace to flow.
So, ok you have faith and grace is flowing ----but, why?

Why is that all one needs to have to allow as much grace as you want flow from the Spirit Realms down to this level to us?

Is that zeroing in more?  Why is that? 

Miss Hepburn

Read Hebrews 12:1, Hebrews 12:2 and Hebrews 12:3. Think about the blood that christ shed on the cross and all the suffering that he went to for us.

[Adstar]

• Quote

  Now, what I'm aiming for is not necessarily forverses.
  I mean in your heart  - in your understanding of God 's Heart...
  
  Why?  Why is it so simple - why is it we just have to have faith in HisSon?
  
  
  Thank you, I look forward to your posts,
  Miss Hepburn
  
  
  
  God is perfect.
  He can only accept a Perfect creation to exist with Him in Eternity.
  Therefore to have eternity with God we must become perfect.
  We are not perfect.
  We cannot achieve perfection
  We can only be changed into a perfect state by Gods intervention.
  This intervention can never be earned.
  It must be a gift.
  So if we are transformed into a perfect state then there can be no boasting on our part.
  Therefore all Glory and Honour rests with God who has achieved the Redemption of His creation by His own Works.
  
  Therefore our works while we do them out of Love for God and Love for our Neighbour.
  And our efforts to resist sin while being noble showing agreement with the will of God.
  Can never reach a point of perfection that would justify eternity with God on their own merit.
  
  Therefore all talk of Works earning ones eternity with God is nothing but the pride of man striving to earn self-justification.
  
  
  The gift of salvation from God can only be a gift if it is not payed for. Once you pay for a gift then the gift becomes a payment. Indeed seeking to pay for the gift is an insult to the gift Giver. How would you feel if you when through hell on earth to obtain a gift for someone you love and for them to turn around and offer money for it?
  
  
  All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Adstar]

mjrhealth said:

Remeber the thief on the cross. He never had a chance to do any thing. He realised he was a sinner and deserved his fate, recognised that Jesus was innocent and then simply asked Jesus to remember him. And what was oyr Lords response," Today you will be with Me in paradise", No church, no bible, no baptism, no tithing, no pastor or priest, juts a simple recognitian of wht he was and who Jesus was. Its us who add all the overheads.

In His Love

Just read this one  

Excellent.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[mjrhealth]

Hi Adstar, well said. People need to come to the realisation that Jesus did all the work, our only work is to love, in that we can do everything that God requires of us.

In His Love

[Miss Hepburn]

Adstar said:

God is perfect.
He can only accept a Perfect creation to exist with Him in Eternity.
Therefore to have eternity with God we must become perfect.
We are not perfect.
We cannot achieve perfection
We can only be changed into a perfect state by Gods intervention.
This intervention can never be earned.
It must be a gift.
So if we are transformed into a perfect state then there can be no boasting on our part.
Therefore all Glory and Honour rests with God who has achieved the Redemption of His creation by His own Works.

Therefore our works while we do them out of Love for God and Love for our Neighbour.
And our efforts to resist sin while being noble showing agreement with the will of God.
Can never reach a point of perfection that would justify eternity with God on their own merit.

Therefore all talk of Works earning ones eternity with God is nothing but the pride of man striving to earn self-justification.


The gift of salvation from God can only be a gift if it is not payed for. Once you pay for a gift then the gift becomes a payment. Indeed seeking to pay for the gift is an insult to the gift Giver. How would you feel if you when through hell on earth to obtain a gift for someone you love and for them to turn around and offer money for it?

Whoa, I'll be printing this out and re-reading this one.
Very nice.
Thank you.

[WhiteKnuckle]

I think faith alone saves us simply because God said it.  So, we believe that God took away our sins through Jesus Christ.  If we don't believe that we're calling God a liar. Since God can't lie, that would make us liars, and we'd have more sin added to the sins we can't take away from ourselves.  That would make us live in perpetual sin, even if all other sins are taken away whether we believe or not.  We would unwittingly add sin.  That's why simply not believing is a sin.

The person that doesn't believe will not have the sins of unbelief taken away, they stay there.  That's why you can't be redeemed without believing.

Works can't save, that's a fact.  But, works are merely a result of believing.  Since we believe we obey, by obey we show works.  We show works not because we believe that something better is going to come our way (well, we all fall into a type of fear or hope depending on our own works), However, works are to show the Love of Christ, and that Christ loves All men regardless of their sins.

Throu Jesus we have a type of freedom of what our works are that we would have in the old covenant.

That's how I see it anyway.

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, I believe that too -"Because God said it."

[Benoni]

You speak of faith, faith is nothing but carnal man reaching out to God by his own initiative, his own freewill.  IMPOSSIBLE  according to God's will. 

How can someone believe, when that person is dead.  Dead in trustpasses and sin.  You know many of you know this but God hides himself from the world, go to the Muslin world ans mention the name Jesus.  Go to a crack house full of teenages that all that matters to them is being cool and getting there next fix.  You name it there are thousands of examples in this world full of sin, darkness and mans carnal flesh where no one can see, touch, smell, hear God without the power of God's spirit to quicken or draw them first. 


The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture. 

Oh sure you can find the word Freewill in the OT when it comes to the Hebrew Freewill offering; BUT that feast has nothing to do with basic salvation. 

The Bible is God’s will; His Word and all of God’s it will be accomplished.  It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word.  God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day

1670  helkuo (hel-koo'-o);  drag

Jeremiah 18:2
Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.  3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.  4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.




Romans 9:12  It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [1] relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).) 14 What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.)  16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over.  18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills.  19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and  Why have you made me thus?  21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?   

[Benoni]

Alot of words but where is the scripture?

WhiteKnuckle said:

I think faith alone saves us simply because God said it.  So, we believe that God took away our sins through Jesus Christ.  If we don't believe that we're calling God a liar. Since God can't lie, that would make us liars, and we'd have more sin added to the sins we can't take away from ourselves.  That would make us live in perpetual sin, even if all other sins are taken away whether we believe or not.  We would unwittingly add sin.  That's why simply not believing is a sin.

The person that doesn't believe will not have the sins of unbelief taken away, they stay there.  That's why you can't be redeemed without believing.

Works can't save, that's a fact.  But, works are merely a result of believing.  Since we believe we obey, by obey we show works.  We show works not because we believe that something better is going to come our way (well, we all fall into a type of fear or hope depending on our own works), However, works are to show the Love of Christ, and that Christ loves All men regardless of their sins.

Throu Jesus we have a type of freedom of what our works are that we would have in the old covenant.

That's how I see it anyway.

[Benoni]

When it comes to carnal mans having a desire to walk and talk with God he is dead from that realm for he has no spiritual life to see, or hear God.

Romans 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
      There is no one who looks to God for help.

This is why God must draw us (John 6:44) or quicken us out of our carnal nature and we have no freewill or choice within this human naked state to do this on our own.  Notice the context of Ephesians 2 where God’s Spirit took seven verses to lay down the foundation of how man’s spiritual death state and God must quicken us.  (Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of God’s word is "QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING!

1(1) And you hath he quickened, (2) who were dead in trespasses and sins;
"For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (3) (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye (4) saved through faith; (5) and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

I will add once this has happen we had no choice or freewill.

   

[Benoni]

Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself that in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him." [Ephesians 1:9-10].

       

So precious are these verses, we must share them also from two other translations, each which adds to the beauty and wonder of this glorious truth.
       
Phillips: "For God has allowed us to know the secret of His plan, and it is this: He purposes in His sovereign will that all human history shall be consummated in Christ, that everything that exists in Heaven or earth shall find its perfection and fulfillment in Him."
       
Weymouth: "He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it-- the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

[Nomad]

Once again Benoni, you're way off-topic with your hobbyhorse doctrine. Allow me to assist you. The question at hand here is, is faith alone God's appointed appropriating instrument for justification or is it faith + works? Could it be that works and obedience are rather the fruit or result of faith as Scripture saith?


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[Benoni]

Nomad,

If anyone has a hobby horse doctrine it is you who is maliciously with calculation ignored the total context of Ephesians 2 seeing we have discussed this very principle thoroughly many times. 

Faith comes only after God quicken the carnal man who is dead in trespasses and sin.  You fundies love to cry context when it fits your hobby horse doctrine, well you are ignore the context you put so much trust in; look at the context of the chapter instead of your hobby horse doctrine.


Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of God’s word is "QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING! "For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast



It is a strange theory that obsesses men that the human will is greater in power than God, and that, no matter what the will of God is for His creatures, man is able finally to wreck it.

Although the Holy Spirit seeks to woo all men to Christ, since God loves all mankind and wills to save all men, still, the omniscient God has boxed Himself into a corner, since the will of God is bound by the will of man, and the Omnipotent Spirit can be resisted by finite man if man so chooses.

Such faulty reasoning actually brings into prominence ANOTHER OMNIPOTENCE which, because it baffles the omnipotence and love of God, is by far the greater. Man will not so God cannot! What makes this notion so tragic is that it DEIFIES MAN, elevating him to god-hood, and aligns all who embrace it with the very sin that caused the fall in the beginning! 

  It is true that man has a will, but so also has God.

It is true that man is endowed with power, but God is all-powerful.

It is true that, speaking generally, the material world is regulated by law, but behind that law is the law-Giver and law-Administrator.

Man is but the creature. God is the Creator, and untold ages before man first saw fight "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6) existed, and ere the world was founded, made His plans; and being infinite in power and man only finite, His purpose and plan cannot be withstood or thwarted by the creatures of His own hands.

To say that Christ is unable to win to Himself those who are unwilling is to deny that all power in heaven and earth is His. To say that Christ cannot put forth His power without destroying man's responsibility is a begging of the question here raised, for HE HAS put forth His power and MADE WILLING those who HAVE come to Him, and if He did this without destroying their responsibility, just why "CANNOT" He do so with others? 

[Nomad]

One again Benoni, I agree that faith is the gift of God. But, that's not the point of this thread.

Let's try this again. From my previous post:

Quote

The question at hand here is, is faith alone God's appointed appropriating instrument for justification or is it faith + works? Could it be that works and obedience are rather the fruit or result of faith as Scripture saith?


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[Benoni]

Amen, but God is not calling all people.  So yes thouse who are called are justified but for a purpose. 

Nomad said:

One again Benoni, I agree that faith is the gift of God. But, that's not the point of this thread.

Let's try this again. From my previous post:

Quote

The question at hand here is, is faith alone God's appointed appropriating instrument for justification or is it faith + works? Could it be that works and obedience are rather the fruit or result of faith as Scripture saith?


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[Nomad]

I give up. 

[Benoni]

You speak of justification, So please let us look at God’s Word.

Please give up, let go and let God.


Colossians 3:14-16

14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.  15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

(Amp) 15And let the peace (soul harmony which comes) from Christ rule (act as umpire continually) in your hearts [deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds, in that peaceful state] to which as [members of Christ's] one body you were also called [to live]. And be thankful (appreciative), [giving praise to God always].


Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Resurrection means to rise; notice the word unjust.

[Butch5]

Miss Hepburn said:

Now, what I'm aiming for is not necessarily for verses.
I mean in your heart  - in your understanding of God 's Heart...

Why?  Why is it so simple - why is it we just have to have faith in His Son?

Thank you, I look forward to your posts,
Miss Hepburn

Faith alone doesn't save us.