78 replies to this topic

[guysmith]

Are the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) Christian?

Guy

[jiggyfly]

Are the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) Christian?

Guy

Do you mean Christian in reference to being a proponent of the Christian religious institution?

[guysmith]

Hello jiggyfly,

Christian, as a person which truly accepts Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

[HammerStone]

What is the seal of God in their foreheads? If you know the answer to that, then you know the answer to this question.

[jiggyfly]

Hello jiggyfly,

Christian, as a person which truly accepts Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

Then I would say yes, because Christ is the only way to the Father.

[fivesense]

Are the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) Christian?

Guy

The term "Christian" was first put forth in derision by those who were referring to the disciples of John and the Lord that were of the house of Israel. It has been gradually inclusive of the nations, and has taken on a less offensive form, and now has become the moniker of the gentile believers as well.
In that truest sense, yes, those Jewish believers who will comprise the 144,000, will be Christians. They will be of the sons of Israel and Hebrew as the New Covenant on earth proceeds as was promised.
fivesense

[Christina]

Are the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) Christian?

Guy

12,000 from each tribe the ten Lost tribes became christians Judah(w/ Benjamin) remained Jews to preserve the Law (Old Testament, both are represented in the 144,000 Christian and Jew will be joined under Christ at the End.
See Eze 37 where both sticks are rejoined into one ..One stick is Judah (Jews) the other stick is Jospheps son Empriam representing the 10 lost tribes called Israel and those with her (the other tribes) .So in short the 144,000 are Christian and Jew (judah)

[TallMan]

Are the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) Christian?

Guy

No, they are sealed in that they are protected as they travel accross Europe to "the appointed place" the British Isles and coastlands of W Europe.
Dan doesn't need to be protected from the Romans or Barbarian hordes as that tribe was sea-faring.

12000 & 144000 symbolises perfect government - of God in the affairs of man.
Each of the 7 "times" since the fall of Jerusalem marks a significant point in the history of these tribes and their opponents.

[guysmith]

Hello Hammerstone,

You stated: What is the seal of God in their foreheads? If you know the answer to that, then you know the answer to this question.

My response: I believe that the seal is given to the 144K as divine protection against the remaining trumpet and vial plagues. This would imply that the 144K are the only Christians alive at that time. If there were any other Christians alive at that time, then those unsealed Christians would also be affected by these plagues designed to affect the rest of the world and humanity.

What are your thoughts on this special seal?

Guy

[evanom]

No, they won't be christians. They will be Jews who have understood that Yeshua was and is their Messiah. Christianity is for us gentiles.

[fivesense]

No, they won't be christians. They will be Jews who have understood that Yeshua was and is their Messiah. Christianity is for us gentiles.

Seems like when someone reads what God has spoken, like evanom here, and just believes it, it's just too downright simple. You probably got a handle on the Roman Epistle, too. I thank Him for your response, cause I would have gotten too wordy.
fivesense

[The Robster]

No, they are sealed in that they are protected as they travel accross Europe to "the appointed place" the British Isles and coastlands of W Europe.
Dan doesn't need to be protected from the Romans or Barbarian hordes as that tribe was sea-faring.

12000 & 144000 symbolises perfect government - of God in the affairs of man.
Each of the 7 "times" since the fall of Jerusalem marks a significant point in the history of these tribes and their opponents.

What are they going to the British Isles for? To grab a guinness? :lol:From what I've read it indicates that they are just sent out among the world to preach the gospel during the tribulation. I didn't exactly see an itinerary set for just those parts of the world.

[evanom]

What are they going to the British Isles for? To grab a guinness?

The Robster


HAhahaha

[The Robster]

^ Glad someone has a sense of humor on this site.

[Wafuwasi]

I just take it as an example of figurative languge.  In the hebrew times the numbers 3 7 and 12 were like centrel or base numbers of culture. Example it was common for one to forgive 3 times but as in Mathew when Jesus says forgive not 7 times but 70 x 7 times. Now I doubt he means forgive people 490 times so 144,000 could be figurative for a very large unimaginable amount. Also John said in revelations 7: 9: "after this I looked and their before me was a great multitude that no one could count from every nation tribe people and language standing their before the throne and infront of  lamb..."
so ya I hope it helps but that's how I think it's figurative. If you beleive and have faith in Jesus your goin to heaven by the grace of GOD

It is finished
Amen

[Christina]

No, they won't be christians. They will be Jews who have understood that Yeshua was and is their Messiah. Christianity is for us gentiles.

LOL.... thats a contradiction in terms if they believe in Christ they are Christians ....

Hello Hammerstone,

You stated: What is the seal of God in their foreheads? If you know the answer to that, then you know the answer to this question.

My response: I believe that the seal is given to the 144K as divine protection against the remaining trumpet and vial plagues. This would imply that the 144K are the only Christians alive at that time. If there were any other Christians alive at that time, then those unsealed Christians would also be affected by these plagues designed to affect the rest of the world and humanity.

What are your thoughts on this special seal?

Guy

Right answer Guy ...remember what we are told
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Satan and his locusts army can only hurt those without the seal of God on them The 144,000 thousand have the seal before the tribulation even begins ....

The mulitude thats afterward are those who come out of confusion and overcome by the testomny given by the 144,000
(Mark 13) this chapter about the 144,000 is two seperate visions covering two time periods before and after the tribulation

[Adstar]

Are the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe) Christian?

Guy

I don't believe so.

They are innocents of the tribes of Isreal. The Reminant.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Templar81]

if there was only room in heaven for 144,000 then the quota would have been filled years ago and we wouldn't have a chance at salvation. There are probably more peopelw tih St in front of their names than 144,000. So no, they are the first to be resurrected, the other dead are judged later.

[Christina]

if there was only room in heaven for 144,000 then the quota would have been filled years ago and we wouldn't have a chance at salvation. There are probably more peopelw tih St in front of their names than 144,000. So no, they are the first to be resurrected, the other dead are judged later.

I do not understand your post at all ??

The 144,000 are those that are of the Elect and sealed by God here on earth before the tribulation starts. Satan can not hurt them this is the first vision John has in the chapter ....
The second vision is after the tribulation and is of the Mutitude of people nations and tonges that overcome the tribulation they all will be of the first resurrected they have all overcome unto the end .... This has nothing to do with being in heaven its takes place right here on earth ....

[Templar81]

That's actually my point but the thread was titled in misleading way and I assumed that it was saying there are only 144,000 places in Heaven. I know there are people who believe only 144,00 people go to heaven and the ret go to hell.

[TallMan]

What are they going to the British Isles for? To grab a guinness?

“I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,” (2 Samuel 7:10)

[sniper762]

unless you are and have been celebate all your life, you wont be one of them.

[The Robster]

“I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,” (2 Samuel 7:10)

Did I miss something? In what part of that scripture is it alluding to the British Isles? I'm not seeing it.

[TallMan]

Did I miss something? In what part of that scripture is it alluding to the British Isles? I'm not seeing it.

You have to fit this and other prophecies into history. Clearly it's not referring to what is now called "Israel" as that's where they were when the promise was given.

Much of the detail of many prophecies, promises and parables concerning the tribes of Israel in these last days cannot be understood and remains silent mystery until you appreciate what became of them. The northern "house of Israel" (along with about 200,000 Judahites) were taken captive & deported by the Assyrians to an area near the Caucasian mountains, the vast majority never returned to Palestine but became wanderers accross Europe (map). They emerged as the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic people. The history of the "House of Judah" is more well known, they were taken captive to Babylon for 70 years and returned in the time of Ezra & Nehemiah.

Basic intro here.
More detail here.

Btitish from Hebrew: brit: covenant, ish:man.
The unconditional promises given to Abraham, (and David concerning the Throne)

[sam]

What do you read of them in the scripture?
Rev 7:4



And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

They are not called as Christians. But we find another multitude who are called 'Those who have washed their clothes in the blood of the Lamb.

If you find yourself a place in this group, why you look around and debete if those from the tribes of the children of Israel are Christians? No where in the Bible we read 'we Christians are titled with a tribe's name like Ruben or Benjamin.



In Rev 14 we find again the mention of 144000 saints.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Let us seach the scripture to find if there is any group of people called the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb?
Jer 2:3
Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase.

[brightmorningstar]

To me, the 144,000 are Christian, that is believers, but an elected not all Christians/believers.

It should be fairly obvious from scripture that the believers of the NT were believers according to what became enshrined the NT. That all who call themselves Christians are not believers is evident from the NT, and eveident from a confession of faith or disbelief, but only God can pass the judgement to eternal life.

[Episkopos]

They are Christians in the true sense of the term...they abide in Christ.

[MR ROSENBERGER]

They are Christians in the true sense of the term...they abide in Christ.

Yes !
Jesus mother was a Israel a true Christian.

[veteran]

The 144,000 of Rev.7 are all literal Israelites, and they're all sealed with God's seal in their foreheads. They represent an elect remnant specifically from the seed of Israel. That sealing by God is so as to not be deceived for the end time. It was first mentioned prophetically in Ezekiel 9 about God telling the angel with the inkhorn to go and put a mark on the foreheads of all those who sigh in Jerusalem because of the abominations going on covered back in Ezekiel 8. The last Hebrew letter 'Tau' is used for the word "mark", and Tau was represented by a cross in ancient Hebrew writing. The idea of the sealing for the end is also hinted at in Rev.9.

But the 144,000 are not the only ones sealed by God. By the later Rev.7 example of a future look about the "great multitude" out of all nations and peoples standing before the throne and The Lamb, that signifies their having been sealed away from deception along with the 144,000.


The 144,000 as Virgins:
The Rev.14:4 idea of the 144,000 being literal virgins is not the idea meant there. It's a symbol for faithfulness, as our Lord Jesus and His Apostles used the 'virgin' symbol to represent faithful believers on Him that do not fall away nor become deceived in the end (i.e., Matt.25; 2 Corinthians 11). God first used the 'virgin' symbol in the Old Testament to represent faithfulness to Him. He contrasted the idea of a spiritual harlot with it. I've noticed many brethren in Christ are very lacking in Bible study about this important spiritual virgin metaphor which God's Word uses, including for the tribulation timing.

Edited by veteran, 29 June 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Watchwithme]

No, they won't be christians. They will be Jews who have understood that Yeshua was and is their Messiah. Christianity is for us gentiles.

Not quite right in my opinion.Because a Jew who understands that Jesus is the Messiah is technically a Christian. They will be converted Jews much in the same way as the apostle Paul was converted. Now one could argue that whilst the apostle Paul was a Jew, he was a Jew that became a Christian. The 144,000 will be like the apostle Paul, they will be as powerful and as influential as he was. Imagine 144,000 Apostle Paul’s in the world at one time and you will get the idea. This is why an innumerable amount of people get saved during the tribulation period, because of these guys. Many of them will be martyred.

The term "Christian" was first put forth in derision by those who were referring to the disciples of John and the Lord that were of the house of Israel. It has been gradually inclusive of the nations, and has taken on a less offensive form, and now has become the moniker of the gentile believers as well.

Correct, a less offensive name given to them was "followers of The Way", which I myself prefer, although sadly there is a "Christian Cult" who uses that name now.

Edited by Watchwithme, 22 July 2012 - 05:03 AM.