Jump to content

Primary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Secondary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Squares Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to Christianity Board Christian Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

Make No Mistake! God Will Kill Some For Not Keeping His Dietary Laws!

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1
Eccl.12:13

Eccl.12:13

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
Let’s jump right into this lesson!

Who is it that determines what is holy and what is unholy? Who decides what is sanctifies and what is not? Who tells man what is clean and what is unclean? Who is it that tells us what is an abomination? Who is it that establishes what is righteous and what is unrighteous? And finally….by who’s authority is sin established?

There is only one that can declare such things: GOD ALMIGHTY!!! Man can not do it. That means, whatever God has said is HOLY, AN ABOMINATION, IS SANCTIFIED, CLEAN, RIGHTEOUS and is SIN are just that.

Here’s another question for you, If man can’t declare it, can man, ANY man, change it? NO!!! The one that declares it is the ONLY one that can change it! And guess what? HE DIDN’T!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let’s read a very familiar bible story where God made a distinction between “clean” and “unclean” very early on in the bible. Even BEFORE there was a nation of Israel.

Gen.6
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
[14] Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.


We all know the story…let’s continue;

 
[19] And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

But was that ALL Noah was to bring into the ark? Let’s read into the next chapter;

Gen.7
[2] Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.


We have ALL heard the story of God bringing the animals into the ark “two by two”, but why is it we NEVER hear about the bringing in of “seven by seven”, or there being a distinction between “clean” and “unclean” beast?

So we find that even BEFORE there was a nation of Israel, God told man there was a difference between ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ beast. And how did Noah know what was clean and unclean? By the same way he knew it was wrong to steal, kill and commit adultery; he was TOLD by someone!!!

God’s word has told us that man knew about clean and unclean beast before we find them written down, even before there was a nation of Israel. Let’s now jump ahead to the specific’s of just which beast God says are an clean and unclean.

Lev.11
[2] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
[3] Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

So the above are ‘clean’ beast according to the ONLY one that can declare it; GOD. Let’s now read of some ‘unclean’ beast.

[4] Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
[6] And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
[7] And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
[8] Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Along with all that God said was ‘unclean’ we have dear Mr. Swine included!

Now do you think Noah was told the same thing? Of course he was. Even though we have no written record, we know he knew the difference between ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ beast, because God’s word tells us he did.

Let’s look at more ‘clean’ animals, as declared by God…

[9] These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

And the ‘unclean’ that are in the water as follows….

[12] Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So as long as the animal has fins AND scales it is ok to eat.

Now let’s look at one last ‘unclean’ group of animals…..

[29] These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,
[30] And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

And among this list was find dear Mr. Mouse included.

God calls ALL ‘unclean’ animals an abomination to eat! Not that they ARE an abomination. They are only an abomination to EAT!

Please keep Mr. Swine and Mr. Mouse in your memory…they WILL come up again!



Lesson continued in Part II of: Make no Mistake! God WILL kill some for NOT keeping His Dietary Laws!



.


  • 0

#2
mjrhealth

mjrhealth

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts
I guess you dont know God very well.

You really should aski Him what He will and will not do before you go telling everyone.

Its a mughty dangerous place to be, to speak for God.

In His Love

PS. Its nice knowing the bible, but iot means nothing if you dont Know Jesus.
  • 0
The words that I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life. You search the scriptures, reading them thinking they bring you life, and they testify of Me yet you wont come to me so that you can have eternal life.

#3
bud02

bud02

    Advanced Member

  • Account Disabled
  • PipPipPip
  • 727 posts

I guess you dont know God very well.

You really should aski Him what He will and will not do before you go telling everyone.

Its a mughty dangerous place to be, to speak for God.

In His Love

PS. Its nice knowing the bible, but iot means nothing if you dont Know Jesus.


The topic has been going on about this subject with this poster, in this thread.
http://www.christian...__fromsearch__1
  • 0

#4
Eccl.12:13

Eccl.12:13

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
And yet NO ONE can deny that Jesus IS going to KILL some for NOT keeping His Dietary laws!

Makes you want to 're-think' the warning of Peter and the writings of Paul.....huh!!!!!

Like Peter said.......You REALLY want to make sure you understand what it is Paul was saying!

Was Paul REALLY saying God's dietary laws were done away with?

After all.........

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

.......does not leave alot of room for error!!!!!!

It's pretty cut and dry!!! There are NO grey areas here. God's word is true and there WILL be those 'consumed' for NOT keeping His dietary laws!

It could be you.....but it does not have to be!!!!!

Is a pork-chop sandwich THAT good?


.


.





  • 0

#5
charlesj

charlesj

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 188 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, Texas

Let’s jump right into this lesson!

Who is it that determines what is holy and what is unholy? Who decides what is sanctifies and what is not? Who tells man what is clean and what is unclean? Who is it that tells us what is an abomination? Who is it that establishes what is righteous and what is unrighteous? And finally….by who’s authority is sin established?

There is only one that can declare such things: GOD ALMIGHTY!!! Man can not do it. That means, whatever God has said is HOLY, AN ABOMINATION, IS SANCTIFIED, CLEAN, RIGHTEOUS and is SIN are just that.

Here’s another question for you, If man can’t declare it, can man, ANY man, change it? NO!!! The one that declares it is the ONLY one that can change it! And guess what? HE DIDN’T!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let’s read a very familiar bible story where God made a distinction between “clean” and “unclean” very early on in the bible. Even BEFORE there was a nation of Israel.

Gen.6
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
[14] Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.


We all know the story…let’s continue;

 
[19] And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

But was that ALL Noah was to bring into the ark? Let’s read into the next chapter;

Gen.7
[2] Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.


We have ALL heard the story of God bringing the animals into the ark “two by two”, but why is it we NEVER hear about the bringing in of “seven by seven”, or there being a distinction between “clean” and “unclean” beast?

So we find that even BEFORE there was a nation of Israel, God told man there was a difference between ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ beast. And how did Noah know what was clean and unclean? By the same way he knew it was wrong to steal, kill and commit adultery; he was TOLD by someone!!!

God’s word has told us that man knew about clean and unclean beast before we find them written down, even before there was a nation of Israel. Let’s now jump ahead to the specific’s of just which beast God says are an clean and unclean.

Lev.11
[2] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
[3] Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

So the above are ‘clean’ beast according to the ONLY one that can declare it; GOD. Let’s now read of some ‘unclean’ beast.

[4] Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
[6] And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
[7] And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
[8] Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Along with all that God said was ‘unclean’ we have dear Mr. Swine included!

Now do you think Noah was told the same thing? Of course he was. Even though we have no written record, we know he knew the difference between ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ beast, because God’s word tells us he did.

Let’s look at more ‘clean’ animals, as declared by God…

[9] These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

And the ‘unclean’ that are in the water as follows….

[12] Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So as long as the animal has fins AND scales it is ok to eat.

Now let’s look at one last ‘unclean’ group of animals…..

[29] These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,
[30] And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

And among this list was find dear Mr. Mouse included.

God calls ALL ‘unclean’ animals an abomination to eat! Not that they ARE an abomination. They are only an abomination to EAT!

Please keep Mr. Swine and Mr. Mouse in your memory…they WILL come up again!



Lesson continued in Part II of: Make no Mistake! God WILL kill some for NOT keeping His Dietary Laws!



.



Some thoughts on eating...

Matt 15:10,11 “Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"”





Romans 14:14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean…… 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. (Context is dealing with a “weak brother,” but we can learn here that we can eat anything we want “if we don’t offend” a weak brother. I think Paul would NOT have eaten the unclean, but I also think he knew the liberty Christians have in the New Covenant.)



Think about this: (Gal 2 :12) “For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.” Do you think the Gentile, who NEVER had the Mosaic Law, ate only “clean foods?” I don’t think so. What was James doing eating with these Gentiles?

You can go back to Noah and show he knew the difference between clean and unclean. What does that prove? Do you ever see any command(s) regarding eating clean/unclean before the Law given at Mt. Sinai? (The same with the Sabbath)


Gen 1:29,30 “Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.”


NIV Genesis 9:1-4 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
(Note, abstaining from eating blood was the only thing the apostles told the Gentiles they to avoid in Acts 15.)



Gen 9:1ff doesn’t contradict the passage in Deut 14:3-21. Here in Genesis 9 we are dealing with men who were not under the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses required the Jew to abstain from certain foods, etc. Off the top of my head, I think there were 613 laws given that applied to the Jew. The Gentile NEVER had the Law of Moses…. And never will.


Christians are under the “law of Christ.”

Hear Paul: 1 Cor 9: 20,21 “And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, though not being myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, that I might win those who are without law.” (Paul placed himself under the “law of Chirst.”)

Hear Paul again: Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ.

The apostles dealt with some Jewish believers trying to place new believers under the Mosaic Law in Acts 15.

Acts 15: 28,29 “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.” (NIV)



I wouldn’t put the “burden” of the unclean/clean law on the Christian.

If you were to sit at my table, I would abstain from any unclean (pork, or with anything that has pork in it such as jell or jello, certain vitamins’, etc) in order not to offend you or your guest.



Place yourself under the “Law of Christ.” He will give you freedom and rest. I was a Sabbath keeper for about five years and I KNOW WHAT A BURDEN it is when you come to the dietary laws and following “some” of the 613 commandments. (the ten commandments are included in the 613).





May the Lord be with you.



Your servant in Messiah, Jesus the Christ, Our Lord,

Charles Jemeyson

cjemeyson@satx.rr.com

San Antonio, Texas
  • 0

#6
Eccl.12:13

Eccl.12:13

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts

Some thoughts on eating...

Matt 15:10,11 “Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"”


Now you know at NO point did Jesus EVER mention anything about FOOD! The topic was about washing, NOT food!


[2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Again we see the problem is not with WHAT they are eating, but with the fact that the disciples are not washing their hands. Now let’s look at the 2nd verse closer;

“And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.”

Above we were just given the definition of “defiled”, according to the context of this verse. Defiled - “that is to say, with unwashen hands.” At NO point was their discussion EVER about food.

What was it was that was defiled? "That is to say, with unwashen hand..."! NOT FOOD!!!


Can the scriptures be any more clear?

So what was Jesus saying? He tells us! But you have to read further down in the chapter. Let's read it together.....


[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


Did Jesus say ANYTHING about FOOD?


Next......

So why is it again Jesus is going to consume some for eating unclean beast?

Isa.66
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


This is the question NO ONE has yet to answer!!!!

And trust me.......I KNOW you guys are trying to find a way around it!!!!

.

.


  • 0

#7
charlesj

charlesj

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 188 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, Texas

Now you know at NO point did Jesus EVER mention anything about FOOD! The topic was about washing, NOT food!


[2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Again we see the problem is not with WHAT they are eating, but with the fact that the disciples are not washing their hands. Now let’s look at the 2nd verse closer;

“And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.”

Above we were just given the definition of “defiled”, according to the context of this verse. Defiled - “that is to say, with unwashen hands.” At NO point was their discussion EVER about food.

What was it was that was defiled? "That is to say, with unwashen hand..."! NOT FOOD!!!


Can the scriptures be any more clear?

So what was Jesus saying? He tells us! But you have to read further down in the chapter. Let's read it together.....


[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


Did Jesus say ANYTHING about FOOD?


Next......

So why is it again Jesus is going to consume some for eating unclean beast?

Isa.66
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


This is the question NO ONE has yet to answer!!!!

And trust me.......I KNOW you guys are trying to find a way around it!!!!

.

.



Hello Eccl 12:13:



If you want to apply Matt 15 to deal with washing of hands ONLY then I will accept that.

The point of Christ to the Pharisees was that washing of hands didn’t define a man. He went on to say, HEY fellows, nothing that goes into the mouth, but what comes out defiles a man. (MY wording, cj) You can learn here even though they were discussing washing of hands.





YOU SAID:



So why is it again Jesus is going to consume some for eating unclean beast?

Isa.66
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


This is the question NO ONE has yet to answer!!!!

And trust me.......I KNOW you guys are trying to find a way around it!!!!”





ANSWER:



In “CONTEXT” (chapter 66) what is this chapter speaking of and to whom is it speaking and why was it written?



If you read the whole chapter you would NOT be applying it to those of the New Covenant, that is, Christians.

I’m going to briefly go through the chapter, at least to verse 20 so as to cover the verse you are using as a “proof text’ not to eat unclean food. Also you are saying Jesus is going to “consume” those who eat unclean beast. NOT SO!



IN the beginning of Isaiah 66, you see some Jewish exiles (from the Babylonia captivity) contemplating appeasing God by building of another temple of great beauty; but is this what Jehovah wants? Could they make a dwelling place for Him whose dwelling place is heaven and whose footstool is earth? Could they impress Him with this?

What God wants is a dwelling place in a man heart (v.2).

God is not impressed by rivers of blood or numerous sacrifices (see Micah 6:6ff). It is not fastidious care in the choice of the clean sacrifices which impresses God! As far as He is concerned, they are all one, if a man does not belong to God! See this also in Psalm 51:16ff. They must suffer for the choice of their ways (v.4) God cannot be bribed by formalism.

To those who are abused (v5), God speaks comfort.

To those Jews whose heart was Zion, comes the word: “Rejoice ye with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all ye that love her” (v.10) She will have peace (v.12) and in this will the righteous Jews be comforted (vs 13,14)



…..skipping down to verse 15 and following…

Judgment will come along with blessing (see also Isaiah 61:2 with 63:4)

The nation (the exiles of Israel) must be purged to bring about blessing. God is going to bring judgment on ISRAEL. This judgment will weed out the iniquitous, those who break the Mosaic Law and eat swine’s flesh, etc.

The rest will be “escapees”, survivors; and these will be sent among the nations to declare God’s glory shown in judgment (this is illustrated in Ezekiel 35:8,9, 15b & Isaiah 26:9b). The sign placed thus among Israel refers to the stigma of judgment. (See also Exodus 10:1,2)

They of verse 20 seem to be the nations (compare 43:6; 49:22f; 60:4) who carefully (v.20b) bring home the scattered of Israel. These former exiles will be used as priests and Levites (v.21)….



Isaiah 66 is dealing with the exiles from the Babylonian captivity. These are JEWS and not Gentiles. Some of these exiles had picked up the habits of Babylon and God would “weed these out.” Some of these exiles are breaking the law of Moses with unclean meats as food.



Christians are under The Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. Jesus changed the law (Heb 7:12ff) We are under a new Priest, a Priest from the tribe of Judah!! We are NOT under Moses, nor has a Gentile ever been under that law unless he/she became a proselyte to Judaism.



May the Lord be with you,

Your servant in Messiah, Jesus the Christ,
Charles Jemeyson
cjemeyson@satx.rr.com
San Antonio, Texas


"God has NO grandchildren, NO in-laws, ONLY children"

  • 0

#8
Eccl.12:13

Eccl.12:13

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts

Hello Eccl 12:13:



If you want to apply Matt 15 to deal with washing of hands ONLY then I will accept that.

The point of Christ to the Pharisees was that washing of hands didn’t define a man. He went on to say, HEY fellows, nothing that goes into the mouth, but what comes out defiles a man. (MY wording, cj) You can learn here even though they were discussing washing of hands.





YOU SAID:



So why is it again Jesus is going to consume some for eating unclean beast?

Isa.66
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


This is the question NO ONE has yet to answer!!!!

And trust me.......I KNOW you guys are trying to find a way around it!!!!”





ANSWER:



In “CONTEXT” (chapter 66) what is this chapter speaking of and to whom is it speaking and why was it written?



If you read the whole chapter you would NOT be applying it to those of the New Covenant, that is, Christians.

I’m going to briefly go through the chapter, at least to verse 20 so as to cover the verse you are using as a “proof text’ not to eat unclean food. Also you are saying Jesus is going to “consume” those who eat unclean beast. NOT SO!



IN the beginning of Isaiah 66, you see some Jewish exiles (from the Babylonia captivity) contemplating appeasing God by building of another temple of great beauty; but is this what Jehovah wants? Could they make a dwelling place for Him whose dwelling place is heaven and whose footstool is earth? Could they impress Him with this?

What God wants is a dwelling place in a man heart (v.2).

God is not impressed by rivers of blood or numerous sacrifices (see Micah 6:6ff). It is not fastidious care in the choice of the clean sacrifices which impresses God! As far as He is concerned, they are all one, if a man does not belong to God! See this also in Psalm 51:16ff. They must suffer for the choice of their ways (v.4) God cannot be bribed by formalism.

To those who are abused (v5), God speaks comfort.

To those Jews whose heart was Zion, comes the word: “Rejoice ye with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all ye that love her” (v.10) She will have peace (v.12) and in this will the righteous Jews be comforted (vs 13,14)



…..skipping down to verse 15 and following…

Judgment will come along with blessing (see also Isaiah 61:2 with 63:4)

The nation (the exiles of Israel) must be purged to bring about blessing. God is going to bring judgment on ISRAEL. This judgment will weed out the iniquitous, those who break the Mosaic Law and eat swine’s flesh, etc.

The rest will be “escapees”, survivors; and these will be sent among the nations to declare God’s glory shown in judgment (this is illustrated in Ezekiel 35:8,9, 15b & Isaiah 26:9b). The sign placed thus among Israel refers to the stigma of judgment. (See also Exodus 10:1,2)

They of verse 20 seem to be the nations (compare 43:6; 49:22f; 60:4) who carefully (v.20b) bring home the scattered of Israel. These former exiles will be used as priests and Levites (v.21)….



Isaiah 66 is dealing with the exiles from the Babylonian captivity. These are JEWS and not Gentiles. Some of these exiles had picked up the habits of Babylon and God would “weed these out.” Some of these exiles are breaking the law of Moses with unclean meats as food.



Christians are under The Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. Jesus changed the law (Heb 7:12ff) We are under a new Priest, a Priest from the tribe of Judah!! We are NOT under Moses, nor has a Gentile ever been under that law unless he/she became a proselyte to Judaism.



May the Lord be with you,

Your servant in Messiah, Jesus the Christ,
Charles Jemeyson
cjemeyson@satx.rr.com
San Antonio, Texas


"God has NO grandchildren, NO in-laws, ONLY children"




In 'context'; Isa.66:16 "....ALL FLESH..."!!!

Not Israel only, but ALL FLESH, in 'context' of course!!!!!


.



.
  • 0

#9
charlesj

charlesj

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 188 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, Texas

In 'context'; Isa.66:16 "....ALL FLESH..."!!!

Not Israel only, but ALL FLESH, in 'context' of course!!!!!


.



.


Eccl:

When God speaks to a group, such as He is in Is. 66, the whole group of exiles, He is saying "all flesh" (all of them in this group) that has disobeyed the Law of Moses will pay for it! That's it. Don't try to make it something it isn't.

The one’s who face a penalty are the one’s who have LAW! God will not punish those “without” law. The Gentile nations NEVER had the Law of Moses which included the dietary laws. 1 Cor 5:13, “(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law….” ) Therefore, because there is no dietary laws for the Gentile, then sin isn’t imputed.
(God has always had law, even from Adam's time, but we are speaking of dietary laws which only one nation had and that was Israel.)

Again, God is not speaking to a Gentile nation here, He is speaking to the exiles (Jews).
Read the whole chapter.

Yours in Christ,
Charles Jemeyson
cjemeyson@satx.rr.com
San Antonio, Texas

"...the SUM of thy Word is Truth" (Psalms 119:160)

  • 0

#10
Eccl.12:13

Eccl.12:13

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts

Eccl:

When God speaks to a group, such as He is in Is. 66, the whole group of exiles, He is saying "all flesh" (all of them in this group) that has disobeyed the Law of Moses will pay for it! That's it. Don't try to make it something it isn't.

Read the whole chapter.



Great idea! Let's read the whole chapter!

So what you are TRYING to say is whenever God says "...all flesh..." who He is really talking to is just one group?

Please tell me just who it is God is speaking about in this verse that follows.....



[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


So tell me, will it be ONLY the nation of Israel that comes to worship the Lord?

What about ALL of the other nations left on the earth? Will they NOT come to worship before the Lord? Of course they will....God's word says it. Let's read it together....

Zech.14
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So Isa.66 says ALL flesh will worship the Lord and Zech.14 says ALL nations will worship the Lord!

I'm sure those reading can see just how flawed this logic is!


And what about this verse? Just what 'group' of people is God speaking of here?

Acts 2
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Please tell the readers just which 'group' of people will ONLY receive the Spirit of the Lord!!!

And what about this verse? Which group of people is God talking to here?

Jer.25
[31] A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.

So please tell us.....which 'nationS
' is God talking about?

This is flawed logic!

Like I said......I know there are some just TRYING to find a way around what God's word is so obviously saying!!!

And whay God's word says is this;


[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


I know you don't want to accept it, but God's words are true!

There WILL be those killed for NOT keeping God's dietary laws!


.


.


  • 0

#11
bud02

bud02

    Advanced Member

  • Account Disabled
  • PipPipPip
  • 727 posts

And yet NO ONE can deny that Jesus IS going to KILL some for NOT keeping His Dietary laws!

Makes you want to 're-think' the warning of Peter and the writings of Paul.....huh!!!!!

Like Peter said.......You REALLY want to make sure you understand what it is Paul was saying!

Was Paul REALLY saying God's dietary laws were done away with?

After all.........

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

.......does not leave alot of room for error!!!!!!

It's pretty cut and dry!!! There are NO grey areas here. God's word is true and there WILL be those 'consumed' for NOT keeping His dietary laws!

It could be you.....but it does not have to be!!!!!

Is a pork-chop sandwich THAT good?



I think Peter should start listening to what God says.
You and him "Peter" would get along great.

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter And Esccl 12:13 said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.


.


.





  • 0

#12
charlesj

charlesj

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 188 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, Texas

Great idea! Let's read the whole chapter!

So what you are TRYING to say is whenever God says "...all flesh..." who He is really talking to is just one group?

Please tell me just who it is God is speaking about in this verse that follows.....



[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


So tell me, will it be ONLY the nation of Israel that comes to worship the Lord?

What about ALL of the other nations left on the earth? Will they NOT come to worship before the Lord? Of course they will....God's word says it. Let's read it together....

Zech.14
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So Isa.66 says ALL flesh will worship the Lord and Zech.14 says ALL nations will worship the Lord!

I'm sure those reading can see just how flawed this logic is!


And what about this verse? Just what 'group' of people is God speaking of here?

Acts 2
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Please tell the readers just which 'group' of people will ONLY receive the Spirit of the Lord!!!

And what about this verse? Which group of people is God talking to here?

Jer.25
[31] A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.

So please tell us.....which 'nationS
' is God talking about?

This is flawed logic!

Like I said......I know there are some just TRYING to find a way around what God's word is so obviously saying!!!

And whay God's word says is this;


[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


I know you don't want to accept it, but God's words are true!

There WILL be those killed for NOT keeping God's dietary laws!


.


.


Hey Eccl:



The fact that the Gentiles are in the Church (assembly) of the Messiah and in keeping with God’s eternal purpose is not the discussion here. THIS IS FOR ISRAEL, to show her the future glory in store under the Messiah for those who believe! Hell as we know it was not in the prophet’s mind!



You are taking something “out of context” and applying to Christians today who are in a “New Covenant.” Where in the New Covenant does it tell us to obey the dietary laws? Where? Show me ONE place? The dietary laws are in the heart of the Law of Moses. I am under the Law of Christ and ONLY Christ.

For me to think I have to obey the dietary laws, I have to reach back into the heart of the Old Covenant (Lev 11) and to read those laws and the penalties.



Have you ever “touched” an unclean thing? If so, you are in deep doo-doo.

If you did, then you will be cut off from “the people”(Israel), Leviticus 7:21.



You don’t even have to “eat” it, you must not “touch” it! Have you ever touched Jello or anything with gell? (Gell/jello has pork in it, that includes vitamins with gel and some cookies!)…then you are “unclean” and then you must go to the Levitical priest and be cleansed according to the law.

Worse yet, have you ever touched a dead person? (I could go on and on with this silly stuff.) If you did, then you did to see a Levitical priest.



Are you a Sabbath keeper? Most Sabbath keepers push this on their groups and other people. I am not trying to offend you, I am just curious.



Your servant in Christ,

Charles Jemeyson

cjemeyson@satx.rr.com

San Antonio, Texas



“Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future”


  • 0

#13
xander

xander

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 125 posts

Hey Eccl:



The fact that the Gentiles are in the Church (assembly) of the Messiah and in keeping with God’s eternal purpose is not the discussion here. THIS IS FOR ISRAEL, to show her the future glory in store under the Messiah for those who believe! Hell as we know it was not in the prophet’s mind!



You are taking something “out of context” and applying to Christians today who are in a “New Covenant.” Where in the New Covenant does it tell us to obey the dietary laws? Where? Show me ONE place? The dietary laws are in the heart of the Law of Moses. I am under the Law of Christ and ONLY Christ.

For me to think I have to obey the dietary laws, I have to reach back into the heart of the Old Covenant (Lev 11) and to read those laws and the penalties.



Have you ever “touched” an unclean thing? If so, you are in deep doo-doo.

If you did, then you will be cut off from “the people”(Israel), Leviticus 7:21.



You don’t even have to “eat” it, you must not “touch” it! Have you ever touched Jello or anything with gell? (Gell/jello has pork in it, that includes vitamins with gel and some cookies!)…then you are “unclean” and then you must go to the Levitical priest and be cleansed according to the law.

Worse yet, have you ever touched a dead person? (I could go on and on with this silly stuff.) If you did, then you did to see a Levitical priest.



Are you a Sabbath keeper? Most Sabbath keepers push this on their groups and other people. I am not trying to offend you, I am just curious.



Your servant in Christ,

Charles Jemeyson

cjemeyson@satx.rr.com

San Antonio, Texas



“Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future”



Well no wonder why you refuse to follow the dietary law. If you don't keep the 4th commandment you are already commiting sin against the Lord. So eating what ever you want would not make a difference, the same result will still happen. THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!!
I know who change the sabbath to sunday worship do you? Sunday is not the Lord's day!!! But that's another lesson. You have no exuce before God!!!! You have been told....
  • 0

#14
charlesj

charlesj

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 188 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, Texas

Well no wonder why you refuse to follow the dietary law. If you don't keep the 4th commandment you are already commiting sin against the Lord. So eating what ever you want would not make a difference, the same result will still happen. THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!!
I know who change the sabbath to sunday worship do you? Sunday is not the Lord's day!!! But that's another lesson. You have no exuce before God!!!! You have been told....



Hello xander:

I just posted "Sabbath Keeper Information" on this forum. Please read it.

I know all about the Sabbath, the arugments etc. I kept the sabbath, probably before you were born, and learned why Christians are not under the Old Covenant.

Keep your chin up, and may the Lord be with you as you study.

Your servant in Messiah,
Charles Jemeyson
cjemeyson@satx.rr.com
San Antonio, Texas

"Its not how many times you go thru the Bible, it's how many times the Bible goes thru you."

  • 0

#15
Eccl.12:13

Eccl.12:13

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts

Have you ever “touched” an unclean thing? If so, you are in deep doo-doo.

If you did, then you will be cut off from “the people”(Israel), Leviticus 7:21.


You don’t even have to “eat” it, you must not “touch” it! Have you ever touched Jello or anything with gell? (Gell/jello has pork in it, that includes vitamins with gel and some cookies!)…then you are “unclean” and then you must go to the Levitical priest and be cleansed according to the law.

Worse yet, have you ever touched a dead person? (I could go on and on with this silly stuff.) If you did, then you did to see a Levitical priest.

Are you a Sabbath keeper? Most Sabbath keepers push this on their groups and other people. I am not trying to offend you, I am just curious.




I must give you a resounding YES to ALL of the above!!!! And guess what? When I find I have done so I go back to see just how long I am unclean. For the most part it is only until evening. Unless it is the case of a dead body...then I would be unclean for seven days.

And by the way, the Levitical Priesthood has been suspended......for now!


Now that I have answered your questions, back to mine!


Can you tell me why it is God is going to punish some for NOT keeping His dietary laws?

You did NOT address who the '...all flesh...' was later in the chapter and in Zech.14!


Isa.66
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

So tell me, will it be ONLY the nation of Israel that comes to worship the Lord?

What about ALL of the other nations left on the earth? Will they NOT come to worship before the Lord? Of course they will....God's word says it. Let's read it together....

Zech.14
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So Isa.66 says ALL flesh will worship the Lord and Zech.14 says ALL nations will worship the Lord!

Again....who is the "...all flesh..." and "..all nations...", that will come to worship the Lord?

.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users