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Who Will We Rule Over In Heaven?

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#1
oberland

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Hi all,

The Bible teaches that those who are saved will rule, the question is who are we ruling?
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#2
veteran

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Hi all,

The Bible teaches that those who are saved will rule, the question is who are we ruling?



The "first resurrection" overcomers (Rev.20) will rule with Christ over the nations on earth.

Ps 2:7-12
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
(KJV)


Rev 2:26-28
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
(KJV)





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#3
Job one

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The "first resurrection" overcomers (Rev.20) will rule with Christ over the nations on earth.

Ps 2:7-12
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
(KJV)


Rev 2:26-28
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
(KJV)


I think that all should clearly understand that all current nation will fall and then be governed by the kingdom of God with Christ at the head.

Have you ever given thought to the concept that the meek shall inherit the earth?

What does that mean?

Does that mean that the meek will rule with Christ on this earth?

Does that mean that this earth will be renewed, by the cleansing by fire and become once again as the garden of Eden?

Dose that mean that eventually this earth will pass away as it becomes part of a "new heaven and a new earth" as the scriptures declare?

Does that mean that eventually, this earth will become our heaven?
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#4
rjp34652@yahoo.com

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Hi all,

The Bible teaches that those who are saved will rule, the question is who are we ruling?


The simplest answer may also be the most profound.

OURSELVES.

Do we really rule ourselves apart from Christ? No.
Between obligations and necessities as well as the occasional habit and addiction we are slaves to our own desires and decisions.

Nevertheless Jesus asks us to surrender all those things that enslave us.
In return He gives us the authority to rule ourselves. True liberty.

Liberty. That's one of those mystery words that nobody today really understands.

The crown of liberty. Is that a King's gift or what?

Edited by rjp34652@yahoo.com, 09 March 2011 - 04:09 PM.

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R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
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#5
archaeologist5

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Hi all,

The Bible teaches that those who are saved will rule, the question is who are we ruling?



i think you should do what Jesus said when the disciples came back from their first solo missions and were happy that 'even the demons obeyed them'. Jesus said, and i paraphrase here, 'be happy that your names are written in the book of life'.

don't worry about whom you are going to rule, just make sure your name is written in the book of life and be glad for that. as peter said in one of his epistles--'make your own calling and election sure'. in other words, don't sweat the small stuff confirm the important one.
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science is subject to the Bible not an authority over it.

#6
KingdomCome

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Is being the servant of all the way we are to rule?

Mark 10:
42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

When all are serving all, with the loving Word of God, is this the "rod of iron" that cannot be broken?

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Eze 6:3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Do we kill the enemy ("smite the nations") with the Love/Words of God?
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#7
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Is being the servant of all the way we are to rule?


A servant rules by DOING, not by decree.

Somebody once said that the true test of a servant's heart is to know how you feel when you are treated like one.

Any working man knows that real creation (or repair) as well as rulership is accomplished by those who get their hands dirty. The boss, who does little or none of it, usually gets the credit. That is not so in the Kingdom of God.

Jesus walked among us and showed us how to do His work - His way. To this day He works among us, in the petty things of life as well as the grand.

Unbelievably, He actually allows us to share the glory. Isn't that the finest example of a boss/ruler you could ever ask for?

Edited by rjp34652@yahoo.com, 25 March 2011 - 03:19 PM.

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R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
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#8
veteran

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I think that all should clearly understand that all current nation will fall and then be governed by the kingdom of God with Christ at the head.

Have you ever given thought to the concept that the meek shall inherit the earth?

What does that mean?

Does that mean that the meek will rule with Christ on this earth?



Some don't like it when I answer a question with a question, but ... that's how our Lord Jesus often did it. Who is to inherit the earth with our Lord Jesus? That's your answer about the meek. The Biblical idea of being 'meek' is about being humble. It's the direct opposite of being haughty. It's not about being weak spiritually nor physically. It's about loving righteousness and peace and having good will to all men, i.e., being good natured. It does not mean a pascifist, which is how some like to define it. The meek have righteous indignation against evil too, just as our Heavenly Father has.


Does that mean that this earth will be renewed, by the cleansing by fire and become once again as the garden of Eden?


Renewed is a very accurate idea from Isaiah about the new heavens and a new earth. Doesn't mean this earth is going to be turned into an asteroid belt. It means a cleansing, a renewal, kind of like a revival. Peter compared the final cleansing by fire with the previous cleansing by a flood. God said He would never use a flood of waters to do that again. The next one is by His Fire, a supernatural Fire upon this earth. It will literally melt man's works off it. This earth is forever as God's Word says.

Dose that mean that eventually this earth will pass away as it becomes part of a "new heaven and a new earth" as the scriptures declare?


The surface of this earth is going to wiped clean. It will be more thorough than what the flood of Noah's day did. God gives some hints of what it's going to be like. But that requires a lot of Bible study, as it should, including going into the manuscripts. It apparently is something not everyone is given to understand yet. Don't ask me why that is. I can only say the reason I think that is; it's about studying to show ourselves approved of God, like Apostle Paul told Timothy. Not everyone is given the urge to go to that level of Bible study, nor does everyone need to. But I do think it is a matter given to God's called pastors who are supposed to feed His sheep.



Does that mean that eventually, this earth will become our heaven?


You're a lot closer than you know.

I've found many have problems with abstract thought they haven't anything in this present world to compare with. That's one of the problems with trying to understand the Heavenly dimension. If you look at a square box you'll see a maximum of 3 sides at one time. Our present world is 3-dimensional. But if you hold that same box up to a mirror, you'll be able to see all 6 sides at once. God's Word reveals this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension will manifest together at the same time, kind of like the box, in the same space. Examples of that in God's Word is with the manifestation of angels on earth in presence of God's servants. A major example was our Lord Jesus after His Resurrection appearing to His disciples in a closed room, the doors and windows closed.

This is what the 'change' at "the twinkling of an eye" is about that Paul spoke of in 1 Cor.15. At Christ's coming on that "last trump", all still alive on earth will be changed, and the Heavenly dimension opened up, revealed to them. Paul was teaching that from Isaiah 25, which uses the idea of a veil being removed off the eyes. When that happens, we all will understand how the Heavenly dimension has been here all along, but hidden behind a veil. Many things we don't understand today will become naturally plain. So the Heavenly dimension is not about a 'place' we must leave this earth to go to. Where would that be if not on the earth also? To another galaxy or planet? No, for that would still be part of today's material dimension.


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#9
KingdomCome

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I believe we are to rule according to the following:

Mark 10:
42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1Co 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

Blessings
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#10
veteran

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I believe we are to rule according to the following:

Mark 10:
42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


That Scripture helps reveal a true ruler. Righteous rule means being a servant to all, ministering to the people. It means 'responsibility' to the people, not privledge of class. This is why God blessed Solomon's reign, because after Solomon had done God's Will when first receiving the kingdom from his father David, God asked Solomon what he wanted. Solomon did not ask for riches, but for wisdom in order be a righteous king 'for' such a great people as Israel.

Too often pascifist false doctrines are applied to how our Lord Jesus meant those Scriptures, sometimes even suggesting that we're not to have rulers among ourselves. That's not true, for He promised each of His Apostles would sit upon thrones ruling over the twelve tribes of Israel in final.


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#11
rjp34652@yahoo.com

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I believe we are to rule according to the following:

Mark 10:
42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1Co 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

Blessings


Well said.

Too often is it assumed that rulership means being THE BOSS of someone else. By inference, this means power OVER, not power BENEATH or BEHIND.

The power structure of planet earth has been corrupted for that very reason. One man gains advantage over another by 'rulership' and in effect causes his neighbor or brother to be socially, intellectually, physically and spiritually reduced.

Much of what Jesus taught was by way of encouragment and by retrieving the wreckage of humanity. He established Himself as the chief ruler by being the servant of all.

To this day, nobody 'gets it' unless of course there is something that is begged for during prayer time. As soon as the petition is granted, the primary lesson is forgotten.

Power through service is a concept that is at once foreign and repugnant to human understanding.
Despite our voiced intentions to honor Christ's teachings on rulership and servanthood, we universally reject them.

Edited by rjp34652@yahoo.com, 30 March 2011 - 12:02 PM.

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R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
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Stabbed in the back,
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#12
aspen

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Mark 9:33-35


33 They came to Capernaum. When he was in the house, he asked them, “What were you arguing about on the road?” 34 But they kept quiet because on the way they had argued about who was the greatest.

35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said,“Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.”


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St. John says, "The light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness apprehended it not;" that is, the self-hood in its own will and working, cannot apprehend it; but in resignation the liberty of God shines in it. - Jakob Boehme

#13
veteran

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Well said.

Too often is it assumed that rulership means being THE BOSS of someone else. By inference, this means power OVER, not power BENEATH or BEHIND.

The power structure of planet earth has been corrupted for that very reason. One man gains advantage over another by 'rulership' and in effect causes his neighbor or brother to be socially, intellectually, physically and spiritually reduced.

Much of what Jesus taught was by way of encouragment and by retrieving the wreckage of humanity. He established Himself as the chief ruler by being the servant of all.

To this day, nobody 'gets it' unless of course there is something that is begged for during prayer time. As soon as the petition is granted, the primary lesson is forgotten.

Power through service is a concept that is at once foreign and repugnant to human understanding.
Despite our voiced intentions to honor Christ's teachings on rulership and servanthood, we universally reject them.



When our Lord Jesus said His saints who overcome will rule with Him over the nations with a rod of iron, that was exactly what He meant. There will be some in that time that won't like it, just as there are today.

Ideology against the concept of rulership and power of rule over others was one of the problems Satan had, since he wanted to rule in God's Place instead (and still does want to).

Reality is that there must exist someone in authority, and God is in absolute authority and power. Even His use of the family concept as our Heavenly 'Father' reveals that.

The anarchy idealism some have today will no longer exist in that future time of Christ's reign.


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#14
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When our Lord Jesus said His saints who overcome will rule with Him over the nations with a rod of iron, that was exactly what He meant. There will be some in that time that won't like it, just as there are today.

Ideology against the concept of rulership and power of rule over others was one of the problems Satan had, since he wanted to rule in God's Place instead (and still does want to).

Reality is that there must exist someone in authority, and God is in absolute authority and power. Even His use of the family concept as our Heavenly 'Father' reveals that.

The anarchy idealism some have today will no longer exist in that future time of Christ's reign.



"And Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it is not so among you: but whosoever would become great among you, shall be your minister: and whosoever would be first among you, shall be servant of all. For verily the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
Mark 10:42-45

These are the words of Christ. Those who rule shall be servants.

Where is it written that a servant shall carry a rod of iron (a gun?)? Please supply chapter and verse.

You are correct in that satan works to rule. What sort of rule does it employ? The rule OVER men. Christ rules as SERVANT. Big difference.

Those who wish to rule OVER men have believed a lie of the enemy. It rules by coercion, lies and by stealing authority into itself. When it has the authority to act it uses force to destroy men and their works. Since it cannot subvert the Kingdom of God, it has fallen to doing so with that which was given to man. Christ comes to partly restore authority to man, with the caveat that we work with Him.

Edited by rjp34652@yahoo.com, 05 April 2011 - 10:34 AM.

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R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back,
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#15
KingdomCome

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Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Eze 6:3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God...

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The way I see it is that the Word of God is the Sword of the Spirit (Eph 6:17 above) and the absolute truth which cannot be broken, that is, I understand the Word of God, coming out of the mouth of Christ Jesus, to be the Rod of Iron. Moreover, I see the two edged sword as the sword of man. I see, that while God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are destroying our high places (the thoughts of fallen man) with the Word of God, we are given Eternal Life via their servanthood. The two edged sword has no power to give life to our fellows.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There is only one way to rule the world — we are to serve man by giving life (the words of Christ Jesus) to all — even by loving our enemies as Christ Jesus did for us.

Eph 4:
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The body of Christ (in the last day, all who reside on the earth and in heaven) rules itself via the edification of God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Blessings to all...

Edited by KingdomCome, 06 April 2011 - 09:35 AM.

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#16
rjp34652@yahoo.com

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KingdomCome:

Your post is well researched and written, but your attitude seems to be conflicted.

On the one hand you write about swords and rods and severe rulership while on the other you acknowledge service as a possible alternative.

My life has been guided by Christ to one of service. That's a fact.

I've spent my entire adult life in full time service of one sort or another; to my country, to my church, to my community and to my family.

I do not own nor do I practice using a gun, a sword or a rod of any kind against any man (although IMO there are a few politicans that deserve a beating).

When I stand before Christ at the last day - the blessings of continued and expanded service will be more than I could ever ask for....
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R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back,
forsaken by all.

#17
KingdomCome

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KingdomCome:

Your post is well researched and written, but your attitude seems to be conflicted.

On the one hand you write about swords and rods and severe rulership while on the other you acknowledge service as a possible alternative.

My life has been guided by Christ to one of service. That's a fact.

I've spent my entire adult life in full time service of one sort or another; to my country, to my church, to my community and to my family.

I do not own nor do I practice using a gun, a sword or a rod of any kind against any man (although IMO there are a few politicans that deserve a beating).

When I stand before Christ at the last day - the blessings of continued and expanded service will be more than I could ever ask for....


Christ Jesus spoke in parables.

Matt 13:34-35 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

When we look for the meaning of words, in the Words of God, we find that Christ Jesus and the prophets and apostles spoke with the words of man but with a heavenly meaning.

The sword is the Words of God that kills the thoughts of fallen man, and by so doing, gives man eternal life if he will believe.

Isa 28:
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

Blessings
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