373 replies to this topic

[mcorba]

...so why do so many worship on Sunday, the first day of the week?

[dan p]

...so why do so many worship on Sunday, the first day of the week?

Hi , because the Sabbath was given to Israel .

Anyone caught working on the Sabbath and even fixing food to eat , OR walking more than a Sabbath day journey , was guilty and could be killed , dan p

Edited by dan p, 18 November 2011 - 03:13 PM.

[James Forthwright]

...so why do so many worship on Sunday, the first day of the week?

Because it's easier to follow Church tradition (one hour of church service) than to follow Christ's example and the Ten Commandments. There is certainly nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday (or any other day of the week) but the seventh day Sabbath (from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) was instituted by God as an entire day of rest and dedication to spiritual pursuits and was intended to be a blessing for mankind.

Modern man, apparently, has more important interests. . . "How 'bout dem Packers!"

Edited by James Forthwright, 18 November 2011 - 07:48 PM.

[BiggAndyy]

Why does it matter to you Mr.Cobra?

[James Forthwright]

Hi , because the Sabbath was given to Israel .

So, as Christians begin to identify themselves as true Israelites, they should, likewise, begin to honor the Sabbath day.

Anyone caught working on the Sabbath and even fixing food to eat , OR walking more than a Sabbath day journey , was guilty and could be killed , dan p

The Sabbath was intended as a divine "blessing" for mankind (Gen. 2:2-3, Isa. 58:13-14) It is the 'curse of the Law' (or legalistic mindset & punishments) that have been removed, NOT one of the Ten Commandments.

[Insight]

The Sabbath principles

[Prentis]

I see no necessity in meeting a specific day... As a matter of fact, the New Testament principle is to meet every day!

Edited by Prentis, 19 November 2011 - 11:52 PM.

[Insight]

I see no necessity in meeting a specific day... As a matter of fact, the New Testament principle is to meet every day!

I agree with you here Prentis.

I believe "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come." (1 Corinthians 11:26)

[jiggyfly]

The Sabbath was intended as a divine "blessing" for mankind (Gen. 2:2-3, Isa. 58:13-14) It is the 'curse of the Law' (or legalistic mindset & punishments) that have been removed, NOT one of the Ten Commandments.

Have you read 2Corinthians 3?

[mcorba]

It matters to me (and us as the Body of Christ) because we are meant to follow biblical instruction and if we are celebrating the Sabbath in wrong day we are going against Christ's words and the actual Commandment too!

[Insight]

You may like to read this post / discussion on similar subject.

The Sabbath principles

Christians ought not to celebrate the Sabbath...as we Celebrate the Lord of the Sabbath.

[Selene]

...so why do so many worship on Sunday, the first day of the week?

Why do most Christians celebrate on Sunday? Because Christ gave us something much better.....a new convenant, which is much better than the old and which fulfilled the Jewish Sabbath.

First of all, the six day creation was linked to the Jewish Sabbath. This "six day" creation was linked to the Sabbath because the Sabbath has something to do with mankind's salvation. For in six days, God created everything and on the seventh day, He rested. God consecrated the seventh day and made it holy. And on the seventh day, the Israelites are to rest and not do work. One of the Ten Commandments that was given to Moses concerns the Sabbath Day (See Exodus 20:8-11).

Secondly, of all the Ten Commandments, it was only the Fourth Commandment (Sabbath) that God gave a reason why the Israelites should keep it. God never gave a reason as to why we should not murder, steal, or commit adultery because the reason was already understood. However, only the Fourth Commandment, which is the Sabbath, God gave a reason as to why the Israelites should keep it holy.

Finally, the Sabbath of the Christians is not the same as the Jews. For Christians, they are no longer under the Old Covenant. They are now under the New Covenant. This New Covenant brought fourth a new Sabbath for Christians, which is Sunday.....the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead. It was on Sunday when Christ ascended to Heaven. It was Sunday when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and His disciples, and it was on Sunday when the Apostles "broke bread" with each other. Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.....and Sunday was linked to a NEW CREATION. It was in Christ Jesus that Christians were made into a new creation and we became a new creature in Christ's death and resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new.

As Christians, we no longer belong to the Old Creation (a creation linked to the Sabbath), we belong to the New Creation (a creation linked to Christ's death and resurrection). We follow Christ who is the end of the law and the Lord of the Sabbath (Romans 10:4 and Mark 2:28, Matthew 12:8, and Luke 6:5). In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ: ^"Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. (St. Ignatius of Antioch).

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,

Edited by Selene, 20 November 2011 - 07:29 PM.

[FHII]

...so why do so many worship on Sunday, the first day of the week?

I can't answer for other Churches or people, but let me give you my reasoning.

I absolutely agree with those who say it doesn't matter which day we worship. Any and every day is a good day to go to Church! By the way, I say that because you mentioned that many worship on Sunday. Realize that folks on discussion boards (this one and most others) tend to be much more dedicated. So when they say, "I worship everyday", I tend to believe them, even if I don't agree with any of their doctrine. The fact that they sought out a message board to discuss issues shows a bit of dedication, even if it is misguided by my standards or the Bible's. They are usually the type that attend some kind of Church function 2, 3 or more days of the week.

As for the Sabbath, which is Saturday. It is in the Law, which we are not bound by. However, like tithes and offerings, it does predate the Law. Heck, If we believe that everything was created in 6 days, then the day of rest was created in less than a week which REALLY predestinates the Law Moses brought!

Given that I believe that any and all days are worthy of Worship, I support the Saturday Worship Service. It certainly is in the top 7 days I'd pick!

However, how did Jesus feel about it? Jesus did break the Law of the Sabbath on at least two occasions in the same chapter of the Bible. That would be Matthew Chapter 12. He allowed the disciples to pick corn and cook up some food, and was questioned about it. He gave a reply, but his final words were that the Son of Man was the Lord of the Sabbath. Then, a sick man wanted to be healed on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees again questioned Jesus about it. He healed him nontheless.

Technically, Jesus did break the law, and it wasn't the only time. However, that is a point for another time. Jesus did however, respect the Sabbath. I am thinking of one time where in chapter 24 of Matthew he said, "pray that your flight doesn't have to happen in winter or during the Sabbath" [paraphrasing]. He still thought of the Sabbath.... He was the Lord of it, after all!

Swinging back the other way, In Galatians 4 Paul rebuked the Galatians as being observers of the Law, and in this chapter especially of beign observers of days, months, times and years. Overall, he was saying we aren't under the Law, and that they should stop switching back to Judiac customs, including the observance of the Sabbath. That, of course is debatable, and feel free to do so, but I can give scripture to back that up.

Next, if you are going to observe the Sabbath, there are also other rules. You can't work, for one. I think the Israelites rightly killed a man for gathering fire wood on the Sabbath.... I'll check that, but I remember something like that. Obviously, you couldn't pick corn, if you are going by the Law, nor cook it. I think you also couldn't travel more than 3/4 of a mile either. I'll check all those if you'd like, but I'm pretty sure there were heavy restrictions.

But, again back the other way... I think it's wonderful to look at the Sabbath and want to Worship on that day. If you are going to say, "God said to do it, thus it's wrong not to!" then fine.... You better keep ALL of the Sabbath as well as every other Law. But there is nothing wrong with keeping the Sabbath. But we are not bound by it, as long as we don't account for it (that is, worshipping specifically on a Saturday) as righteousness. You can claim going to Church as righteousness. After all, it's how we get faith! But it doesn't have to be on a Saturday.

So why Sunday (The first day of the week)?

Well, first off, because it's just as good as Saturday. I just said any and every day of the week is a great time to do it.

Second, because it IS the first day of the week. 2 Chronicles 31:5 (among many others) details something called the firstfruits offering. Now, it's much different in detail from what I am talking about. This was the day that they brought their first "fruits" (wine, calves, food, money, etc) of the season or year. What I am talking about is that Sunday is the first day of the week. Most people get a paycheck every two weeks, but some every week. If you are going to give an offering on Sunday, chances are the first thing you give (meaning the first thing you let money leave your hand) is to God.

Let's not leave it to a money thing. Sunday, most Churches have service in the morning. Mine is at 2:30, but all morning I am preparing for it. The first thing you do of the week if you go to Church is "go to Church"! That is a first fruit of you week, just by attending and participating. So when someone asks "what did you do this week?" you can say, "well the first thing I did this week was go to Church!"

Next, the first meeting of the disciples was on Sunday. You can look to John 20:19 for that. There were extreme reasons for this. First off, Christ died.... They were pretty scared for that reason. They were also scared because it was the day after the Sabbath and the bloodthirsty sabbath keepers would be looking for them. But that's when Christ appeared to them as a whole group.

Next, we go to Acts 20:7. Paul was giving a sermon that day and all the disciples (not the same ones in John 20, but Paul's disciples) gathered to hear him... Again, another event of timing. Paul was leaving the next day.

Finally, I go to 1 Cor 16:2. Paul told the Corinthians as well as the Galatians to gather an offering on the first day of the week. Unlike the first two reasons, this was not because of a special event. This was to be done every Sunday. This kind of goes back to the firstfruits thing I was talking about. Every Sunday, these Christian communities or "Churches" were to gather an offering. It wasn't to be done on Saturday.

I would love to know more of the History of this from a non-biblical point of view (I love history in general), but it seems to me that Paul believed in the firstfruits concept, and it may be that money was collected on the first day of the week. For whatever reason, however, Paul asked (I dare say, commanded) that they take up an offering on Sunday.

If that be so, since we are commanded to give an offering on Sunday, why not take the opportunity to worship?

That being said, I'm not such a legalist that I say it can't be done on "Wednesday" or "Saturday". But the spokesman, the ambassador and the servant of Christ originally did pick Sunday.

Furthermore, I have enough hell in my daily week. I like beginning it with Church!

Last point, and last for a reason... It is the least of my concerns. Most people have off work on Sunday. It's pretty nice that the Lord allows that choice. I'd attend Chuch if it was at 2 AM on Thursday! But thankfully, it's on my day off. Most other people have that day off too. God tells us to be givers. God's a giver too. He demands much, but he is also kind. Perhaps he gave us Sunday as a day to worship because he knew it'd be the day we can most conviently do it.

[BiggAndyy]

I think I'll go to our worship service on Wednesday... just to be different

[FHII]

Just as long as you give your best on Wednesday....

[BiggAndyy]

I can't help but exude my best at all possible moments, either awake or asleep. Just like my humbleness. I'm a million times more humble than thou art.

[FHII]

I can't help but exude my best at all possible moments, either awake or asleep. Just like my humbleness. I'm a million times more humble than thou art.

Reminds me of a Weird Al Yankovich song!

[BiggAndyy]

Just gave you a point for getting the quote right!

[FHII]

Cool... I'm going to party like it's 1699!

[marksman]

I see no necessity in meeting a specific day... As a matter of fact, the New Testament principle is to meet every day!

And may I ask, do you see no necessity to keep the other nine commandments?

If the NT principle is to meet every day, Can I ask if that is what you do and if not why not?

Why do most Christians celebrate on Sunday? Because Christ gave us something much better.....a new covenant, which is much better than the old and which fulfilled the Jewish Sabbath.

Does that mean the other nine commandments are not relevant?

This "six day" creation was linked to the Sabbath because the Sabbath has something to do with mankind's salvation.

Not once does the scripture imply keeping the Sabbath is crucial to our salvation.

Finally, the Sabbath of the Christians is not the same as the Jews. For Christians, they are no longer under the Old Covenant. They are now under the New Covenant. This New Covenant brought fourth a new Sabbath for Christians, which is Sunday.....the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead. It was on Sunday when Christ ascended to Heaven. It was Sunday when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and His disciples, and it was on Sunday when the Apostles "broke bread" with each other. Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.....and Sunday was linked to a NEW CREATION. It was in Christ Jesus that Christians were made into a new creation and we became a new creature in Christ's death and resurrection.

This is all fanciful speculation that is not backed up by scripture.

Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God.

Where does it say this in scripture?

As for the Sabbath, which is Saturday. It is in the Law, which we are not bound by it.

Does that mean we can ignore the other nine commandments?

Let's not leave it to a money thing. Sunday, most Churches have service in the morning.

From the evidence, this is a sacred cow that needs to be killed off as 90% of the population is not the least bit interested in Sunday morning ritual.

Finally, I go to 1 Cor 16:2. Paul told the Corinthians as well as the Galatians to gather an offering on the first day of the week. Unlike the first two reasons, this was not because of a special event. This was to be done every Sunday. This kind of goes back to the first fruits thing I was talking about. Every Sunday, these Christian communities or "Churches" were to gather an offering. It wasn't to be done on Saturday.

I think you will find that this is not correct. Paul told them to put something aside and store it up so that there would be no collection when he came to visit them.

Paul asked (I dare say, commanded) that they take up an offering on Sunday.

There is no such word in the Greek to imply a Sunday offering. Especially as the NT church was made up of Jews who remained Jews and they could not meet on a Sunday morning as it was a work day. Their day off was Saturday and they met Saturday morning in the temple and in their homes each day in the evening.

Actually it was Emperor Constantine who gave us Sunday. He made Christianity the state religion and to keep the sun worshipers happy and encourage them into the church, he changed the day of meeting to Sunday, when the sun worshipers met.

[rockytopva]

This was all started by the apostles...

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight - Acts 20:7

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. - 1 Cor 16:2

The first day of the week, Sunday, marks the day that Jesus rose again.

[Vengle]

You may like to read this post / discussion on similar subject.

The Sabbath principles

Christians ought not to celebrate the Sabbath...as we Celebrate the Lord of the Sabbath.

Yes, it is as if they do not fully discern the body of Christ.

We have rest in that body (his spiritual body). Is that supposed to be part time?

Psalms 132:7 We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool (which is the earth Isaiah 66:1).
8 Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.
9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.
10 For thy servant David's sake turn not away the face of thine anointed.
11 ¶The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.
13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
15 I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread.
16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy.
17 There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed.
18 His enemies will I clothe with shame: but upon himself shall his crown flourish.

Galatians 4:26 "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." Galatians 4:31 "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."

Matthew 11:29 "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."

[Selene]

Why do most Christians celebrate on Sunday? Because Christ gave us something much better.....a new covenant, which is much better than the old and which fulfilled the Jewish Sabbath.

Does that mean the other nine commandments are not relevant?

Christ gave us a much better law. He said that the two greatest commandments is to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and secondly to love your neighbor as yourself. These two fulfill all the laws and the prophets.

This "six day" creation was linked to the Sabbath because the Sabbath has something to do with mankind's salvation.

Not once does the scripture imply keeping the Sabbath is crucial to our salvation.

Yes, it does. The Holy Bible says that God commanded Israel to keep the Sabbath. Not keeping the Sabbath would be going against what God commanded. It is called "disobedience." Disobedience to God or going against God's commandment will not bring you salvation.

Finally, the Sabbath of the Christians is not the same as the Jews. For Christians, they are no longer under the Old Covenant. They are now under the New Covenant. This New Covenant brought fourth a new Sabbath for Christians, which is Sunday.....the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead. It was on Sunday when Christ ascended to Heaven. It was Sunday when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and His disciples, and it was on Sunday when the Apostles "broke bread" with each other. Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.....and Sunday was linked to a NEW CREATION. It was in Christ Jesus that Christians were made into a new creation and we became a new creature in Christ's death and resurrection.

This is all fanciful speculation that is not backed up by scripture.

Actually, it is found in Scripture.

1. God DID create a new convenant (See Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:8, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24). Therefore we are under a new convenant, and the Mediator of the New Covenant is Jesus (See Hebrews 12:24). Already in the Old Testament, God expressed disappointment over the Hebrew Sabbath (See Isaiah 1:13-15).

2. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead (See Matthew chapter 28).

3. The Holy Spirit descended upon the Church on Pentecost Sunday (See Acts 2:1-3).

4. After His Resurrection, Jesus appeared to the Apostles twice, each on Sunday (See John 20:19 & 26).

5. It was also on Sundays that the Apostles assembled together to break bread (See Acts 20:7).

6. The Holy Bible does speak of the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when St. John received a revelation from God and wrote the Book of Revelation (Rev. 1:10). St. John stated that he was in the spirit on the Lord's Day. The Lord's Day is Sunday.

Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God.

Where does it say this in scripture?

Jesus is the end of the law and the Lord of the Sabbath (See Romans 10:4 and Mark 2:28) Jesus Christ is the blood of the New Covenant shed for our sins (See Mark 14:24). Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant (See Hebrews 12:24). Why should I follow the Old Covenant when I should be following Jesus, our Mediator of the New Covenant?

Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath because it is only in Jesus (the Mediator of the New Covenant) where one can find eternal rest in God. It is NOT the Jewish Law or the Jewish Sabbath that will give us eternal life and eternal rest, but Christ Himself, who is the end of the Law and the Lord of the Sabbath. His resurrection (which occurred on a Sunday) is what gave us redemption and salvation. We are no longer under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant because our Lord Jesus Christ is the Mediator of that New Covenant (See Hebrews 12:24).

Edited by Selene, 23 November 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[Episkopos]

The Jewish sabbath is not saturday, but rather the first day of the week beginning at sundown on friday.

[FHII]

This was all started by the apostles...

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight - Acts 20:7

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. - 1 Cor 16:2

The first day of the week, Sunday, marks the day that Jesus rose again.

This is pretty much what I was getting at, yet with far fewer words, except of course the day Jesus rose (which I believe the Bible to say is Saturday, but we could hold that arguement off until March or April!) Thanks for the more condensed explanation, Rockytopva

[WISDOM CALLED]

Everyday is shabat for the LORD's holy healers. That is why Jesus was healing on shabat. The true followers of Jesus Christ are the healers and that is why in the scripture it tells you that those that make themselves and others holy are his family.

Shabat was never meant to be about worship or ritual.

Its meant to be about rest so that people can be in communion with the LORD. When healers are healing they are in sacred union with the divine.

Edited by WISDOM CALLED, 24 November 2011 - 08:34 PM.

[BiggAndyy]

Isn't this debate akin to arguing over how many angles dance on the head of a pin?

[RichardBurger]

Romans 14:4-13

4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.
NKJV

Edited by RichardBurger, 25 November 2011 - 01:42 PM.

[mcorba]

Well this is as clear as mud so far!

Is it scripture or not that Sunday is the new covenant Lord's Day, replacing Sabbath from late Friday to Saturday evening?

[RichardBurger]

Well this is as clear as mud so far!

Is it scripture or not that Sunday is the new covenant Lord's Day, replacing Sabbath from late Friday to Saturday evening?

The scriptures says what they say. Don't you believe them?

6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.