77 replies to this topic

[elysian]

Instead of men and women, it's men and men or women and women. Why is that sinful? I can understand murder, rape etc. being sinful because they involve hurting others. But how is homosexuality sinful when no one gets hurt?

Edited by elysian, 17 January 2012 - 03:08 AM.

[HollyRock]

But it is hurting people, even the people who practice it. It is totally unnatural and breaks down the moral and spritual fiber of family and society. It causes confusion to little ones and is a slap in the face of God. So yes, homosexuality does hurt because it unleashes God's judgements on the Earth.

[Rach]

I think when we try and break things down too much, we're bound to get confused. It's wrong because God says it is. That's it. He knows why, and if He is truly our God, whom we love and respect, we need to know He has our interests in heart, and that our lives will be infinitely better by following Him and trusting in Him.
To often today's Christianity thinks that God is noting more than a very powerful wizard. Highly powerful, but still subject to the moral standards that we ourselves are held to. This is not so. God is not human, He is the eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God. He made everything, including us. The only insanity is the thought that we should have the right to make judgement calls on the rules He gives us, especially after He's told us He loves us.

[elysian]

But it is hurting people, even the people who practice it. It is totally unnatural and breaks down the moral and spritual fiber of family and society. It causes confusion to little ones and is a slap in the face of God. So yes, homosexuality does hurt because it unleashes God's judgements on the Earth.

How is it hurting ppl who practice it, and how is it unnatural? And 'how' to all other assertions you've made. My point is, in acts like murder and rape, it is rather clear-cut. There is an aggressor and a victim, but no such thing exists in homosexuality.

[Lively Stone]

How is it hurting ppl who practice it, and how is it unnatural? And 'how' to all other assertions you've made. My point is, in acts like murder and rape, it is rather clear-cut. There is an aggressor and a victim, but no such thing exists in homosexuality.

Tell us how addiction of any sort is good for anyone.

[HollyRock]

How is it hurting ppl who practice it, and how is it unnatural? And 'how' to all other assertions you've made. My point is, in acts like murder and rape, it is rather clear-cut. There is an aggressor and a victim, but no such thing exists in homosexuality.

I think it's best for you to seek God about it in Romans 1...it can explain it better than I can...God bless you

I think when we try and break things down too much, we're bound to get confused. It's wrong because God says it is. That's it. He knows why, and if He is truly our God, whom we love and respect, we need to know He has our interests in heart, and that our lives will be infinitely better by following Him and trusting in Him.
To often today's Christianity thinks that God is noting more than a very powerful wizard. Highly powerful, but still subject to the moral standards that we ourselves are held to. This is not so. God is not human, He is the eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God. He made everything, including us. The only insanity is the thought that we should have the right to make judgement calls on the rules He gives us, especially after He's told us He loves us.

No one could have said that better...thanks Rach

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But how is homosexuality sinful when no one gets hurt? ... How is it hurting ppl who practice it, and how is it unnatural?

Doesn't life itself teach you that if you go the wrong way down a one-way street you'll get a ticket?

Edited by HeRoseFromTheDead, 17 January 2012 - 06:44 AM.

[HollyRock]

Doesn't life itself teach you that if you go the wrong way down a one-way street you'll get a ticket?

Amen !!!

[elysian]

Tell us how addiction of any sort is good for anyone.

What's that got to do with the topic?

Doesn't life itself teach you that if you go the wrong way down a one-way street you'll get a ticket?

I am asking why it's wrong when it doesn't hurt people. Long time ago, racism was justified by using the Bible itself as an excuse. But as people matured, that attitude changed. Maybe, the same thing will happen with respect to homosexuality.

[veteran]

It is a sinful practice, and it does hurt people. It is a practice of leaving the natural use of the sexual function man and woman were designed with. It's why no offspring can be produced by the unnatural use of the sexual organs. And because offspring cannot be produced with it, to maintain the practice in society others must be led into it or be forced into it, which is... rape and does... hurt people.


Rom 1:26-27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
(KJV)

Edited by veteran, 17 January 2012 - 09:13 AM.

[BiggAndyy]

Eli, you are either a liberal or a libertarian... but in the end that does not matter. The rule of law means very little to either of those catagories. To the liberal it is the "law of convenience" (I want it, I want it now, and I don't care how I get it) and to the libertarian it is the "end of my nose" rule (whatever happens past the end of my nose doesn't matter). Both parties chaffe under the perceived impingments to their "rights" and "freedoms" by the concept of a Rule of Law.

Not going anywhere with this post, just illustrating the difference between the two concepts (American Liberalism/Socialism vs. Libertarianism) over and against what the Bible and a Constitutional Republic teach.

[Angelina]

God created Adam and Eve in the beginning, to multiply and fill the earth. The bible says that the two became one flesh. [married]

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Homosexuality, fornication, adultery and sexual immorality are sinful acts against our own bodies and are not sanctioned under God's original plan of marriage or the sanctity of the marriage bed. Hebrews 13:4

As believers, the bible says that Jesus has cleansed us from sin by his precious blood that was shed for us on the cross. This sacrifice was payment in full from having to pay the penalty ourselves, which is death. Since Jesus paid that penalty, we are no-longer our own. Our bodies belong to God and we cannot do what ever we desire with it...

1 Corinthians 6
¹³ Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. ¹⁴ And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
¹⁵ Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! ¹⁶ Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” ¹⁷ But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
¹⁸ Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

The bible says that the Holy Spirit will come and dwell in those who confess that he is Lord and believe in him by faith. Romans 10:8, 9, 10, Acts 2:38, Ephesians 1:13.

¹⁹ Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? ²⁰ For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.


Shalom!!!

[veteran]

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(KJV)

Pop Christianity often strays away from Holy Writ and confuses just what sin is covered by Christ's Blood for those who first come to Christ Jesus and believe on Him.

It's for the remission of sins that are past, i.e., sin done from that point backwards, NOT sins that may be done yet future. We are expected to repent and ask Christ Jesus for forgiveness of sins we might commit afterwards, which is about staying in the Faith and in His Grace with walking by The Spirit and not by the flesh (1 John 1; Galatians 5).

[BiggAndyy]

Maybe your Bible ends at verse 25 but mine has a verse 26 also...

he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Seems that same propitiation is a continuous action, not a one time only event, that continues through to this very day.

However, this is not a debate on salvation but on the declared sinfulness of homosexuality.


Just Say NO to Thread Derailments.

Edited by biggandyy, 17 January 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Lively Stone]

What's that got to do with the topic?

It has everything do with it. Homosexuality is an addiction. There's nothing good in any behaviour that is a compulsion.

I am asking why it's wrong when it doesn't hurt people. Long time ago, racism was justified by using the Bible itself as an excuse. But as people matured, that attitude changed. Maybe, the same thing will happen with respect to homosexuality.

I know many people who are hurtung because of the sin of homosexuality. Families are in pain and torn apart because of it. Anything that is a compulsion hurts a person in his mind, and sears his soul, not to mention keeps him spiritually separated from God.

Racism has always been wrong and the change that has come has nothing to do with maturity. Man is just as sinful as he ever was, and racism has never been completely stamped out. What changed it was the power of the good, and I don't doubt the power of prayer of God-fearing people availed much. The same thing can happen with homosexuality, although I highly disdain the underlying claim that being a homosexual is comparable to being a racial minority. It isn't in the least.

Edited by Lively Stone, 17 January 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[elysian]

I am a conservative.

But I feel that homophobia is wrong. Besides, if God created us to multiply, why did he create homosexuals?

[BiggAndyy]

Since He treats homosexuality as a choice (warns us not to make it), your question is absurd on it's face since it flys in the face of scripture and science.

[dougishere]

Instead of men and women, it's men and men or women and women. Why is that sinful? I can understand murder, rape etc. being sinful because they involve hurting others. But how is homosexuality sinful when no one gets hurt?

Because God said so. There are reasons like the earth's population would decrease to nothing, children that are born wouldn't have a mother and dad. But if these answers don't suit anyone, "because God said so."

[elysian]

Since He treats homosexuality as a choice (warns us not to make it), your question is absurd on it's face since it flys in the face of scripture and science.

People are born homosexuals, they don't choose to become one all of a sudden.

[BiggAndyy]

Who are you going to believe, the Guy who made us all or the "scientists" with a political/social axe to grind?

[dougishere]

People are born homosexuals, they don't choose to become one all of a sudden.

People may be born this way. But it's their cross they must bear. I've got mental illness. It's my cross. I don't commit sin because of it, though. That's the way to look at homosexuality. It's a cross, you don't have to sin with it. If you do, then you're going down the wrong road. We all suffer affliction. This is one of them. You can retrain your mind by renewing it with truth from God's word.

So to answer the question, homosexuality isn't a sin in that you were born with it, but acting on the impulse of homosexuality is a sin.

Edited by dougishere, 17 January 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[BiggAndyy]

+1

[aspen]

the sin of homosexuality is over emphasized. Re-marrying after a divorce is also a sin, but it is hardly mentioned in our society or the church, because it can happen to anyone. The church has traditionally condemned sins that are minority sins like homosexuality and witchcraft to a greater degree than common sins.

Edited by aspen, 17 January 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[dougishere]

the sin of homosexuality is over emphasized. Re-marrying after a divorce is also a sin, but it is hardly mentioned in our society or the church, because it can happen to anyone. The church has traditionally condemned sins that are minority sins like homosexuality and witchcraft to a greater degree than common sins.

I'll agree with that, cause it's a good point, something I didn't put in my responses, but is very true. Me gossiping is no better than a homosexual having sex with another same sex person. Romans emphasizes we are all guilty. Immorality is immorality, too. Any one messing around? In heterosexual relationship? You're in need of God's grace to heal you as much as the homosexual acting out. And I don't have much more to say, since I lived much my life immorally.

[Lively Stone]

People are born homosexuals, they don't choose to become one all of a sudden.

That is the homosexual dogma, but it is false dogma. Everyone who is born is a sinner born, but that doesn't mean he is born with a pattern for sexual deviance. He is born with a natural tendency to do his own thing, which is to sin, but God doesn't hardwire us as something that would keep us from obeying Him. Homosexuality is an act of the powerful human will.

[Rach]

I am a conservative.

But I feel that homophobia is wrong. Besides, if God created us to multiply, why did he create homosexuals?

God didn't create homosexuals, sin and a fallen world did.

People are born homosexuals, they don't choose to become one all of a sudden.

We are all born sinful, every single one.
Can I ask whether your questions relate to gay's in general or specifically gay's within the Church. Because it's a big difference. Homosexuals who deny God and live a secular life, well, they're still sinning against the one true God, but the Bible clearly tells us we cannot hold them to a Christian's life standard. Indeed, they shouldn't be treated differently than any other sinner we are hoping may come to the truth and light.
But homosexuals within the Church...these are people saying with their lips that God is their Lord, master and Saviour, but performing acts with their bodies that deny that. Consider: if an alcoholic was a church member, would we allow him to attend church drunk all the time? Would that be considered appropriate witness for his confessed faith in a new birth through Christ? I don't think so. And yet alcoholism is also considered something that people are 'born' with or predispositioned to. The are well able to deny that disposition and move forward towards Jesus. To hold homosexuals to any different standards to them, or any other sinner in the Church...thievery, adultery, pride, religious pride...is sin itself, and is does nothing but harm the Church family and ultimately the gay person itself, because we are encouraging them in a sinful lifestyle that will bring them into the path of God's wrath.

[Angelina]

That is the homosexual dogma, but it is false dogma. Everyone who is born is a sinner born, but that doesn't mean he is born with a pattern for sexual deviance. He is born with a natural tendency to do his own thing, which is to sin, but God doesn't hardwire us as something that would keep us from obeying Him. Homosexuality is an act of the powerful human will.

I agree...just like any other sin in our lives. As believer's, we cannot continue to live in a state of unrepentant sin. As Jesus said to the woman who was caught in adultery...John 8:11, neither do I condemn you, go your way and sin no more.

Shalom!!!

[ZebraHug]

Instead of men and women, it's men and men or women and women. Why is that sinful? I can understand murder, rape etc. being sinful because they involve hurting others. But how is homosexuality sinful when no one gets hurt?

Wow! How low have we fallen! Since when did we stop reading our Bible? Obviously it started a long time ago!!! What's wrong with sleeping around?! Nothing from most people's view. If that can be justified, how about murder? Why shouldn't I murder? I'll tell you why!

Because God said so in His Scripture. If God declares something is sin, it is sin, whether we want to recognise it or not. The decision is yours.

(It really amuses me to see people go on about homosexuality. As far as the Scriptures state, it's sin, always has been sin, and always will be sin, no matter how many 'Christians' condone it. Sin has been punished, and will be punished without the remedy --- Jesus. Suck it up and get over it.)

Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

A simple answer in case you didn't quite get my post, Homosexuality is SIN because God said so, just like every other sin that dwells on planet Earth.

[elysian]

Did God really say that homosexuality is a sin?

[Rach]

Did God really say that homosexuality is a sin?

"Did God really say you may not eat any fruit in the garden?"