77 replies to this topic

[Lively Stone]

Did God really say that homosexuality is a sin?

This question is eerily familiar, hearkening back to the Garden of Eden and the conversation the Serpent had with Eve.

Here's what God has to say about it...


Leviticus 18:22 (NLT)


²² “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.



Leviticus 20:13 (NLT)


¹³ “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.



1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NLT)


⁹ Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, ¹⁰ or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

[ZebraHug]

Did God really say that homosexuality is a sin?

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Stupid question.

[elysian]

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Stupid question.

Where does it say homosexual? A general condemnation of sexual perversion is not a condemnation of homosexuality per se.

Besides, how is it possible to tell anyone that they're sinners because they're gay? Wouldn't that hurt their feelings?

[ZebraHug]

Where does it say homosexual? A general condemnation of sexual perversion is not a condemnation of homosexuality per se.

Besides, how is it possible to tell anyone that they're sinners because they're gay? Wouldn't that hurt their feelings?

I believe that Lively Stone posted some verses which make the issue clear without a shadow of a doubt.

Lev_20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Btw, what does effeminate and 'abusers of themselves with mankind' mean to you then?!

Ooooh, poor people. Forgive me, I forgot that we live in a wishy washy, love-everyone society! Or should it be called lukewarm?! It makes me sick when I hear people go on like that. Oh, the poor serial killer. He couldn't control his emotions and his hormones. The poor homosexual, he cannot conquer his fallen nature. I wonder what God thinks of such lame pass-the-buck actions!
Rev_3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
It's time to stop sitting on the fence. Either you are FOR God, or you are AGAINST God. I have more respect for ardent homosexuals than for the Christian that thinks homosexuality is ok, because that 'Christian' has just stabbed himself in the back big time.
I wonder how all the merchants felt when Jesus threw them out of the Temple! I don't care how big a fuss they want to make about homosexuality. IT IS AGAINST THE SCRIPURE AND IT IS AGAINST GOD. I believe the Scriptures, not the opinions of man. The multitudes in Noah's day didn't care a thing about God, in fact they were defying him. That never changed anything, because God doesn't change yesterday, today, or forever.

Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And help me out here before I choke, if homosexuality is not a sexual perversion, what is???!!!! Hmmmm, maybe bondage sex? Yeah, that probably fits the bill, but then again, maybe not, since that is usually a man and a woman! God forbid! How warped can we get!? How much more can we compromise and escape judgement?!

Edited by Groundzero, 18 January 2012 - 03:41 AM.

[aspen]

I believe that Lively Stone posted some verses which make the issue clear without a shadow of a doubt.

Lev_20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Btw, what does effeminate and 'abusers of themselves with mankind' mean to you then?!

Ooooh, poor people. Forgive me, I forgot that we live in a wishy washy, love-everyone society! Or should it be called lukewarm?! It makes me sick when I hear people go on like that. Oh, the poor serial killer. He couldn't control his emotions and his hormones. The poor homosexual, he cannot conquer his fallen nature. I wonder what God thinks of such lame pass-the-buck actions!
Rev_3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
It's time to stop sitting on the fence. Either you are FOR God, or you are AGAINST God. I have more respect for ardent homosexuals than for the Christian that thinks homosexuality is ok, because that 'Christian' has just stabbed himself in the back big time.
I wonder how all the merchants felt when Jesus threw them out of the Temple! I don't care how big a fuss they want to make about homosexuality. IT IS AGAINST THE SCRIPURE AND IT IS AGAINST GOD. I believe the Scriptures, not the opinions of man. The multitudes in Noah's day didn't care a thing about God, in fact they were defying him. That never changed anything, because God doesn't change yesterday, today, or forever.

Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And help me out here before I choke, if homosexuality is not a sexual perversion, what is???!!!! Hmmmm, maybe bondage sex? Yeah, that probably fits the bill, but then again, maybe not, since that is usually a man and a woman! God forbid! How warped can we get!? How much more can we compromise and escape judgement?!

psst.....your empathy is showing...

[BiggAndyy]

It is not a sin to be a homosexual, it is a sin to behave as one.

[Lively Stone]

Where does it say homosexual? A general condemnation of sexual perversion is not a condemnation of homosexuality per se.

Besides, how is it possible to tell anyone that they're sinners because they're gay? Wouldn't that hurt their feelings?

No one is a sinner because he is homosexual or anything else. A person is a sinner without Christ.

[Wayne]

I am going keep easy and dull.

Number one man on man and women on women. Where offsprings?

Number two you are born with it. That load bull crap scients made up, so homos don't feel so ashame of it. It like saying cooking is in my blood. No, it's not I train and work on to make my dream.

I am against the whole same sex crap because gross and stuff doesn't add up in the end right. I will be friends with people who "decides" to be homosexuals but I will not judge then on it.

[Episkopos]

People are born homosexuals, they don't choose to become one all of a sudden.

Homosexuality is brought about by a conditioning and negative reinforcement at an early age. Babies are not sexually awakened at birth. The root of the sin of homosexuality is the sin of those who condition the child....a violent father could cause a young girl to see women as a refuge from the world of men. An mother-abused son could likewise turn to men as their refuge.

In the end sin is just a great cycle. Jesus Christ is our only true refuge. The fact that we derive pleasure from certain false refuges, because it is possible to, merely reinforces our belief that there is nothing beyond the cause and effect world we have been conditioned to. Faith in God is the way out. Only God can straighten again what has grown up crooked.

[Angelina]

Homosexuality can be a hereditary sin. Just check down the family line a little and you will find others. The ancestor of the original sin has carried it through to his/her descendants as a familiar spirit. This can be broken by confession and repentance on behalf of the family by a believing member.

Shalom!!!

[Foreigner]

Where does it say homosexual? A general condemnation of sexual perversion is not a condemnation of homosexuality per se.

-- When comedian W.C. Fields was at the end of his life he was discovered reading a Bible in his hospital bed one day.

When asked what he was doing, he replied, "Lookin' for loopholes."


Elysian, you appear to be doing the exact same thing.
I assume you have read the Word, and if you have you see there is no ambiguity.
Yet you are looking for answers from men as to why you should have to abide by that Word.

Please mature.




.

Edited by Foreigner, 18 January 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[Foreigner]

the sin of homosexuality is over emphasized. Re-marrying after a divorce is also a sin, but it is hardly mentioned in our society or the church, because it can happen to anyone. The church has traditionally condemned sins that are minority sins like homosexuality and witchcraft to a greater degree than common sins.

-- Thankfully you have said more than once that everything you post on this board is your opinion and nothing more.

That distinction is important because your overgeneralizations are simply not supported by facts.

[Rach]

Where does it say homosexual? A general condemnation of sexual perversion is not a condemnation of homosexuality per se.

Besides, how is it possible to tell anyone that they're sinners because they're gay? Wouldn't that hurt their feelings?

Hmmm, hurt peoples feelings, or God??? Let me think....

But as far as 'sexual immoralitiy' not meaning homosexual, lets look at that. Sexual immorality is a junk drawer term for all things sexual that does NOT follow God's plan for sex.

But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2 ESV)

God made marriage for one man, one woman. Any sex outside of a covenantal marriage of one man and one woman, is sin and sexual immorality. And the Bible does speak more specifically to homosexuality in relation to 'sexual immortality' as well:

just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:7 ESV)

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV)

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
(Romans 1:26-27 ESV)

Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the Lord. (Genesis 13:13 ESV)
Then the LORD said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, (Genesis 18:20 ESV)
But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Genesis 19:4-8 ESV)

Clearly, the men of Sodom were not guilty of wanting to serve these visitors tea and to get to know them better. Nope, these men wanted to group rape the visitors. Lot, by offering his daughters (a shameful and sinful act in itself) shows the intent of these men was sex.

So, let's re cap. Sexual immorality is any sex outside a God ordained marriage of one man and one woman....homosexual relations apply to that. God indeed punished people for those sins. You don't call actions "wicked", "shameless", "unnatural", "immoral" and "unrighteous", unless they are. And as you note, it's not me naming them that, it's scripture and therefore God calling them that.

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It is not a sin to be a homosexual, it is a sin to behave as one.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

[ZebraHug]

If the homosexuals were 'born that way', we would see several things which we don't in society:

1. We would not have epidemics of homosexuality, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.

2. Identical twins would exhibit the same orientation.

3. It would be in a gene pool. Therefore that family that had that gene pool would be homosexual most of the time.

We don't see any of that in history. Other than the fact that God calls it unnatural, logic alone points to the fact that there is no such thing as a 'gay' gene.

[Foreigner]

You make very valid points, Groundzero.

I am still torn, though. I have a nephew who said he knew he was gay as early as Jr. High, but kept it from his parents until he went off to college.

He did grow up under an unsympathetic, almost abusive parent who always told gay jokes (my brother-in-law).

Since my nephew dealt with that almost from birth, who's to say that didn't impact him?

People I have met who have left the gay community, 'rediscovering their heterosexuality' said that one of the reasons they "went that route" was because of difficult childhoods and young adulthoods in a variety of areas.

The gay community was willing to accept them as they were and make them feel welcome and special. Many said it was the first time they felt welcome somewhere (anywhere) so they thought, "I feel good here. I must be gay."

For them, time proved otherwise.

[aspen]

If the homosexuals were 'born that way', we would see several things which we don't in society:

1. We would not have epidemics of homosexuality, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.

Homosexuality goes underground when there is instability, just like movements for minority and women's rights. When a society is unstable through war or famine or poverty, people become focused on the basics. So when homosexuality seems to emerge in societies like Sodom, Rome, Greece and Europe and America, it is an indication that the societies have been relatively stable and prosperous. Also, homosexuality doesn't just go away during difficult times - it goes underground.

2. Identical twins would exhibit the same orientation.

In the study by Buhrich et al., 95 pairs of male monozygotic twins and 63 pairs of dizygotic twins were assessed for present and childhood sexual identity, sex-dimorphic behaviours and sexual orientation. A significantly higher rate of adult homosexuality was found among the monozygotic than the dizygotic twins; the precise figures of concordance for predominant homosexuality (ratings 4-6) were 44% (4/9) for monozygotic twins, and 0% (0/2) for dizygotic twins. These figures were not explicitly quoted in the report, whose authors warned against ignoring the evidence "that sexual feelings and sexual orientation have a continuous (if skewed) distribution."

http://www.tim-taylo...es/studies.html


3. It would be in a gene pool. Therefore that family that had that gene pool would be homosexual most of the time.

Genetics doesn't always work that way. Look at cancer rates in families or down's syndrome.

We don't see any of that in history. Other than the fact that God calls it unnatural, logic alone points to the fact that there is no such thing as a 'gay' gene.

I really think the 'gay gene' idea is just media hype - genetics and experience lead to homosexuality.

Homosexuality is a sin because it is a deviation from the manner in which God designed sex to be; but sometimes making the best choices possible, while you are living with homosexuality is the healthiest thing you can do.

Edited by aspen, 19 January 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Lively Stone]

Homosexuality is a sin because it is a deviation from the manner in which God designed sex to be; but sometimes making the best choices possible, while you are living with homosexuality is the healthiest thing you can do.

There is nothing healthy about homosexuality: not physically, nor mentally or emotionally, and definitely not spiritually.

The healthiest thing one can do is to remain chaste or celibate. After all, homsexual acts are fornication as well, both being sin.

[aspen]

There is nothing healthy about homosexuality: not physically, nor mentally or emotionally, and definitely not spiritually.

The healthiest thing one can do is to remain chaste or celibate. After all, homsexual acts are fornication as well, both being sin.

I didn't say there was. But there are ways of limiting the damage. I am not sure you would be ready to become celibate because the Catholic Church doesn't recognize your marriage - why do you think people who are gay are going to follow a moral code they do not believe in?

[Lively Stone]

I didn't say there was. But there are ways of limiting the damage. I am not sure you would be ready to become celibate because the Catholic Church doesn't recognize your marriage - why do you think people who are gay are going to follow a moral code they do not believe in?

I have no right to expect unbelieving homosexuals or anyone who is an unbeliever to adhere to God's standard of righteousness. Those who claim to know God qualify for correction and rebuke.

[aspen]

I have no right to expect unbelieving homosexuals or anyone who is an unbeliever to adhere to God's standard of righteousness. Those who claim to know God qualify for correction and rebuke.

I agree that we have no right to impose God's moral code on nonbelievers. I also agree that homosexual believers need to know that their sexual behavior is not in line with Christian moral behavior - and it is considered sinful, but then what?

What happens next? The homosexual is informed and makes decisions that may not please the leaders of his church. What do we do next? What does he do next? How do we support this member of the body of Christ who has to live with this huge part of himself that is unacceptable?

I do not believe that it is helpful to tell a homosexual what he already knows - the message is loud and clear - and then expect him to become celibate.

[Lively Stone]

I agree that we have no right to impose God's moral code on nonbelievers. I also agree that homosexual believers need to know that their sexual behavior is not in line with Christian moral behavior - and it is considered sinful, but then what?

What happens next? The homosexual is informed and makes decisions that may not please the leaders of his church. What do we do next? What does he do next? How do we support this member of the body of Christ who has to live with this huge part of himself that is unacceptable?

I do not believe that it is helpful to tell a homosexual what he already knows - the message is loud and clear - and then expect him to become celibate.

People, homosexual and other, who refuse correction in the Body of Christ, according to the word of God, are to be warned of their waywardness and pollution of the Body of Christ twice, and after that, we are to have nothing to do with them. A church worth its salt follows this biblical instruction concerning the immoral:

1 Corinthians 5:5 (NLT)
Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.


Strong discipline, but it does work for many. If the person is a true beleiver, he will come around and lay down his addiction before the cross of Christ.

[aspen]

People, homosexual and other, who refuse correction in the Body of Christ, according to the word of God, are to be warned of their waywardness and pollution of the Body of Christ twice, and after that, we are to have nothing to do with them. A church worth its salt follows this biblical instruction concerning the immoral:

1 Corinthians 5:5 (NLT)
Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.


Strong discipline, but it does work for many. If the person is a true beleiver, he will come around and lay down his addiction before the cross of Christ.

It is devastating for most. The fact is, our cruel behavior towards homosexuals has fueled their hatred; rather than bring them into the church. they are wounding so deeply, they end up feeling rejected by everyone and God.It is hard for them to understand why God would make them gay and then hate them for it.

I think we are called to love homosexuals just like we are called to love other people we disagree with.

I have a friend who has run a street ministry for the past 20 years - he simply walks with the people he is ministering to - he does not judge or demand behavior change or reject them. The kids are allowed in the program until they are twenty one. After that they can volunteer or work on the board. It is a highly successful program because it is a model of Christ's love. Truly caring about a person requires us to step out of our comfort zone.

Edited by aspen, 19 January 2012 - 09:56 PM.

[Lively Stone]

It is devastating for most. The fact is, our cruel behavior towards homosexuals has fueled their hatred; rather than bring them into the church. they are wounding so deeply, they end up feeling rejected by everyone and God.It is hard for them to understand why God would make them gay and then hate them for it.

I think we are called to love homosexuals just like we are called to love other people we disagree with.

I have a friend who has run a street ministry for the past 20 years - he simply walks with the people he is ministering to - he does not judge or demand behavior change or reject them. The kids are allowed in the program until they are twenty one. After that they can volunteer or work on the board. It is a highly successful program because it is a model of Christ's love. Truly caring about a person requires us to step out of our comfort zone.

Cruel or not, people are generally ostracized by the majority for their sinful proclivities. They have an inner hatred toward the things of God to begin with to have fallen into sexual perversion, when we all have the basic law written on our hearts from the beginning. They have fallen into the agenda of Satan, and many are reprobate.

Many, however, are still so very hungry for the mesage of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and when we are obedient to God in loving them and showing them about Jesus and His love for them, they will respond by receiving Him. Admittedly, many Christians today have allowed themselves to be affected by the opposition which is of the secular nature and is very cruel. We must not allow that to happen to us.

You are correct when you say we must step out of our little comfort zones with these people! Jesus surely did!


.

Edited by Lively Stone, 19 January 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[ZebraHug]

I didn't say there was. But there are ways of limiting the damage. I am not sure you would be ready to become celibate because the Catholic Church doesn't recognize your marriage - why do you think people who are gay are going to follow a moral code they do not believe in?

According to the Scripture, homosexuality is wrong. No matter how strong the drive is, it is still sin and it will be punished. No homosexual is going to get into heaven.

[aspen]

According to the Scripture, homosexuality is wrong. No matter how strong the drive is, it is still sin and it will be punished. No homosexual is going to get into heaven.

If this is true, why should they modify their behavior?

Edited by aspen, 20 January 2012 - 02:33 AM.

[Lively Stone]

If this is true, why should they modify their behavior?

If they want to go to the Lake of Fire, then they don't have to modify their behaviour.

[ZebraHug]

If this is true, why should they modify their behavior?

Because we all have a fallen nature. I am not sympathetic to homosexuals. I don't give a damn whether they were born that way. Because I was born a human, with red blood, a descendant of Adam, infected with sin and a fallen nature. And whether I like it or not, I am damned for eternity! The only reason I can live forever is because God came to Earth as a man, and died for me. If homosexuals don't like, well tough. Because that is the message of the Scripture. Unless one repents, all will perish. No excuses are excepted.


Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[aspen]

Yeah, you might want to work on that empathy thing.....

What I am saying is - why should a homosexual accept a God who created him as an abomination and then despises him for it? Shouldn't he or she take advantage of the time they have here on Earth before they are sent to Hell? Even Solomon said with out a God we should 'eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die'

[ZebraHug]

Yeah, you might want to work on that empathy thing.....

What I am saying is - why should a homosexual accept a God who created him as an abomination and then despises him for it? Shouldn't he or she take advantage of the time they have here on Earth before they are sent to Hell? Even Solomon said with out a God we should 'eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die'

Correction: Solomon didn't say that without a God we should do that. He said that was what God intended for us! To enjoy what we are given.

Ecc 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

You have serious issues. God did NOT create homosexuals. Homosexuals have corroded the original plan of God. The same as it wasn't the original plan of God for us to sleep around. God made us, now it's up to us how we are going to use what he gave us. There is no such thing as the 'gay' gene.