205 replies to this topic

[Sabitarian]

I have read many posts about assurance of salvation and I just wonder if any of you who posted have any idea of what salvation really is, plus will you like it or hate it. In the millennial reign of Christ we are to have our own tree and vine, thus this means we will be farmers. For not coming up to worship the Lord we will be deprived of due rain in season or in other words we will not have enough to eat if we do not follow the Laws of God [Yahweh]. The laws have been since Adam sinned and God made both of them skins to cover them with. The first time an animal had to lose its life to cover our sin.
We all have read that you can not earn salvation; however there are Laws that you need to follow in order to be considered for salvation. And as I said already those laws have been since the beginning with no changes in them. NO, fulfillment is not a change, thus as Christ clearly stated He did not change any law, He merely fulfilled the sacrificial laws given to Israel after they came out of Egypt. And no circumcision was only modified from the flesh to the heart, thus not a real change, although God Had made it very clear many years before that the modification would happen. Circumcision was still part of the law just not of the flesh, as in the past. The Israelites had been subjected to pagan rituals for 400 years during their captivity. During this time many had followed the rituals of the land and had left the ways of God, so God gave them a way to be reconciled back to Him, through the blood of clean animals. Also many non-Israelites came out with them from Egypt after they had seen all of the things God had done to Egypt. They were subject to the same rules and laws as the children of Israel and accepted as being the same as Israel with all of the rights and privileges.
Yes there are clean and unclean animals today just as there were then, remember the laws have not changed. Pigs are still unclean to us and the proof is the fact that the first organ transplants were from none other than pigs. Their diseases will transmit to us readily. Shell fish have a scavenger diet and no good thing can come from a diet of refuse. So, when you order that Lobster, remember it has eaten the refuse of all other sea life all of its life. Yes, feces is part of its diet also.
For all of you first day worshippers you are following the pagan rituals of the Papacy and they laugh at you for doing so, as you are just giving them more reason to believe they are the ones in charge. 90% of all Christians will not receive salvation as they have no understanding of the Laws of God. The Passover is near and it starts the Days of Unleavened Bread, which are still to be celebrated in stead of Easter [Ishtar] the goddess of fertility or plainly a fertility rite. Christ-mass is also a fertility rite brought into Christianity by the Pope. He could not get the pagans to switch days of worship, so; he instead made it illegal, under penalty of death, to worship on any other than the first day of the week. At the time Christians were having many problems with the Jews and being persecuted as Jews also, thus they switched to first day worship. The line is still drawn in the sand, which separates them from God. The Tribulation soon at hand will be the end of god’s tolerance for first day worship. The mark is in Obama Care as the medical equipment section calls for a device to monitor your health and many other sections have a type II implantable device for that equipment. This link gives you the real information right from the Obama Care document.
http://social.patrio...idden-secret-in
Just for your education GMO’s pose a major problem for all of us and need to be stopped if any of us want to have children and their children to have children and so on. Genetically modified organisms or GMO’s pose a real problem for all of us as they change our DNA code. Pig farmers have testified that fed GMO corn pigs become sterile and cattle ranchers attest to that fact also. That is a good reason that I do not feed corn to my cattle, as I need for them to reproduce so I have more to sell. If the animals have their DNA altered and we eat them, what will that do to our DNA? All things are connected in our eco system as the food that we eat has digestive enzymes in it and we cook them killing the enzymes. Pasteurization kills all good bacteria and enzymes in the food that we eat, thus our gut has to make due with the leavings of the good things that we are to eat. If you do not heat over 110 degrees all of the beneficial microbes will still be there and it will have more bioavailability making it easier to digest. Raw milk from pasture feed cows has many benefits that milk from corporate farms milking thousands of cows fed on other than pasture do not. I drank raw milk for years with no ill side effects at all plus it tastes soooo much better.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

[Angelina]

Hi Sabitarian!
We are Gentile believers not Jews. The leaders of the day instructed Gentile believers to follow these rules Acts 21

²⁵ As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

We are also not to follow those who are still under the law because those who are under the law are under a curse. Galatians 3:10 but Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us...Galatians 3:13

The first covenant has become obsolete when the new covenant was made through the sacrificial blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 8
¹³ By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

We are part of the promise through Abraham by faith and not by the law.

Romans 9:8
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

Shalom!!!

[Sabitarian]

Angelina,
Surely you jest about this. Have you not read that Salvation is of the Jew? Or have you read that Christ did not do away with any of the laws of the Father?

Matt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
KJV

I am not a Jew either, however I do follow the ways of the Father as given to the Son and to faithful men who wrote it for our edification. As yet I have seen nothing that negates the Laws of the Father, plus the Son testifies that He did not do away with any of them, therefore they have to still be enforce. Do assume to teach other than the ways of the Father? I believe that is the way to destruction. I stated that 90% of Christians will not make the resurrection as that has been established from history and the Book of Revelation speaks of the apostasy in this country at the present time.
I neglected to give you the latest about the chip to be implanted. In scripture the mark is to be placed in the hand in all of the older translations, as I have an 1844 edition and my 1951 edition agrees with it also. The chip will be associated with all of your medical records, plus your financial information. Could this be used for all of your financial transactions? If you do not have one will you be able to buy or sell? Have a nice day.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

[jiggyfly]

Angelina,
Surely you jest about this. Have you not read that Salvation is of the Jew? Or have you read that Christ did not do away with any of the laws of the Father?

Matt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
KJV

I am not a Jew either, however I do follow the ways of the Father as given to the Son and to faithful men who wrote it for our edification. As yet I have seen nothing that negates the Laws of the Father, plus the Son testifies that He did not do away with any of them, therefore they have to still be enforce. Do assume to teach other than the ways of the Father? I believe that is the way to destruction. I stated that 90% of Christians will not make the resurrection as that has been established from history and the Book of Revelation speaks of the apostasy in this country at the present time.
I neglected to give you the latest about the chip to be implanted. In scripture the mark is to be placed in the hand in all of the older translations, as I have an 1844 edition and my 1951 edition agrees with it also. The chip will be associated with all of your medical records, plus your financial information. Could this be used for all of your financial transactions? If you do not have one will you be able to buy or sell? Have a nice day.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Have you read any of the new covenant scriptures from acts to revelation?

[Sabitarian]

jiggyfly,
I read through the whole Bible in 8 to 9 months and have done this for years now, so yes, I have read the new testament many times. They perfectly align with the old testament and 10% are from the old testament which makes sence to me.

[Angelina]

Galatians 3

Justification by Faith
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among youas crucified? ² This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? ³ Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? ⁴ Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
⁵ Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— ⁶ just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” ⁷ Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. ⁸ And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” ⁹So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.


The Law Brings a Curse
¹⁰ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” ¹¹But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” ¹² Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
¹³Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), ¹⁴that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The Changeless Promise
¹⁵ Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. ¹⁶ Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”^[who is Christ. ¹⁷ And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. ¹⁸ For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Purpose of the Law
¹⁹ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. ²⁰ Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
²¹ Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. ²²But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. ²³ But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. ²⁴Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. ²⁵But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Sons and Heirs
²⁶ For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. ²⁷ For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ²⁹ And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you understand what salvation is??? and are you a Torah Keeper???

We have not become Gentile believers through the law but by a promise given to Abraham by faith which was executed 430 years before the law came in. A covenant which would justify the Gentiles by faith in Jesus Christ, which God preached to Abraham beforehand [the Gospel of salvation]. Therefore, those who believe are son's and daughter's of Abraham by faith, heir to the blessings and the promised, Holy Spirit.

Bless you!!!

[Butch5]

I have read many posts about assurance of salvation and I just wonder if any of you who posted have any idea of what salvation really is, plus will you like it or hate it. In the millennial reign of Christ we are to have our own tree and vine, thus this means we will be farmers. For not coming up to worship the Lord we will be deprived of due rain in season or in other words we will not have enough to eat if we do not follow the Laws of God [Yahweh]. The laws have been since Adam sinned and God made both of them skins to cover them with. The first time an animal had to lose its life to cover our sin.
We all have read that you can not earn salvation; however there are Laws that you need to follow in order to be considered for salvation. And as I said already those laws have been since the beginning with no changes in them. NO, fulfillment is not a change, thus as Christ clearly stated He did not change any law, He merely fulfilled the sacrificial laws given to Israel after they came out of Egypt. And no circumcision was only modified from the flesh to the heart, thus not a real change, although God Had made it very clear many years before that the modification would happen. Circumcision was still part of the law just not of the flesh, as in the past. The Israelites had been subjected to pagan rituals for 400 years during their captivity. During this time many had followed the rituals of the land and had left the ways of God, so God gave them a way to be reconciled back to Him, through the blood of clean animals. Also many non-Israelites came out with them from Egypt after they had seen all of the things God had done to Egypt. They were subject to the same rules and laws as the children of Israel and accepted as being the same as Israel with all of the rights and privileges.
Yes there are clean and unclean animals today just as there were then, remember the laws have not changed. Pigs are still unclean to us and the proof is the fact that the first organ transplants were from none other than pigs. Their diseases will transmit to us readily. Shell fish have a scavenger diet and no good thing can come from a diet of refuse. So, when you order that Lobster, remember it has eaten the refuse of all other sea life all of its life. Yes, feces is part of its diet also.
For all of you first day worshippers you are following the pagan rituals of the Papacy and they laugh at you for doing so, as you are just giving them more reason to believe they are the ones in charge. 90% of all Christians will not receive salvation as they have no understanding of the Laws of God. The Passover is near and it starts the Days of Unleavened Bread, which are still to be celebrated in stead of Easter [Ishtar] the goddess of fertility or plainly a fertility rite. Christ-mass is also a fertility rite brought into Christianity by the Pope. He could not get the pagans to switch days of worship, so; he instead made it illegal, under penalty of death, to worship on any other than the first day of the week. At the time Christians were having many problems with the Jews and being persecuted as Jews also, thus they switched to first day worship. The line is still drawn in the sand, which separates them from God. The Tribulation soon at hand will be the end of god’s tolerance for first day worship. The mark is in Obama Care as the medical equipment section calls for a device to monitor your health and many other sections have a type II implantable device for that equipment. This link gives you the real information right from the Obama Care document.
http://social.patrio...idden-secret-in
Just for your education GMO’s pose a major problem for all of us and need to be stopped if any of us want to have children and their children to have children and so on. Genetically modified organisms or GMO’s pose a real problem for all of us as they change our DNA code. Pig farmers have testified that fed GMO corn pigs become sterile and cattle ranchers attest to that fact also. That is a good reason that I do not feed corn to my cattle, as I need for them to reproduce so I have more to sell. If the animals have their DNA altered and we eat them, what will that do to our DNA? All things are connected in our eco system as the food that we eat has digestive enzymes in it and we cook them killing the enzymes. Pasteurization kills all good bacteria and enzymes in the food that we eat, thus our gut has to make due with the leavings of the good things that we are to eat. If you do not heat over 110 degrees all of the beneficial microbes will still be there and it will have more bioavailability making it easier to digest. Raw milk from pasture feed cows has many benefits that milk from corporate farms milking thousands of cows fed on other than pasture do not. I drank raw milk for years with no ill side effects at all plus it tastes soooo much better.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Jesus said he had come to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, are you suggesting that He didn't do it? If He did, doesn't that mean their requirements have been met?

[Episkopos]

If we were justified through careful obeservance of the law, then why would we need a Saviour? The law has no power in it but to condemn those who transgress against it. So to preach the law is to preach death.

It is the Spirit that gives life and justifies those who live according to the higher law of love.

How could Jesus say that the two greatest laws (loving God and our neighbour) fulfill all the rest if other more calculated observances are required?

Edited by Episkopos, 12 March 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[Sabitarian]

I really get a good laugh out of all of your posts people. In the first place the bible has to be read as a whole and no single passage can be taken out of context to make it say other than the rest of the book. You are preaching another Gospel and Paul has told you that is wrong. If it does completely line up with the whole rest of the book, it is a false teaching. The New Testament does not say other than the Old Testament. Christ obeyed the Law of the Father while on this earth and you are saying that He taught other than He did? Are you saying that Paul taught another Gospel, heaven forbid. There has never been another day of worship other than the Sabbath and until He states planely that He has changed it I will not believe other wise. God does not make you use conjecture ot guessing about His Laws, as He makes sure that all have no doubt that a change has taken place. None of your posts make that destinction.
Ex 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV
If it is not laid out like this, then it is not a change, as you have to guess as to what possible meanings could be ment by the scripture. HE leaves Nothing to chance!!! All is evident without any guess work allowed!
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

[jiggyfly]

I really get a good laugh out of all of your posts people.

I'm sure that it's mutual, your posts are quite entertaining.

[Sabitarian]

jiggyfly,
I do my best! There are many who see and yet are blind, hear and yet are deaf, thus my job is to try to reach them with the message that God really wants them to see and hear. There are many blind guides here and the book of Revelation address them and I would not want to be in there shooes when he comes. There are many who if they will put forth the effort to understand will "Come Out of Her My People", as He clearly states. Of course this is Babylon the Mystery Religion, of which the Papacy is the chief proponet and her daughters the Protestant Churches who are still falling away from Him.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

[jiggyfly]

jiggyfly,
I do my best! There are many who see and yet are blind, hear and yet are deaf, thus my job is to try to reach them with the message that God really wants them to see and hear. There are many blind guides here and the book of Revelation address them and I would not want to be in there shooes when he comes. There are many who if they will put forth the effort to understand will "Come Out of Her My People", as He clearly states. Of course this is Babylon the Mystery Religion, of which the Papacy is the chief proponet and her daughters the Protestant Churches who are still falling away from Him.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Ever consider that you, yourself are blind and deaf?

[Sabitarian]

jiggyfly,
I use to be in that group until He spoke to me. You never get over that.

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Surely you jest about this. Have you not read that Salvation is of the Jew?

The scripture doesn't say that salvation is of the Jews, but that salvation is out of the Judeans. The salvation of course is Jesus who is the branch out of the tribe of Judah.

Edited by HeRoseFromTheDead, 12 March 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[Episkopos]

I really get a good laugh out of all of your posts people. In the first place the bible has to be read as a whole and no single passage can be taken out of context to make it say other than the rest of the book. You are preaching another Gospel and Paul has told you that is wrong. If it does completely line up with the whole rest of the book, it is a false teaching. The New Testament does not say other than the Old Testament. Christ obeyed the Law of the Father while on this earth and you are saying that He taught other than He did? Are you saying that Paul taught another Gospel, heaven forbid. There has never been another day of worship other than the Sabbath and until He states planely that He has changed it I will not believe other wise. God does not make you use conjecture ot guessing about His Laws, as He makes sure that all have no doubt that a change has taken place. None of your posts make that destinction.
Ex 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV
If it is not laid out like this, then it is not a change, as you have to guess as to what possible meanings could be ment by the scripture. HE leaves Nothing to chance!!! All is evident without any guess work allowed!
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

So God is actually a lawyer?

[TruthSeeker2012]

I have read many posts about assurance of salvation and I just wonder if any of you who posted have any idea of what salvation really is, plus will you like it or hate it. ...

Most of humanity from beginning, 6000 years ago, to end will hate the idea of heaven, in fact Bible says only few will find the gate to salvation and wide is the gate to destruction. The reason most of humanity will be lost is because:

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

That's why as Christians we should never push Jesus and salvation onto people because most people would be miserable in heaven.

That's why I leave Atheists and unbelievers alone, for they have made their choice to reject Jesus. They will either accept Jesus or not, in their own time! And most non-believers have already made their choice to reject Jesus. They hate the idea of God, they hate it and they would be eternally miserable in heaven even if you gave them a free ticket to enter. We have been through this before, millions of angels were already in heaven, yet they become miserable and eventually were thrown out of heaven!

Be happy for the Atheists and unbelievers, because they are happy being unbelievers, because that choice make them happy and I respect peoples rights to have their own free will and own beliefs. Besides, they would be miserable in heaven anyway.

God and heaven is not for everyone and majority of humans will not be there from their own free will. God and I respects their right to hate and reject Jesus. And even if they got into heaven, they would be eternally unhappy there.

If God forced Satan, his angels and all Atheists and unbelievers who reject Jesus into heaven, it would be eternal torment for them there.

Let the Atheists and unbelievers perish in their lies, because they refused to love the truth! They would be miserable in heaven anyway so it's better they are destroyed in the lake of fire when Jesus returns!

And remember, we have been through this before, millions of angels were already in heaven, yet they become miserable, and stood against God, and eventually were thrown out of heaven and they would be eternally miserable in God forced them to live in heaven! So even if you were able to get an Atheist or unbeliever into heaven, after a short time they will become very unhappy there and not want to be in heaven! Have you thought about that?

God bless.

So God is actually a lawyer?

Read this, it will explain a bit to you:

http://www.biblejesu...-judgement.html

God bless.

Edited by TruthSeeker2012, 12 March 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[Angelina]

Hi Sabtarian!
The problem with your theology Sabtarian is that you and other keepers of the law, believe that Jesus only fulfilled the sacrificial law but he did not. The change was in the covenants itself, which required sacrificial blood on behalf of the testator [Jesus].

Hebrews 9:15.
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

A covenant cannot be changed without blood because the law requires that all things are purified by blood and without the shedding of blood there is no remission. Hebrews 9:22.

The old covenant is the law of sin and death ....as Episk has already pointed out....and this is the danger for those who follow the law...
If you break even one of the 613 laws under the old covenant, you break them all and become a transgressor of the law which means death.
You cannot then use the law of the Spirit to cover that transgression because it is another covenant entirely.

This verse shows the covenants that I am referring to, the Law of Sin and death and the Law of the Spirit.

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

This is the new covenant with the promised Holy Spirit. Jesus fulfilled the law by being without sin. Something that no human being had been able to do under the law without having to offer up a sin offering as the law required. He therefore became a sin offering on our behalf by faith and those who believe in him by faith, shall receive the free gift of salvation and the promised Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Blessings.

[TruthSeeker2012]

Hi Sabtarian!
The problem with your theology Sabtarian is that you and other keepers of the law...

Angelina, are you saying you are not a keeper of the Law and 10 Commandments?

Do you willfully break the Law and 10 Commandments?

May I ask you please... can you list all the Commandments out of the 10 Commandments that you willfully violate and break and believe God taught that you are free to willfully break?

You shall have no other gods before me. What about that command? Are we free to willfully break and violate that one?
How about this one...Don't take the Lord's name in vain! Can we now freely take the Lord's name in vain?
Or how about...Honour your father and your mother. What about that one? Can we now freely dishonor our parents?
What about you shall not kill? We free to kill?
Or what about stealing? We OK to steal now?
We Ok to commit adultery or falsely accuse our neighbour?
SO tell me... which Commandments out of the 10 Commandments are we now free to willfully break and violate?

Thank you, I look forward to your reply.

God bless.

Edited by TruthSeeker2012, 12 March 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[Angelina]

Truthseeker, I am referring to Torah Keepers...
please do not confuse the issues by adding another facet to this conversation.

Bless you!!!

[TruthSeeker2012]

Truthseeker, I am referring to Torah Keepers...
please do not confuse the issues by adding another facet to this conversation.

Bless you!!!

Angelina, can you please explain to me what a "Torah keeper" is exactly and what laws they keep that Christians should not keep according to God?

And does this mean you keep the 10 Commandment Law and believe Christians should do so? Or do you believe that Christians are free to willfully break the 10 Commandments?

Thank you.

God bless.

Edited by TruthSeeker2012, 12 March 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Angelina]

Angelina, can you please explain to me what a "Torah keeper" is exactly and what laws they keep that Christians should not keep according to God?

Torah Keepers are observers of the OT law of Moses. Some of their beliefs are that:
1. Yeshua came to make it possible for us to enter again into the covenant and not to free us from it."
2. All believers in Yeshua are called to become the body of Mashiach through the keeping of the Torah."
3. Those who keep the Torah to escape hell or to gain heaven are still under the law.

And does this mean you keep the 10 Commandment Law and believe Christians should do so? Or do you believe that Christians are free to willfully break the 10 Commandments?

Don't know what you are talking about. Gentile believers were not saved under law or by observing the law. We became believers by faith which God had made available through the promises given to Abraham, 430 years before the law came into existence

Matthew 22 says

34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The fulfillment of the law is love... [as Episk again, has already pointed out] this is the law of the Spirit.

Galatians 5
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, [Holy Spirit] you are not under the law. [of sin and death]

Shalom!!!

[TruthSeeker2012]

...Don't know what you are talking about. Gentile believers were not saved under law or by observing the law. ..

I agree Angelina, we are not save by observing the law. However, can you please tell me...do you believe Christians today are free to violate and break the 10 Commandments? Yes or No? If no, then do you keep the 10 Commandments? If no, then can you please tell me which of the 10 Commandments Christians are free to willfully violate and break?

In other words, which Commandment out of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break and teach others that it's OK to violate and break?

What about the first Commandment, thou shalt have no other gods before me? Do you willfully violate and break that Commandment and teach others that it's OK to violate and break?

What about the third Commandment, do not take the Lord's name in vain? Do you willfully violate and break that Commandment and teach others that it's OK to violate and break?

What about the seventh Commandment, thou shalt not commit adultery? Do you believe it's OK to break that one willfully?

Do you steal willfully and teach others it's OK to steal?

Do you lie on purpose and teach your children it's OK to lie?

Do you teach people and children that they are free to willfully break and violate all 10 Commandments?

Thank you.

God bless.

[Angelina]

You are mistaken. The law of the Spirit of life... is in Christ Jesus,

John 3
¹⁶ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ¹⁷ For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. ¹⁸ “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Matthew 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Romans 13
9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5
14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

not in the written code...

Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Ephesians 2
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Blessings!!!

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You are mistaken. The law of the Spirit of life... is in Christ Jesus,

Yes, he is mistaken. The spirit is the higher law we must obey. It is no coincidence that the law of Moses at Mt. Sinai, and the law of the spirit at Jerusalem were both given on the day of Pentecost. First the natural, then the spiritual.

Edited by HeRoseFromTheDead, 12 March 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[TruthSeeker2012]

Angelina, I noticed you completely sidestepped my question and ran and hid from it. You did NOT directly answer my question, why? Are you frightened off my question?

Now I ask you to do the right and honest thing and answer this question directly and honestly:

As New Covenant Christians, with the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, which Commandments out of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break and teach others that it's OK to violate and break?

Can you please list all the Commandments from the 10 Commandments that Christians are free to break now?

And you too please HeRoseFromTheDead, can you also please answer the questions.

Thank you.

God bless.

Edited by TruthSeeker2012, 12 March 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And you too please HeRoseFromTheDead, can you also please answer the questions.

Certainly. The fact is in Christ one is dead to the law of Moses, and is alive to the higher law of the spirit, of which obedience is resting in Christ's full obedience to the law of Moses.

Now concerning your little game you're playing in trying to entrap us in questions that have been answered over and over and over, my answer to you is, get behind me satan.

[TruthSeeker2012]

..
Now concerning your little game you're playing in trying to entrap us in questions that have been answered over and over and over, my answer to you is, get behind me satan.

Wow, I asked you some questions, and instead of lovingly and maturely answering my questions and focusing on topic, you have made it very personally and attacked my character, and falsely accused me of trying to trap you, and even accusing me of being Satan.

I had no idea my questions was going to make you so angry and so defensive and motivate you to resort to even claiming I am Satan.

I am very sorry if I have upset you and hurt you with my questions, please forgive me.

God bless.

[Angelina]

Hi Truth

Angelina, I noticed you completely sidestepped my question and ran and hid from it. You did NOT directly answer my question, why? Are you frightened off my question?

I certainly did not sidestep anything Truth...you are not understanding what I am saying... is it because you follow the law? BTW: I can see that you are indeed trying to incite an argument with me based on your post above.

As New Covenant Christians, with the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, which Commandments out of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break and teach others that it's OK to violate and break?

We are not under the ten commandment laws. Those laws are associated with the law of sin and death. The OT laws.
When Christ came, he did away with the requirements handed to those who followed the OT laws and became the High Priest of a new covenant. This covenant requires us to love ~ Love God and love others.


...Gentile believers follow the law of the Spirit. The law of the Spirit that I have given you in the above scriptures is "love".

Jesus said to a teacher of the law when discussing the commandments in Matthew 22
37 ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Romans 13
9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5
14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

When you love God and love your neighbor...you fulfill the entire law...[including those of the OT] ...love covers a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 4:8.
If you are a Judaic Jew or a Torah Keeper, you would not understand what I am saying nor will you ever until it is revealed in you by faith in Jesus Christ our Messiah! Again...the bible says:

2 Corinthians 3
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Galatians 5
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The law of the Spirit and the Law of Moses [which is the law of sin and death] are two separates covenants - not the same covenant otherwise Jesus would have died for nothing

Bless you!!!

[TruthSeeker2012]

Hi Truth
I certainly did not sidestep anything Truth..

But Angelina, you still did NOT directly answer my question, you are indeed sidestepping and hiding from my questions, why? What is stopping you from giving a DIRECT answer?

I will ask you again, but this time, don't try to change topics, dont' try sidestep, just answer please:

As New Covenant Christians, with the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, which Commandments out of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break and teach others that it's OK to violate and break?

Can you please list all the Commandments from the 10 Commandments that Christians are free to break now?

God bless.

[Angelina]

now you are being rude.... I did answer your questions and you chose to ignore it. I will not discuss this matter with you any further

Good day to you sir!/ or madam [which ever the case may be]