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Tithing - "How to" not "whether"

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#91
Axehead

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Is that all you have, Stan? In summary then, you are showing the readers that you have no scriptural evidence at all that the Apostles taught the law of tithing and you have no real understanding of the Scriptures. Not only did they not teach it as it is applied today, but they did not teach it, period and they certainly did not change the OT law of tithes and offerings into the hybrid that we see, today!!  Your theology on Tithing is based entirely on faulty logic and assumptions and your confusion/deception is obvious.  You display a complete disregard for God's word, treating it like your personal playground and have no understanding concerning the Spirit of Grace.

 

When you do a serious study of what the New Testament teaches about money, supporting the local church, underwriting missionary efforts, supporting the poor, etc. -- and contrast your findings with the teaching of the Old Testament -- you can summarize your findings with two words: PAY and GIVE

 

The Old Testament requirement of tithing is definitely a "paying" situation, not a "giving" one. Even the "Offerings" were required. They were not "offerings" in the sense of a spontaneous desire and decision to impart some of your assets to someone else. The OT Offerings were specific requirements of the people that had to be fulfilled according to very specific, detailed rituals carried out by the Levitical Priesthood in the context of Temple worship.

 

Everyone agrees that you pay something that you owe. It is a responsibility and a requirement. It is not a gift. On the other hand, it is equally true that a gift is not a requirement. A gift is something that you give that you didn't have to give. It is not given because you must. It is not given out of necessity. It is not given under compulsion. Otherwise, it would not be a gift. It would be a payment.

 

Let's look at II Corinthians 8 and 9:

 

Chapter 8

 

2Cor 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;

2Cor 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

2Cor 8:3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;

2Cor 8:4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.

2Cor 8:5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.

2Cor 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.

2Cor 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

2Cor 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

2Cor 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

...

2Cor 8:19 And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

 

Chapter 9

 

2Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

2Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

2Cor 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

2Cor 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

2Cor 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)

2Cor 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

2Cor 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

2Cor 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

2Co 9:14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.

2Cor 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

 

These passages of scripture are a perfect illustration of the fact that the new covenant is a covenant of grace, not a covenant of law. The Apostle Paul, in writing this passage, reveals that giving is a work of God's grace in a person's heart. And it is clear that what God is wanting is for His people to give of their own accord. He does not want them to give in obedience to a command. That would be LAW! He wants His people to allow His grace to work in their hearts, and give freely.

 

Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, drives a nail in the coffin of tithing. It is buried forever along with circumcision and every other aspect of Old Testament Law.

 

2Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

God no longer wants His children to pay under compulsion, but to give cheerfully. It is impossible for the requirement of paying the tithe to remain if God says that our giving is not under compulsion. If you owe it, you are under compulsion to pay it. The very act of paying tithes creates an act of "necessity" and 2 Cor 9:7, says "not grudgingly, or of necessity".

 

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot say out of one side of your mouth that you are not to act out of necessity, or under compulsion -- and then out of the other side of your mouth say that God requires you to pay tithes.

 

Paul does "urge" the church several times to be "liberal" (generous) in their giving. But generosity is a foreign concept to the law of tithing. A tithe is 10 percent, no more and no less. You cannot be generous and be under the law of tithes, (whether one of the three OT laws of tithing or all 3 of them). But, today's preachers say that is where "offerings" come in. But that is not right. Not in a Biblical sense, anyway. The offerings of the Bible in the OT consisted of detailed rituals that were just as much a requirement as was tithing.

 

God wants us to forget the requirements of the Law. He wants us to live in response to the working of His grace in our hearts.

 

"But shouldn't tithing be the starting place? Shouldn't it be the minimum?"

 

That would be like saying, "Shouldn't circumcision be the starting place?" "Shouldn't circumcision be the minimum?"

 

I think if this were true, the New Testament would have stated it, somewhere, just once.

 

The requirement of tithing has kept God's people in slavery to the Law and has kept them from growing in God's grace.

 

Also, the offering that Paul and his associates collected was a ministry of the churches. This was part of the ministry of the local churches. This was not some non-church organization. This was not some activity that was outside the ministry of the local churches. It was a vital part of the ministry of these churches.

 

I point this out because there would be some who would say, "The reason Paul did not appeal to the use of tithes was because this was a special project that was outside the scope of the local church." But, as you can see, that argument does not hold water!

 

The reason that Paul did not appeal to the use of tithes in this passage -- and in every other passage that he wrote -- is that tithing has no place in the life of a Christian. It is a part of the Old Covenant that has been replaced with something better, in the New Covenant.

 

The New Testament teaches that we are to be led by the Holy Spirit in every area of our lives. That includes the area of giving. The Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of grace", (Heb 10:29).

 

Tithing is a form of Legalism that must be opposed because it opens the door to other teachings of legalism in the Church.

 

 

 

Axehead I'm rooted in the vine not sitting on a limb.

 

 

I suggest you read Prov 1:7

 

They knew because ALL the leadership were Jews and it was an ancient practise BEFORE the OC.

 

 

Where is the evidence, and the trail of this new knowledge of tithing? When did it originate? NT is silent about it and the NT is what the Apostles taught the early church. 


Edited by Axehead, 07 April 2015 - 08:34 AM.

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#92
StanJ

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Axehead, all you're doing is repeating yourself and ignoring what I post so there is no reason whatsoever for me to address your growingly onerous submissions any further. No matter what I say you have deluded yourself into believing your perceived freedom in Christ allows you to ignore whatever laws of God you choose to. So be it.


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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:6 (NIV)

 


#93
Axehead

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Axehead, all you're doing is repeating yourself and ignoring what I post so there is no reason whatsoever for me to address your growingly onerous submissions any further. No matter what I say you have deluded yourself into believing your perceived freedom in Christ allows you to ignore whatever laws of God you choose to. So be it.

 

Everyone ignores the law of tithes and offerings in the OT, even you. I have never met anyone that kept them, not even the Jews, today keep them. They cannot, there is no temple. So, what law are you talking about and where might I find it? Show me the NT law that Christ and the Apostles want us all to obey and I will obey it. The problem is that you have failed repeatedly to show anything. You just talk into the air. 

 

Pretend I am a new Believer. Now, teach me the NT law of tithe and offerings. Surely, you have taught this before because you keep saying it exists. But where?

 

Where is the transition teaching from the Lord regarding the change in keeping the OT Law of Tithes and Offerings to the way we are to keep it, today? If the Lord gave the original teaching, then where is His teaching giving us a modified law? Because, according to you it has been modifed. But, I don't find this teaching anywhere in the ENTIRE Bible. 

 

I keep repeating myself hoping something will eventually sink in and you will realize that you really cannot point me to this teaching/law that you talk about. No where in the Bible can you point me to the modified Law of Tithes and Offerings. 

 

I do want to thank you for being part of this debate because as the antagonist you have played a really important part in this debate and have allowed me to bring up some very important truths. 

 

Axehead


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#94
StanJ

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Like I said Axehead, you don't get it. You keep asking the same questions that I have already answered in this thread. You didn't accept them, if you even read them, so there is no use in repeating myself. The sad reality is that new believers would be much more receptive to this issue than some older believers.

You actually didn't bring up ANY truths, important or otherwise. You just repeatedly asked the same questions and wouldn't accept the answers to them. For that I am not responsible. Hopefully I did make you think about this issue but this response makes me doubt it had any impact whatsoever on your POV.


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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:6 (NIV)

 


#95
Axehead

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When a teaching (How to Tithe) is built upon a false teaching (NT Law of Tithe and Offerings), you end up with another false teaching. The NT Law of Tithe and Offerings cannot be supported by anything in the Scriptures and consequently, "How to Tithe", cannot be supported. They are both false teachings of men that bring believers into bondage to men. As a new believer I recognized this simply from reading the scriptures and the witness of the Holy Spirit. Many recognize it is an invention of men instituted to meet monthly budgets and provide for buildings and salaries, but they can't admit it. The religious establishment tries to "Christianize" it and tell you it is from God as if to put some authority behind it. The problem with that is they then make it a law and tie it to obedience which leads them to engage in "Fear Preaching", Intimidation and ultimately criticism of the Saints. 

 

Since Melchizedek was brought up, I would like to touch upon him a little bit and set the record straight. Mel is abused all the time by the religious establishment so let's see what really going on. 

 

Part of this error comes from not considering when the Old Covenant ended and when the New Covenant began. When Jesus referred to tithing, the Law was still in effect. It didn't end until he died on the cross. Jesus was living during the Law and speaking to people who were under the Law.

 

Actually, Hebrews 7 has nothing to do with tithing in the New Covenant. Tithing is only mentioned as part of a comparison between the Melchizedek and the Levitical priesthood to show us how far superior a priest Jesus is.

The book of Hebrews proclaims the superiority of the New Covenant. It says we have a better hope (7:19), better covenant (7:22)(8:6), better promises (8:6), better sacrifices (9:23), better substance (10:34), better country (11:16), better resurrection (11:35), and better outcome of our faith (11:40).

 

It shows that Jesus has a better name (1:4) and better blood (12:24), and that we now have a better cleansing of sin, a better conscience (9:14), and a better relationship with God, entering the true holy place in the heavenly realm.

 

This is what Hebrews 7 is all about! Showing us by tying into all the other "better" verses, that we do indeed have a far better (superior) Priest in Jesus Christ.

The verses above, are all from Hebrews.

 

Hebrews chapter 7 is showing us that Jesus is a greater priest than any priest in the Old Covenant. The Holy Spirit proves to us first that Melchizedek was a greater priest than any priest in the Old Covenant.

 

Let's look at Abraham and the tithe that he gave. What are some characteristics of this tithe and was it habitual.

 

1. First of all, there is no scriptural evidence that God told him to give it. (very important)

 

2. God's original promise and eventual covenant with Abraham was based on faith, alone. Nothing to do with tithing.

 

3. No where in Scripture did God instruct Abraham to give a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek.

 

4. No where in Scripture did God ever instruct Abraham to give any tithe.

 

5. Abraham was already incredibly rich and he was not made rich by giving a tithe to Melchizedek.

 

6. When Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, it was the only time that he ever gave a tithe.

 

7. The scriptures do not mention anywhere that Abraham ever gave another tithe the rest of his life. (we see no evidence of this law of 10%)

 

8. The tithe that Abraham gave cost him nothing. It was on the spoils of the battle. It was not part of his personal possessions or the increase of his flocks and herds.

 

9. God's fulfillment to Abraham did not include a condition of tithing. God made Abraham rich in fulfillment of his promise alone, without any kind of tithing or giving.

 

10. Christian's have said that Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek is God's pattern for Christians in the New Covenant. There is no where in Scripture where this is stated.

11. Tithing had absolutely nothing to do with God fulfilling his promise to Abraham to make him a great nation, bless him, make his name great and that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. It was never mentioned except with Melchizedek and Abraham chose to do that only out of his spoils. 

 

Abraham believed what God said and acted on it. There were no works involved.

12. God made Abraham rich on the basis of faith alone. Tithing was not the reason for Abraham's prosperity.

 

Folks, from Genesis to Revelation, God has never been in debt to man and He never will. Our relationship with Him is based on faith alone. We approach Him and love Him, on faith alone. And He rewards us and blesses us on Faith alone. He causes our soul to be fat (prosperous). His grace is far beyond any natural comprehension we can attain.

 

When you read the Bible you realize that information about the most important things in God's economy are not held back from us. They are revealed. Anything as important as an eternal, universal law of tithing would have been clearly communicated and not left to us to fumble about and figure out. However, the opposite is true. It is not plainly laid out as a NT ordinance of God.

 

Tithers argue that Jesus is both king and priest and is therefore due a tithe. Jesus is certainly worthy of a tithe and much more, but his kingdom and priesthood are not based on the tithe. The tithe has no place in it. Everything about tithing is inferior to New Covenant life in Christ.

Jesus' call to us is not a 10% commitment. His call is absolute abandonment and commitment of all things to Him.

 

Jesus requires us to forsake all, to give all, and to use all for the accomplishment of his purposes.

 

Interestingly, He gives (entrusts) all things to us, and to jointly work with Him in His service and the Holy Spirit is now the leader in all matters and not the tithe, or any law or rules that come from man.

 

And if the Holy Spirit is the leader in all matters, where does that leave the modern "clergy"  Think about this: They are inextricably linked to the tithe.

Well, that's another story.

 

All the best,

Axehead


Edited by Axehead, 08 April 2015 - 03:59 AM.

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#96
StanJ

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Like I said Axehead, you are well indoctrinated about what you believe, but just not learned about Biblical principles. Feel free to exercise your perceived freedom as you see fit, to pick and choose what OT teachings/laws you decide you want to follow.
I will believe what I see the Bible teaching.
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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:6 (NIV)

 


#97
Axehead

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Since Stan challenged me to go back through all the posts to see all the teaching on the Law of Tithing for NT believers, I did just that. I went back through all the posts to see if anyone actually tried to teach all of us "Tithing" 10% off the top of your income is a requirement of the law. I did not find anyone that actually tried to teach it or demonstrate where in scripture it was found. I also did not find anyone that attempted to show us where the transition teaching took place that educated the church on how the OT Tithe was no longer in affect, but a hybrid tithe based on the OT tithe is now in effect. I did find someone who at least tried to show where this teaching originated and that can be found here. Interesting results:

 

TJM starts us off and thinks there are 3 options to tithing.

 

Liz starts off by encouraging TJM to give as the Holy Spirit leads and especially in agreement with your spouse. She also gently tells TJM that God's Word encourages giving but nothing to do with tithing and that the 10% mentality does not lend itself to "giving from ones heart". That we should not be compelled to give as that would not be from the heart. Bravo Liz! You understand the scriptures, correctly. It there is a law, then one cannot purpose within his own heart how much to give. 

 

Son of Man, says that God's portion is His People and does not go on to further elaborate. 

 

Trekson agrees with Liz and says the church should give generously and the law of tithing is not meant for the church. 

 

Son of Man follows up with some verses regarding the "Lord's portion is His people". 

 

Axehead weighs in and agrees with Liz and Trekson that there is no such thing as a compulsory religious tax of 10% spoken of within the OT or NT. That people should give willingly and cheerfully as they decide to do and not as someone else decides for them. 

 

kepha31 says tithing should never be required. That 10% is a guideline that comes from Mosaic law that we are not bound to.

 

zebrahug says that we should be giving because it is in our heart and that our giving should be instigated by a desire in our heart to give to God, and it doesn't really matter how much we give.  

 

soupy gives generously and with a cheerful heart and does not believe tithing is for today. 

 

Son of Man weighs in again and says the tithing that pleases God is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and might. 

 

Spirit Covenant says that God owns all that I am and do. 

 

Stan says the principle is to give a 10th off the top but gives no references. He links tithing to the priesthood and says offerings are like giving food to the hungry. 

 

rjp34652 agrees with Liz (no tithing law) and says Tithing is not mentioned at all in the NT for a very good reason. We are not bound to 10%. He gets a bit upset at the fallen away church and how it takes advantage of the sheep. (it is very upsetting). He has some very good things to say about the presumed law of NT tithing. 

 

John_8:32 believes that when Jesus chastised the Pharisees he was establishing the tithe for the NT church. However, they tithed anise and cummin and Jesus did not provide any transition teaching on how Tithing should be different in the NT. 

 

ByGrace agrees there is no such thing as the NT Tithe. He offers a personal testimony how he believe in the tithe for years until the Lord gave Him a revelation of the truth. 

For years and years we used to tithe, and we thought that we were 'the spiritual ones'  :rolleyes:
Then later on, we got the revelation that just as the ten commandments were hidden within The One New Commandment.
Just so the 10% was swallowed up in the 100%!! 
 

Stan weighs in that "it appears that most of us agree here", but Stan is mistaken as at least 10 out of 11 do not agree with Stan, so far. There is still more to come that will give their position.

 

Whitestone says the full meaning of tithing is giving Jesus all of who you are and have (my paraphrase, but sure this is what he meant). 

 

afaithfulone4u agrees with Stan and says that Paul gave the churches orders to give their "tithes" to someone that you trust. However, we see in Romans this was a one time collection for the poor saints at Jerusalem and still no detailed teaching of NT tithes and offerings is given. 

 

BiggAndyy thinks the tithes should go to priests today as it was given to priests in the OT and that priests today are the religious leaders. But, all believers are of the "royal priesthood". BiggAndyy is in agreement with Stan and John_8:32. 

 

Rocky Wiley is using Paul's example to imply that even religious elders should have a job and work with their own hands. 

 

SilenceInMotion offers a Catholic point of view. Not sure who he agrees with. 

 

Rocky Wiley comes back to voice agreement with Axehead and says Axehead forgot about the religious church using Malachi 3:8 verse about robbing God. Axehead dealt with the misuse of Mal 3:8, here

 

theophilus indicates that you do not have to give the whole tithe to your local church that you should ask God where He wants you to give it. 

 

rjp34652 weighs in again and talks about how the church has turned into a business always talking about money. (my paraphrase). 

 

7angels tells us that word says we are to tithe but just gives us his words and does not give us any references from the Bible. Says offerings are part of the tithe and if you don't give them you are robbing God's storehouse. 

 

7angels and Axehead go back and forth for awhile trying to hammer out what the scripture says about Christians not being under law but under grace. 7angels says, "grace compliments the law". 7angels says Jesus came to make the law stricter and Axehead says you can't get any stricter than death and that Paul says in Romans 7:6, we are "delivered from the law". 

 

Raeneske believes in tithing and would be in the same camp as Stan and John_8:32 along with afaithfulone4u, Raeneske and BiggAndyy

 

Trumpeter says it is literally impossible to tithe as instructed in Scriptures and provides a teaching to explain why.

 

Dodo_David does not agree with the Tithe and offers some very good info. One of his statements is this: Regarding the correct answer to the above question, there is no universal consensus. Plenty of pastors say that tithing is mandatory, but, as one pastor has stated, the New Testament does not explicitly command the tithe.

 

Hammerstone does not really weigh in for the tithe and looks like he weighs in against a rigid law of tithing (not really sure). Says it is not about hitting a 10% magic mark. The main point he is trying to get across is that we should be responsible stewards and put our money where our mouth is. 

 

JimParker has some great things to share and says "there is no New Testament teaching that Christians are required to tithe."  Lot of good posts and actual teaching from Scriptures by Jim. 

 

Then it is basically Stan, JimParker and Axehead from here on. 

 

I count about 24 people (more or less) and 4 or 5 people that agree that Tithing is a law that Christians are instructed to follow. Out of this entire thread, virtually no teaching is offered for this major doctrine. I say major, because those who support the tithing law for NT believers, support it as being mandatory. 

 

I think this little summary puts things in a better perspective. Lot of opinions for tithing, but virtually no teaching.

 

Axehead


Edited by Axehead, 08 April 2015 - 08:43 PM.

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#98
StanJ

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Too bad you couldn't do this without all the equivocal paraphrasing.

 

As we don't really know what God writes on peoples hearts, all we can do is see what His word says and as His word does NOT dismiss or cancel ANY of His laws outside of the Mosaic OC, then as I said many times, it's about whether you can see it and accept it or not.

The perspective I get is that SOME will go to great lengths to try and force their opinion on others for something that should be between God and the tither, as Jesus clearly taught in Matthew 6:2-4


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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:6 (NIV)

 


#99
Axehead

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Too bad you couldn't do this without all the equivocal paraphrasing.

 

As we don't really know what God writes on peoples hearts, all we can do is see what His word says and as His word does NOT dismiss or cancel ANY of His laws outside of the Mosaic OC, then as I said many times, it's about whether you can see it and accept it or not.

The perspective I get is that SOME will go to great lengths to try and force their opinion on others for something that should be between God and the tither, as Jesus clearly taught in Matthew 6:2-4

 

It's really too bad you could not explain your view, period. And you keep changing your tune and running from your own words. And if God did not cancel His Tithe and Offerings Law then why doesn't the church keep it as He instituted it rather than keeping a perverted version of it? Where did they get the authority to change the Law as God instituted it since as you say, God did not cancel ANY of His laws outside of the Mosaic OC? And once again you do not have a proper understanding of Scripture, Tithing was made a law under the Mosaic covenant not outside of it. Scriptures are very clear about that. And Christians are not obligated to keep the Law of Moses and that includes Tithe and Offerings and Physical Circumcision. And if you are going to keep part of the law, you are obligated to keep it all. 

 

Even church historians are in agreement when they say the tithing was not practiced by the early believers.

 

The tithe as taught by most Christian denominations as being 10 per cent of gross or net income is not contained on the pages of the Bible!

 

Most Pastors today have stopped preaching the tithe as it turns people away and they cannot support it from Scripture. As you can see from our informal poll in post 97 most posters in this thread do not see 10% of gross income any where in the pages of the Bible. 


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#100
StanJ

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It's really too bad you could not explain your view, period. And you keep changing your tune and running from your own words. And if God did not cancel His Tithe and Offerings Law then why doesn't the church keep it as He instituted it rather than keeping a perverted version of it? Where did they get the authority to change the Law as God instituted it since as you say, God did not cancel ANY of His laws outside of the Mosaic OC? And once again you do not have a proper understanding of Scripture, Tithing was made a law under the Mosaic covenant not outside of it. Scriptures are very clear about that. And Christians are not obligated to keep the Law of Moses and that includes Tithe and Offerings and Physical Circumcision. And if you are going to keep part of the law, you are obligated to keep it all. 

 

Even church historians are in agreement when they say the tithing was not practiced by the early believers.

 

The tithe as taught by most Christian denominations as being 10 per cent of gross or net income is not contained on the pages of the Bible!

 

Most Pastors today have stopped preaching the tithe as it turns people away and they cannot support it from Scripture. As you can see from our informal poll in post 97 most posters in this thread do not see 10% of gross income any where in the pages of the Bible. 

I have explained myself MANY times and only two members here disagree, but that is not the point. What you perceive to be wrong with some pastors may well be, but again THAT is not the issue.

You don't believe God cancelled or made obsolete the Mosaic/Levitical written law?

 

Well then maybe you should quote or cite THEM so we can all see this?

 

Of course it is IF you are willing to see it. What Jesus said was also in the OT, but many refused to accept what He taught and to see it, especially the teachers of the law and Pharisees.

 

It's not properly teaching tithing that turns people away, it what those who abuse church finances do that turns people away from BIG churches.


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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:6 (NIV)

 


#101
Axehead

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I have explained myself MANY times and only two members here disagree, but that is not the point. What you perceive to be wrong with some pastors may well be, but again THAT is not the issue.

You don't believe God cancelled or made obsolete the Mosaic/Levitical written law?

 

Well then maybe you should quote or cite THEM so we can all see this?

 

Of course it is IF you are willing to see it. What Jesus said was also in the OT, but many refused to accept what He taught and to see it, especially the teachers of the law and Pharisees.

 

It's not properly teaching tithing that turns people away, it what those who abuse church finances do that turns people away from BIG churches.

 

Yes, I am sure you are very convinced that you have explained yourself and that only 2 members (not 19) disagree with you. And your comprehension skills are amazing! You characterized what I said about the Mosaic Law, incorrectly. And finally yes, people are turned away from churches by tithing being constantly shoved down their throats and financial and authoritarian abuse.

 

Stan, you are the king of nanny-nanny-boo-boo so I fully expect you to have the last word. 

 

Have at it, Stan. The last word is yours. 


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#102
StanJ

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Yes, I am sure you are very convinced that you have explained yourself and that only 2 members (not 19) disagree with you. And your comprehension skills are amazing! You characterized what I said about the Mosaic Law, incorrectly. And finally yes, people are turned away from churches by tithing being constantly shoved down their throats and financial and authoritarian abuse.

 

Stan, you are the king of nanny-nanny-boo-boo so I fully expect you to have the last word. 

 

Have at it, Stan. The last word is yours. 

Well as your onerous attempt at posting equivocal paraphrases of posts failed, what else did you expect?

You're, I have very good comprehension skills, not just in language but in the spiritual realm.

I'm sure what I wrote was accurate and as you can't or won't show any different, I take you assertion here for what it's worth...nothing.

I only respond Axehead and if all you have are ad hominems then there's only that to respond to.

The last Word will be God's.


Edited by StanJ, 09 April 2015 - 07:55 PM.

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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col 4:6 (NIV)

 


#103
Sword

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You do not need to tithe to a church ever. there is no titheing for a NC Christian. churches have robbed us for years. Tithings not for today. There no NC scripture tell you to tithe, dont believe the lie.


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#104
lforrest

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You do not need to tithe to a church ever. there is no titheing for a NC Christian. churches have robbed us for years. Tithings not for today. There no NC scripture tell you to tithe, dont believe the lie.


Agreed, there should be no compulsory giving, that is robbery. If someone gives it should be done at will. There certainly isn't a 10 percent quota for Christians.

If I were to allocate a number to our devotion it should be more like 100 percent, because everything we do should be done in faith. That may mean giving time, money, and our lives to the Lord's service. It depends on his plan for us once we have decided to devote ourselves to the Lord.
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#105
Sword

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Agreed, there should be no compulsory giving, that is robbery. If someone gives it should be done at will. There certainly isn't a 10 percent quota for Christians.

If I were to allocate a number to our devotion it should be more like 100 percent, because everything we do should be done in faith. That may mean giving time, money, and our lives to the Lord's service. It depends on his plan for us once we have decided to devote ourselves to the Lord.

Agreed but giving is just for what ever you come accross in daily life. That would include talking the person on the street for a meal. I had no work for 20 weeks there. and am selfemployed. I am a director at a Charity who offers housing counciling food banks etc. I was to proud to ask for help. I had money come through my door. At one point £1250,00 It came from a young couple who tithe in the home and give as they are lead to. They give a gift to the church as it has to be paid for renting a building etc. Thats the church.


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#106
tom55

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Hi,

I just signed up for ths forum and have a question about tithing. To clarify up front, I'm aware of another thread discussing whether or not tithing is required. I started reading that with interest. But, my question assumes that God directs us to tithe and I am asking about further guidance.

Having recently relocated to begin a new job, I am looking for a church. I visited two churches and will probably visit a couple others before settling upon one. In the meantime, I’m sitting on a stack of God’s money.

While I attend worship at local churches, and the offering comes around, my understanding is that most visitors are not expected to give a tithe. The church asks that you drop in a new member form, or something similar, that has your contact information. I do put in some cash, but not nearly 10%. This is because I feel a sense of responsibility for the money that God has entrusted me with. I ruled out one of the churches and do not feel comfortable giving the money to them. I do not want to just hand money over blindly because I happened to have attended a particular church on a particular day. So, God’s money is accumulating in my bank account. And with every passing week I am more and more aware that He did not give this to me to simply let it sit there.

It appears that there are 3 options for what I can do in the meantime.

a) Continue holding the money until I find a new church, keeping it segregated from my checking account, and then pass on the full accumulation to whichever church I join.

B) Tithe every Sunday, even if I do not ultimately join the particular church that I attend on that particular Sunday.

c) Use the money to advance God’s work in other ways, such as donating it to Christian charities that feed the poor and shelter the homeless, to Christian ministries whose radio programs I have learned from for years, or use the money to do good deeds.

Is there any guidance in scripture for tithing while one is church searching? My understanding of scripture leads me to rule out option ( B). I am leaning more toward (c ). But I am certainly interested in any insights from scripture that others may have to offer.

On the first day of the week  each of you should set aside whatever he can afford,"  1 Corinthians 16:2

 

God doesn't demand a fixed amount of money from us; he wants us to give from the heart.


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#107
Marymog

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 God doesn't demand a fixed amount of money from us. He wants us to give from the heart. If people are asked by their church to give a certain percent of their income, that's extortion. If they give freely and cheerfully the amount they are able, that's a gift.

 

Just my two cents worth.

 

Mary


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