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Baptism in water vs Baptism in Holy Spirit

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#1
Shy

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As many of us know, the baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him. Baptism in Holy Spirit, however, is different.

 

John the Baptist said:

Matthew 3:11

11 “I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

 

Seems very easy, right? But in Ephesians there's one more thing.

Ephesians 4:5

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

I assume that "one baptism" is the one in Holy Spirit? Let's not forget that when Jesus came out from the water, He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

So how does one get baptized in Holy Spirit? Someone who is Pentecostal told me that someone has to place hands on you and speak in tongues, since speaking in tongues is a testimony of Holy Spirit working.

 

Someone else told me there are three baptisms. Knowing I'm yet a newborn, this is quite confusing for me, so I would appreciate some further explanation on this.  ^_^


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#2
rockytopva

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As many of us know, the baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him. Baptism in Holy Spirit, however, is different.

 

John the Baptist said:

 

Seems very easy, right? But in Ephesians there's one more thing.

 

I assume that "one baptism" is the one in Holy Spirit? Let's not forget that when Jesus came out from the water, He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

So how does one get baptized in Holy Spirit? Someone who is Pentecostal told me that someone has to place hands on you and speak in tongues, since speaking in tongues is a testimony of Holy Spirit working.

 

Someone else told me there are three baptisms. Knowing I'm yet a newborn, this is quite confusing for me, so I would appreciate some further explanation on this.  ^_^

 

Well... This is how I would explain it...

 


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#3
Angelina

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Hi Elizy!

 

 

So how does one get baptized in Holy Spirit? Someone who is Pentecostal told me that someone has to place hands on you and speak in tongues, since speaking in tongues is a testimony of Holy Spirit working.


I am a Trinity believing Pentecostal and I do not believe that speaking in tongues is the only outworking manifestation of the Holy Spirit's presence in you. If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit will then come and dwell in you. If you feel that you have not received the Holy Spirit yet, Just ask in prayer

 

Luke 11:13

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
 
Bless you!!! :)

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#4
Shy

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Hi Elizy!

 

 


I am a Trinity believing Pentecostal and I do not believe that speaking in tongues is the only outworking manifestation of the Holy Spirit's presence in you. If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit will then come and dwell in you. If you feel that you have not received the Holy Spirit yet, Just ask in prayer

 

Luke 11:13

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
 
Bless you!!! :)

 

Ah, I guess this is what I wanted to know. Yes, Jesus is my Savior and Lord, so I was a bit confused about this whole subject. The baptism in Holy Spirit seems to be very controversial. I attend a Baptist church, and they believe you're already baptized in Holy Spirit when accepting Jesus.

 

But then what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit? What does it mean "Baptized with Holy Spirit and the fire"?


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#5
Alanforchrist

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As many of us know, the baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him. Baptism in Holy Spirit, however, is different.

 

John the Baptist said:

 

Seems very easy, right? But in Ephesians there's one more thing.

 

I assume that "one baptism" is the one in Holy Spirit? Let's not forget that when Jesus came out from the water, He was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

So how does one get baptized in Holy Spirit? Someone who is Pentecostal told me that someone has to place hands on you and speak in tongues, since speaking in tongues is a testimony of Holy Spirit working.

 

Someone else told me there are three baptisms. Knowing I'm yet a newborn, this is quite confusing for me, so I would appreciate some further explanation on this.  ^_^

 

The Bible mentions three Christian baptisms

[1]The Spirit baptising us into the body of Christ...1 Cor 12: 12.

This is the rebirth.

 

[2]Baptism in water.. Acts 8: 36--38.

This is an outward sign, [Witness] of an ALREADY inward experience, It si one's identification with Jesus.

 

[3]The Baptism in the Holy Spirit..Matt 3: 11. Acts 1: 4--5.

The Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues..Every recording of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost in the Bible, They spoke in tongues.

Acts 2: 4..

Acts 8: 17--21.The Greek meaning for, "Matter", In v21. Is "Tongue, Language, dialect", They had the same experience

as those in Acts 2: 4..

Acts 9: 17. We know Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

Acts 10: 44--46.

Acts 19: 6.

These are the onle Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, And they all spoke in tongues.


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#6
Shy

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The Bible mentions three Christian baptisms

[1]The Spirit baptising us into the body of Christ...1 Cor 12: 12.

This is the rebirth.

 

[2]Baptism in water.. Acts 8: 36--38.

This is an outward sign, [Witness] of an ALREADY inward experience, It si one's identification with Jesus.

 

[3]The Baptism in the Holy Spirit..Matt 3: 11. Acts 1: 4--5.

The Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues..Every recording of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost in the Bible, They spoke in tongues.

Acts 2: 4..

Acts 8: 17--21.The Greek meaning for, "Matter", In v21. Is "Tongue, Language, dialect", They had the same experience

as those in Acts 2: 4..

Acts 9: 17. We know Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

Acts 10: 44--46.

Acts 19: 6.

These are the onle Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, And they all spoke in tongues.

 

So my assumption is slightly right. Unless you speak in tongues, you are not baptized in Holy Spirit, correct?


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#7
Alanforchrist

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Ah, I guess this is what I wanted to know. Yes, Jesus is my Savior and Lord, so I was a bit confused about this whole subject. The baptism in Holy Spirit seems to be very controversial. I attend a Baptist church, and they believe you're already baptized in Holy Spirit when accepting Jesus.

 

But then what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit? What does it mean "Baptized with Holy Spirit and the fire"?

One is born of the Spirit when they get saved, But the baptism in the Holy Ghost is a seperate experience.

Some of the disciples were born again when Jesus breathed the Spirit into them in Jn 20: 22..

[[We know Peter was, Because one of the words he used for "Love" In Jn 21: 15--17, Is "Agape", The love of God,

You cannot have the love of God unless you are born again of the Spirit]].

But they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until Acts 2: 4.

 

The disciples in Acts 8: 14 were saved,born of the Spirit, But they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until the Apostles laid their hands on them. V 15--17.

 

The Apostel Paul was saved, Acts 9: 6, But he wasn't baptised in the Holy Ghost until  Ananias laid his hands on Paul three days later. V9--17.

 

As for the Holy Ghost and FIRE, The original greek text meanig for "Fire", Is ,

"The Hoiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistant with Holiness"....The baptism in the Holy Ghost give extra power to live a holy life.

 

As for the gifts of the Spirit..They fall into three groups.

Group [1] The revelation gifts.

The word of wisdom, The word of knowledge and the descerning of Spirits.

These all releal something.

 

Group [2] The insperation gifts.

Prohpecy, Tongues and the interpretation of tongues.

These al say something.

 

Group [3] The power gifts]

Special faith,  The gifts of healings and the working of miracles.

These all do something.

 

God wants to reveal something to the Church and through the Church.

Say something to the Church and through the Church....And

Do something for the Church and through the Church.


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#8
Shy

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I personally did not understand anything from it. Is it not Jesus that baptizes us with Holy Spirit? Then how to be baptized in Holy Spirit?


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#9
Alanforchrist

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So my assumption is slightly right. Unless you speak in tongues, you are not baptized in Holy Spirit, correct?

 

If one is baptised in the Holy Ghost, They can And should speak in tongues, Because God has given eight operations of tongues to the Church, And they are all important.

As I said, Every Biblical account of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, They ALL spoke in tongues.

Any born again Christian can recieve the baptism in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues,anytime thet release their faith.



I personally did not understand anything from it. Is it not Jesus that baptizes us with Holy Spirit? Then how to be baptized in Holy Spirit?

Jesus does baptise us with the Holy Ghost, But we have to ask Him for it. Lk 11: 11--13.

And believe, Acts 11: 16--17.

Evey gift from God has to be received by faith.


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#10
Shy

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Speaking in tongues is really controversial. In these modern times, it is not paid attention to it this much as it was before; one can always fake it and you won't know.

 

Then again, what are those "tongues"?

 

I believe and desire to be baptized in Holy Spirit, yet nothing has happened. I saw a topic on another forum listing some of the gifts of Holy Spirit, is it not necessarily tongues.


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#11
logabe

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But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God mustbelievethat he is , and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seekhim.

Ah, I guess this is what I wanted to know. Yes, Jesus is my Savior and Lord, so I was a bit confused about this whole subject. The baptism in Holy Spirit seems to be very controversial. I attend a Baptist church, and they believe you're already baptized in Holy Spirit when accepting Jesus.

 

But then what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit? What does it mean "Baptized with Holy Spirit and the fire"?

 

Shy... I was a Baptist also and I had the same questions that

you are asking. I had some wonderful friends in the Baptist

Church and still do that tells me I already had the Holy Spirit.

 

That was true to a certain extent, but I wanted more, so I ask

God, and studied the scriptures to see if I was being told the

whole truth. These Christians are very good people, but God

will limit their understanding according to their desire to know

him in a greater way. God will reward you with understanding

if you diligently seek Him. Heb. 11:6 says,

 

6 But without faith it is impossible to please

him: for he that cometh to God must believe

that he is , and that he is a rewarder of them

that diligently seek him.

 

When I believed on the Lord, I had an experience I had never

had before in my life. It was such a refreshing and I knew that

God truly loved me. The yoke of burden was lifted off of my

shoulders and I was a new creature in Christ Jesus. But God

began to deal with me about the same issues that you are

curious about. So I went to the pastors and they told me I had

everything when I believed on the Lord.

 

I wasn't satisfied... so I diligently began to seek the Lord through

the scriptures. What I learned was I had experienced my Passover

feast when the Lord washed me one night in a classroom that they

were using to have services for the college kids on campus. 

 

These college kids were telling me I could receive the baptism of the

Holy Spirit. Well, no one told me that I needed something else where

I was attending church. For a couple months I was very confused, but

I was determined to understand this because I thought it was worth

taking the time so I could help others.

 

Faith comes by hearing the word. I continually read the scriptures about

people receiving the Holy Ghost and six months after having a Passover

experience, it happened. I was asking God in prayer one morning to fill

me with the Holy Ghost and suddenly my belly became very warm and I

had a feeling of peace and joy that was out of this world. The warm and

convincing feeling began to flow upward into my mouth. My lips began to

quiver and my tongue began to speak in a language that I didn't know.

 

It scared me! I had no control of what was going on and the only thing I

knew to do was run. I jumped up and grabbed my mouth and run out of

the church and got in my car and left. I was terrified, because it was so

foreign. It was different and I just didn't feel comfortable not having

control over it.

 

I ask God, what was that? He spoke to my spirit and said, I thought you

wanted the Holy Ghost. When I heard that, I began to cry. I knew at that

moment it was real and God had baptised me in the Holy Ghost. When I

realized what God had just done, I ask Him to continue filling me and He

did.

 

In essense, Jesus told His disciples to go to Jerusalem and they would

receive POWER after the Holy Ghost came upon them. Acts 1:8.

 

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost

is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me

both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,

and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

 

The purpose of the Holy Ghost or your Pentecost experience, is to make

you a true witness. In other words, you will have the ability to speak to

the people the true words and understanding of the scriptures. John 14:

26 says,

 

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom

the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all

things, and bring all things to your remembrance ,

whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

Jesus spoke to his disciples and told them that the Spirit of Truth was with

them because they believed. When you have a Passover experience the

Holy Ghost is with you. But when you have a Pentecostal experience, the

Holy Ghost is in you. John 14:17 says,

 

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot

receive , because it seeth him not, neither knoweth

him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and

shall be in you.

 

What a God! What a Plan!

 

Logabe

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by logabe, 02 February 2013 - 09:52 AM.

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#12
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So my assumption is slightly right. Unless you speak in tongues, you are not baptized in Holy Spirit, correct?

 

It's an assumption all right, find some verses that say this is evidence of the HS. That we should all expect to all be gifted with tongues.

I might add that I have never seen nor heard testimony of tongues in my life as described in Acts 2.

 

If one is baptised in the Holy Ghost, They can And should speak in tongues, Because God has given eight operations of tongues to the Church, And they are all important.

As I said, Every Biblical account of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, They ALL spoke in tongues.

Any born again Christian can recieve the baptism in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues,anytime thet release their faith.

 

Do you have some verses that we can look at that support your "bolded statement above"

 

As well as 8 operations of tongues to the church?
 



This presumption of tongues is already well outside the teachings of the Apostles


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#13
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Logabe, your post and experience has lifted me up and given me the desire to seek more than I am seeking now. I appreciate your reply.

 

Faith.. is what I need. It's somewhat a hard concept to grasp yet I want it. I need it. But what could be stopping me from believing?


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#14
Rex

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Shy, I would recommend you ask others for scriptural evidence, and prayerfully study the word to find out what is being taught is supported by scripture.
 
Many are going to tell you things the Apostles never said or implied. It up to you to discover the truth.

 

As I said, Every Biblical account of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, They ALL spoke in tongues.

 
Really and where is this mentioned that everyone speaks in tongues?


Edited by Rex, 02 February 2013 - 10:23 AM.

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#15
Alanforchrist

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Speaking in tongues is really controversial. In these modern times, it is not paid attention to it this much as it was before; one can always fake it and you won't know.

 

Then again, what are those "tongues"?

 

I believe and desire to be baptized in Holy Spirit, yet nothing has happened. I saw a topic on another forum listing some of the gifts of Holy Spirit, is it not necessarily tongues.

I don't know why tongues are so controversial tpday, But you are right, a lot of people don't know much about tongues.

A person who is filled with the Holy Ghost knows it, They will also know if anyone is faking tongues, That is one of the reasons for the revelation gifts, [To reveal who is truely speaking in a God given tongue, And who isn't].

 

One of the gifts of the Spirit is tongues, 1 Cor 12: 10., These are divers kinds of tongues, [In other words they are different to the other tongues we receive]. The tongues i 1 Cor 12: 10 are for interpretation., They are not the tongues one receives at their baptism in the Holy Ghost.

 

You receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost By Faith, The moment you receive the Holy Ghost by faith,He will give you the words, to speak, Acts 2: 4.  It might be just one ot two sylables, But you have to speak them out IN FAITH, Acts 2: 4 says, "They spoke".

as the Spirit gave them the utterance, The moment God know you have the faith to receive, The Holy Ghost will give you the utterance..Then speak out..IN FAITH.

 

 

Here are some manifestations of tongues.

 

[1]Tongues that are a foreign language...Act 2: 4--11.

God can and will use these tongues through any of His people whenever there is a need.

 

[2]Tongues that are for interpretation, 1 Cor 12: 10.

These are the tongues that Paul said not every of will have, 1 Cor 12: 30.

 

[3]Tongues that only God can understand, 1 Cor 14: 2..

These are mysteries, A mystery is a hidden secret, Hidden for us NOT FROM US.

 

[4]Tongues that edify us [build us up]. 1 Cor 14: 4. Jude 20.

 

[5]Tongues that are our Spirit praying, 1 Cor 14: 14--15.

 

[6]Tongues that are for praise and worshiping God in songs, 1 Cor 14: 15--17.

 

[7] Tongues of Angels, 1 Cor 13: 1.

We can speak to God in the Angelic language.

 

[8]Tongues that the Spirit used to interceed for us, Rom 8: 26--28.

As the Spirit interceeds for us,Or throug us for others, Then all things work together for our good..V28.

 

The meaning of, "Cannot be uttered" V26, Means cannot be spoken in our native language, But the Spirit needs our voice to interceed through us and for us.

 

Those of us who have experienced the Holy Spirit interceeding for us, Know when He takes over our tongues.

 

Jesus said the believer shall speak in tongues, Mk 16: 17,..So every believer can and should speak in tongues once they have been baptised in the Holy Ghost.



Jesus said the believer SHALL speak in tongues,

It's an assumption all right, find some verses that say this is evidence of the HS. That we should all expect to all be gifted with tongues.

I might add that I have never seen nor heard testimony of tongues in my life as described in Acts 2.

 

 

Do you have some verses that we can look at that support your "bolded statement above"

 

As well as 8 operations of tongues to the church?
 



This presumption of tongues is already well outside the teachings of the Apostles

Jesus said the believer SHALL speak in tongues,, Mk 16: 17.

And that's good enough for me..

You can make your wrong assumptions if you want to, But I will believe what the Bible says.



Shy, I would recommend you ask others for scriptural evidence, and prayerfully study the word to find out what is being taught is supported by scripture.
 
Many are going to tell you things the Apostles never said or implied. It up to you to discover the truth.

 

 
Really and where is this mentioned that everyone speaks in tongues?

 

 

If you read my earlier post, You would know where the Bible says those who were baptised in the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues.

 

Here are the scriptures.

 

The Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues..Every recording of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost in the Bible, They spoke in tongues.


 

Acts 2: 4..


 

Acts 8: 17--21.The Greek meaning for, "Matter", In v21. Is "Tongue, Language, dialect", They had the same experience


 

as those in Acts 2: 4..


 

Acts 9: 17. We know Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.


 

Acts 10: 44--46.


 

Acts 19: 6.


 

These are the onle Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, And they all spoke in tongues.


 


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#16
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I don't know why tongues are so controversial tpday, But you are right, a lot of people don't know much about tongues.
A person who is filled with the Holy Ghost knows it, They will also know if anyone is faking tongues, That is one of the reasons for the revelation gifts, [To reveal who is truely speaking in a God given tongue, And who isn't].

I do, because its become a religion.

Tongues have become the keystone on which their faith rest.
 

Jesus said the believer shall speak in tongues, Mk 16: 17,..So every believer can and should speak in tongues once they have been baptised in the Holy Ghost.

 
Shy, should Google and study up on the Mark 16, 9-20 the controversy.

I have found that the bible has error correcting attributes, and I find no other place in scripture That supports the speaking in tongues controversy. Because so many manuscripts don't include Marks closing verses and I don't find support for the statement else where, I have to ponder the validity. I also notice the only denomination that references this verse is the MUST speak in tongues Christians. Simulare to Catholics referencing Matthew 16:18 It also has become the keystone on which the RCC rest.


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#17
Alanforchrist

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Logabe, your post and experience has lifted me up and given me the desire to seek more than I am seeking now. I appreciate your reply.

 

Faith.. is what I need. It's somewhat a hard concept to grasp yet I want it. I need it. But what could be stopping me from believing?

 

If you are born again, You have faith, Rom 12: 3.

Faith is so simple, It is acting as though God has told you the truth,

If someone you know and trust, tells you they are going to give you £100,  And put it on a table, and said take it, You would have no doubts and take it with thanks.

How much more should we trust God who cannot lie.

Faith is so simple, It just believes what God says in the Bible, And receives the blessings.

 

Some people are waiting for God to baptised them in the Holy Ghost, Because Jesus said, Wait for the promise" Acts 1: 4.

But the promise was given, Acts 2: 1--4.

Now Peter said The Holy Ghost is a gift, Acts 2: 38. The gift has already been given, And we receive it by simple faith.



I do, because its become a religion.

Tongues have become the keystone on which their faith rest.
 

 
Shy, should Google and study up on the Mark 16, 9-20 the controversy.

I have found that the bible has error correcting attributes, and I find no other place in scripture That supports the speaking in tongues controversy. Because so many manuscripts don't include Marks closing verses and I don't find support for the statement else where, I have to ponder the validity. I also notice the only denomination that references this verse is the MUST speak in tongues Christians. Simulare to Catholics referencing Matthew 16:18 It also has become the keystone on which the RCC rest.

 

The earliest and most importandt manuscripts included all of Mk 16.

Plus Church history proves that there has always been people speaking in tongues.


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#18
Rex

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If faith is simple as it is, why add your flavor of speaking in tongues to it?



And speaking in tongues is speaking in another language and people hearing and preconceive in their own tongue, Acts 2

Is this what you do? As well as your place of worship?

Or do you simple speak in groanings of the spirit as described in Romans 8:26


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#19
Alanforchrist

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If faith is simple as it is, why add your flavor of speaking in tongues to it?



And speaking in tongues is speaking in another language and people hearing and preconceive in their own tongue, Acts 2

Is this what you do? As well as your place of worship?

Or do you simple speak in groanings of the spirit as described in Romans 8:26

Because I believe in speaking in tongues and speak in tongues by faith.


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#20
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Are you or anyone else able to stand before any people of the world and speak in tongues and they understand? as was done in Acts chapter 2?



If not then, then your mouth has spoken of something your faith can't support or produce.


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#21
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As many of us know, the baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him.

 

Where does it say that in scripture?


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#22
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Where does it say that in scripture?

 

LOL now lets add the necessity of water baptism as practiced and taught by the catholic church.

 

I pray Lord, help us and please return quickly so the nonsense will be put to rest.


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#23
Mungo

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LOL now lets add the necessity of water baptism as practiced and taught by the catholic church.

 

I pray Lord, help us and please return quickly so the nonsense will be put to rest.

 

It seemed a simple enough question.

 

This is the Bible Study & Discipleship Forum

 

Is there a problem with showing where the Bible states that "baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have
accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him"?



 


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#24
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It seemed a simple enough question.

 

This is the Bible Study & Discipleship Forum

 

Is there a problem with showing where the Bible states that "baptism in water is simply a public testimony of our faith, that we have
accepted Jesus in our lives and that we desire to follow Him"?



 

 

And just where does it say sprinkling with water is baptism as well as excluding the "drink" or wine from communion?

 

Lets face it the churches today and of the past all have their own form of interpretation "necessities" for salvation.



Bible study is a pick and choose proposition in the world today.

Your the one that will be required to give an account so choose wisely.


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#25
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And just where does it say sprinkling with water is baptism as well as excluding the "drink" or wine from communion?

 

Lets face it the churches today and of the past all have their own form of interpretation "necessities" for salvation.



Bible study is a pick and choose proposition in the world today.

Your the one that will be required to give an account so choose wisely.

 

You seem to have a problem answering a simple question.


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#26
Rex

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You seem to have a problem answering a simple question.

 

You seem to have a problem with selective definitions.

AKA baptism and communion, nether of which you practice as described in the NT.

 

Then you think you can tell others what the bible says and teaches, that's a bit hypocritical don't you think?

Telling people they must be baptized but not practicing baptism by immersion, or practicing the necessity of communion and excluding the drink.



Then stand here with a straight face and tell people what is and isn't in the bible, really!


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#27
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You seem to have a problem with selective definitions.

AKA baptism and communion, nether of which you practice as described in the NT.

 

Then you think you can tell others what the bible says and teaches, that's a bit hypocritical don't you think?

Telling people they must be baptized but not practicing baptism by immersion, or practicing the necessity of communion and excluding the drink.



Then stand here with a straight face and tell people what is and isn't in the bible, really!

 

 

I haven't said a word about any of the topics you have raised. They seem to be your obsession.

 

Nor have I tried to tell anyone what the Bible says and teaches, or what is or isn't in the Bible.

 

I've just asked a simple question about where something that the OP stated is in the Bible

 

You asked Alanforchrist Do you have some verses that we can look at that support your "bolded statement above"

 

Do I not have the same right to ask where something that is stated can be found in the Bible?

 

If you do not know the answer then perhaps you could just leave it to someone else to answer.


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#28
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You and I both know your a catholic, to now try to presume your not going to implicate the teachings of the catholic church is completely disingenuous.

I would simply like to forgo the formalities and get to the bottom of the matter, but you can dance to the song any way you like, unless of course you have denounced the teachings of the catholic church?



So lets not build a straw-man or beat around the bush shall we


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#29
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You and I both know your a catholic, to now try to presume your not going to implicate the teachings of the catholic church is completely disingenuous.

I would simply like to forgo the formalities and get to the bottom of the matter, but you can dance to the song any way you like, unless of course you have denounced the teachings of the catholic church?



So lets not build a straw-man or beat around the bush shall we

 

Gee! You have a serious problem.

 

Can anyone answer my question?


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#30
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Where does it say that in scripture?

 

Your hypothetical question? that will lead to your point, that I already addressed?



LOL


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