Jump to content

Primary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Secondary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Squares Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to Christianity Board Christian Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

The prophets' speaking skills

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1
Apocalypticist

Apocalypticist

    Advanced Member

  • Account Disabled
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

Often times God would call a prophet who had trouble speaking and was very frightened of speaking publicly.

 

Moses stuttered and begged God put someone ahead of him to do the speaking.

 

Jonah was afraid to go to Nineveh, fearing the people would not hear him.

 

Jeremiah said, "I am only a child" not confident that he could confront the nation and speak stern words against it.

 

Isaiah entered into the presence of God and said, "Woe unto me! I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips."

 

What was different in the New Testament was the apostles who were very gifted and persuasive speakers, but of course, they had the greatest Teacher who they lived with, ate and slept with for over three years.

 

But the prophets of old were incredibly awkward. Elisha was mocked for being a 'bald head'. Isaiah went naked for 430 days. Ezekiel ate a.. something, you can read that one later. Amos was a simple countryman, a herdsmen, probably not what the enlightened cosmopolitan culture would think of as progressive. None of the prophets were 'ideal' in any true sense of the word.

 

Which is all the more the challenge for us when we see young, backwards, simple folk who speak in biblical proportions or with a similar conviction. The Judeans thought of the countryfolk, the unlearned in the synagogues, the outcasts like we do today.


Edited by Apocalypticist, 27 December 2013 - 12:19 AM.

  • 0

#2
Dodo_David

Dodo_David

    Melmacian in human guise

  • Moderator
  • 1,056 posts

Uh, what is the point of this thread's opening post?


  • 0

"I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of wickedness.." - Psalms 84:10 (ESV)

My Homepage


#3
Apocalypticist

Apocalypticist

    Advanced Member

  • Account Disabled
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

The point is to draw attention to the fact that prophets were not speakers. I think that's a pretty important point most people skip over.


  • 0

#4
Dodo_David

Dodo_David

    Melmacian in human guise

  • Moderator
  • 1,056 posts

The point is to draw attention to the fact that prophets were not speakers. I think that's a pretty important point most people skip over.

 

 

Uh, OK. So this thread is suppose to be lesson about the past?


  • 0

"I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of wickedness.." - Psalms 84:10 (ESV)

My Homepage


#5
lforrest

lforrest

    Advanced Member

  • Moderator
  • 499 posts

Jonah was afraid to go to Nineveh, fearing the people would not hear him.

 

Actually Jonah was afraid to go to Nineveh, fearing the people would hear him.  Then the people would repent and the calamity that would befall them would be averted.  Jonah wanted Nineveh to be destroyed.


  • 1

#6
Rach

Rach

    Advanced Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,801 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Which is all the more the challenge for us when we see young, backwards, simple folk who speak in biblical proportions or with a similar conviction. The Judeans thought of the countryfolk, the unlearned in the synagogues, the outcasts like we do today.

 

I suppose some people do tend to think that only 'age' can bring wisdom. But I think that daily we have proof otherwise!!

There are absolutely some older people who are incredibly wise....my Grandpa was one of them....just a humble, loving, godly man! And there are numerous teachers out there that fit both categories....old, and wise!

But you are right, in that sometimes youth can surprise. God never really worries about appearance, age, occupation or even sex. And it is really rather foolish to base judgement on those things. As always, it needs to come back to scripture, and what God has said and promised. Those are the things we can rely on, and as long as a person...either old or young...holds to biblical truths and wisdom, then we can trust them.


  • 0
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2


"In essentials.....Unity...
In non-essentials.....liberty...
But in all things......love..."

#7
Dodo_David

Dodo_David

    Melmacian in human guise

  • Moderator
  • 1,056 posts

There is another fact about the ones who prophesy under God's direction.

 

They give their prophetic messages directly in a language spoken by the people.

They don't use a middle-person who speaks in ecstatic utterances, like the oracles at Delphi did.


  • 0

"I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of wickedness.." - Psalms 84:10 (ESV)

My Homepage


#8
Rach

Rach

    Advanced Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,801 posts
  • LocationAustralia

I believe the purpose (or one of them!) for that is so that people can verify that the 'message' comes directly from God. Bad things always happened to God's people when they blithely believed every tom, dick and harry that came along with a message.


  • 0
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2


"In essentials.....Unity...
In non-essentials.....liberty...
But in all things......love..."

#9
Retrobyter

Retrobyter

    Advanced Member

  • Christian Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationTampa Bay, Florida

Shalom, Apocalypticist.

 

Often times God would call a prophet who had trouble speaking and was very frightened of speaking publicly.

 

Moses stuttered and begged God put someone ahead of him to do the speaking.

 

Jonah was afraid to go to Nineveh, fearing the people would not hear him.

 

Jeremiah said, "I am only a child" not confident that he could confront the nation and speak stern words against it.

 

Isaiah entered into the presence of God and said, "Woe unto me! I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips."

 

What was different in the New Testament was the apostles who were very gifted and persuasive speakers, but of course, they had the greatest Teacher who they lived with, ate and slept with for over three years.

 

But the prophets of old were incredibly awkward. Elisha was mocked for being a 'bald head'. Isaiah went naked for 430 days. Ezekiel ate a.. something, you can read that one later. Amos was a simple countryman, a herdsmen, probably not what the enlightened cosmopolitan culture would think of as progressive. None of the prophets were 'ideal' in any true sense of the word.

 

Which is all the more the challenge for us when we see young, backwards, simple folk who speak in biblical proportions or with a similar conviction. The Judeans thought of the countryfolk, the unlearned in the synagogues, the outcasts like we do today.

 

It sounds to me like you are trying to say that men today who speak with "similar conviction" can be compared to the prophets of yesterday, even though they are "backwards," because so were the prophets in their day. Am I right? Is that the argument you are trying to build?

 

If so, then you need to understand that there is a HUGE difference between the prophets of old and the men (and women) who speak "a word for the Lord" today: The prophets were ACTUALLY GIVEN their words by God! They were ORDERED to speak on YHWH'S behalf! And, if they refused to do so, that's when the things about which they were to warn the people happened to THEM instead! (Or, at least, that's what they SAID would happen to them, and feared that God would do to them!) Their drive to speak for the YHWH came FROM YHWH; it was NOT just a "conviction." It was a COMPELLING! It was a COMPULSION! It was COMPULSORY!

 

Jeremiah said,

 

Jeremiah 20:9

9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.

KJV

 

Consider also the compulsion placed on the first king of Isra'el, Sha'uwl (Saul):

 

1 Samuel 10:1-13

1 Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul's head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the Lord anointed you leader over his inheritance?  2 When you leave me today, you will meet two men near Rachel's tomb, at Zelzah on the border of Benjamin. They will say to you, 'The donkeys you set out to look for have been found. And now your father has stopped thinking about them and is worried about you. He is asking, "What shall I do about my son?"'

3 "Then you will go on from there until you reach the great tree of Tabor. Three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, another three loaves of bread, and another a skin of wine. 4 They will greet you and offer you two loaves of bread, which you will accept from them.

5 "After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, tambourines, flutes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

8 "Go down ahead of me to Gilgal. I will surely come down to you to sacrifice burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, but you must wait seven days until I come to you and tell you what you are to do."

9 As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul's heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day. 10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying. 11 When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, "What is this that has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?"

12 A man who lived there answered, "And who is their father?" So it became a saying: "Is Saul also among the prophets?" 13 After Saul stopped prophesying, he went to the high place.
NIV

 

(I used the NIV simply to save space and make it more understandable.)

 

It's not about the "conviction" of the person; it's about the "COMPULSION" of YHWH! It wasn't at the whim of the speaker; it was at the ORDER of YAH! Whether they wanted to say something or not, they were COMPELLED to say His Word! If they tried to resist, His Word would BURN within them!


  • 0

In the Messiah's love,

Retrobyter

 


#10
Apocalypticist

Apocalypticist

    Advanced Member

  • Account Disabled
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

Shalom, Apocalypticist.

 

 

It sounds to me like you are trying to say that men today who speak with "similar conviction" can be compared to the prophets of yesterday, even though they are "backwards," because so were the prophets in their day. Am I right? Is that the argument you are trying to build?

 

If so, then you need to understand that there is a HUGE difference between the prophets of old and the men (and women) who speak "a word for the Lord" today: The prophets were ACTUALLY GIVEN their words by God! They were ORDERED to speak on YHWH'S behalf! And, if they refused to do so, that's when the things about which they were to warn the people happened to THEM instead! (Or, at least, that's what they SAID would happen to them, and feared that God would do to them!) Their drive to speak for the YHWH came FROM YHWH; it was NOT just a "conviction." It was a COMPELLING! It was a COMPULSION! It was COMPULSORY!

 

Jeremiah said,

 

Jeremiah 20:9

9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.

KJV

 

Consider also the compulsion placed on the first king of Isra'el, Sha'uwl (Saul):

 

1 Samuel 10:1-13

1 Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul's head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the Lord anointed you leader over his inheritance?  2 When you leave me today, you will meet two men near Rachel's tomb, at Zelzah on the border of Benjamin. They will say to you, 'The donkeys you set out to look for have been found. And now your father has stopped thinking about them and is worried about you. He is asking, "What shall I do about my son?"'

3 "Then you will go on from there until you reach the great tree of Tabor. Three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, another three loaves of bread, and another a skin of wine. 4 They will greet you and offer you two loaves of bread, which you will accept from them.

5 "After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, tambourines, flutes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

8 "Go down ahead of me to Gilgal. I will surely come down to you to sacrifice burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, but you must wait seven days until I come to you and tell you what you are to do."

9 As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul's heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day. 10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying. 11 When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, "What is this that has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?"

12 A man who lived there answered, "And who is their father?" So it became a saying: "Is Saul also among the prophets?" 13 After Saul stopped prophesying, he went to the high place.
NIV

 

(I used the NIV simply to save space and make it more understandable.)

 

It's not about the "conviction" of the person; it's about the "COMPULSION" of YHWH! It wasn't at the whim of the speaker; it was at the ORDER of YAH! Whether they wanted to say something or not, they were COMPELLED to say His Word! If they tried to resist, His Word would BURN within them!

 

I agree with you. And when I say 'backwards', I wasn't really having in mind to extend that out to all the prophets. I was having in mind a group of people who society looks at as that way. The Pharisees said 'Has a prophet ever come out of Galilee' because Galilee was the backwoods. People have the same judgmental attitudes today. It doesn't mean the person is backwards, it just means that society views the person as being unfit for God to speak through.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users