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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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#61
ATP

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That isn't scriptural. The 5th seal proves the saved dead are in heaven not Hades. Paul also speaks a couple times about wanting to be dead to be with Christ. Obviously he doesn't believe believers go to Hades.

 

Wrong. The 5th seal is a vision of the future. The seven seals are only opened  in the end times. The 5th and 6th seal are interconnected and speak of the first resurrection.


Edited by ATP, 30 July 2015 - 03:30 PM.

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#62
The Barrd

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No the dead are alive in another sense. Rev 6:9, And the fact Moses and Elijah appeared and spoke to Jesus though they were "dead".

 

What about Samuel (1 Sam 28)

 

He seems to have been resting in Hades...in fact, his annoyance sounds rather like one who has been awakened from sleep:

 

1Sa 28:15  And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?

 

Of course, there have been exceptions.  Elijah, for instance, was taken up in a whirlwind...he evidently did not die a physical death.  So why could he not appear and speak to Jesus?  Surely God is able to raise whom He will raise, whether they sleep or no?

 

On the other hand, what about all of those saints who came out of their graves at the death of Christ?

 

Mat 27:50  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mat 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many

 

I am curious...where do you think these guys are today?


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"Lord, I have no gift to bring

Only this little song I sing."

"My child," gently smiled the Lord,

"Go, and sing it to the world."

                                       The Barrd


#63
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He was in hell/hades.

 

Wait a minute.  I thought Hades was supposed to be some sort of waiting room for the damned?  

You are confusing me, here...


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"Lord, I have no gift to bring

Only this little song I sing."

"My child," gently smiled the Lord,

"Go, and sing it to the world."

                                       The Barrd


#64
ATP

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Are we not given a white robe at the first resurrection and rapture?? If you notice in rapture movies our clothes are left behind.

 

Rev 6:9:11 NIV When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
 


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#65
ewq1938

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Wrong. The 5th seal is a vision of the future. The seven seals are only opened  in the end times. The 5th and 6th seal are interconnected and speak of the first resurrection.

 

 

The 5th seal being future is meaningless to this discussion. It proves the dead aren't sleeping like you believe.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#66
ewq1938

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On the other hand, what about all of those saints who came out of their graves at the death of Christ?

 

Mat 27:50  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mat 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many

 

I am curious...where do you think these guys are today?

 

 

They were raised back to human life and would have died again at some point I assume. I alsoassume being saints that they would return to heaven where they had been.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#67
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The 5th seal being future is meaningless to this discussion. It proves the dead aren't sleeping like you believe.

 

The 5th seal being future is the whole point of that seal. It is the MAIN point of which you're missing. Can you find me scripture that says we receive white robes after we die?? Uh no you can't.


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#68
ewq1938

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He was in hell/hades.

 

Wait a minute.  I thought Hades was supposed to be some sort of waiting room for the damned?  

You are confusing me, here...

 

 

It is. I don't see what caused any confusion.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#69
ewq1938

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Are we not given a white robe at the first resurrection and rapture??
 

 

Yes.

 

Edit: you said "we" and we being currently alive I thought you meant the living when Jesus returns. If we died, then the answer is no, we get the robes earlier.


Edited by ewq1938, 30 July 2015 - 03:54 PM.

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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#70
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You cannot be conscious of your surroundings without the breath of life in you.

 

Gen 3:19 NIV By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Job 34:14-15 NIV If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, 15all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.
Eccl 12:7 NIV and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
 


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#71
ewq1938

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The 5th seal being future is the whole point of that seal. It is the MAIN point of which you're missing. Can you find me scripture that says we receive white robes after we die?? Uh no you can't.

 

 

lol, you are missing my point of bring up the seal. Last time I'll say it: you believe the dead are sleeping but the fifth seal proves the dead are full awake and talking. Nothing about it being the future or robes has anything to do with why I mention it. The fifth seal is BEFORE the first resurrection.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#72
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Yes.

 

and the white robe is in the fifth seal. 1+1=2. :rolleyes:


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#73
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check mate.


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#74
The Barrd

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Are we not given a white robe at the first resurrection and rapture?? If you notice in rapture movies our clothes are left behind.

 

Rev 6:9:11 NIV When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
 

I've never been interested enough to actually watch a rapture movie.  

Are you saying that the people are naked?

Perhaps I ought to check this out...my grandkids have cable...


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"Lord, I have no gift to bring

Only this little song I sing."

"My child," gently smiled the Lord,

"Go, and sing it to the world."

                                       The Barrd


#75
ewq1938

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You cannot be conscious of your surroundings without the breath of life in you.
 

 

 

You do not need a body to be conscious of your surroundings as the fifth seal proves.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#76
ewq1938

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and the white robe is in the fifth seal. 1+1=2. :rolleyes:

 

 

It's just symbolic of righteousness not that they have been resurrected. I was technically wrong to agree the robes are given at the time of the resurrection. I had the living saints that are changed without dying in mind...they would get their robes at the same timeframe as the resurrection but those who had been dead got robes long before.

 

I edited the other post to explain how I misunderstood your question:

 

Are we not given a white robe at the first resurrection and rapture??
 

 

Yes.

 

Edit: you said "we" and we being currently alive I thought you meant the living when Jesus returns. If we died, then the answer is no, we get the robes earlier.


Edited by ewq1938, 30 July 2015 - 03:54 PM.

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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#77
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I've never been interested enough to actually watch a rapture movie.  

Are you saying that the people are naked?

Perhaps I ought to check this out...my grandkids have cable...

 

Not naked, but rather we receive our white robes.

 

You do not need a body to be conscious of your surroundings as the fifth seal proves.

 

Then show me in scripture where we receive white robes BEFORE the first resurrection.


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#78
ewq1938

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Not naked, but rather we receive our white robes.

 

 

Then show me in scripture where we receive white robes BEFORE the first resurrection.

 

 

See the 5th seal. That is a period of time before the tribulation where the dead are asking when God will avenge their deaths and they are told more still have to die like they did...a reference to the trib. All long before the first resurrection which happens after the trib.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#79
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It's just symbolic of righteousness not that they have been resurrected. I was technically wrong to agree the robes are given at the time of the resurrection. I had the living saints that are changed without dying in mind...they would get their robes at the same timeframe as the resurrection but those who had been dead got robes long before.

 

So we're naked in heaven? lol You cannot be conscious of your surroundings without the breath of life in you. You're having a hard time grasping this fact.

Gen 3:19 NIV By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Job 34:14-15 NIV If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, 15all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.
Eccl 12:7 NIV and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


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#80
ewq1938

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So we're naked in heaven?

 

 

Did you already forget the robes mentioned?

 

 

You cannot be conscious of your surroundings without the breath of life in you.

 

 

 

Again, you don't need a body to be conscious of your surroundings. Soul sleep is a false doctrine rejected by Christianity. What religion/denomination are you? Christadelphian?


Edited by ewq1938, 30 July 2015 - 04:01 PM.

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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#81
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Did you already forget the robes mentioned?

 

Let's tackle post 79 first and the breath of life.


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#82
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Again, you don't need a body to be conscious of your surroundings. Soul sleep is a false doctrine rejected by Christianity. What religion/denomination are you? Christadelphian?

 

I'm a born again christian who studies Hebrew and Greek, and I'm simply going by what scripture plainly says about the breath of life.


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#83
ewq1938

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Let's tackle post 79 first and the breath of life.

 

 

That's been handled already. Your belief is incorrect.

 

 

What religion/denomination are you? Christadelphian? Seventh day Adventist? Jehovah's witness? Those are the only ones I know of that teach soul sleep.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#84
ewq1938

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I'm a born again christian who studies Hebrew and Greek

 

But is there a name for your denomination/church? Soul sleep is not taught in Protestant or Lutheran churches.

 

Do you also keep the Sabbath?


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#85
ATP

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But is there a name for your denomination/church? Soul sleep is not taught in Protestant or Lutheran churches.

 

Do you also keep the Sabbath?

 

Good way to dodge post 79.


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#86
ewq1938

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Good way to dodge post 79.

 

 

Who is the one dodging? I answered that before and a second time in post 80 yet you are dodging my question about your denomination. It's important for me to know your background so I can better understand why you believe as you do.


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#87
ATP

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Who is the one dodging? I answered that before and a second time in post 80 yet you are dodging my question about your denomination. It's important for me to know your background so I can better understand why you believe as you do.

 

Why I believe we cannot exist without the breath of life in us? Are you being serious?


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#88
ewq1938

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Why I believe we cannot exist without the breath of life in us? Are you being serious?

 

 

Yes. Now, will you answer the question or not?

But is there a name for your denomination/church?

Do you also keep the Sabbath?


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Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
                               "my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
                               "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
                               "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35,  1 Corinthians 10:4


#89
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Yes. Now, will you answer the question or not?

But is there a name for your denomination/church?

Do you also keep the Sabbath?

 

It's funny. I've been on forums for three years now, and it's the same old routine. If someone doesn't agree with you they always ask you if you're a Jehovah Witness lol.


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#90
The Barrd

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Yes. Now, will you answer the question or not?

But is there a name for your denomination/church?

Do you also keep the Sabbath?

 

Now, this is interesting.

When I asked you this same question, you told me you were "non-denominational", and I accepted that.

Now, I am curious...

What does "non-denominational" mean to you?


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"Lord, I have no gift to bring

Only this little song I sing."

"My child," gently smiled the Lord,

"Go, and sing it to the world."

                                       The Barrd





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