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The gift of tongues


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#1
Josho

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Hmm just a short testimony, but i was around 10 maybe a little older when i got the gift of speaking in tongues, mum was still reading the bible to me at that point haha. 1 time she was reading the Bible to me in bed, and after she finished she laid hands on me, and asked God to give me the gift of tongues, and I started speaking in tongues, in an unknown language it was pretty awesome and i hadn't done it for a while after that though, but 1-2 years ago it came back to me and i have been doing it ever since, i believe I never lost it though, I just wasn't using it and now i am again. So praise God  :D 

It would be interesting to know about you other people on these forums, when and where did you 1st get the gift of tongues? 


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#2
OzSpen

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Hmm just a short testimony, but i was around 10 maybe a little older when i got the gift of speaking in tongues, mum was still reading the bible to me at that point haha. 1 time she was reading the Bible to me in bed, and after she finished she laid hands on me, and asked God to give me the gift of tongues, and I started speaking in tongues, in an unknown language it was pretty awesome and i hadn't done it for a while after that though, but 1-2 years ago it came back to me and i have been doing it ever since, i believe I never lost it though, I just wasn't using it and now i am again. So praise God  :D 

It would be interesting to know about you other people on these forums, when
and where did you 1st get the gift of tongues? 

 

Josho,

 

1 Cor 12:30 (ESV) asks, 'Do all speak with tongues?' The Greek anticipates a 'No' answer. Why? There is a diversity of gifts and not all have the gift of tongues. It would be a strange body if it was dominated by one or very few physical functions. It would be a strange body of Christ if certain gifts were favoured over others.

 

'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues' (1 Cor 14:39 NIV).

 

I have not been given the gift of tongues, which requires the gift of interpretation when the church gathers (1 Cor 14:13 NIV).

 

Oz


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#3
Josho

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Josho,

 

1 Cor 12:30 (ESV) asks, 'Do all speak with tongues?' The Greek anticipates a 'No' answer. Why? There is a diversity of gifts and not all have the gift of tongues. It would be a strange body if it was dominated by one or very few physical functions. It would be a strange body of Christ if certain gifts were favoured over others.

 

'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues' (1 Cor 14:39 NIV).

 

I have not been given the gift of tongues, which requires the gift of interpretation when the church gathers (1 Cor 14:13 NIV).

 

Oz

OzSpen I'm aware not all speak in tongues, and their are different gifts, and God is fine with that, but this was a question aimed at other people who do have the gift of speaking in tongues, sorry if that wasn't clear..   :D


Edited by Josho, 18 December 2016 - 11:13 PM.

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#4
waterlilyoflife

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The Bible says that when people speak in tongues there is suppose to be an interpreter present to say what the tongues mean. Tongues is the language of angels, it is praising God in angel language. Paul said we should speak to each other in our own language to be understood, so new comers can understand the sermon, hear the words and be saved. my mom went to a holiness church with her grandmother when she was 10 and heard the speaking in tongues, it scared her.


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#5
Deborah_

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Hi Josho, I missed this when you first posted it.

 

When I became a Christian 40-ish years ago there was a lot of discussion (and controversy) about baptism in the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I really wanted to be filled with the Spirit but nothing ever happened when I asked God to do it. Then I read a book (I forget the title now) where the author pointed out that many people don't have interesting or spectacular experiences when they are converted, and it's just the same when people are filled with the Spirit - sometimes it's an amazing experience and sometimes it isn't. We are filled with the Spirit by faith, just as we are saved by faith - NOT by experiences!

Having read that, I immediately prayed (I was in bed at the time) and asked God to fill me with His Spirit, but when nothing happened I just said 'Thankyou' and went to sleep. The following afternoon, I was suddenly filled with an urge to praise God and began to speak in tongues for the first time.

 

It's a gift that I've never used in public, just as a personal prayer language. It has been immensely helpful to me, as I am not by nature a talkative person and for that reason I have always found prayer a struggle. But the Holy Spirit loosens my tongue!


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"Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness." (Colossians 2:6,7)

 

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#6
Josho

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Hi Josho, I missed this when you first posted it.

 

When I became a Christian 40-ish years ago there was a lot of discussion (and controversy) about baptism in the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I really wanted to be filled with the Spirit but nothing ever happened when I asked God to do it. Then I read a book (I forget the title now) where the author pointed out that many people don't have interesting or spectacular experiences when they are converted, and it's just the same when people are filled with the Spirit - sometimes it's an amazing experience and sometimes it isn't. We are filled with the Spirit by faith, just as we are saved by faith - NOT by experiences!

Having read that, I immediately prayed (I was in bed at the time) and asked God to fill me with His Spirit, but when nothing happened I just said 'Thankyou' and went to sleep. The following afternoon, I was suddenly filled with an urge to praise God and began to speak in tongues for the first time.

 

It's a gift that I've never used in public, just as a personal prayer language. It has been immensely helpful to me, as I am not by nature a talkative person and for that reason I have always found prayer a struggle. But the Holy Spirit loosens my tongue!

That's awesome, it's a step of faith by saying "thank you" to the Lord before it happens, and praying in tongues is a great language to pray in when ya can't find the words, when we pray in tongues there is so much going on in the supernatural realm, it also helps to grow your spiritual muscle, it's wonderful.  :D


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#7
Sword

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Well if the gift of tounges is not for all Gods a liar. I dont think its God. God says He has no favourites. God says what He will do for one He will do for all.. Anyone can speak in tounges.


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#8
Deborah_

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Well if the gift of tounges is not for all Gods a liar. I dont think its God. God says He has no favourites. God says what He will do for one He will do for all.. Anyone can speak in tounges.

Well, none of the gifts are for everyone - otherwise we'd all have every single gift and we wouldn't need each other!

 

No one gift - not even the gift of tongues - is a sign of God's special favour. He gives all of us gifts - but they are different for each person.


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"Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness." (Colossians 2:6,7)

 

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#9
Sword

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Where does the bible exclude anyone from any gift?

 

And if you could explain why I would not need anyone if I had all the gifts or anyone else?

 

If you could just give scriptures for all the claims you made please thank you.


Edited by Sword, 17 April 2017 - 01:34 PM.

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#10
Deborah_

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Where does the bible exclude anyone from any gift?

 

And if you could explain why I would not need anyone if I had all the gifts or anyone else?

 

If you could just give scriptures for all the claims you made please thank you.

 

In I Corinthians 12, Paul talks about the diversity of the Body of Christ - how we are all different (verses 7-11), and therefore interdependent (verses17-21). At the end, he asks a number of questions that in the Greek are worded to anticipate the answer 'No' (something almost impossible to bring out in English translation):

"Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Go all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?" (I Corinthians 12:29,30) No, no, no, no, no, no, and no!

 

Clearly none of the gifts is for every Christian.


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"Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness." (Colossians 2:6,7)

 

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#11
Sword

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So how does that say The gifts are not for all? It doesnt say what you think it says. are all saved No. Is it Gods will for all to be saved Yes. Are all sved no. Are all teachers clearly not. But many asume the position as we see in every Christian forum. The gifts are for all but not all walk in them. and with your mind set never will. and worse you are holding people back by saying what you are saying. It no where in scripture says what you are trying to make it say. If yyou were in court cliaming that as a charge it would be thown out.

 

 

Anything you ask in my name I will do it. This is in mant verses. Anything. So depends on what you want. your words are life and death. Are you believeing for life or death. How can you fully represent Christ with no power. You will know them by there fruits. what fruits all the gifts. I so far speak in tounges and lay hands on the sick. I want to have a word of knowledge. Anything you ask. I never even asked for healing. I never asked for tounges. I want it all. I want to FULLY represent the Father here on earth now. How can you if you believe you only get one. and you probably think you might not even get one at all??????? Do you have what you think is YOUR gift? How would you know what your gift is unless God comes along and tells everyone. What do you being a teacher tell people how to find out what there gift is useing scripture? I think that will do for just now.


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#12
Deborah_

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So how does that say The gifts are not for all? It doesnt say what you think it says. are all saved No. Is it Gods will for all to be saved Yes. Are all sved no. Are all teachers clearly not. But many asume the position as we see in every Christian forum. The gifts are for all but not all walk in them. and with your mind set never will. and worse you are holding people back by saying what you are saying. It no where in scripture says what you are trying to make it say. If yyou were in court cliaming that as a charge it would be thown out.

 

 

Anything you ask in my name I will do it. This is in mant verses. Anything. So depends on what you want. your words are life and death. Are you believeing for life or death. How can you fully represent Christ with no power. You will know them by there fruits. what fruits all the gifts. I so far speak in tounges and lay hands on the sick. I want to have a word of knowledge. Anything you ask. I never even asked for healing. I never asked for tounges. I want it all. I want to FULLY represent the Father here on earth now. How can you if you believe you only get one. and you probably think you might not even get one at all??????? Do you have what you think is YOUR gift? How would you know what your gift is unless God comes along and tells everyone. What do you being a teacher tell people how to find out what there gift is useing scripture? I think that will do for just now.

 

Paul is saying it, not me. Are you accusing Paul of "holding people back"?

 

The gifts (as a whole) are for all - and I have never said otherwise.

 

Anything you ask in my name I will do it. This is in mant verses. Anything. So depends on what you want.

 

No, it doesn't. We have to ask in Christ's name - in other words, with His authorisation. And He has not promised to give us absolutely anything we want. As James says, "When you ask, you do not receive" - not because you 'lack faith' but "because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." (James 4:3)

 

As you yourself admit, you do not have all the gifts. Neither do I. But you have some - and so do I. That is normal. Even in the New Testament, Paul and the other apostles seem to have had more gifts than the 'average' believer. We are encouraged to ask for more gifts (I Corinthians 14:1). Some of us are given more gifts than others - but nobody has every single one. What is so terrible about having "only" one or two gifts, if God is clearly using them for His glory and to build up the Church?


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"Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness." (Colossians 2:6,7)

 

https://deborahsbibl...s.wordpress.com


#13
Sword

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Paul is saying it, not me. Are you accusing Paul of "holding people back"?

 

The gifts (as a whole) are for all - and I have never said otherwise.

 

No, it doesn't. We have to ask in Christ's name - in other words, with His authorisation. And He has not promised to give us absolutely anything we want. As James says, "When you ask, you do not receive" - not because you 'lack faith' but "because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." (James 4:3)

 

As you yourself admit, you do not have all the gifts. Neither do I. But you have some - and so do I. That is normal. Even in the New Testament, Paul and the other apostles seem to have had more gifts than the 'average' believer. We are encouraged to ask for more gifts (I Corinthians 14:1). Some of us are given more gifts than others - but nobody has every single one. What is so terrible about having "only" one or two gifts, if God is clearly using them for His glory and to build up the Church?

  God said it through Paul I am niether accusing God or Paul. I am saying you are misteaching it the way you are putting it. It does not say the gifts are NOT for all like you say. Paul is asking do all , The answer is clearly no. Paul is no saying what your implying that the gifts are not for everyone. And no one will ever have all gifts. You are adding that. Anyone CAN have all the gifts We dont have them because we never asked . We dont have them because we wont step out in faith with the gifts.

 

You said

 

"Clearly none of the gifts is for every Christian."

 

So you did say other wise.

 

Then I quoted scripture and you quote the same scripture back at me.

 

Any thing you ask in MY NAME i said. Then you tell me I must ask in Jesus name??? I quoted it. I never said he will give anything we ask, you did. Please dont misqoute me. Please dont read into what I never said.

 

I am reffering to the gifts only not "Anything you ask"

 

Is it in the Fathers will to give us whats good and right for us yes it is. Clearly you can not Fully represent Christ unless you have all the gifts.

 

And clearly I dont have all the gifts because I never asked yet.

 

Did you ask for all the gifts. You cant say yes if you are believeing we cant have them in the first place.

 

What is so terrible if God made the gifts available to all and we dont expect to get them because people are teaching we cant. That is terrible.

 

The answer is not clearly no as you claim.

 

We are encourgad to chase after the gits cleary as you quoted. But thats not what you been claiming from the start. Why because we can have them all.

 

"Some of us are given more gifts than others" It does not say that you said that.

 

 

"- but nobody has every single one." Says you??? I know there are not many with all the gifts as we dont see that every day. But you are wrong to assume there is no one in the whole world with all the gifts just because you never seen it. That is just wrong. You can not make that claim. The gifts are for all if you ernestly seek them and step out in faith with them.


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#14
Deborah_

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  God said it through Paul I am niether accusing God or Paul. I am saying you are misteaching it the way you are putting it. It does not say the gifts are NOT for all like you say. Paul is asking do all , The answer is clearly no. Paul is no saying what your implying that the gifts are not for everyone. And no one will ever have all gifts. You are adding that. Anyone CAN have all the gifts We dont have them because we never asked . We dont have them because we wont step out in faith with the gifts

 

You are not looking at the context. In I Corinthians 12, Paul is talking about the diversity of the Body of Christ. The whole point he is making is that we are not all the same - and God does not intend us to be all the same. If everybody had all the gifts, there would be no diversity. Instead, 'we have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us." (Romans 12:6)

 

 

"Clearly none of the gifts is for every Christian."

 

So you did say other wise.

 

Then I quoted scripture and you quote the same scripture back at me.

 

Any thing you ask in MY NAME i said. Then you tell me I must ask in Jesus name??? I quoted it. I never said he will give anything we ask, you did. Please dont misqoute me. Please dont read into what I never said.

 

I am reffering to the gifts only not "Anything you ask"

 

Is it in the Fathers will to give us whats good and right for us yes it is. 

 

 

 

So where does Jesus say that we can have all the gifts? He gives us what is good and right - but it still doesn't follow that He will give us everything good and right!

 

Clearly you can not Fully represent Christ unless you have all the gifts.

 

I find two problems with this assertion. First, do we really need all the gifts to be representatives of Christ? Who says? That isn't what the gifts are for - they're for building up other believers (I Corinthians 12:7; Ephesians 4:11,12)

 

Secondly, even if that were the case, neither you nor I, as individuals,  need all of them. It's the job of the church, His Body, to represent Him to the world. A church should have all the gifts, but not each individual member. We aren't meant to be one-man-bands; we're meant to function as part of His Body.


Edited by Deborah_, 19 April 2017 - 08:48 AM.

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"Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness." (Colossians 2:6,7)

 

https://deborahsbibl...s.wordpress.com


#15
Wormwood

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Hmmm...seems to me that if we could have all the gifts ourselves by just asking...Paul would have just said as much and the letter to the Corinthians would be much shorter.


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#16
pompadour

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I don't have the gift of tongues. but if I did, and if i could, I would trade it for the gift of healing in a heart beat . I would not reject any gift or blessing from God. but if I could choose.   

Pomp.


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#17
Sword

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Hmmm...seems to me that if we could have all the gifts ourselves by just asking...Paul would have just said as much and the letter to the Corinthians would be much shorter.

 

 

Is that what is done with every other verse? are they all that simple? Its a translation from three other languages. It does not always translate properly in English.


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#18
Sword

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I don't have the gift of tongues. but if I did, and if i could, I would trade it for the gift of healing in a heart beat . I would not reject any gift or blessing from God. but if I could choose.   

Pomp.

 You are commanded to go lay hands on the sick. You already have the gift or healing. What you might not have is faith to believe you can lay hands on the sick. The prayer doesnt get the sick up. Faith does nothing else. Your commisison is to set the captives free. Believers lay hands on the sick and they are healed. Are you a believer pomp? Then you are NOT disqualified other than what you believe. So now you know you have the gift of healing.

If you want the gift of tounges ask God for it and start talking in it. end of story.

 

The gift of tounges is for every believer. Its for your edification.


Edited by Sword, 24 April 2017 - 05:10 AM.

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#19
Sword

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You are not looking at the context. In I Corinthians 12, Paul is talking about the diversity of the Body of Christ. The whole point he is making is that we are not all the same - and God does not intend us to be all the same. If everybody had all the gifts, there would be no diversity. Instead, 'we have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us." (Romans 12:6)

 

 

 

So where does Jesus say that we can have all the gifts? He gives us what is good and right - but it still doesn't follow that He will give us everything good and right!

 

I find two problems with this assertion. First, do we really need all the gifts to be representatives of Christ? Who says? That isn't what the gifts are for - they're for building up other believers (I Corinthians 12:7; Ephesians 4:11,12)

 

Secondly, even if that were the case, neither you nor I, as individuals,  need all of them. It's the job of the church, His Body, to represent Him to the world. A church should have all the gifts, but not each individual member. We aren't meant to be one-man-bands; we're meant to function as part of His Body.

So you are saying God wants diversity in the church. Thats why we dont have all the gifts? That is not from God. Cant you see how silly that looks?

 

'we have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us." (Romans 12:6)

We all naturally fall towards one gift or another, Some have a heart for healing as Pomp said. So did I. Soon as I knew I could I did. I never asked for it. So how did I get it? The bible clearly says believers lay hands on the sick and they will be healed. So I have the gift of healing as does every Christian yes?????

 

The gift of tonuges is for every believer. Yes?

 

You said we cant have all the gifts and then you changed you mind and siad you never said that. And when I quoted you saying it you ignored replying to me on it, and instead came up with another question. It looks like to me you are reading your bible to prove people wrong. Thats a zero. Instead of misquoting scripture why dont you look p what I say and ask God is this right? I already done it and know it.

You said jesus gives us what is right and good. To what point are you quoting this to fit what you believe?

 

So I have shown clearly that the firdt two are available for a fact. So tell me if you need more on it and if you agree or not. that would be a start. Jesus said many times and many things about what is availsable to us. every thing and any thing that is for Gods glory yes? Anything you ask in my name will be give as long as you believe in your heart? Does it say any thing? Does that mean prophecey? Doers in mean we can have tounges?  Does it mean we can have a house? To Gods glory yes it does.

 

You have two problems.

How can you fully represent Christ wiith out all the gifts? You are called to fully represent Him in all things. Do yyou think you can do that with out the gift of knowledge? Or with out decerment? How can you set the person free from a demon who is playing possem with you. Ever heard of that?

 

So if I come to your church and get some peole healed in front of your etes and then tell someone what going on in there life and assure them there child is well and safe in another country. And then I go on to teach how you all can do this as you give time to build up a personal relationship with God. ( Not going to church or doing church stuff that needs done) I am talking about whorshiping God in the bedroom where no one else can hear you say I love you Father.  Do you think that would build up your church or cause diversity? I dont see your two problems there. So your question do we need the gifts to represent Christ  amy answer No. My question do we really need all the gifts to FULLY represent Christ Yes we do. See the differnece between my question and yours. Yours limits us. Mine exposes there always more to come. Futher to go. deeper in Him.

 

Funny how individuals say one minute I am the church and then if it suits all of a sudden we need each other?

 

So you have the gift of tounges you said. and you have the gifet of healing.

 You meet a man who needs a demon cast out. SO you say sorry bud I dont have that gift. Or he needs a word of wisdon for his business. Sorry bud cant help ya. But if you can come back next week theres a guy in our church who has that gift. He might be here next week.

 That is no good to anyone and totally missrepresents Chriust and what Hes done.

We are only liited by what we believe.

 

You talk about how the church should be able to sort it as we have all the different gifts. The church as a whole does an anual out reach. So once a year the Church which means out goers. ( Even though they turned it toatally against what we are ment to be, and made it ingoers) And it try to reach people once a year or twice in some cases. How many get set free with that. So  on the way round the streets one guy needs healing but you went round the other corner and found a guy who needs something else. So what you are saying cant work and hasent worked since a very long time. Its actully pathetic. The gifts are avsailable to anyone. and thats how we represent CHrist. There is NO condemnation here on anyone. We are running a 1600 years approxamitly with out all of this anyway. So its not our fault. But if we are going to limit The full gospel. Then it will continue as is. We need to die to self fully. Not the furry gospel that has been sold the lie that we do nothing. The lie that We are just sinners. The church is full of lies, satans lies. he came to steal kill and destroy/ he can only work with what we give him.. And we willing ly give him plenty.


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#20
Wormwood

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Is that what is done with every other verse? are they all that simple? Its a translation from three other languages. It does not always translate properly in English.

 

I don't know what you are talking about.  Its a translation from one language, Koine Greek.  That has no bearing on what I was talking about.  In fact, the Greek explicitly indicates that not all have the gift of tongues.  The question demands a negative response given Greek grammatical principles.  


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#21
Sword

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I don't know what you are talking about.  Its a translation from one language, Koine Greek.  That has no bearing on what I was talking about.  In fact, the Greek explicitly indicates that not all have the gift of tongues.  The question demands a negative response given Greek grammatical principles.  

 So you think that mean. Not everyone can or will ever speak in tounges.

 

Are are all saved? Is it Gods will for all to be saved? are all saved? So he would be lying if he said all speak in tounges he was stateing the obvious. I am talking about all the verses that are confussing unless you look them up. The average Christian today and since a long time thinks. saved means going to heaven. Without looking it up in the greek can you tell me what it means? The avearge Christian thinks Jesus died so they can go to heaven. So far from the truth. But thats what they think it says in the English. Thats what the avaerage pulpit teaches. Hence all the confusion. I dont think you or many if any know what the word saved means without looking it up. and if you look it up I dont think many if any really belive it either in full. I am only going on what I seen over the last 4 years or little more. Because I just dont see it any where in any churches.

 

So what you think it means isonly staeing a fact. No not all speak in tounges and mainly because there are so many like you teaching we cant. that is a flat out lie. I would gaurentee anyone who comes to me or any others with the same understanding. would have anyone speaking in tounges fairly quickly. I got it on youtube and so can you. So simple to flush away all the lies.

 Ask Father for the gift of tounges and get on with it. Its for edifiying YOU THe Believers. The ones that dont speak are the unbelievers. How simples that. How can you be edified without it? You cant. Same with healing.unbelivers dont see healing.


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#22
tabletalk

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 So you think that mean. Not everyone can or will ever speak in tounges.

 

Are are all saved? Is it Gods will for all to be saved? are all saved? So he would be lying if he said all speak in tounges he was stateing the obvious. I am talking about all the verses that are confussing unless you look them up. The average Christian today and since a long time thinks. saved means going to heaven. Without looking it up in the greek can you tell me what it means? The avearge Christian thinks Jesus died so they can go to heaven. So far from the truth. But thats what they think it says in the English. Thats what the avaerage pulpit teaches. Hence all the confusion. I dont think you or many if any know what the word saved means without looking it up. and if you look it up I dont think many if any really belive it either in full. I am only going on what I seen over the last 4 years or little more. Because I just dont see it any where in any churches.

 

So what you think it means isonly staeing a fact. No not all speak in tounges and mainly because there are so many like you teaching we cant. that is a flat out lie. I would gaurentee anyone who comes to me or any others with the same understanding. would have anyone speaking in tounges fairly quickly. I got it on youtube and so can you. So simple to flush away all the lies.

 Ask Father for the gift of tounges and get on with it. Its for edifiying YOU THe Believers. The ones that dont speak are the unbelievers. How simples that. How can you be edified without it? You cant. Same with healing.unbelivers dont see healing.

"I got it on youtube and so can you."  

 

Then that's the god you worship, youtube. 


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#23
Sword

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"I got it on youtube and so can you."  

 

Then that's the god you worship, youtube. 

 

 

 

 

Thats a very shallow statement. Very insincere. You know nothing about me and make a statement like that.  Why would you talk like that to a another Christian, assuming you are a Christian? Are you a Christian? You never heard my full testimony on how I got to speak in tougnes and you ridicule me. Just a little not to the Lady I spoke to in the Chat shout box. This is the kinda thing I am talking about. The horrible way Christians talk to each other as If Christ is never coming back. If me you and Jesus was siting together would you speak like that to me? What are you thinking Hes not coming back?

 

Dearie me man.


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#24
Wormwood

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 So you think that mean. Not everyone can or will ever speak in tounges.

 

Are are all saved? Is it Gods will for all to be saved? are all saved? So he would be lying if he said all speak in tounges he was stateing the obvious. I am talking about all the verses that are confussing unless you look them up. The average Christian today and since a long time thinks. saved means going to heaven. Without looking it up in the greek can you tell me what it means? The avearge Christian thinks Jesus died so they can go to heaven. So far from the truth. But thats what they think it says in the English. Thats what the avaerage pulpit teaches. Hence all the confusion. I dont think you or many if any know what the word saved means without looking it up. and if you look it up I dont think many if any really belive it either in full. I am only going on what I seen over the last 4 years or little more. Because I just dont see it any where in any churches.

 

So what you think it means isonly staeing a fact. No not all speak in tounges and mainly because there are so many like you teaching we cant. that is a flat out lie. I would gaurentee anyone who comes to me or any others with the same understanding. would have anyone speaking in tounges fairly quickly. I got it on youtube and so can you. So simple to flush away all the lies.

 Ask Father for the gift of tounges and get on with it. Its for edifiying YOU THe Believers. The ones that dont speak are the unbelievers. How simples that. How can you be edified without it? You cant. Same with healing.unbelivers dont see healing.

 

No, not all are saved.  Yes, God wants all to be saved.  We know this because Scripture tells us so.  Does God want all to have the gift of tongues?  No.  The passage clearly tells us that the Spirit is responsible for giving gifts "as he wills."  Clearly it is not God's desire to give everyone all the gifts or the gift of tongues.  The passage, again, implies a negative response.  Moreover, there is NO passage in the NT showing people being encouraged to pray for tongues. Rather, we see tongues fall on people without coaching and without expectation.  The idea that we need to coach and encourage people to speak ecstatic utterances that have no human meaning is simply found nowhere in the Bible.  So I don't know how you can say I am to blame for people not speaking in tongues.  Show me a precedent.  

 

So what does our discussion have to do with soteriology?  Salvation means exactly what the English indicates.... to be saved from something.  What you fail to understand is that not only are we saved FROM something (namely, the wrath of God on a sinful world), but we are saved FOR something (good works, glory and God's kingdom).  The common understanding of "heaven" is basically a paradise where people dwell with God for eternity.  So yes, we are saved so we can spend eternity with God.  Call it the new earth, call it heaven, call it Abrahams bosom....it doesn't really matter.  The point is that people are saved FROM wrath and FOR glory.

 

  “Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” (Romans 5:9–11, ESV)  

 

  “For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.” (Romans 8:24–25, ESV)  

 

  “But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13–14, ESV)  

 

  “who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,” (2 Timothy 1:9, ESV)  

 

 

Look, you can claim that I am the one causing people to not receive tongues all you want.  The fact is I don't teach people they can't speak in tongues.  In all honesty, I don't really teach on the topic at all.  However, when asked about those specific verses, I simply teach what the passages say.  They clearly and explicitly say that not all speak in tongues and its the Spirit who determines which gifts are given to which people.  Not all people have the same gift.  The Spirit gives a diversity of gifts so we can build each other.  In fact, Paul is teaching the OPPOSITE of what you claim.  He is rebuking the Corinthians for quarreling about tongues and is telling them that if they are going to be zealous about a gift, they should stop being zealous about tongues, because it is for self edification.  Rather, they should seek to prophesy.  So, the text is telling us that not only do not all speak in tongues, but that people shouldn't even desire that gift above other gifts because it doesn't really bless others.  If we really love other believers, we should desire gifts that can help them and not gifts that focus on ourselves.  That is the point.  So, the issue you are having is not with my teaching, but the Bible's teaching on this subject.  Its fine if you disagree, but don't say I am the one at fault here.  I am simply explaining what I feel is the clear teaching of Scripture on this topic.


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#25
tabletalk

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Thats a very shallow statement. Very insincere. You know nothing about me and make a statement like that.  Why would you talk like that to a another Christian, assuming you are a Christian? Are you a Christian? You never heard my full testimony on how I got to speak in tougnes and you ridicule me. Just a little not to the Lady I spoke to in the Chat shout box. This is the kinda thing I am talking about. The horrible way Christians talk to each other as If Christ is never coming back. If me you and Jesus was siting together would you speak like that to me? What are you thinking Hes not coming back?

 

Dearie me man.

Sword: I did make a very shallow statement about you. I'd like to explain what I think about your statements;  but first to ask you to forgive me for offending you and accusing you of worshipping you-tube.?   I am sorry I did that. And, yes I believe the Lord Jesus, so I am called a Christian. 

 

I have no desire to speak in tongues. So, because of this statement of yours I wonder if you consider me a Christian, saved by grace?   You stated this: " Ask Father for the gift of tounges and get on with it. Its for edifiying YOU THe Believers. The ones that dont speak are the unbelievers. How simples that. How can you be edified without it? You cant. Same with healing.unbelivers dont see healing." 

 

"The ones that don't speak are the unbelievers." Since many professing Christians, including me, do not speak in tongues, can they be saved? 

 

 

Also, you said: "I would gaurentee anyone who comes to me or any others with the same understanding. would have anyone speaking in tounges fairly quickly. I got it on youtube and so can you."

 

This is what I object to; that you say to someone to ask the Father for the gift of tongues, then say you "got it on youtube and so can you". This seems to be denying the power of God, by using a gimmick to obtain the gift of tongues. This seems like a lack of faith. So, my above statement to you about worshipping You-Tube means that a person worships the words of men (You-Tube) or the word of God. If I were going to ask God for the gift of tongues, I would not look to any other source to make it happen. 


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#26
Sword

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Sword: I did make a very shallow statement about you. I'd like to explain what I think about your statements;  but first to ask you to forgive me for offending you and accusing you of worshipping you-tube.?   I am sorry I did that. And, yes I believe the Lord Jesus, so I am called a Christian.

 

 

You never offended me. I pointed out the way Christians in forums often speak to each other. Pleased your a Christian and I accept your appology.

 

 

 

I have no desire to speak in tongues. So, because of this statement of yours I wonder if you consider me a Christian, saved by grace?   You stated this: " Ask Father for the gift of tounges and get on with it. Its for edifiying YOU THe Believers. The ones that dont speak are the unbelievers. How simples that. How can you be edified without it? You cant. Same with healing.unbelivers dont see healing." 

 

 

If you tell me your a Christian then you are . I will not judge you. You clearly said tounges is not for every one. I believe they are. Point I make is I believe they are and have them. You dont believe they are and dont have them. why becuase you dont believe they are for everyone. So that make you an unbeliever in this point. Your a Christian and I will not take that awy from anyone. You dont have tounges because you dont think its possible. So that makes you an unbeliever in tougnes for all. Nothing to do with you as a Christian. There are many Christian unbelievers in many things. Tounges,healing,prophesy etc.
 

 

"The ones that don't speak are the unbelievers." Since many professing Christians, including me, do not speak in tongues, can they be saved? 

 

 

 If your a Christian you are saved weither you talk in tounges or not. But because of misteaching and misunderstanding. You now stand on the unbeliveing side of tounges for all and any.

 

 

 

Also, you said: "I would gaurentee anyone who comes to me or any others with the same understanding. would have anyone speaking in tounges fairly quickly. I got it on youtube and so can you."

 

This is what I object to; that you say to someone to ask the Father for the gift of tongues, then say you "got it on youtube and so can you". This seems to be denying the power of God, by using a gimmick to obtain the gift of tongues. This seems like a lack of faith. So, my above statement to you about worshipping You-Tube means that a person worships the words of men (You-Tube) or the word of God. If I were going to ask God for the gift of tongues, I would not look to any other source to make it happen.

 

 

So as I said already . Just like the pharises Christians like you need to see it to believe it. Funny though how easy it is for people to beklieve Jesus died for them so easily. And would fight that its a fact I am saved brother oh yes Jesus died for me for sure. No way you can take that from me man. But if we dont see other people experiances. Its not true. why cant we just except that it might be true go to God and ask. Father I dont get this. Is it true. Lead me Lord and teach me. No we know better right of the bat every time we have an answer to every thing in here and every other forum. and every other church circle.

 How is recieving the gift of tounges on YT denying the power of God when in fact it revealed the power of God in my life and in many others?

I recive the gift of tounges as I was lead to YT and you call it a gimmick? (  I am not offended) Just asking you to explian how you have this knowledge about me and others who recived and were lead to this gift by this means? And can call it a gimmick?

How does it seem like a lack of faith if I recived the gift by going there and doing what I was lead to. Far as I can see I was lead and went through faith and recieved through faith. Please explian in more detail how you came to your ascertation?

 

It was a woman and two men who lead me into speacking in tougnes, 3 vids. But I was lead there by the Holy Ghost. I have the fruit of it and you will know them by there fruit. So you say sorry for they for accusing me. But now you accused me of whorshiping men and still you dont know the full testimony of the gift I recevied?

 

So I can assume that you have never asked God for the gift of tounges. Well why dont you start by asking God if its for you. And see what God says. You are saying gifts is not for all. Do you know in your belief systen which gift is for you? Do any of the rest of you in this conversation know what gift is for you. How do you know. If you were lead. How would I know if you were lead or is it just what you think. See how mucjh confusion comes from what we think about what someone else says the bible says. I think we should let others talk. and ask God if they are correct. We like to jump right in and tell others  they are wrong. Just because we never experianced what they are talking about.


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#27
Sword

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Does God want all to have the gift of tongues?  No.  The passage clearly tells us that the Spirit is responsible for giving gifts "as he wills."  Clearly it is not God's desire to give everyone all the gifts or the gift of tongues.  The passage, again, implies a negative response.

 

You need to quote the verse you said thats says God said no to all having tounges? Where did God say no to all having tounges? Which verse is that in? All God gifts come from avoe correct. I dont see negitive there at all.
 

 

 Moreover, there is NO passage in the NT showing people being encouraged to pray for tongues. Rather, we see tongues fall on people without coaching and without expectation.  The idea that we need to coach and encourage people to speak ecstatic utterances that have no human meaning is simply found nowhere in the Bible.  So I don't know how you can say I am to blame for people not speaking in tongues.  Show me a precedent.

 

Sorry but you are wrong here man.

 

Paul says here in 1Cor 14:5 I want you all to speak in tounges. Why would Paul say that if it was as you say? Did paul say that and God never ? Paul only says what God wants. God clearly says here I want you all talking in tougnes. And Paul is doing the opposite to what you said. Paul is coaching for all to get tounges. Speaking in tounges is 100% way of getting YOU/Mam /Flesh and selfishness out of the way. So it is not as you say a selfish thing to edify your self. Here is how you are to blame for people not speaking in tounges. You are a leader here and you are saying its not for all. So because of people looking to leaders such as you for direction. You are keeping them from the gifts. Thats fairly clear. You are assuming the role of teacher here. I will speak on that a little later.

 

So what does our discussion have to do with soteriology?  Salvation means exactly what the English indicates.... to be saved from something.  What you fail to understand is that not only are we saved FROM something (namely, the wrath of God on a sinful world), but we are saved FOR something (good works, glory and God's kingdom).  The common understanding of "heaven" is basically a paradise where people dwell with God for eternity.  So yes, we are saved so we can spend eternity with God.  Call it the new earth, call it heaven, call it Abrahams bosom....it doesn't really matter.  The point is that people are saved FROM wrath and FOR glory.

 

 

 Well I think I was clear on this in my statement. I was talking about unbeliers, who treat the gifts as not for all like you do. and it is the same with one word saved.

Salvation means so much more than the English says. heres the soarse. http://biblehub.com/greek/4982.htm

 

So You you claimed I fail to see that I am saved from and for. How do you know what I know? Why did you jump in and make a ludicrus staement like that? You dont know me. You have no idea what I know or dont know.

Jesus never died so you get a ticket for heaven. Jesus died to restore the Kindom of heaven. Jesus died to restore you to you Original Created Value. (OCV)

Yes we are saved from Gods wrath and all you quoted. Great. But the word saved means we are healed. We are preseved. We are rescued. The fact that most Christian think its a ticket to heaven is very evident in church circles. But what is ignored and activly argued against is we are healed. By His stripes we are healed. And from there we go on to lay hands on the sick and every thing changes from there as we become like Him and act and walk like Him and grow into Christ. We fully represent Him every where we go. This is the huge part we all missed and obviously I was correct you never mentioned it. No one is blaming anyone it all comes from misundestanding and all the misteaching that has gone out from all the churches and is still going on.

 

 

 

Look, you can claim that I am the one causing people to not receive tongues all you want.  The fact is I don't teach people they can't speak in tongues.  In all honesty, I don't really teach on the topic at all.  However, when asked about those specific verses, I simply teach what the passages say.

 

 

 

 

You are assumiong the role of teacher and many many others are doing the same me included. I fully understand that Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. And am ready to stand for that. Why do we treat this verse so lightly. For 23 years I thought I knew it well. $ years later. I know almost infinitly more than I thought I did 4 years ago. ANd theres more. So I dont teach on what I dont know. I dont debate on what I dont know. I talk/teach on what I do know.

 

You said I dont teach then said I teach. Fact is you do teach. And you will have to stand for it. as I will. This is why we must listen to others then take it to God. But what we do is find verses to back up what we believe is true and dont even ask God for help with it as most of us dont even have a personal relationship with God or ever hear Him. Sorry if I sound harsh, But hear my heart. And ask God is it true. any one tonight can ask for tounges and will recive it in faith. Then just open your mouth and let Holy Ghost flow in those silly sounding syllables, it will work for you. Would be nice if you all done it I would expect many testimonys tommorow.
 

 

They clearly and explicitly say that not all speak in tongues and its the Spirit who determines which gifts are given to which people.  Not all people have the same gift.  The Spirit gives a diversity of gifts so we can build each other.

 

Yes Paul said not all speak in tonuges as I said same as are all saved? No fact. I know all it says that you are quoting. But why are you leaning towards the negitive? You are looking up scripture to fit what you belive and you WILL find tham and make them fit. Paul clearly said again. Cor 14:5 I want you all to speak in tonuges. Is that a fact yes or no? He also said there are better gifts. He never said you will not get this or that or you will only get one. How are we to know what is for us if people teach not all with get. I could quote all the scriptures that tie into I will give you every good gift, ask in my name any thing you ask in my name etc. I will if you need them. If you know the heart of God There is NOTHING He will hold back. we all quote if He gave his Son what would He hold back. Then we say yeah But. Buts are devils. Yeah but He wont give you tounges. Really? Gos said he has no favs. What He will do for one He will do for all. God telling lies or are we? whos the liar. Keep in mind there is NO condemnation in Christ. He never came to condem us.

 

In fact, Paul is teaching the OPPOSITE of what you claim.  He is rebuking the Corinthians for quarreling about tongues and is telling them that if they are going to be zealous about a gift, they should stop being zealous about tongues, because it is for self edification.  Rather, they should seek to prophesy.  So, the text is telling us that not only do not all speak in tongues, but that people shouldn't even desire that gift above other gifts because it doesn't really bless others.

 

No paul is not teaching the opposite. He is telling them tounges is not the big one. You clian self edification as if it is bad. You are contradicting the meaning of edification. Is edifcation ever bad for you? No. Its to build you up. We all need built up. Its good and from God. You cant get it wrong praying in tounges. Its never about you. Its actully about dying to self. So you are in contradiction as to what it is even for. tounges is to build up the body Church. Tounges for the individual is to build him/her up. So if A person has tounges and prays in tounges you are saying they are only for them selves. Why would God give it if thats all it is for?
 

 

If we really love other believers, we should desire gifts that can help them and not gifts that focus on ourselves.  That is the point.  So, the issue you are having is not with my teaching, but the Bible's teaching on this subject.  Its fine if you disagree, but don't say I am the one at fault here.  I am simply explaining what I feel is the clear teaching of Scripture on this topic.

 

Ahh Now love. sweet. First as I said you are contradicting scripure by saying tounges is only for us. Scripture does not say what you are implying here as a teacher of the bible. So its not the point.

Now all of a sudden we can desire the gifts but just not tounges, that makes zero sense man? No my issue is with your teaching. I have no issue with what Gods word says ever anywhere. I am sorry you think I am calling you out here. But I must . You have assumed the platform and role as teacher. And you are not telling what the bible says. You are telling everyone who reads this that YOU are correct and I am wrong. And the last thing I have is the bible says we dont go on FEELINGS and warns against it, and you are saying you do. Ok thats up to you. Your teaching is not to clear.

 

I would like to finnish with asking you if you know what you gift is? When you believe we only get one. What is your gift and how did you get it. You said If we really love believers etc. So I ers lay hands on the sick and the shall recover. So I start laying hands on the sick and they start recovering. Whats the chances eh? My hearts to heal and it works. The gifts are for all and we naturaly lean towards one. I am expecting yours is going to be healing. Just guessing though. Because my heart if for healing the sick. And I never asked for it. I was shown one verse that lead to many verses on healing.   our hearts desire tends to walk towards one or another. Thats the first gift you will walk in. God says He will give YOU the desires of Your heart. The gifts are for all. No question about it. I know a man who had all the gifts working, before he even knew they were in the bible. All of your thought and teaching came from the pulpit. all of what I believe came from people who teach what they walk in.


Edited by Sword, Yesterday, 08:22 AM.

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#28
tabletalk

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Sword: Thank you for accepting my apology.


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#29
OzSpen

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Where does the bible exclude anyone from any gift?

 

And if you could explain why I would not need anyone if I had all the gifts or anyone else?

 

If you could just give scriptures for all the claims you made please thank you.

 

Sword,

 

You've asked a couple of good questions here. The Bible provides answers to your questions, but you need to understand the Greek grammar that is used in 1 Cor 12:28-30.

 

The Greek text of I Cor 12:29 begins with μὴ πάντες (me pantes) the me expects a negative answer. Not all are apostles, prophets, etc.

 

The Greek of 1 Cor 12:30 regarding tongues and interpretation also begins with μὴ πάντες. It states μὴ πάντες γλώσσαις λαλοῦσιν; μὴ πάντες διερμηνεύουσιν (me pantes glossais lalousin; me pantes diepmeneusousin). This is literally: not all tongues speak; not all interpret.

 

When you don't understand the Greek constructions, that causes you to presume some issues about all not speaking in tongues.

 

The biblical text in the original language of 1 Cor 12:28-30 states that not all will be apostles, prophets, teachers, work miracles, have the gifts of healing, speak in tongues, interpret (tongues). How do I know? The grammar tells me so!

 

Throughout 1 Cor 12 there is an emphasis on 'varieties of gifts' (v 4) and the one body has many members (v 12) and 'the body does not consist of one member but of many' (v 14).

 

Therefore, not all Christians will speak in tongues.

 

Oz


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#30
Sword

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Thanks for your reply but what you said has been said already. Iforrest said the same thing about the negitive.

And I never said ever that all would/will speak in tounges. The grammer may tell you what you think it does that facts are tounges are for all, but all will not speak in tounges. same as every gift not all will lay hands on the sick forsnt mean its not for us . It is. All the gifts are for all who will walk in them. You added nothing that wsnt said already. I dont know if you read the full thread.

 

God clearly said I want you all to talk in tounges. But Oz said its not true?

 

http://www.scripture4all.org/

 

This is a good soarse, interliner scripture analizer


Edited by Sword, Today, 12:30 AM.

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