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The Real Gospel…

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#1
skypair

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So can I just put a plug in here for the real gospel Acts 2:36-40? There are so many "Christian" gospels out there that it is hard for anyone to really know whether they have obeyed God unto salvation.

In Acts 2:36-37a, Peter, the Comforter/Holy Spirit, convicts them "of sin, righteousness, and judgment" (Jn 16:8-10) and they were "prickked in their hearts" because they BELIEVED the gospel.

In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

Acts 2:39 tells us why Acts 2:38 is part of the gospel message because "these promises are to you, and your children, and to those who are afar off"

Then Acts 2:40 commands us to "save yourselves from this untoward generation," which was Judaism in that day, by being baptized into the body of Christ, the church.

 

skypair


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#2
skypair

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I really posted this because the SBC operates under 2 gospels — one for Calvinists ("faith alone") and one for Traditionalist Baptists ("Repent") .. Calvinists/Sardis having taken over from Philadelphia in recent years.

 

skypair


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#3
Stranger

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I really posted this because the SBC operates under 2 gospels — one for Calvinists ("faith alone") and one for Traditionalist Baptists ("Repent") .. Calvinists/Sardis having taken over from Philadelphia in recent years.

 

skypair

 

I'm curious as to what you mean when you say, "Calvinists/Sardis having taken over from Philedelphia".  I recognize you're alluding to two of the 7 churches.

 

Stranger


Edited by Stranger, 12 January 2017 - 12:25 PM.

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#4
skypair

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I'm curious as to what you mean when you say, "Calvinists/Sardis having taken over from Philedelphia".  I recognize you're alluding to two of the 7 churches.

My view is that, in the SBC, the liberals who were fought off in the 1980's are now back in charge -- and are a combination of Sardis/Reform and Rich/Laodicean ignorant of God.

 

skypair


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#5
Stranger

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My view is that, in the SBC, the liberals who were fought off in the 1980's are now back in charge -- and are a combination of Sardis/Reform and Rich/Laodicean ignorant of God.

 

skypair

 

I was a member of SBC in the 70's and remember the fight.  This is part of the problem of having a SBC Convention over all SBC churches.   When the convention is corrupted, then it tends to corrupt all its local churches.

 

Stranger


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#6
7angels

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So can I just put a plug in here for the real gospel Acts 2:36-40? There are so many "Christian" gospels out there that it is hard for anyone to really know whether they have obeyed God unto salvation.

In Acts 2:36-37a, Peter, the Comforter/Holy Spirit, convicts them "of sin, righteousness, and judgment" (Jn 16:8-10) and they were "prickked in their hearts" because they BELIEVED the gospel.

In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

Acts 2:39 tells us why Acts 2:38 is part of the gospel message because "these promises are to you, and your children, and to those who are afar off"

Then Acts 2:40 commands us to "save yourselves from this untoward generation," which was Judaism in that day, by being baptized into the body of Christ, the church.

 

skypair

i have a few questions for you on things that are posted above.  

 

you say In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

 

how can we receive justification if we are already justified in Christ?  if we receive justification then aren't we earning it instead of receiving it as a gift?  rom 4:25.  

 

God bless


Edited by 7angels, 13 January 2017 - 07:31 AM.

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#7
skypair

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I was a member of SBC in the 70's and remember the fight.  This is part of the problem of having a SBC Convention over all SBC churches.   When the convention is corrupted, then it tends to corrupt all its local churches.

Absolutely!  I'm with you.  The problem I see is that there are now 2 gospels in the SBC.  That is the reason for this thread.   There is only one gospel .. and I am suggesting that it MUST be or follow the pattern of Acts 2:36-40.

 

Compounding the problem is Jn 20:23.   When Jesus gave His disciples that Holy Spirit (20:21), He next gave them the ability to remit sins in heaven or retain sins according to their discernment.  We see how this worked at Pentecost (3000 added to the church).  But here are some other passages that press the issue:  

 

1) Philip and the eunuch.  What did Philip say to the sunuch when the eunuch wanted to be baptized?  He said, "If you believe with all your heart."  This is a testimony that he had not just changed his mind and believed in Christ but that he had changed his heart — his soul was saved. (Acts 6)  

 

2)  Peter and Simon Magus, remember?  Simon had believed and been baptized but Peter told him that he wasn't saved saying, "You have no part or lot in this matter" and insisted that he REPENT "if perhaps God the thought of your HEART may be forgiven thee."  There's that "heart" — soul salvation — again. (Acts 8)  

 

And there is that discernment that Christ, I believe, gives to, at least pastors who are born again, to know whether someone else is saved or not.  In fact, Paul seems to echo this when he said, "But the spiritual man judges all things yet he himself is judged of no man." (1Cor 2:15)

 

skypair


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#8
bbyrd009

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i have a few questions for you on things that are posted above.  

 

you say In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

 

how can we receive justification if we are already justified in Christ?  if we receive justification then aren't we earning it instead of receiving it as a gift?  rom 4:25.  

 

God bless

will the real Gospel please stand up lol


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#9
skypair

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i have a few questions for you on things that are posted above.  

 

you say In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

 

how can we receive justification if we are already justified in Christ?  if we receive justification then aren't we earning it instead of receiving it as a gift?  rom 4:25.  

 

God bless

I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. :(  

 

Our sins are forgiven in God's eyes .. but they are not forgiven in our souls.  The whole purpose of justification through repentance is to "reconcile" ourselves to God (2Cor 5:20) .. meaning that we our conscience is "washed" pure from sin (Titus 3:5) and we are given the Holy Spirit of God in place of our old sin nature.

 

This reconciliation turning from our thoughts and ways (Isa 55:7) makes us "sons" and God gives gifts only to His own children.  So before we are given gifts, God gives us nothing.   That makes perfect sense, right?  Does God give gifts to His enemies — which we were before we believed and then repented?

 

skypair


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#10
bbyrd009

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those you will wish to be someday are risking their lives in schemes of peaceful resistance.

 

 

it might be useful to examine what you actually repented of. if anything. there is a man who puts his house in order, sweeps up, gets the cobwebs out of the corner, and then becomes seven times worse off than he was before. Who is this guy?


Edited by bbyrd009, 19 January 2017 - 08:31 AM.

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#11
skypair

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it might be useful to examine what you actually repented of. if anything. there is a man who puts his house in order, sweeps up, gets the cobwebs out of the corner, and then becomes seven times worse off than he was before. Who is this guy?

Who was this guy?  Jesus was talking about "this wicked generation," (Mt 12:45) the house of Israel.   Lk 11:14-26 makes it even clearer.  Jesus had been casting out devils.  Likewise, while Jesus lived, He drove many of hte "unclean spirits" out of Israel taking their armor, their strength, with Him.  But when He died, the unclean spirit brought 7 more spirits back into the Pharisees and they took off against Jesus with 7 times more vengeance than they had gone after Him.  Notice in Lk 11:23 .. "those that gather not with me scatter."  Well, that is what happened to the disciples once Jesus was dead, right?

 

There were also converts among the Pharisees who gathered with Jesus after His death.

 

Anyway, this doesn't have to do with Christians.  When the Spirit "sweeps and garnishes" the house, He takes up permanent residence therein.

 

skypair


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#12
7angels

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I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. :(

 

Our sins are forgiven in God's eyes .. but they are not forgiven in our souls.  The whole purpose of justification through repentance is to "reconcile" ourselves to God (2Cor 5:20) .. meaning that we our conscience is "washed" pure from sin (Titus 3:5) and we are given the Holy Spirit of God in place of our old sin nature.

 

This reconciliation turning from our thoughts and ways (Isa 55:7) makes us "sons" and God gives gifts only to His own children.  So before we are given gifts, God gives us nothing.   That makes perfect sense, right?  Does God give gifts to His enemies — which we were before we believed and then repented?

 

skypair

wait minute.  were we or were we not reconcile to God through Christ?  if what you say is true when you say "The whole purpose of justification through repentance is to "reconcile" ourselves to God."  then it is we ourselves who are earning it.  

 

where are you getting your philosophy from that says our sin are forgiven in God's eyes but not forgiven in our souls?  it is God who convicts us of our wrong doing correct?  if so then once God forgives us He is no longer condemning us correct?  so who is condemning your soul to keep making you feel guilty then?  was it God?  no it is the devil trying to convince you that Jesus' blood was not good enough for you and your sin is just too great.  it is just a trick the devil uses to keep us from experiencing the God has for us.  

 

again we did not exchange our sin nature for the Holy Spirit.  the Holy Spirit made us new creatures.  now we just need to get rid of the bad habits we learned in the sin nature and start reaching for the best God has for us.

 

​you also say God does not give gifts to His enemies but you are wrong.  does not God send rain on the just and unjust alike?  now God does favor/bless some more than others.  but it is not because of any reason except that these people are meeting the conditions of promises in the bible that are necessary to receive these promises.  if everyone went after these promises then they too would be more abundantly blessed/favored.  but it is up to each individual to decide how much they wish to be blessed from God.  everyone wants the blessing but few are willing to do what is necessary to receive them.

 

God bless


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#13
bbyrd009

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Who was this guy?  Jesus was talking about "this wicked generation," (Mt 12:45) the house of Israel.   Lk 11:14-26 makes it even clearer.  Jesus had been casting out devils.  Likewise, while Jesus lived, He drove many of hte "unclean spirits" out of Israel taking their armor, their strength, with Him.  But when He died, the unclean spirit brought 7 more spirits back into the Pharisees and they took off against Jesus with 7 times more vengeance than they had gone after Him.  Notice in Lk 11:23 .. "those that gather not with me scatter."  Well, that is what happened to the disciples once Jesus was dead, right?

 

There were also converts among the Pharisees who gathered with Jesus after His death.

 

Anyway, this doesn't have to do with Christians.  When the Spirit "sweeps and garnishes" the house, He takes up permanent residence therein.

 

skypair

ah, so the passage is historical, and has no application to any believer today, gotcha. Thanks.


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#14
bbyrd009

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Anyway, this doesn't have to do with Christians.  When the Spirit "sweeps and garnishes" the house, He takes up permanent residence therein.

 

skypair

also, then someone who has "accepted Christ" must no longer sin, in this case. The end of this is "Hitler is saved," of course, because Hitler "accepted Christ," too.


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#15
mjrhealth

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also, then someone who has "accepted Christ" must no longer sin

 

And so I made a post just for teh righteous who no longer sin right here.

 

http://www.christian...who-do-not-sin/

 

So far no one has put there name there, for if they did they would be lying and sinners.

 

Cant escape that one. Sin is all about the flesh its not teh flesh we are trying to save.


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The words that I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life. You search the scriptures, reading them thinking they bring you life, and they testify of Me yet you wont come to me so that you can have eternal life.


#16
bbyrd009

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And so I made a post just for teh righteous who no longer sin right here.

 

So far no one has put there name there, for if they did they would be lying and sinners.

 

Cant escape that one. Sin is all about the flesh its not teh flesh we are trying to save.

nice. But we are cautioned not to try and save our own souls, either...which sure seems counter-intuitive, huh? What do you make of that?


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#17
mjrhealth

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But we are cautioned not to try and save our own souls, either

Be bvery presumptious to think one could, or is it spitting in teh Face of Jesus, thinking His work is not required??


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The words that I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life. You search the scriptures, reading them thinking they bring you life, and they testify of Me yet you wont come to me so that you can have eternal life.


#18
bbyrd009

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Be bvery presumptious to think one could, or is it spitting in teh Face of Jesus, thinking His work is not required??

yet we both rail against the Nehushtan-worshippers, those who have made the Bible into God, and claim to know Christ, and btw have perfectly valid logic lines to follow in Scripture, that you and i--or at least i--believed at one time. And i'm sure even you would admit to having known good hearts in that model (assuming you were ever in it--maybe not?). So i guess it depends upon how one interprets the passage (keeping "Seek your own salvation" in mind, also). Most of the 4 Witnesses to the passage (whoever seeks to save his soul (life) will lose it) put it in the context of someone who prefers worldly comfort over self sacrifice, and avoids any "hating their life" or "pick up their cross" stuff in life; and the 4 have 3 different conclusions, but the Luke 17 one, 37Where, Lord?" they asked Him. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered" is a telling conclusion imo; that i don't recall ever hearing a sermon on. "Corpse" (soma) is the same word used for "body," and while this conclusion may again be interpreted different ways, most of the interpretations--with Jesus' Body or the Body of Christ (us) being the most obvious allusions--are not very comfortable to contemplate.

 

 

So, i don't think it is too far afield to suggest that there is a way to claim Christ and yet be spitting in His face, so to speak; and its corollary, there is a way to deny Christ and yet be considered "accepted," as much other Scripture informs us. Sticking with the first case, imo we have sheep (who are "led") and have no desire to be hypocrites, and seek to change their minds, and we have wolves in sheep's clothing, who will not be led, and seek to sit on a fence, and also to recruit as many others as possible into the scheme, under the cover of "following Christ." And of course there are divisions even within that, one can do the last in ignorance, or in hypocrisy, pick a Saul there. One either relents when confronted with their hypocrisies, or they do not. And of course we can be blind to this in ourselves, even as they are so obvious to everyone else.

 

And, since it is of course all about me, which one am i? I am both of them, of course; as tempting as it is to claim otherwise, or to claim that Christ somehow instantly resolved or covered all of my hypocrisies at profession, rendering my "claiming otherwise" moot, or whatever. OSAS, iow. Of course the deficiency there might be that you have chosen the wrong concept of "once saved," as Scripture both refutes and leads one to.

 

No one--for the most part--consciously spits in Christ's Face, of course. Not even Hitler, right? But other people, people who disagree with us, no problem! Lol.


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#19
H. Richard

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So can I just put a plug in here for the real gospel Acts 2:36-40? There are so many "Christian" gospels out there that it is hard for anyone to really know whether they have obeyed God unto salvation.

In Acts 2:36-37a, Peter, the Comforter/Holy Spirit, convicts them "of sin, righteousness, and judgment" (Jn 16:8-10) and they were "prickked in their hearts" because they BELIEVED the gospel.

In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

Acts 2:39 tells us why Acts 2:38 is part of the gospel message because "these promises are to you, and your children, and to those who are afar off"

Then Acts 2:40 commands us to "save yourselves from this untoward generation," which was Judaism in that day, by being baptized into the body of Christ, the church.

 

skypair

**

So we are Jews?

 

Peter is talking to the Jews who realized that Jesus was their Messiah and King.  The promises were made to the Jews.  There were Jews who were living in other nations.  To assume Peter was talking about the Gentiles is illogical since Peter didn't know the Gentiles would be included until God gave him a vision.

 

Peter did not start the church built on God's grace.  Paul did. 


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#20
skypair

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Peter is talking to the Jews who realized that Jesus was their Messiah and King.  The promises were made to the Jews.  There were Jews who were living in other nations.  To assume Peter was talking about the Gentiles is illogical since Peter didn't know the Gentiles would be included until God gave him a vision.

 

Peter did not start the church built on God's grace.  Paul did. 

Wow!  Really??

 

The promises are to all who will be saved into the new covenant of grace.  There are NO promises to those who are lost .. or do you know something I don't know?

 

And is it your claim that those at Pentecost were not "church?"  Peter was the apostle to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles .. but they both preached the same gospel, HR.

 

skypair


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#21
H. Richard

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Wow!  Really??

 

The promises are to all who will be saved into the new covenant of grace.  There are NO promises to those who are lost .. or do you know something I don't know?

 

And is it your claim that those at Pentecost were not "church?"  Peter was the apostle to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles .. but they both preached the same gospel, HR.

 

skypair

Where is your proof?  Show me where Jesus and the 12 said we are not under the law. As far as Acts 21:20 we see that that James and the others are teaching the law.  Under grace God (Jesus) has already atoned (paid) for the sins of all of the world.  The truth is that since all sin has been atoned for, sin does not condemn anyone.  Unbelief that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world condemns in this age of grace.

 

Acts 21:20-21
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 
NKJV
 
Was Paul teaching the Jews that they were no longer under the Law?  Absolutely!  
 
So I ask again show me where Jesus anhd the 11(12) said we are no longer under the law of Moses..

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#22
skypair

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Where is your proof?  Show me where Jesus and the 12 said we are not under the law. As far as Acts 21:20 we see that that James and the others are teaching the law.  Under grace God (Jesus) has already atoned (paid) for the sins of all of the world.  The truth is that since all sin has been atoned for, sin does not condemn anyone.  Unbelief that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world condemns in this age of grace.

 

Acts 21:20-21
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 
NKJV
 
Was Paul teaching the Jews that they were no longer under the Law?  Absolutely!  
 
So I ask again show me where Jesus anhd the 11(12) said we are no longer under the law of Moses..

 

Well, to begin with, Paul was one of the 12.  He took Judas "bishopric."  Second, you are overlooking Acts 15, the church council wherein Peter and James decided that the Gentiles didn't need to practice the traditions of the law anymore.  That didn't, however, change the gospel nor mean that there were 2 different gospels nor mean that the Jewish converts remained under the law.  They were free to carry out the old traditions but not be legalistic about their faith (see Galation 1:7 thereby perverting the gospel of Christ).

 

skypair


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#23
H. Richard

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Well, to begin with, Paul was one of the 12.  He took Judas "bishopric."  Second, you are overlooking Acts 15, the church council wherein Peter and James decided that the Gentiles didn't need to practice the traditions of the law anymore.  That didn't, however, change the gospel nor mean that there were 2 different gospels nor mean that the Jewish converts remained under the law.  They were free to carry out the old traditions but not be legalistic about their faith (see Galation 1:7 thereby perverting the gospel of Christ).

 

skypair

**

NO! Paul was not one of the 12.  Peter and the rest chose another to fill Judas' place.

 

In Acts 15, James said that the Gentiles did not have to keep the Law of Moses but he did NOT say the Jews didn't have to.  Yours is just an assumption that James said that the Jews did not have to keep the law.

 

The scriptures tell us that Paul's gospel of grace was not a gospel based on the Law of Moses.  It was based on God's grace, not the law of Moses.  Law and grace can not be mixed.  All you are doing is not accepting the fact that God had a HIDDEN gospel that He gave to Paul. You read it in the scriptures but just can't see the word "HIDDEN". You refuse to accept that God changed the Gospel because the religious laws did not bare fruit because man can not keep the Law of Moses.  The HIDDEN gospel is that Jesus shed blood has atoned (paid) for all the sins of mankind, past, present and future.  But it only applies to the person who places their faith in it.  Every one has a pardon but only if they accept it through faith, (belief)  Salvation is the work of God for all of mankind.

 

1 Cor 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 
NKJV
 
Eph 3:8-9
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;  
NKJV
 
Col 1:26-27
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 
27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 
NKJV
 
HIDDEN!

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