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Galatians 2:20

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#1
NetChaplain

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Upon being born again, the new life of the God-man has come in (Col 3:4—NC), and it has not come in to supplement ours, but to supplant ours. It has not been given to make up for any deficiency in ours, but to displace it. When we say that Christ’s life is to displace ours, what do we mean? We do not mean that this life of the glorified One is to displace our personality. When I speak of our fallen life, I do not mean the human personality as such. I mean the poison which permeates our personality, the poison of sin (old man or Adamic sinful nature—NC) which has degraded, defiled and distorted our humanity.

 

This new life of Christ comes in to take place of the sinful life which is operating in our personality, and employing our faculties. The vessel is the same, but the contents are different; the same vessel, the same person, the same faculties, but the contents are different—the very human-divine life of the Lord Jesus is filling, interpenetrating, permeating.

 

If we do not maintain this scriptural distinction, we are going to come into another bondage, and many a child of God has. They see that it is plainly stated that it must be Christ. “Not I, but Christ,” and so they may quote the second chapter of Galatians, verse twenty, “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and the life that I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.”

 

In this verse Paul refers to himself seven times, and he does not always mean the same thing. Sometimes he is speaking of himself considered as a created personality, and sometimes as a sinful personality. Therefore he says, “I have been crucified together with Christ.”

 

Now, what does he mean by that? Does he mean that he, considered as a mere personality, has been crucified with Christ? No, Jesus Christ did not die for us on Calvary, considered purely as personalities, but as sinners—as sinful personalities. I was crucified together with Christ in my capacity as a sinful being. That is what Paul means. “I” considered as a sinful being, have been crucified, and it is no longer I, considered as a sinful being that lives.

 

When Jesus Christ went down into the grave, He went down as though He were myself considered as a sinful personality. Hence I, in the Divine mind, went down into the grave with Him; and I there, having been crucified, have been brought to an end in the grave, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ lives. Where does He live? “Christ lives in me.” Now Paul is using “I” in a different sense. “In me,” considered as a created personality, “Christ lives in me, not instead of me. It is not that Christ comes in and lives instead of me. He comes in and lives instead of me as a sinful personality, but not instead of me as a personality.

 

“I (considered as a sinful personality) have been crucified together with Christ; and it is no longer I (viewed as a sinful personality) lives, but Christ lives in me (as a personality) and the life which I (as a continuing personality) live in the flesh I (as a personality) live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, Who loved me (being what I was, a sinful personality) and gave Himself up for me (a sinner).”

 

We have to distinguish when the Scripture speaks of the sinful personality (of our nature—NC) and when it speaks of the personality as such (of our character or person-hood—NC). It is the personality, it is the man with all of his faculties, created of God, which is now redeemed by the Blood of Christ. God is not seeking to abolish us as human beings and have Christ replace us. He is seeking to restore us as human personalities so that we may be the vehicle through which Christ will express Himself. Therefore you find that whenever God gets hold of an individual, instead of abolishing the personality, He makes it what He intended it to be. Redemption is the recovery of individuals, not their destruction.

 

The new life then, has come in not to supplement our own life, but to supplant it, so that it may be Christ’s life that fills the man instead of the fallen Adam life. The new life comes in, not to be allied with the old, but to be arrayed against it; not to help it, but to hinder it; not to improve it, but to ultimately do away with it.

 

Did the Lord Jesus come to earth in order to affiliate Himself with fallen humanity in gaining a mutual objective? That is what many are teaching—as though this Second Man came in order to link up with the old humanity and work with it to a common end. Nothing of the sort. There is no hint in the record of the life of our Lord Jesus that He was engaged in anything like that. He was found to be diametrically opposed to the old man. He was not here to be a mixer, but a separator. He was not here for peace with the sinful humanity, He was here constantly at variance with it. He was not here to elevate the nature which was opposed to God, but to Cross it out!

 

How did He do it? The answer is that He did it on the Cross of Calvary. In what sense? In this way: on the Cross He was looked upon by God as though He were fallen humanity, and all that God had against us was poured out on Him. Where did that bring Him? It brought Him into death. Jesus Christ, by His Cross, carried fallen individuals into the grave. In a representative way, then, He brought the old man, which heretofore had been the only one on the field, into death, and now individuals stand forth in resurrection glory. When the full meaning of that is wrought out, there is not going to be one sinful individual on the earth. Christ will be all and in all. That is what is involved.

 

Just as the Lord Jesus came into this world where this old humanity was and came into it not to ally Himself with it but to destroy it by the Cross, even so He now by the Holy Spirit, in regeneration comes into us where there is this old fallen life not to ally Himself with it, but to destroy it and that by the same means—the Cross. The new life that is in us, then, is in us not to enter into an agreement with the old life, but to draw the sword of Calvary against it, so that when it is carried to its conclusion, there will not be one bit of it left, but Christ will be all in all in the redeemed individual.

 

There is a great tendency in our hearts to tone the thing down. You say, this is very severe; this is very radical; this is going too far. Because we tone the thing down, we save our old life at some point or other. We do not put it to death by the edge of the sword of the Cross. Our eye pities it. Our hands save it. We enter into an alliance with the crucified old man. We spare him. We will make him serve us and help God’s program along. It may seem for a time as though it was a wise move, but in the end it will be found to be a snare.

 

Believer, anything that is just from yourself, anything of the fallen life—even the best of it—any of it that lives, permitted to abide and dwell and have a habitation, in the end is going to prove a snare—a thorn in your eye, blotting our your spiritual vision. As sure as truth is truth, it will land you in some spiritual bondage and you will harm your testimony. Calvary never changes. The meaning of Calvary is eternal, and the Cross means judgment upon the flesh (not the physical body but the sinful nature—NC)—into the grave with that which is of ourselves.

 

So, God calls for a clear-cut position on our part, a full rejection of our old life through the Cross. On the Cross God dealt with our Lord Jesus as though He were us, and when He went into the grave, we went into the grave, and all the sinful content of our being has been taken down into death. We must recognize that it is incumbent upon us to say Amen to that, to accept the significance of it and, in the light of that fact, to turn away utterly from that which is of the old man—renouncing the best as well as the worst.

 

Whenever you find a child of God who has a reservation somewhere, you will find that child of God by that very reservation forging the chains of his captivity. If there is any reservation on our heart, this is the very means by which we are sooner or later bound hand and foot.

 

Believer, when we come to recognize these realities and see that it is not a combination of our old life and Christ’s new life, we come to the key of spiritual emancipation. This is not eradication, not a bit of it, but it is a definite rejection of the old man that is within, on the ground of its representative destruction on Calvary. Our Father calls upon us to amend the spiritual significance of the Cross.

 

That is where the Church of God is held up. The Cross is not only the place to come for deliverance from Divine judgement, but the Cross also means the rejection of sinful humanity. It is not for us merely to accept the benefits of the Cross by way of emancipation from judgment, but it is for us to have the mark of the Cross upon us—to be branded by the Cross inwardly. It is for Him to work it out.

 

This is the way of spiritual emancipation. There is no other way. Is the power of the holy life in Christ within us drawing the sword of Calvary against our old life to the uttermost? It is not you in your power trying to wield the mighty Cross of Christ. It is Christ in you, an indwelling presence rejecting the flesh on the ground of the Cross. Are you repudiating your old life on the basis of its judicial destruction? This is the only way of spiritual liberty, and it is the sure way.

 

- Norman Douty

 

 

MJS devotional for Jan. 31: http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

 

 

 

 


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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#2
H. Richard

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Upon being born again, the new life of the God-man has come in (Col 3:4—NC), and it has not come in to supplement ours, but to supplant ours. It has not been given to make up for any deficiency in ours, but to displace it. When we say that Christ’s life is to displace ours, what do we mean? We do not mean that this life of the glorified One is to displace our personality. When I speak of our fallen life, I do not mean the human personality as such. I mean the poison which permeates our personality, the poison of sin (old man or Adamic sinful nature—NC) which has degraded, defiled and distorted our humanity.

 

This new life of Christ comes in to take place of the sinful life which is operating in our personality, and employing our faculties. The vessel is the same, but the contents are different; the same vessel, the same person, the same faculties, but the contents are different—the very human-divine life of the Lord Jesus is filling, interpenetrating, permeating.

 

If we do not maintain this scriptural distinction, we are going to come into another bondage, and many a child of God has. They see that it is plainly stated that it must be Christ. “Not I, but Christ,” and so they may quote the second chapter of Galatians, verse twenty, “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and the life that I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.”

 

In this verse Paul refers to himself seven times, and he does not always mean the same thing. Sometimes he is speaking of himself considered as a created personality, and sometimes as a sinful personality. Therefore he says, “I have been crucified together with Christ.”

 

Now, what does he mean by that? Does he mean that he, considered as a mere personality, has been crucified with Christ? No, Jesus Christ did not die for us on Calvary, considered purely as personalities, but as sinners—as sinful personalities. I was crucified together with Christ in my capacity as a sinful being. That is what Paul means. “I” considered as a sinful being, have been crucified, and it is no longer I, considered as a sinful being that lives.

 

When Jesus Christ went down into the grave, He went down as though He were myself considered as a sinful personality. Hence I, in the Divine mind, went down into the grave with Him; and I there, having been crucified, have been brought to an end in the grave, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ lives. Where does He live? “Christ lives in me.” Now Paul is using “I” in a different sense. “In me,” considered as a created personality, “Christ lives in me, not instead of me. It is not that Christ comes in and lives instead of me. He comes in and lives instead of me as a sinful personality, but not instead of me as a personality.

 

“I (considered as a sinful personality) have been crucified together with Christ; and it is no longer I (viewed as a sinful personality) lives, but Christ lives in me (as a personality) and the life which I (as a continuing personality) live in the flesh I (as a personality) live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, Who loved me (being what I was, a sinful personality) and gave Himself up for me (a sinner).”

 

We have to distinguish when the Scripture speaks of the sinful personality (of our nature—NC) and when it speaks of the personality as such (of our character or person-hood—NC). It is the personality, it is the man with all of his faculties, created of God, which is now redeemed by the Blood of Christ. God is not seeking to abolish us as human beings and have Christ replace us. He is seeking to restore us as human personalities so that we may be the vehicle through which Christ will express Himself. Therefore you find that whenever God gets hold of an individual, instead of abolishing the personality, He makes it what He intended it to be. Redemption is the recovery of individuals, not their destruction.

 

The new life then, has come in not to supplement our own life, but to supplant it, so that it may be Christ’s life that fills the man instead of the fallen Adam life. The new life comes in, not to be allied with the old, but to be arrayed against it; not to help it, but to hinder it; not to improve it, but to ultimately do away with it.

 

Did the Lord Jesus come to earth in order to affiliate Himself with fallen humanity in gaining a mutual objective? That is what many are teaching—as though this Second Man came in order to link up with the old humanity and work with it to a common end. Nothing of the sort. There is no hint in the record of the life of our Lord Jesus that He was engaged in anything like that. He was found to be diametrically opposed to the old man. He was not here to be a mixer, but a separator. He was not here for peace with the sinful humanity, He was here constantly at variance with it. He was not here to elevate the nature which was opposed to God, but to Cross it out!

 

How did He do it? The answer is that He did it on the Cross of Calvary. In what sense? In this way: on the Cross He was looked upon by God as though He were fallen humanity, and all that God had against us was poured out on Him. Where did that bring Him? It brought Him into death. Jesus Christ, by His Cross, carried fallen individuals into the grave. In a representative way, then, He brought the old man, which heretofore had been the only one on the field, into death, and now individuals stand forth in resurrection glory. When the full meaning of that is wrought out, there is not going to be one sinful individual on the earth. Christ will be all and in all. That is what is involved.

 

Just as the Lord Jesus came into this world where this old humanity was and came into it not to ally Himself with it but to destroy it by the Cross, even so He now by the Holy Spirit, in regeneration comes into us where there is this old fallen life not to ally Himself with it, but to destroy it and that by the same means—the Cross. The new life that is in us, then, is in us not to enter into an agreement with the old life, but to draw the sword of Calvary against it, so that when it is carried to its conclusion, there will not be one bit of it left, but Christ will be all in all in the redeemed individual.

 

There is a great tendency in our hearts to tone the thing down. You say, this is very severe; this is very radical; this is going too far. Because we tone the thing down, we save our old life at some point or other. We do not put it to death by the edge of the sword of the Cross. Our eye pities it. Our hands save it. We enter into an alliance with the crucified old man. We spare him. We will make him serve us and help God’s program along. It may seem for a time as though it was a wise move, but in the end it will be found to be a snare.

 

Believer, anything that is just from yourself, anything of the fallen life—even the best of it—any of it that lives, permitted to abide and dwell and have a habitation, in the end is going to prove a snare—a thorn in your eye, blotting our your spiritual vision. As sure as truth is truth, it will land you in some spiritual bondage and you will harm your testimony. Calvary never changes. The meaning of Calvary is eternal, and the Cross means judgment upon the flesh (not the physical body but the sinful nature—NC)—into the grave with that which is of ourselves.

 

So, God calls for a clear-cut position on our part, a full rejection of our old life through the Cross. On the Cross God dealt with our Lord Jesus as though He were us, and when He went into the grave, we went into the grave, and all the sinful content of our being has been taken down into death. We must recognize that it is incumbent upon us to say Amen to that, to accept the significance of it and, in the light of that fact, to turn away utterly from that which is of the old man—renouncing the best as well as the worst.

 

Whenever you find a child of God who has a reservation somewhere, you will find that child of God by that very reservation forging the chains of his captivity. If there is any reservation on our heart, this is the very means by which we are sooner or later bound hand and foot.

 

Believer, when we come to recognize these realities and see that it is not a combination of our old life and Christ’s new life, we come to the key of spiritual emancipation. This is not eradication, not a bit of it, but it is a definite rejection of the old man that is within, on the ground of its representative destruction on Calvary. Our Father calls upon us to amend the spiritual significance of the Cross.

 

That is where the Church of God is held up. The Cross is not only the place to come for deliverance from Divine judgement, but the Cross also means the rejection of sinful humanity. It is not for us merely to accept the benefits of the Cross by way of emancipation from judgment, but it is for us to have the mark of the Cross upon us—to be branded by the Cross inwardly. It is for Him to work it out.

 

This is the way of spiritual emancipation. There is no other way. Is the power of the holy life in Christ within us drawing the sword of Calvary against our old life to the uttermost? It is not you in your power trying to wield the mighty Cross of Christ. It is Christ in you, an indwelling presence rejecting the flesh on the ground of the Cross. Are you repudiating your old life on the basis of its judicial destruction? This is the only way of spiritual liberty, and it is the sure way.

 

- Norman Douty

 

 

MJS devotional for Jan. 31: http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

***

This post is worth a reply!  A very good post.  Thank you.


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#3
NetChaplain

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***

This post is worth a reply!  A very good post.  Thank you.

Hi HR, and thank you for your reply and compliment! God bless and God Be Blessed!!


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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#4
shnarkle

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"The new life then, has come in not to supplement our own life, but to supplant it, so that it may be Christ’s life that fills the man instead of the fallen Adam life. The new life comes in, not to be allied with the old, but to be arrayed against it; not to help it, but to hinder it; not to improve it, but to ultimately do away with it."

This made sense to me, but it didn't seem to agree with what came before it; not sure what's going on here.
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#5
NetChaplain

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"The new life then, has come in not to supplement our own life, but to supplant it, so that it may be Christ’s life that fills the man instead of the fallen Adam life. The new life comes in, not to be allied with the old, but to be arrayed against it; not to help it, but to hinder it; not to improve it, but to ultimately do away with it."

This made sense to me, but it didn't seem to agree with what came before it; not sure what's going on here.

Hi Shnarkle - Thanks for your reply, and part of this article is probably one of the most difficult to understand because it seems to contradict itself with certain explanations.

 

I think I know what part your referring to as "what cam before it" but I need to know which part for certain. Thanks!

 

God bless! 


  • 0

The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#6
shnarkle

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Hi Shnarkle - Thanks for your reply, and part of this article is probably one of the most difficult to understand because it seems to contradict itself with certain explanations.
 
I think I know what part your referring to as "what cam before it" but I need to know which part for certain. Thanks!
 
God bless!


It is not that Christ comes in and lives instead of me. He comes in and lives instead of me as a sinful personality, but not instead of me as a personality.


Our own language betrays us, and points to the truth. The origin of the word gives it away.


Middle English, from Anglo-French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosōpa, plural of prosōpon face, mask

Christ points out that as long as we do it to the least of his brothers, we do it to him. It is the personality itself that is sinful; a fraud. We are all created in the image of God. Christ came to point out the reality. He said, "If you have seen the Father, you have seen the Son". He said, "You are the light of the world". He said, "Deny yourself", he then abrogated the golden rule from "Love others as yourself", to "love others as I have loved you".

When Christ is in each of us just as the Father is in him, then it is that same loving relationship. When the Son empties himself of his divinity to share in our humanity, we inevitably follow suit by emptying ourselves of our humanity to share in his divinity. This is not something that we do, for our personalities are nothing but figments of our own imagination. Our personalities are simply recognized for what they are; vanity; vain imaginings. They serve only to separate us from each other.


When this deception is recognized, one see's Christ in everyone. They no longer live for themselves, but for Christ. There can be no mediator for reality other than reality itself, and Christ is that mediator.
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#7
mjrhealth

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Christ points out that as long as we do it to the least of his brothers, we do it to him. It is the personality itself that is sinful; a fraud. We are all created in the image of God. Christ came to point out the reality. He said, "If you have seen the Father, you have seen the Son". He said, "You are the light of the world". He said, "Deny yourself", he then abrogated the golden rule from "Love others as yourself", to "love others as I have loved you".

When Christ is in each of us just as the Father is in him, then it is that same loving relationship. When the Son empties himself of his divinity to share in our humanity, we inevitably follow suit by emptying ourselves of our humanity to share in his divinity. This is not something that we do, for our personalities are nothing but figments of our own imagination. Our personalities are simply recognized for what they are; vanity; vain imaginings. They serve only to separate us from each other.

Nicely put


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The words that I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life. You search the scriptures, reading them thinking they bring you life, and they testify of Me yet you wont come to me so that you can have eternal life.


#8
NetChaplain

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Our own language betrays us, and points to the truth. The origin of the word gives it away.


Middle English, from Anglo-French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosōpa, plural of prosōpon face, mask

Christ points out that as long as we do it to the least of his brothers, we do it to him. It is the personality itself that is sinful; a fraud. We are all created in the image of God. Christ came to point out the reality. He said, "If you have seen the Father, you have seen the Son". He said, "You are the light of the world". He said, "Deny yourself", he then abrogated the golden rule from "Love others as yourself", to "love others as I have loved you".

When Christ is in each of us just as the Father is in him, then it is that same loving relationship. When the Son empties himself of his divinity to share in our humanity, we inevitably follow suit by emptying ourselves of our humanity to share in his divinity. This is not something that we do, for our personalities are nothing but figments of our own imagination. Our personalities are simply recognized for what they are; vanity; vain imaginings. They serve only to separate us from each other.


When this deception is recognized, one see's Christ in everyone. They no longer live for themselves, but for Christ. There can be no mediator for reality other than reality itself, and Christ is that mediator.

I'm trying but still don't know what to reply here!


  • 0

The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#9
shnarkle

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I'm trying but still don't know what to reply here!


My first post here is in complete agreement with the section quoted. The previous sections contradict that position. When Christ says to deny oneself, he isn't suggesting that one make sacrifices, or give up the things one may desire. He is referring to the self itself; the source of all this nonsense in the first place. When one see's, not from the standpoint of a separate individual, but from reality itself, these distinctions disappear. There is no "other". There is only Christ. We do not look at reality as we are, but as reality is. Here again, the word "individual" comes from the word "indivisible"; when we see ourselves as separate individuals we betray reality. We create our own personas, and these personas can do great things, but this doesn't negate the fact that they are simply the vain imaginings of our own egos. Christ made no distinctions between a sinful self and a true or genuine self. The self is false. Christ did not crucify his false self; Christ did not play false with anyone. He denied himself; he practiced what he preached unlike those preachers who will proclaim that they aren't the type of people they're preaching to, Jesus was without sin, and also denied himself as that is how it's done no matter where anyone is on their journey. When Jesus denies the genuine article, you can safely assume that you need to do the same. We need to become the proverbial doughnut hole.

Just to be clear here, I'm not suggesting that our denying of ourselves is in anyway an attempt at justifying ourselves; it's the exact opposite. We are called to follow Christ's example because he has saved, and justified us already. We can throw off the self with complete abandon knowing that the reality of Christ awaits those who do.

Edited by shnarkle, 07 February 2017 - 02:42 PM.

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#10
NetChaplain

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Christ made no distinctions between a sinful self and a true or genuine self. The self is false.

 

HI Shnarkle - Thanks for the quite informative reply, of which most I agree. The point I'm making is that self in his old nature is false and wicked, which is one who is "in the flesh" or "after the flesh," i.e. still a "sinner."

 

The self not in his old nature but new nature is true and holy, which is one who is "not after the flesh" or "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" (Rom 8:9), e.g. "new creature," not a sinner. This is why there is no Scripture relating believers as sinners (if that's what you are discussing).

 

God bless!


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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#11
shnarkle

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HI Shnarkle - Thanks for the quite informative reply, of which most I agree. The point I'm making is that self in his old nature is false and wicked, which is one who is "in the flesh" or "after the flesh," i.e. still a "sinner."
 
The self not in his old nature but new nature is true and holy, which is one who is "not after the flesh" or "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" (Rom 8:9), e.g. "new creature," not a sinner. This is why there is no Scripture relating believers as sinners (if that's what you are discussing).
 
God bless!


Pretty close, but there is no self. The new nature is Christ who said, "deny yourself". This could be looked at as more of an observation than an instruction. There are no mediators between us and God. When Christ says that he is the Way he is pointing out this reality. We can look at a stick of wood and see that there are two points of termination for this stick, but the fact remains that there is just this one single stick. The termination points are not separate from the stick. We tend to identify with the ends of the stick; we think we're separate from the stick. Christ comes along and gives us a new heart, but what he's really doing is revealing to us that we're not separate from him or each other. There is no "other", there is only Christ. There is only the stick of wood.

This is an abhorrent thought to the ego. The self cannot entertain this self negating proposition. We have to sneak up on it, but this doesn't work either so it has to be by revelation from God. We can't think our way out of it, the reality must be revealed, and the paradox is that it cannot be revealed to the self. The self is a self imposed mediator. Reality can only be perceived through reality. Reality is the mediator, and there is nothing more real than Christ.

Nothing I say negates anything in scripture. I'm simply pointing out that when Christ says to deny the self, he means exactly that, and Paul's words need to be taken with that in mind. The self cannot walk after the Spirit any more than automobiles can be blown across the ocean. The reality is that we don't trade in a car for a boat; we get rid of the car altogether and become one with the wind. Our identity is in Christ. This is not hyperbole.

Paul was no slouch when it came to words. Nowhere does he state that we are to identify with Christ. He is precise, and by stating our identity is in Christ, he is stating it as a fact. Identification is not identity.
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#12
NetChaplain

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Pretty close, but there is no self. The new nature is Christ who said, "deny yourself". 

Thanks for the reply, but judging from it there appears to be a difference between our understanding concerning Galatians 2:20 with the issue of self. It's my understanding that self with a sinful nature comes into the world, and "through faith" in Christ the sinful nature of self is crucified, which is the meaning of self being crucified--the "old man" (Rom 6:6), which is that part of self that is at enmity with God. It's the nature of the being that determines it quality, thus a new nature, a new creature!

 

Upon this processes rebirth results and a new nature is permanently implanted. It is via this new nature that Christ's life is our life (Col 3:4; the new nature is newly "created after the image of Christ - Col 3:10), which is how we become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Pet 1:4). The life of Christ becomes coexistent with new life or new nature, same that the old nature is coexistent with the new nature, but the Spirit uses the new nature (Eph 3:16) to cause us to desire and live after the new nature, rather than desiring to live after the old nature (Gal 5:17).

 

Concerning "righteousness," it’s my understanding that it’s not the doing of righteousness that determines the righteousness of Christ in the believer, because this cannot be in continuous unbroken practice, being yet in possession of the old man. But it is the unbroken and continuous “desire” for the righteousness of God that determines the righteousness of Christ in the believer.

 

The believer has no self-righteousness because there is only one strain of righteousness in existence—Christ’s, thus it can only be “imputed” not imparted. As it has been well said, “the divine attributes of the Creator are not communicable (transferred) to the creature”; and this “desire” comes only from God “working in you” (Phil 2:13).

 

Blessings!


Edited by NetChaplain, 08 February 2017 - 02:45 PM.

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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#13
shnarkle

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Thanks for the reply, but judging from it there appears to be a difference between our understanding concerning Galatians 2:20 with the issue of self. It's my understanding that self with a sinful nature comes into the world, and "through faith" in Christ the sinful nature of self is crucified, which is the meaning of self being crucified--the "old man" (Rom 6:6), which is that part of self that is at enmity with God.


I don't see Paul or anyone else making a distinction here. In other words, he doesn't say something like "that part of the carnal mind", or "that part of the old man" etc.
 

It's the nature of the being that determines it quality, thus a new nature, a new creature!


And a new creature is a "son" of God. Any of those creations that are created directly by God, e.g. Adam, all the angelic host of heaven, and the "new creature" are "sons of God". There is no part of the "old man" that is now a part of the new creature in Christ.
 

Upon this processes rebirth results and a new nature is permanently implanted. It is via this new nature that Christ's life is our life (Col 3:4; the new nature is newly "created after the image of Christ - Col 3:10), which is how we become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Pet 1:4). The life of Christ becomes coexistent with new life or new nature, same that the old nature is coexistent with the new nature, but the Spirit uses the new nature (Eph 3:16) to cause us to desire and live after the new nature, rather than desiring to live after the old nature (Gal 5:17).


Yes, the church fathers pointed this out as well by referring to this "becoming" as "eternally begotten". Christ also points out that he makes all things new again, i.e. eternally. The "old nature" isn't real; it's our own imagination. It's the temptation of Satan in the garden telling Adam that he can be like God, when Adam is walking with God already. Adam is walking beside God. Adam is the image of God. Jesus says the same thing. He says, "when you have seen the Son you have seen the Father".
 

Concerning "righteousness," it’s my understanding that it’s not the doing of righteousness that determines the righteousness of Christ in the believer, because this cannot be in continuous unbroken practice, being yet in possession of the old man.


And that has to be the case when we see that we still sin, right? There is one other possibility that no one wants to consider; namely that one doesn't have the new nature at all; we just want to believe we have it, but our desire, will, or effort has no bearing whatsoever on when or if we receive this new nature. The doing of righteousness can only be by Chris's spirit indwelling in the believer. The fact is that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell with sin. When pagan sacrifices were brought into the Temple, God left the building.
 

But it is the unbroken and continuous “desire” for the righteousness of God that determines the righteousness of Christ in the believer.


I think you got that backwards. It is the unbroken continuous righteousness of Christ's faith dwelling in the believer that saves, justifies, sanctifies, etc. the believer.
 

The believer has no self-righteousness because there is only one strain of righteousness in existence—Christ’s, thus it can only be “imputed” not imparted. As it has been well said, “the divine attributes of the Creator are not communicable (transferred) to the creature”; and this “desire” comes only from God “working in you” (Phil 2:13).


Exactly! There is no one to communicate them to. There is only the power of God working through the creation. The Creation itself doesn't do any work. When we think or feel that we're doing the work, we're deceived.
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#14
NetChaplain

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I don't see Paul or anyone else making a distinction here. In other words, he doesn't say something like "that part of the carnal mind", or "that part of the old man" etc.
 

"So then with the mind (Paul in his desires of the new nature) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh (Paul in his desires of his sinful nature) the law of sin."


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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 


#15
shnarkle

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"So then with the mind (Paul in his desires of the new nature) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh (Paul in his desires of his sinful nature) the law of sin."[/size]

Yes, Paul is pointing out that these two are distinctly different and never shall meet, or become blended. The law of sin destroys, and all that sin is going to die. When it comes time to be weighed in the balance, all that sin is going to disappear forever, whatever is left is eternal.
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#16
NetChaplain

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Yes, Paul is pointing out that these two are distinctly different and never shall meet, or become blended. The law of sin destroys, and all that sin is going to die. When it comes time to be weighed in the balance, all that sin is going to disappear forever, whatever is left is eternal.

Amen and God bless!


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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'"  MJS 
 





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