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What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?

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#31
H. Richard

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Since the OP was "

 

"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"

 

One thing for sure it would not be a person in religions.  It was the religious that killed Jesus, stoned Stephens to death, and persecuted Paul for the gospel Jesus gave him for the world.


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#32
Wormwood

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RELIGION

  1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
     
     
    • a particular system of faith and worship.
       
    • a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
       

I think Christianity, like it or not, is a religion.  Now I understand it is not like other world religions that are based in human effort...and that even Christians can fall into the trap of legalism.  However, as far as definitions go, I think its pretty important for a person to believe in God and be a part of a particular system of faith and worship.  Christians are not non-religious.  Jesus and others were killed by those who had no faith.  Religious or not, both the Romans and the Jews had a part in the persecution and murder of Christians in the first century.  I just think it is important to clarify terms.  However, I agree that legalistic people whose religion is based on self effort is not a disciple of Jesus.


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#33
shnarkle

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That in itself is a dangerous statement that has got many doing what they should not. When Christ calls you know it, becuase it will cost you witout you doing anything.it has nothing to do with what is written in teh bible.


It has to do with Christ's own words, e.g. "You cannot be one of my disciples unless you forsake all...etc."
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#34
shnarkle

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lots of people live that way! Communes, enclaves, intentional communities, etc. Bruderhof. et al.


So true! I was getting a bit jaded when I wrote that. It happens when I meet so much resistance to the gospel message.
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#35
shnarkle

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On multiple occasions shnarkle has accused Wormwood of "trolling". Shnarkle:

Do you even know whay that term means? Google it... It means to deliberately post something offensive in order to get an angry response. If anything, thats you, not Wormwood!


If I told you that you were judging and condemning people. You wouldn't take that as trolling? How about if I were to do that in post after post after post?

He hasn't done that... But you have been nothing but caustic from your first post. It could actually be a descent topic, but the tone seems very bitter. Furthermore I suspect there is an agenda behind it. No I can't prove it... But I discern it.


This is what I find truly amazing. I post Christ's own words and take them at face value, and people get completely bent out of shape because they think, without any prompting from me whatsoever; that I'm insisting that they "take a vow of poverty". There is no post anywhere that I've presented this nonsense. People just automatically read nonsense into what I'm posting, and then proceed to go on rants making baseless accusations. When I point out that they're basically just making baseless accusations and that there really is no reason to do this other than that they're simply engaging in trolling. People still just want to ignore this plain fact.

I have seen many good responses to your questions with scriptural refernce. The bottom line is that its ok to have a job and have some money...


I agree, especially if we want to be Christ's disciples because we can't quit a job we don't have, and we can't give all that money to the poor if we don't have any money to give away.

We must be ready to distribute and be givers....


Jesus doesn't say that we must be ready. He says "sell...give..etc."



Just to be clear... I have some issues with Wormwood. But i look at this thread and shnakle... You clearly are falsely acccusing him of trolling.


I beg to differ. People are making false accusations, and if that's not trolling then you should have no problem with my accusations that he is trolling, especially when he's making accusation after accusation without even really addressing this topic. His replies are based on his own accusations and his own arguments against Jesus own words. For some reason he thinks I'm making this stuff up; I'm not. I'm quoting the text itself. I'm also pointing out that it makes sense.


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#36
shnarkle

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this is trolling?

this is trolling?


Not if I am condemning others. Where am I doing that?
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#37
shnarkle

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Well, when you suggest that anyone who hasn't taken a vow of poverty and determines to be unemployed is not a real disciple of Jesus, that's about as condemning as it gets.  Last I checked, non-disciples do not go to heaven...correct?


Where am I stating that one must take a vow of poverty? This is about the third time someone has made this asinine accusation.
 
 

Lol, yes, all my friends live in mansions.  You know me so well.  smh.


Regardless of what they live in. How closely does it resemble how Jesus' own disciples were living? 
 

 
 

Oh really?  What if my job is to share the Gospel with people?  I should quit that?


Where did I say to quite spreading the gospel?

Is the virtue here in being generous and doing Kingdom work or not drawing a paycheck?


The instructions from Jesus are to do kingdom work; to work for our heavenly father, and let Him provide for our every need.

Seems like your only focus is the latter.


No, this seems to be what you're focusing in on. I just asked a few questions on the subject to see what people thought about it. Looks like I hit a nerve; why does it bother you so much?
 
 
 
 

“Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.” (Ephesians 4:28, NIV)  
 
So...looks like this scripture says we "must work."  Ill go with the Scripture here rather than your extrapolations on the teachings of Jesus.


I never said we mustn't work. I simply pointed out that Jesus is pointing out that we need to work for only ONE employer. Jesus points out that we can't work for both God and money. That's not really something one needs to dispute. He plainly said that. You're the one who is extrapolating that "work" means to be gainfully employed making money. Paul clearly taught just the opposite. Why would he "repent" of working for money if that wasn't the case?

 
  

Im surprised you'd let "a few dollars" get in the way of allowing you to be a true disciple...according to your definition anyway.


When or where did I say I was a true disciple?


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#38
shnarkle

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... whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


So just in case anyone may have forgotten that these are Christ's words rather than some condemning suggestion on my part; I post them once again.

And what sort of response do I get from just one of the loving, and oh so selfless, giving, non-judgmental Christians in this group?
 

Yet we need to be very cautious about taking such narratives and making new laws about vows of poverty lest we falsely create a new Gospel that is based on our levels of sacrifice and giving rather than Christ's.


I think you are throwing around a lot of judgment towards me and you have no idea about my financial status, lifestyle, or efforts to show benevolence to others.

However, again, I think you need to be cautious about your blanket judgments against other believers.

folks like you want to condemn them for the good they are doing.


You should think about things before you start pointing your finger at others in judgment.


you are trying to turn the NT narratives into a new law.

You are terrible at twisting Scripture.  According to your logic, we must all forsake everything.

You are so eager to justify yourself and condemn others on the basis of how much money someone has in their wallet.

So who are you to condemn others because they do not live as you do!?  Be very careful.  You will be judged by the same standard you use.


when you suggest that anyone who hasn't taken a vow of poverty and determines to be unemployed is not a real disciple of Jesus, that's about as condemning as it gets.

Look, you aren't convicting me or driving me crazy with anything.  You know nothing about me, my finances or my life.  I write this in a very calm and collected manner.  I am really not that concerned with what you think about me or my faith.  You know nothing about me.  I am simply sharing my views about how you are completely misunderstanding the Bible and the words of Jesus.  Im not even going to try to respond to your 10 pages of condescending responses.


I do not see anything in the NT that suggests they cannot have a job or must take a vow of poverty to prove they have faith.

Yet, those with wealth need to be careful not to put their trust in it and to be generous with what they have.  That is God's command to the wealthy...not that they sell everything and become unemployed as is being argued here by shnarkle.


Is it just me, or does it look like some people are protesting just a bit too much?

I'd also like to point out that the definition of ad hominem deals with statements directed at the person rather than the content of their arguments. Accusing me of "making new laws", spreading a "new gospel", of "convicting", "judging", and "condemning" others is inflammatory; it is quite simply trolling in it's most blatant, unimaginative and basest form. For this to come from a moderator is ridiculous and makes this forum look like a mockery of Christianity.
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#39
Wormwood

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Where am I stating that one must take a vow of poverty? This is about the third time someone has made this asinine accusation.

 

 

 

"Sure, but it's also the way of the world. It has nothing to do with God's plan. It has nothing to do with Christ's explicit instructions [your reference here is to selling all our stuff] as to what it means to truly be a disciple."

 

'Jesus said to give up working for a living. Walk in faith brother.'

A person can have money and not serve it.

"Sure, they just can't be one of Christ's disciples."

 

I dont know what to make of this discussion, snarkle.  You can't be any more clear that you believe a disciple must sell all their stuff.  You have said as much multiple times and have explicitly said that Jesus said to give up working for a living.  So, when you tell everyone they have to sell all their possessions in order to be a disciple and that Jesus says they cannot have a job and be a disciple or have any money...then that pretty much is a vow of poverty.  I dont know about you, but when I have multiple random people making the same comment to me, at some point I start to think that maybe I am wrong and they are right....ya think?  I mean, what are the chances that three different people make the similar statement to you about the content of your posts?  Perhaps you need to work on your communication skills if this isn't what you are intending to say.

 

Regardless of what they live in. How closely does it resemble how Jesus' own disciples were living? 

 

 

Well considering we dont live in the first century Middle East, I dont think any of us live in conditions comparable to the disciples.  Perhaps we should give up running water, electricity, and pooping indoors as well?  By your rationale, the only real way to be a disciple is if we give up our jobs, put on cloaks and walk from town to town in sandals learning via 1st century schooling practices.  Of course, we need to make sure we take dirt roads...because paved roads would be to comfy and undisciple-like.  The kingdom of God does not consist of eating, drinking or home size.  You are majoring in minors here.  Greed is a sin.  Having a job or running water is not.

 

Where did I say to quite spreading the gospel?

 

 

You said I need to quit my job to be a disciple.  My response was, "What if my job involves spreading the Gospel with others?"  Should I quit my job to meet your understanding of Christ's standards to be a disciple if my job revolves around spreading the Gospel?

 

The instructions from Jesus are to do kingdom work; to work for our heavenly father, and let Him provide for our every need.

 

 

What if my job is the means by which God desires to provide for my needs?  I mean, after all, Paul did tell us to work with our hands and earn money so we could be generous to others.... Oh..and last I checked, the Proverbs are filled with lessons about working diligently with our hands every day...you know...sowing and reaping.  I dont think provision from God has to be miraculous or non-job related to be valid.  I give thanks to God for my job and I see my pay as provision from His hand.  

 

No, this seems to be what you're focusing in on. I just asked a few questions on the subject to see what people thought about it. Looks like I hit a nerve; why does it bother you so much?

 

 

For the same reason I am bothered when Mormon's show up to my house telling me they have more information about Jesus.

 

I never said we mustn't work.

 

 

Perhaps you just are not a very good communicator.


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#40
shnarkle

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To add insult to injury, I get to read what I usually find the rabidly anti Christian atheists, and agnostics spewing at me from time to time on a few of the different forums I occasionally post in. This is practically identical to the ridicule I get on how stupid Christianity is to them.

Take a gander at this:
 

Perhaps we should also add that all Christians must do greater miracles than Jesus did if they are a true believer.  You raised any dead folk lately?

Yes.  He also told them to go from Jerusalem to Judea to Samaria and to the ends of the earth proclaiming the resurrection.  Have you been to Judea yet?  He also told them to go into the countryside with no staff or money and just preach and allow the generosity of those they preach to be their provision.  Is that what you do for a living?  Certainly you don't have one of those....jobs...do you?  

According to your logic, we must all forsake everything.  So that means if you have a family, you have to abandon them if you want to follow Christ.  In fact, Jesus said to hate your family if you want to be his disciple.  Do you hate them?  I mean, Jesus also said you have to take up your cross.  Have you been crucified yet?  Are you on the next plane to the Middle East to let ISIS crucify you?


For this to come from a self professed Christian is beyond my ability to understand or comprehend. For it to come from a moderator is truly insulting.
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#41
shnarkle

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"Sure, but it's also the way of the world. It has nothing to do with God's plan. It has nothing to do with Christ's explicit instructions [your reference here is to selling all our stuff] as to what it means to truly be a disciple."[/size]
 
'Jesus said to give up working for a living. Walk in faith brother.'[/size]
"Sure, they just can't be one of Christ's disciples."[/size]
 
I dont know what to make of this discussion, snarkle.  You can't be any more clear that you believe a disciple must sell all their stuff.  You have said as much multiple times and have explicitly said that Jesus said to give up working for a living.  So, when you tell everyone they have to sell all their possessions in order to be a disciple and that Jesus says they cannot have a job and be a disciple or have any money...then that pretty much is a vow of poverty.  I dont know about you, but when I have multiple random people making the same comment to me, at some point I start to think that maybe I am wrong and they are right....ya think?  I mean, what are the chances that three different people make the similar statement to you about the content of your posts?  Perhaps you need to work on your communication skills if this isn't what you are intending to say.
 
 
Well considering we dont live in the first century Middle East, I dont think any of us live in conditions comparable to the disciples.  Perhaps we should give up running water, electricity, and pooping indoors as well?  By your rationale, the only real way to be a disciple is if we give up our jobs, put on cloaks and walk from town to town in sandals learning via 1st century schooling practices.  Of course, we need to make sure we take dirt roads...because paved roads would be to comfy and undisciple-like.  The kingdom of God does not consist of eating, drinking or home size.  You are majoring in minors here.  Greed is a sin.  Having a job or running water is not.
 
 
You said I need to quit my job to be a disciple.  My response was, "What if my job involves spreading the Gospel with others?"  Should I quit my job to meet your understanding of Christ's standards to be a disciple if my job revolves around spreading the Gospel?
 
 
What if my job is the means by which God desires to provide for my needs?  I mean, after all, Paul did tell us to work with our hands and earn money so we could be generous to others.... Oh..and last I checked, the Proverbs are filled with lessons about working diligently with our hands every day...you know...sowing and reaping.  I dont think provision from God has to be miraculous or non-job related to be valid.  I give thanks to God for my job and I see my pay as provision from His hand.  
 
 
For the same reason I am bothered when Mormon's show up to my house telling me they have more information about Jesus.
 
 
Perhaps you just are not a very good communicator.

Your snide remarks are getting a bit tiresome. You assume that by selling what you have you are automatically taking a vow of poverty. That isn't what Jesus said. He said that you can't work for God and work for money. This isn't a problem with my ability to communicate. This is a problem with people not wanting to accept what Jesus is plainly stating. Jesus is saying that if you want to be a disciple you're going to have to step out in faith, and start working for your Father in heaven instead of relying on your own ability to make money. You're going to have to work for Him as your employer.

What's even more important is that even if God decides that you're supposed to live in poverty, that's a small price to pay for the kingdom. Walking in faith means walking according to God's Word regardless of what may come; none of it matters in comparison to the kingdom. No judgements here. I'm not passing judgement on anyone here. I'm simply pointing out the gospel message and you're free to accept it or reject it.
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#42
shnarkle

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Since the OP was "
 
"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"
 
One thing for sure it would not be a person in religions.  It was the religious that killed Jesus, stoned Stephens to death, and persecuted Paul for the gospel Jesus gave him for the world.


I like the example Jesus gave of the heretical Samaritan; those despised lowlifes that even Jesus pointed out don't know that salvation comes from the Jews. Yet, he's the one who loves his neighbor. Love, that word that everyone loves to throw around like we know what it means, but just can't seem to show it to the least of Christ's brethren. Why? Because we don't see them as the least of Christ's brethren. We see them as "unbelievers", enemies, or opponents.
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#43
Wormwood

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"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"

 

​Jesus said discipleship came about by 1) baptizing people of all nations and 2) teaching them to obey everything I commanded you.

 

So, I would say discipleship comes as a person hears the message of Christ, believes it, is baptized and is instructed by and obedient to the teachings of Jesus in their daily living.


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#44
shnarkle

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i see reflections now--that likely were not apparent so much even 20 years ago--of "666 in their hand, or their forehead" (everything they do, or everything they think), now applicable to even crop production for profit, but i guess that doesn't mean that one could not still find gainful employment somewhere. But wherever the $ is being sought, the cheapest method is also usually sought, now, too, right. And that is not even getting in to the reality of a $ that is manipulated--and you have to be paid in $s, right. See the difference in United States Notes--what Kennedy was printing--and Federal Reserve Notes, iow. The second requires dilution, and inflation, etc, and they have in fact "crashed" over 99% since their inception. We just don't notice it, having been born and raised with a dollar that shrinks in value over time.
 
And if you advocate some other medium of exchange, you are an enemy of the state. Now i'm seeing the rise of cryptocurrency--BTC is up over $1000 each again--and imo the dollar is hanging by a thread now; it only lacks some trusted source, prolly a sovereign one, to create a trusted crypto exchange...i'm surprised Iran hasn't thought of it yet, actually. They are wanting to dump dollars, and a crypto exchange would be a fait accompli.
 
We can also witness that for like half of our workforce now--prolly 49%, lol--the alt seems to be to work for $, or "peanuts," for less and less than a living wage, every day. Imo it has been figured out that in a "democracy" only 51% of the pop needs to be content, see. There are many other reflections here, such as the debt being paid on $20 Trillion dollars, every day, and bailouts for bonuses, etc, but the point might be that i think one is fairly hard-pressed to justify taking a job for dollars now. The test might be if you even could eschew dollars for any amount of time; as the oppressed here have been forced to do. If you have a mortgage, it is of course pointless to pretend that you are not a slave to your mortgage, etc.


Spot on! It's all Satanic to the core. Ignorance is bliss as they say. God gave us the way to engage in commerce, and it was to be honest weights and measures. There is nothing honest about a central banking system with fractional reserve fiat currencies owned completely by the banking cartels which then take it and gamble it like drunk sailors. It's always been something that has bothered me. I knew what they were doing was wrong, but greed gets the worst of us so easily. I didn't want to look at what I was doing. I justified myself by the fact that I wasn't getting any of these idiotic loans, but I was still in the game making money off ignorant losers just the same. Jesus didn't come so we could now lend to our brother as well as our enemies. He came to tell us that our enemies were to be treated like our brothers. This means we're not supposed to lend money to anyone at interest. It's against the law to lend money at no interest in this country. It just seems so obvious to me now. I don't know why it took me so long to see this. Probably because I just wasn't ready for it until now. I wasn't ready to walk out in faith; I'm still not sure about it now. I just know that I'm much more willing than I ever was before.

People have no ideas what an incredibly massive Ponzi scheme this really is. They have no idea of the magnitude of the deception. It wasn't that long ago that people understood that pretending you had more money than you really did was immoral. Now it's openly condoned. God told Moses and especially Joshua to engage in usury with the inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why? Because in God's eyes it is an instrument of war. It still is. It's one of the best ways to enslave people, and place them into a death grip. It's what a mort(death) gage(grip) really is, yet people just can't wait to get one tied around their necks so they can pay for it for the rest of their lives.

I get these fliers in the mail to come down and see the great deals on new, used, and leased cars. They have scratch offs so I go down to get my 5 or 10 dollar Walmart gift card, but once in a while I sit down to see what their deal is just out of curiosity. I can't believe people are going for these con jobs. They're offering loans that will leave these suckers paying for a car or truck long after the it's completely worthless.

The scam is so simple, it could only work on a simpleton. They get you to focus on your monthly payment, and forget about the total cost with interest. As the monthly payment goes down, the payments extend out into infinity.

I can still remember the first time I decided to buy a house. I went in to get a loan, and after jumping through all the hoops, and signing all the paperwork, I started to ask the loan agent some questions. The house I was buying would end up costing me more than double with the interest payment plan. I woke up one night shortly after I had made an offer on a house. I had just put up the earnest money and started doing my own inspections. I was in a cold sweat, and feeling like I had just sold my soul to the devil. I called the realtor the next day and pulled out of the deal. I never used that mortgage. I decided that if I couldn't do it God's way, I didn't need a house. Less than a year and a half later I was moving into my first home. I owned the home outright. It was a better home in a better neighborhood for less money. I was still trapped though. I ended up buying four more houses before I finally realized that I was just gong to keep on doing this until I died. For what? It's pointless. It's all vanity. Even giving it up is vain. It's just for show if I haven't even got a glimpse of the kingdom.

We think we need to walk in faith because of what's to come, but we can put down something in earnest right now, and it ain't going to cause you to wake up in a cold sweat if you're being convicted. It causes you to sleep like a baby that's just been fed and burped, and wrapped up tight in its crib with a clean, fresh diaper.

My next door neighbor complains because some of the oldsters he bids jobs on want the job done for pennies. What he doesn't understand is that these old guys grew up in the depression. They remember when money used to be worth something; they're kinda living in the past. My next door neighbor is living in fantasy land as well. He doesn't get many jobs anymore. He just can't afford to do the jobs for what people want to pay. So he's going to take a pension that might just last the rest of his life if he doesn't take care of himself. Deep down he knows it, so he drinks and eats junk just to shorten his life so he doesn't run out of what little money he has left.

That sounds pretty bleak, but I'm planting crops, raising chickens and I just noticed that when Jesus says it will be just like the days of Sodom; he says they'll be buying and selling, planting and sowing, giving and taking in marriage. Well other than the marrying part, I'm doing all the rest so I think I'm in serious trouble if I don't figure out how to stop this compulsive gardening, and chicken ranching. I've become addicted to my organic garden and farm fresh free range chickens and eggs. I'm bloated with pride at my self sufficiency, and it's enough to disgust the most self satisfied Pharisees Jesus ever laid eyes on. When I point this stuff out to other people they think I'm being too judgmental. People tell me constantly to stop overthinking it; stop over analyzing it. The problem is that's the way I used to be in my reckless youth. Now, I notice things like being convicted by the Spirit; sometimes on an almost daily basis. I don't much care for it, but it seems to be having a beneficial effect on people around me; just not those who aren't into being convicted. I don't blame them; it's no fun. But playing this game with our funny money ain't any better. The best thing I can come up with is to just get rid of it, especially before it becomes completely worthless. When it reaches it's intrinsic value (zero) some people are going to get the message. I think there will still be plenty that don't though. After all, the whole world is deceived
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#45
H. Richard

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"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"

 

​Jesus said discipleship came about by 1) baptizing people of all nations and 2) teaching them to obey everything I commanded you.

 

So, I would say discipleship comes as a person hears the message of Christ, believes it, is baptized and is instructed by and obedient to the teachings of Jesus in their daily living.

***

I hope you are aware that when Jesus came the nation of Israel was under the Law of Moses.  Everything Jesus taught was in that law.  Are we to be obedient to the Law of Moses??

 

Or are we to acknowledge that Jesus atoned for all the sins of the world.  All of them.  The only thing that condemns a person in this age of grace is un-belief that Jesus' shed blood atoned for all of the person's sins?

 

The child of God, those that have come to Jesus thru faith in His work on the cross are saved by belief, faith, trust in His work on the cross.  The child of God is kept by God and what he/she does in their sinful flesh is between them and God..


Edited by H. Richard, Yesterday, 07:37 AM.

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#46
Wormwood

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I hope you are aware that when Jesus came the nation of Israel was under the Law of Moses.  Everything Jesus taught was in that law.  Are we to be obedient to the Law of Moses??

 

 

The great commission I was referring to in Matthew 28 was given after the resurrection and the establishment of the new covenant.  So, no, Jesus did not give these commands for making disciples under the Law of Moses.

 

Or are we to acknowledge that Jesus atoned for all the sins of the world.  All of them.  The only thing that condemns a person in this age of grace is un-belief that Jesus' shed blood atoned for all of the person's sins?

 

 

Both the New and Old Testament equates disobedience with unbelief.  Grace is not foreign to the Old Testament.  

 

The child of God, those that have come to Jesus thru faith in His work on the cross are saved by belief, faith, trust in His work on the cross.  The child of God is kept by God and what he/she does in their sinful flesh is between them and God..

 

 

Which is what I said.  A person becomes a disciple by hearing, believing, being baptized and walking in faith after the commands of Jesus.


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#47
bbyrd009

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Spot on! It's all Satanic to the core. Ignorance is bliss as they say. God gave us the way to engage in commerce, and it was to be honest weights and measures. There is nothing honest about a central banking system with fractional reserve fiat currencies owned completely by the banking cartels which then take it and gamble it like drunk sailors. It's always been something that has bothered me. I knew what they were doing was wrong, but greed gets the worst of us so easily. I didn't want to look at what I was doing. I justified myself by the fact that I wasn't getting any of these idiotic loans, but I was still in the game making money off ignorant losers just the same. Jesus didn't come so we could now lend to our brother as well as our enemies. He came to tell us that our enemies were to be treated like our brothers. This means we're not supposed to lend money to anyone at interest. It's against the law to lend money at no interest in this country. It just seems so obvious to me now. I don't know why it took me so long to see this. Probably because I just wasn't ready for it until now. I wasn't ready to walk out in faith; I'm still not sure about it now. I just know that I'm much more willing than I ever was before.

People have no ideas what an incredibly massive Ponzi scheme this really is. They have no idea of the magnitude of the deception. It wasn't that long ago that people understood that pretending you had more money than you really did was immoral. Now it's openly condoned. God told Moses and especially Joshua to engage in usury with the inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why? Because in God's eyes it is an instrument of war. It still is. It's one of the best ways to enslave people, and place them into a death grip. It's what a mort(death) gage(grip) really is, yet people just can't wait to get one tied around their necks so they can pay for it for the rest of their lives.

I get these fliers in the mail to come down and see the great deals on new, used, and leased cars. They have scratch offs so I go down to get my 5 or 10 dollar Walmart gift card, but once in a while I sit down to see what their deal is just out of curiosity. I can't believe people are going for these con jobs. They're offering loans that will leave these suckers paying for a car or truck long after the it's completely worthless.

The scam is so simple, it could only work on a simpleton. They get you to focus on your monthly payment, and forget about the total cost with interest. As the monthly payment goes down, the payments extend out into infinity.

I can still remember the first time I decided to buy a house. I went in to get a loan, and after jumping through all the hoops, and signing all the paperwork, I started to ask the loan agent some questions. The house I was buying would end up costing me more than double with the interest payment plan. I woke up one night shortly after I had made an offer on a house. I had just put up the earnest money and started doing my own inspections. I was in a cold sweat, and feeling like I had just sold my soul to the devil. I called the realtor the next day and pulled out of the deal. I never used that mortgage. I decided that if I couldn't do it God's way, I didn't need a house. Less than a year and a half later I was moving into my first home. I owned the home outright. It was a better home in a better neighborhood for less money. I was still trapped though. I ended up buying four more houses before I finally realized that I was just gong to keep on doing this until I died. For what? It's pointless. It's all vanity. Even giving it up is vain. It's just for show if I haven't even got a glimpse of the kingdom.

We think we need to walk in faith because of what's to come, but we can put down something in earnest right now, and it ain't going to cause you to wake up in a cold sweat if you're being convicted. It causes you to sleep like a baby that's just been fed and burped, and wrapped up tight in its crib with a clean, fresh diaper.

My next door neighbor complains because some of the oldsters he bids jobs on want the job done for pennies. What he doesn't understand is that these old guys grew up in the depression. They remember when money used to be worth something; they're kinda living in the past. My next door neighbor is living in fantasy land as well. He doesn't get many jobs anymore. He just can't afford to do the jobs for what people want to pay. So he's going to take a pension that might just last the rest of his life if he doesn't take care of himself. Deep down he knows it, so he drinks and eats junk just to shorten his life so he doesn't run out of what little money he has left.

That sounds pretty bleak, but I'm planting crops, raising chickens and I just noticed that when Jesus says it will be just like the days of Sodom; he says they'll be buying and selling, planting and sowing, giving and taking in marriage. Well other than the marrying part, I'm doing all the rest so I think I'm in serious trouble if I don't figure out how to stop this compulsive gardening, and chicken ranching. I've become addicted to my organic garden and farm fresh free range chickens and eggs. I'm bloated with pride at my self sufficiency, and it's enough to disgust the most self satisfied Pharisees Jesus ever laid eyes on. When I point this stuff out to other people they think I'm being too judgmental. People tell me constantly to stop overthinking it; stop over analyzing it. The problem is that's the way I used to be in my reckless youth. Now, I notice things like being convicted by the Spirit; sometimes on an almost daily basis. I don't much care for it, but it seems to be having a beneficial effect on people around me; just not those who aren't into being convicted. I don't blame them; it's no fun. But playing this game with our funny money ain't any better. The best thing I can come up with is to just get rid of it, especially before it becomes completely worthless. When it reaches it's intrinsic value (zero) some people are going to get the message. I think there will still be plenty that don't though. After all, the whole world is deceived

the $ has already crashed over 99%, and is only maintained  by the strongest standing army now. 


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Who told you that you were naked?


#48
shnarkle

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the $ has already crashed over 99%, and is only maintained  by the strongest standing army now.


I think that's a big part of the equation, but ignorance and blind faith also play a role.  When the dollar reaches its intrinsic value, if the con game doesn't work, then bullets will be used to persuade us.  I suspect they will come up with some disaster or catastrophe to blame the collapse on.  Something like computer hackers hacking into the banking system and erasing accounts, or a computer glitch like the one's that happen when it becomes overloaded with too much trading.  Sorry, it's all gone.  Perhaps something like a war would also work.
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