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Two In The Field One Is Taken One Is Left

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#1
Love123

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TWO IN THE FIELD ONE IS TAKEN ONE IS LEFT...IS THIS RAPTURE?........(No)Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other leftThis is not Rapture; this would mean half of the worlds population is taken up in the Rapture.A full half of the worlds population does not believe.This is referring to Judgment.As it was in Noahs day..They were eating and drinking and marrying and working and so forth.Unaware and then the rains came.Judgment.So it will be for the Second Coming of Christ two in the fields..One shall be taken and sent to the millennium ... The other shall perish..This refers to Judgment.... Not Rapture.
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#2
HammerStone

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This also appears in Matthew 24.Matthew 24:40-46Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.Our Lord comes but once and blessed are those who are found in the field working by doing the work of the Lord! The ones who have left are the ones who will participate in the falsehood of the rapture where you fly away magically before Christ comes even though the Bible clearly speaks of a Second Advent (or Coming) not Second Advents (or Second Comings). They are not hoping to escape persecution, but they are willing and able to die for their Lord and to bring more to know him.
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#3
Love123

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Our Lord comes but once and blessed are those who are found in the field working by doing the work of the Lord! The ones who have left are the ones who will participate in the falsehood of the rapture where you fly away magically before Christ comes even though the Bible clearly speaks of a Second Advent (or Coming) not Second Advents (or Second Comings). They are not hoping to escape persecution, but they are willing and able to die for their Lord and to bring more to know him.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The scripture clearly states he comes to the clouds...............for the Rapture.Not to earth...........When he comes to earth..................it not for Rapture.............It is Revelation.I wonder you can explain that away?Rev. 4 * After this I looked, and, behold, a door........ Was opened in Heaven*: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, .................Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. .....................................CHRIST CALLS HIS BRIDE. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. 5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.Rev. 19:11 *And I saw heaven opened* ...and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make... war.Looks like two separate events...............once to the clouds and once to earth.To the clouds.... up........up..........first the dead in Christ and then the living.To earth ......down...........down.........Jesus descends with his saints....... The City of the New Jerusalem.
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#4
HammerStone

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Where in the world do you get the idea that the first description has anything whatsoever to do with this idea of a rapture? Revelation 4 is talking about the vision that John saw and clearly doesn't have anything to do with judgement nor Christ's return from above. If you'll keep reading right on through Revelation 5 and Revelation 6, you'll see that this is setting the stage for the 6 seals, 6 vials, and 6 trumps that are yet to come at this point in the vision. God has given John a view into heaven here.Where, in error, you have the idea that Christ calls his bride, anyone can see that clearly it's John being called to see what he will write down in his vision for us to have for the latter days. Reading into it that John is somehow representative of all Christians is simply foolish.
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#5
Love123

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(SwampFox)
Where in the world do you get the idea that the first description has anything whatsoever to do with this idea of a rapture? Revelation 4 is talking about the vision that John saw and clearly doesn't have anything to do with judgement nor Christ's return from above. If you'll keep reading right on through Revelation 5 and Revelation 6, you'll see that this is setting the stage for the 6 seals, 6 vials, and 6 trumps that are yet to come at this point in the vision. God has given John a view into heaven here.Where, in error, you have the idea that Christ calls his bride, anyone can see that clearly it's John being called to see what he will write down in his vision for us to have for the latter days. Reading into it that John is somehow representative of all Christians is simply foolish.
Chapter four begins the prophetical future.Remember chapter... 1, vs. 19:WRITE THE THINGS WHICH THOU HAS SEEN, AND THE THINGS WHICH ARE AND THE THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER. That text presented three tenses and informed us that the Book of revelation is written in Chronological order.The past- chapter one...The present – chapters two and three.The history of the seven churches to the present time and the future – Chapters 4 through 22.
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#6
HammerStone

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That is, of course, ignoring the first person narration of the entire book. I guess we're all going to be doing a lot of writing up in heaven after we're raptured away as we rewrite the book of Revelation:Revelation 21:5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.Not to mention that Revelation 21 spends time describing the city and receiving the measurements of it. The "I" is often commanded by God to write down things or not to write them down. The notion that this is symbolic of all Christians is absurd when you let the Bible do the talking.Oh, and of course lest we forget:Revelation 10:4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.Revelation 22:8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
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#7
Love123

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It’s easy to take a text out of context and end up with a pretext.To say Come Up Hither was for John and not the Church............Changes the Bible and the following of chronological order.............Has no order does it?
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#8
HammerStone

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I don't quite know how the singular noun "I" can be taken out of context but you have indeed done it. I think that's quite clear to see because John establishes a frame around the book of Revelation where he is our guide in a vision sent to him by God. John is our human guide putting human words to explain the glory of God (try to). There is no other explanation for the use of "I" without taking it completely out of context. We see the use of the same first person view in other decidedly prophetic books of the Bible such as Daniel and Ezekiel amongst others. Out of context? I think not.
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#9
Erudite Celt

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TWO IN THE FIELD ONE IS TAKEN ONE IS LEFT...IS THIS RAPTURE?........(No)Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other leftThis is not Rapture; this would mean half of the worlds population is taken up in the Rapture.A full half of the worlds population does not believe.This is referring to Judgment.As it was in Noahs day..They were eating and drinking and marrying and working and so forth.Unaware and then the rains came.Judgment.So it will be for the Second Coming of Christ two in the fields..One shall be taken and sent to the millennium ... The other shall perish..This refers to Judgment.... Not Rapture.

It has always been my understanding that Luke 17:36 was a furtherance to what he said in chapter 13:25 of the same book: Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' Doing work or deeds for the Lord will not be our salvation. When the Lord comes he will see two brothers working together ,doing the same work but only one will be saved!
it could not be more clearly stated than the parallel verses in Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Edited by Erudite Celt, 22 June 2012 - 11:29 AM.

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#10
Arnie Manitoba

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I tend to expect a pre-trib rapture .... and certainly expect a pre-wrath rapture ..... yet I always had trouble accepting the phrase ... "one taken ... one left" ... refers to a rapture event.

There is something like a billion Christians in a world of 6 billion people .... so the numbers do not add up.

On the other hand if ... "one taken ... one left"... is the rapture ..... could it be possible there is a huge revival where half the world accepts Christ during those times ??

Just thinking out loud .... I have no firm position on what it means. It has always been a head-scratch-er for me.
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#11
Erudite Celt

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I tend to expect a pre-trib rapture .... and certainly expect a pre-wrath rapture ..... yet I always had trouble accepting the phrase ... "one taken ... one left" ... refers to a rapture event.

There is something like a billion Christians in a world of 6 billion people .... so the numbers do not add up.

On the other hand if ... "one taken ... one left"... is the rapture ..... could it be possible there is a huge revival where half the world accepts Christ during those times ??

Just thinking out loud .... I have no firm position on what it means. It has always been a head-scratch-er for me.

Hi Arnie, the billion Christians you speak of are mostly Christians by infant baptism. The vast majority of those born Christian go on to live secular lives so aren't Christians in the biblical sense only the demographical sense. The once saved always saved belief of many Christians has coloured the truth of salvation.
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#12
kaoticprofit

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TWO IN THE FIELD ONE IS TAKEN ONE IS LEFT...IS THIS RAPTURE?........(No)Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other leftThis is not Rapture; this would mean half of the worlds population is taken up in the Rapture.A full half of the worlds population does not believe.This is referring to Judgment.As it was in Noahs day..They were eating and drinking and marrying and working and so forth.Unaware and then the rains came.Judgment.So it will be for the Second Coming of Christ two in the fields..One shall be taken and sent to the millennium ... The other shall perish..This refers to Judgment.... Not Rapture.


This is not the rapture. This is the separation of the sheep and goats which is a judgment that determines who enters the millenium.

Edited by kaoticprofit, 23 June 2012 - 06:49 AM.

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Habakkuk 1:9  (the jihadist) They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, (5 times a day) and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. (world domination)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.endtimesreport.com/
http://www.tribwatch.com/

#13
Erudite Celt

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This is not the rapture. This is the separation of the sheep and goats which is a judgment that determines who enters the millenium.

@'kaoticprofit' Ref you sig: Habakkuk 1:19 (the jihadist) They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, (5 times a day) and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. (world domination)

Did you not know that it is a grave sin to add to or take away from the words recorded in the Old and New Testaments? I cannot find a reference to (5 times a day) in any of my bibles! Habakkuk is also referring to the Chaldean victory over Judah. This was a prophesy already fulfilled centuries before Christ and the advent of Islam.
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#14
kaoticprofit

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@'kaoticprofit' Ref you sig: Habakkuk 1:19 (the jihadist) They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, (5 times a day) and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. (world domination)

Did you not know that it is a grave sin to add to or take away from the words recorded in the Old and New Testaments? I cannot find a reference to (5 times a day) in any of my bibles! Habakkuk is also referring to the Chaldean victory over Judah. This was a prophesy already fulfilled centuries before Christ and the advent of Islam.


I disagree with you!

Habakkuk 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.

Edited by kaoticprofit, 23 June 2012 - 07:45 AM.

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Habakkuk 1:9  (the jihadist) They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, (5 times a day) and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. (world domination)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.endtimesreport.com/
http://www.tribwatch.com/

#15
veteran

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Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(KJV)

The answer to what the one taken and the other left is about is given in that very last verse. Christ gave a parallel verse to that in Matt.24:28 where the word "body" is "carcase" instead (literally per the Greek also). The first one taken is taken in deception. Eagles do not... go after what's already 'dead' (carcase). So those eagles are really FAKES, trying to pass themselves off as authentic. In the going after 'carcase' sense, those are actually vultures.


The Luke 17 event of two men in one bed, two women grinding at the mill, two men in the field, one taken and the other left, is about the deceived vs. those who remain waiting on Christ.

Per Christ's parable in Matt.13, the 'field' represents the world. So with the two men in the field, one seeks to be taken out of the world, and the other does not.

With the two women grinding, that's about working. To stay at the grinding wheel is symbolic of working for Christ, remaining faithful all the way to His coming, not being deceived. It's about remaining a good steward, giving the meat in due season. The one who seeks to leave goes to another, not waiting on Christ.

This 'taken' idea was actually first covered back in Isaiah...


Isa 8:13-17
13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.
14 And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples.
17 And I will wait upon the LORD, That hideth His face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for Him.
(KJV)

Notice how those 'taken and snared' is given in contrast to those who 'wait upon the LORD' and look for Him.


Isa 28:13-16
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, "We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves":
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
(KJV)

Because God's Word was to them "precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line...," His Word became a stone of stumbling and rock of offense to them, so they might go and fall backward, be broken, snared and taken (i.e., into deception). Notice how God contrasts those with the believer that stays on the true foundation through Christ, not making "haste". The idea of haste means to be in a hurry. We can't be that way if we want to understand God's Word, nor can we be that way about Christ's second coming in wanting to escape and leave.


Per Matt.24:23-26, 2 Thess.2, and Rev.13:11 forward, Christ revealed that a specific false one is to appear in the last generation that will see Christ's second coming. That false one is to work great signs and wonders on the earth to deceive with, exalting himself over all that is worshiped or that is called God. We're told that false one will setup an "image of the beast" for all to bow in false worship, with those who refuse are to be killed. That's who those fake "eagles" which the first ones taken will flee to. Those fake eagles represent Satan's host on earth with their god, the coming false messiah. The deceived first ones taken will think that false one is Christ having returned.
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#16
Retrobyter

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Shalom, HammerStone.

That is, of course, ignoring the first person narration of the entire book. I guess we're all going to be doing a lot of writing up in heaven after we're raptured away as we rewrite the book of Revelation:Revelation 21:5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.Not to mention that Revelation 21 spends time describing the city and receiving the measurements of it. The "I" is often commanded by God to write down things or not to write them down. The notion that this is symbolic of all Christians is absurd when you let the Bible do the talking.Oh, and of course lest we forget:Revelation 10:4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.Revelation 22:8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.


LOL! Yes, I can see us doing a lot of "writing up in heaven after we're raptured away":

I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy....

Written out 100,000 times! And then,...

I will love my brother as myself.
I will love my brother as myself.
I will love my brother as myself....

Another 100,000 times or whatever it takes until it sinks in!

Have a great Lord's Day (Yowm Richown)!

Shalom, Love123.

It’s easy to take a text out of context and end up with a pretext.To say Come Up Hither was for John and not the Church............Changes the Bible and the following of chronological order.............Has no order does it?


Y'know what? IF "to say Come Up Hither was for John and not the Church" "changes the Bible and the following of chronological order" when INDEED those were words to John, then I suggest that you have a problem in your understanding of the "Bible and the chronological order!" Even die-hard, independent, fundamentalist, KJV-only Baptists know that the words were written to John! Only a handful of preachers still try to use the phrase for the rapture call, although that was a common practice back in the 1950s!

The words in Greek are "Anaba hoode" (using an "oo" for omega). And, according to Biblos.com (Interlinearbible.org), it's an aorist, imperative, active verb with the second-person, singular ending. Therefore, it is a command form meaning, "(you singular)-come-up here!" The voice was not directed to a third-person, singular entity nor was it directed to multiple people. It was directed to a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL - JOHN (Yochanan)!
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In the Messiah's love,

Retrobyter

 


#17
Arnie Manitoba

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This is not the rapture. This is the separation of the sheep and goats which is a judgment that determines who enters the millenium.

I have always understood that the separation of the sheep and goats happens in front of the judgement throne ..... not in the fields or beds on earth.

An interesting side note is that Christians are often referred to as sheep , whereas the occult , much of Islam , as well as secular metal music identify with the goat.

Think about it next time you see goat symbols. Anyone else notice it ? thanks.

I think the difficulty in understanding this subject is compounded by Jesus' reply as highlighted below .....

I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”
“Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
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#18
rockytopva

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Lets look at the word of God... For in these last days men begin to scoff at the idea of the Lord's Coming (rapture, or whatever you want to call it)...


2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5-6. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7-8. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3: 2-10
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#19
veteran

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I have always understood that the separation of the sheep and goats happens in front of the judgement throne ..... not in the fields or beds on earth.

An interesting side note is that Christians are often referred to as sheep , whereas the occult , much of Islam , as well as secular metal music identify with the goat.

Think about it next time you see goat symbols. Anyone else notice it ? thanks.



There's even more to it. In Jeremiah 24, God showed him a vision of two baskets of figs to represent two manner of peoples. One basket of good figs and another basket of rotten figs. In real fig horticulture, the original edible variety was called the Smyrna fig, from Smyrna, Turkey. And the bitter fig called the Caprice, but nicknamed the 'goat' fig.
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#20
terry

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Why concern yourself with the specifics when a generalization is inferred? Certainly, we all realize that nbt 1/2 of the world's population will go anywhere all at once. Ok, does this mean if you are not in a field or a woman at a grinding mill - you will remain... Thi would of course mean maybe pehaps 100 women in America could go, but probably that is a high estimate as grinding mills are run by machines and computers and mostly by men, so half the grinding machines and computers are going to go? And most of the men in the fields in America are llegal immagrants, not the owners, so now we got machines, computers and illegal immagrants going ahem... somewhere - real quick? How about a different approach... it is a depiction of events primarily to describe in general form, an idea as to the rapture. This does not mean stop being the watchman, it does imply rapture...so there is a destination. If half the people were "taken" killed would it not say killed? Of course, in hunting terminology in this day and age "taken" means killed. Common sense should apply?
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Understand the wisdoms of those chosen by God... one was swallowed by a whale and another got a major hair cut, both for being prone to mistakes.  Prophets are human too.


#21
veteran

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Why concern yourself with the specifics when a generalization is inferred? Certainly, we all realize that nbt 1/2 of the world's population will go anywhere all at once. Ok, does this mean if you are not in a field or a woman at a grinding mill - you will remain... Thi would of course mean maybe pehaps 100 women in America could go, but probably that is a high estimate as grinding mills are run by machines and computers and mostly by men, so half the grinding machines and computers are going to go? And most of the men in the fields in America are llegal immagrants, not the owners, so now we got machines, computers and illegal immagrants going ahem... somewhere - real quick? How about a different approach... it is a depiction of events primarily to describe in general form, an idea as to the rapture. This does not mean stop being the watchman, it does imply rapture...so there is a destination. If half the people were "taken" killed would it not say killed? Of course, in hunting terminology in this day and age "taken" means killed. Common sense should apply?


What in the world are you 'going on' about Terry?

The idea of the two women grinding at the mill our Lord Jesus used is a SYMBOLIC ANALOGY. Just like His idea that you don't put new wine into old bottles (skins), He wasn't literally talking about making wine.

And if you think our Lord Jesus meant the first one taken there that He mentioned means one of His being raptured out, you are sorely mistaken. The first one taken will be where those fake eagles are gathered that He mentioned. It is a 'warning', not an admonition for His Church. Study the last section of Luke 17 again carefully.
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#22
terry

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Veteran wrote: " What in the world are you 'going on' about Terry? "

Well Vet is seems allot of the time a symbolic or generalization is the correct descernment but people tend to redefine is as speciffic. Meaning that 50% of the world would be rapttured. Of course, that is not true and the reference to one being taken and one left was a generalization...that was all.

you wrote:
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
It does not say that. you added the word " men " and so, put them in bed together. oops Vet. I understand already.
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Understand the wisdoms of those chosen by God... one was swallowed by a whale and another got a major hair cut, both for being prone to mistakes.  Prophets are human too.


#23
veteran

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Veteran wrote: " What in the world are you 'going on' about Terry? "

Well Vet is seems allot of the time a symbolic or generalization is the correct descernment but people tend to redefine is as speciffic. Meaning that 50% of the world would be rapttured. Of course, that is not true and the reference to one being taken and one left was a generalization...that was all.


The idea of symbolic language and analogy isn't difficult. Every people's culture uses both within idioms, figures of speech, etc. And so does God's Word. They are only tools to make something easier to understand, not more difficult. What I don't understand is how so many brethren could be confused about that usage, since we all use them in our daily lives with many sayings, a lot of the time with comparing two unrelated things with each other.


you wrote:
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
It does not say that. you added the word " men " and so, put them in bed together. oops Vet. I understand already.


I was referring to Luke 17:35 about the two women, which you final got apparently.

I was wanting you to re-read those Luke 17 verses again, especially the final verse...

Luke 17:37
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Its Matthew 24 parallel:

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

The conversation thus was, two men will be in one bed, one taken and the other left, two women grinding at the mill, one taken and the other left, and then His disciples ask Him, "Where, Lord"? And He answers,"Wheresoever the body (carcase of Matt.24:28) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Our Lord Jesus' answer CHANGES the whole perspective about the idea of those two men in one bed, and two women grinding at the mill. Per His answer of Luke 17:37, a 'rapture' idea cannot be applied to that.

The reason no 'rapture' idea can be applied there is because our Lord's answer to 'where' those first one's 'taken' is in the negative sense.

So the next question should be, WHY did He use that analogy of two men in one bed? What's the idea of that bed about? In essence it's about WHO's symbolic bed we are in for the last days, in regards to remaining Faithful in waiting for Christ's return, or instead going to another in spiritual harlotry of false worship. To be gathered where those fake eagles are means being a dead 'carcase' (spiritual dead sense), and gathered to the coming false one in false worship.
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#24
terry

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Our Lord Jesus' answer CHANGES the whole perspective about the idea of those two men in one bed, and two women grinding at the mill. Per His answer of Luke 17:37, a 'rapture' idea cannot be applied to that.

I have considered this verse, thanks for pointing it out. If in the rapture the physical body is left behind so the transaction appears to be a mass death related - then it could be the rapture. If not as in your contention then it is certainly a different event all together.
Even for me who seems to depict the rapture as having definate characteristics, there is also parts in my understanding for further clarification. I expect my current understanding to be correct, but I do have an objective mind here. And I do see your point with allot of validity.So more consideration is required and I will keep an open mind.
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Understand the wisdoms of those chosen by God... one was swallowed by a whale and another got a major hair cut, both for being prone to mistakes.  Prophets are human too.


#25
veteran

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Our Lord Jesus' answer CHANGES the whole perspective about the idea of those two men in one bed, and two women grinding at the mill. Per His answer of Luke 17:37, a 'rapture' idea cannot be applied to that.

I have considered this verse, thanks for pointing it out. If in the rapture the physical body is left behind so the transaction appears to be a mass death related - then it could be the rapture. If not as in your contention then it is certainly a different event all together.
Even for me who seems to depict the rapture as having definate characteristics, there is also parts in my understanding for further clarification. I expect my current understanding to be correct, but I do have an objective mind here. And I do see your point with allot of validity.So more consideration is required and I will keep an open mind.


You might desire to use that open mind to look at the idea of being taken and snared per the Isaiah 8 & 28 Scripture, for it is related to those Luke 17 metaphors our Lord Jesus was giving about being 'taken'. It's about being 'taken' in deception. And in deception to whom for the last days would that be to?

Men's idea of what the 'rapture' is doesn't have much to do with what God's Word actually reveals about our gathering to Christ Jesus when He appears.

God's Word reveals His consuming fire is going to cleanse the surface of this whole earth, so how does that connect with the idea of the 'rapture'? If you'll notice, the 'rapturists' don't like that kind of connection with their 'rapture' ideas at all! They're main connection with the idea is 'escapism'.

On the "day of the Lord", which is when our Lord Jesus returns "as a thief", that's also when all on earth are going to be 'changed', in "a twinkling of an eye" according Apostle Paul. It's God's consuming fire burning today's worldly order of flesh man off this earth with that event, as Peter showed us in 2 Pet.3:10 about that day. Zap! and this present world is burned up (surface cleansing), at an instant. No weapon of man can compare with that consuming fire from God, for He is a consuming fire as written.

Edited by veteran, 29 October 2012 - 05:09 AM.

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#26
John_8:32

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Not a rapture, but a time for the church to flee...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Notice Luke 17:30-31

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

First of all, the word day in verse 30 can mean various things...

G2250
ἡμέρα
hēmera
hay-mer'-ah
Feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning tame, that is, gentle; day, that is, (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

The context is a place of refuge or safety. Noah and family in the ark, Lot and daughters at Zoar. Lot and his family were told to flee, to get out of Sodom and go to the mountains (and Lot bargained for Zoar).

Now verse 31

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

If this were the return of Christ, would one think to clamber down a ladder, run into the house, grab a suitcase, run outside and say "Here I am Lord." Wouldn't you rather expect to put on a new spirit body abnd spirit clothes as described happens at the resurrection? Verse 31 is talking about the time Jesus referred to in mat 24...

Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This is at the time of the return of Christ, it is the time of the flight of the church. A time when one might strongly desire to grab a toothbrush and a change of underwear. Not a rapture, but a time when the church is protected in the wilderness for 3-1/2 years as shown in Rev 12:14

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Edited by John_8:32, 12 November 2012 - 12:45 PM.

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#27
veteran

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Not a rapture, but a time for the church to flee...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


You're confusing two different timeline events, one being the time of great tribulation and the other being the time of Christ's coming. They do not both occur at the same time. The "time, and times, and half a time" is the tribulation timing given in the Book of Daniel and also Rev.11 and 13. That's also when the time is for Christ's servants in Jerusalem to flee that area, i.e., during the tribulation time when the abomination of desolation is setup. Christ's return and our gathering to Him is after that tribulation period per Matt.24:29-31.


Notice Luke 17:30-31

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

First of all, the word day in verse 30 can mean various things...

G2250
ἡμέρa
hēmera
hay-mer'-ah
Feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμaι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning tame, that is, gentle; day, that is, (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

The context is a place of refuge or safety. Noah and family in the ark, Lot and daughters at Zoar. Lot and his family were told to flee, to get out of Sodom and go to the mountains (and Lot bargained for Zoar).

Now verse 31

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

If this were the return of Christ, would one think to clamber down a ladder, run into the house, grab a suitcase, run outside and say "Here I am Lord." Wouldn't you rather expect to put on a new spirit body abnd spirit clothes as described happens at the resurrection? Verse 31 is talking about the time Jesus referred to in mat 24...

Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


It's not the time of Christ's return, it's the time of "great tribulation" like that verse above says. The idea is for those of His servants in Jerusalem to not go back into the house to even pack up belongings, but to get out of that area. It will be because of the coming false messiah being setup there along with the abomination idol. And then... shortly after that abominaton of desolation event, Christ's coming will be just around the corner to destroy that false one with the brightness of His coming like Paul showed in 2 Thess.2.

So as long as the time of "great tribulation" is going on, Christ's coming has not happened yet.
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#28
Rocky Wiley

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Jesus talked a lot about the end time. And according to scripture, it will be the evil ones taken away not the righteous.

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

In Noah's time the same thing happen, the evil ones were destroyed and he and his were left behind.


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#29
veteran

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Jesus talked a lot about the end time. And according to scripture, it will be the evil ones taken away not the righteous.

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

In Noah's time the same thing happen, the evil ones were destroyed and he and his were left behind.


That's exactly right, it's the evil and rebellious that will be the first one's 'taken' in the field, because the Luke 17 Scripture about the ones taken is to the fake eagles as dead carcases.
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#30
terry

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Revelation 7:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

One does not take out the evil and rebellious, then wash then with the blood of the Lamb.  Notice it says "out of great Tribulation" thus meaning they were IN the great Tribulation.  This supports my idea that those rapture come out of the great Tribulation, so no pre-trib rapture and that they are believers in Christ Jesus. 

 

Please understand my position.  During the time I was writing my manuscripts I was given a vision, in it Jesus came to me and I was very alert. He simply asked how I was doing.  I considered this later and pondered that if my understanding was complete errors or skewed that I was not understanding rightly, that surely he would have pointed me in anotoer direction. This does in no manner mean that I was not admantly seeking truth through research.   I spent allot of time considering each idea I obtained, testing it with all I learned. With this understanding comes a position that is not easily swayed.

 

For these reasons..Hhow can one expecct me to alter my understaing simply because someone else thinks their's is correct? Please do not feel this means I think anyone should alter their unsderstanddings just because of mine.  This is a method for us to share our diverse perspectives back and forth until a resolve of truth is obtained.

 

That's my tail and I am waggin' it.


Edited by terry, 02 December 2012 - 05:15 AM.

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Understand the wisdoms of those chosen by God... one was swallowed by a whale and another got a major hair cut, both for being prone to mistakes.  Prophets are human too.





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