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Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?

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#1
Franklin

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I know this is an age old argument, but for the sake of clarity, and interest - what do you think: Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?
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#2
Christina

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Absoulty though some will tell you no! The tribulation will be bring Antichrist to the World we are told and warned that the delusion will be so strong that God shortened the time or even the Elect if possable would be fooled. Into believing him to be christand the whole world followed after the beast that is Satan Now What does God Say to us about this falling away from himMat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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#3
Franklin

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I think so too! See i was told as a kid that i was a Christian- once saved always saved - then I started drinking(but it was okay because I am always saved) - started acting immoral in my purity with women(it was okay because I was always saved) even had affairs! Did I feel bad about it? Yes... but I kept doing those things - Then I repented - cried out for forgiveness... and turned my life around looking back I KNOW I was not saved during those years of loose living and immorality... My whole view is changed now as a REAL CHRISTIAN... Personal experience tells me - you can LOSE your salvation just as if you where never saved... Thats my opinion
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#4
forgivenWretch

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A Chirstian can most definitely backslide, but they will NEVER loose their salvation. For those who say it is possible, then John 3:16 means NOTHING and God is being called a liar. Ever heard of "Everlasting life...Eternal? Can anyone prove form the Bible where God says when He gives us the gift of salvation He can/and or will take it away? If you offer any other scripture as a rebuttal, then at that point all that is happening is again God is being called a liar, because God's word DOES NOT contradict itself!
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#5
forgivenWretch

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(Franklin;41423)
I think so too! See i was told as a kid that i was a Christian- once saved always saved - then I started drinking(but it was okay because I am always saved) - started acting immoral in my purity with women(it was okay because I was always saved) even had affairs! Did I feel bad about it? Yes... but I kept doing those things - Then I repented - cried out for forgiveness... and turned my life around looking back I KNOW I was not saved during those years of loose living and immorality... My whole view is changed now as a REAL CHRISTIAN... Personal experience tells me - you can LOSE your salvation just as if you where never saved... [I'm sorry but no one Can't have the cake and eat it too!]Thats my opinion
You have stated your self that you were NOT saved to begin with! So how can you loose something you never had to begin with?There is not an hour that goes by that you in some manner do not sin, do you really think that Jesus hung on that tree, just for the fun of it? God is not an Indian giver.
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#6
Franklin

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So let's look at my circumstance. A Went to an altarB made life changes - baptism, read bible, prayedC made some very bad choices - VERY badD adultery, alcohol, more adultery, more alcohol - fornication - wild livingE repented - made real life changes F now for 15 years I have been on the path! Was I saved and heaven bound for the entire A through F duration? I don't think so.
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#7
Jerusalem Junkie

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Franklin I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't care how dedicated or serving you are as a Christian you are going to sin its inevitable and going to happen. Jesus once said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Believe me no one here can cast that stone not even me or you. I am not much on the Christian faith anymore but relax man, read Gods word, pray you will know what to do...
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#8
forgivenWretch

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So let's look at my circumstance. A Went to an altarB made life changes - baptism, read bible, prayedC made some very bad choices - VERY badD adultery, alcohol, more adultery, more alcohol - fornication - wild livingE repented - made real life changes F now for 15 years I have been on the path! Was I saved and heaven bound for the entire A through F duration? I don't think so.
Only you and God know the answer to that, Franklin.Salvation:A going to an altar means nothingB making life changes ...changes nothing/ baptism saves nobody/ reading your Bible is something one is required to do but still has nothing to do with one's actual salvation/praying alone does not save you eitherC bad choices....everyone makes themD sin is a sin no matter the sizeE repentance is a part of salvationF following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?Again, only you and God can answer your question about your salvation...any one can make assumptions.Are you saved now? If you truly admitted to God and repented of your sin, and prayed and asked God to forgive you and you believe that He did so, then my assumption would be that you are saved, but again only two people are privy to the truth of that information.If you are saved now, you are saved forever, no matter what sin you commit from now own. It's a one time deal. It is everlasting, eternal.
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#9
Beano

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Romans 11:21: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 022: Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. When your heart is for God you believe that nothing will separate from His love and quite rightly so, but beware if you fall away and stay contrary to the Lords will I believe even your salvation will be in Question. This is what I now believe.Kevin
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#10
ForYou

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Only you and God know the answer to that, Franklin.Salvation:A going to an altar means nothingB making life changes ...changes nothing/ baptism saves nobody/ reading your Bible is something one is required to do but still has nothing to do with one's actual salvation/praying alone does not save you eitherC bad choices....everyone makes themD sin is a sin no matter the sizeE repentance is a part of salvationF following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?Again, only you and God can answer your question about your salvation...any one can make assumptions.Are you saved now? If you truly admitted to God and repented of your sin, and prayed and asked God to forgive you and you believe that He did so, then my assumption would be that you are saved, but again only two people are privy to the truth of that information.If you are saved now, you are saved forever, no matter what sin you commit from now own. It's a one time deal. It is everlasting, eternal.
"F following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?"I do not think I could ever reach an end result. Why because my path,the way to God is an everyday thing,we can not say one day we reached the end result (Unless of course we are dead but then when we go up we still serve the Lord) So the end in my mind is death,but only to a certain point because once in heaven you still praise God!!! style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif
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#11
ncsojourner

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Yes, it is possible.In vs 6, the words, "If they shall fall away...", would be read literally in the Greek as, "and have fallen away"Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. In vs 29, the Greek word translated, "trodden under foot", is a very strong term and conveys the sense of out rage involved in forsaking Christ and returning to Judaism. Or, possibly in this day and age, to what is referred toas judeo-Christianity.Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite [insult] unto the Spirit of grace?
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#12
Franklin

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Lets look at a few passages Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. I Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace These are just a few that stress the importance of not losing your salvation
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#13
Abdul Dawood

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Hallo. The reply which I am posting below is the same which I posted to someone else who asked whether we could lose our salvation or be 'un-saved' I suppose.John 10:28-29I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.That seems pretty definitive to me.
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#14
Franklin

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I would agree that Satan cannot snatch us out of the hands of God - But...(Revelation 2:5) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
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#15
Franklin

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If I could possibly cit another example of such verbiage Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angelsThis implies your name can be in fact blotted out, and Sardis was in danger of such as action. In fact there was a call to repentance for many had defiled their garments Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.-again he is talking to the CHURCH (which is not a building but the people) - They were going to be spewed from the body of Christ - or taken out of itRevelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this booktaken out of the book of life? You can only be taken out if you at one time were in it!
  • blot out his name out of the book of life
  • I will spue thee out of my mouth
  • God shall take away his part out of the book of life
These seem pretty concrete to me.
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#16
Franklin

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Dont forget this text as well Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace ye are fallen from grace
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#17
Abdul Dawood

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Hallo Turtle Franklin,First just in case anybody does not already know:Revelation 2 is a letter to the the church in Ephesus. The first couple of verses clarify who it was written to, then establishing Jesus as the head of all churches (the verse about holding the seven stars). Then the letter praises those at Ephesus for their perseverance and to all outward eyes it appeared that the church was strong. But then we get to verse 4 which states:Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.Notice that the word here used is 'left' not 'lost'. Also, since you are using the NKJ version, that is the one I am using too for clarity.The distinction between leaving and losing is important. Something can be lost quite by accident, but leaving is a deliberate act, though it may not happen suddenly. As well, when we lose something we don’t know where to find it, but when we leave something, we know where to find it.So what did they lose then? As Christians, we are told to love God and one another. The church at Ephesus probably lost the excitement and love both at the same time. The Ephesian church was a working church, and perhaps their works eclipsed the deep relationship with Jesus that they should have been seeking. This leads us into verse 5 which you quoted here. What does Jesus mean when he says "Remember therefore from where you have fallen"?It is this:This means remembering where they used to be in their love for the Lord and for one another and not just focus on doing works.Then he tells them to repent. He wants them to change the direction in which they are going and turn back to the basics of Christianity. Then he says: Do the first worksWhat are the first works?To remember to spend time in his wordTo remember to pray diligentlyTo remember to get excited about telling others about JesusSo anyways, I am not so sure that Jesus is telling them that they are lost, but merely that they need to remember to go back to the basics and remember to not get caught up in being an organization doing works, but an extension of the body of Christ.Wow Franklin, hahaha, before I had even typed out my first reply, you already cited more verses.I am going to read them now and give a reply, but it may take a couple minutes.
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#18
Franklin

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Thanks Bro Consider for a moment - Do men really lose their wives? No, they know where they are, but many times they leave them. This would be a more appropriate wording. I sincerely believe that we as believers/Christians - can walk away from God, from salvation. Its not so much that we got lost - as we left our first love, we left our relationship, we walked away... That is the whole idea of apostasy... Or to turn away from the truth/not endure sound doctrine/believe the lie/turn unto fables... These are all examples of individuals turning to another, in effect leaving God, and leaving the covenant relationship.
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#19
Franklin

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Hallo Turtle Franklin,I am going to read them now and give a reply, but it may take a couple minutes.
Great Bro - I'll wait for you, thanks for taking the time, I am interested in your thoughts!
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#20
forgivenWretch

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"F following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?"I do not think I could ever reach an end result. Why because my path,the way to God is an everyday thing,we can not say one day we reached the end result (Unless of course we are dead but then when we go up we still serve the Lord) So the end in my mind is death,but only to a certain point because once in heaven you still praise God!!! style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif
Ok, fair enough...let me try to rephrase, and try to explain hopefully somewhat better...1. Non-Christian following the path2. Christian following the pathAs a Christian, I 100% agree that we as Christains can not nor will not ever reach on this earth an end result (as in our striving to be like God, but we as Christians upon our salvation have reached the goal or end result of knowing without a doubt that no matter what sin we commit we will spend eternity in heaven with God our Father. My point to Franklin was geared towards non-Christians. They may follow the path for ever but unless they have accepted Christ personally, then their only end result will be eternal death in Hell.God gave us a gift! All we have to do is to accept it! If we do not, then we will pay the price! It matters nothing what we do, have good we try to be, if we do not accept His gift (which is everlasting life in heaven with God) we will perish in hell and it's torment!
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#21
crooner

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Lots of people here need to learn the Gospel. Sin will cut short our lifes,but God will not forsake us. Kriss you on your best rightous day are a sinner. As well as every one else.We are saved justified and sanctified by grace. That means past present and future sins. We sin in our sleep. This world is sin our flesh is sin. If you guys dont get this straight you will never experience Christian peace. This thread sounds like a Jw or a morman sight, or even Roman Cath site.Man I am glad I read this sight. I cant believe Your comment Kriss
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#22
forgivenWretch

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I would agree that Satan cannot snatch us out of the hands of God - But...(Revelation 2:5) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
I would agree that Satan cannot snatch us out of the hands of God - But...
I you truly agree, then there can be no BUT!
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#23
forgivenWretch

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You are here: John 3:15-18 says about Christ: “The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.”The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal
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#24
Abdul Dawood

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Ok Turtle Franklin,Here are some pretty cool notes on the verses which you referenced beginning at Revelation 3:3And I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life: By this, the overcomers are assured of their heavenly citizenship. In the ancient world, death or a criminal conviction could blot out the name of an ancient citizen from the city’s book of the living, which was the city register.i. “In ancient times cities kept a register of their citizens; and when a man died, his name was removed from the register. The risen Christ is saying that, if we wish to remain on the roll of the citizens of God, we must keep our faith flamingly alive.” (Barclay)c. Blot out his name from the Book of Life: Does this mean that someone can lose their salvation? That someone is saved one day - their name is in the Book of Life - and another day, they have fallen away and their name has been blotted out from the Book of Life? We need to first see the context here in Revelation 3:5. The focus is assurance, so we should not think that names are being constantly erased and then re-written. The focus here is on assurance, not the idea that Jesus sits in heaven with a busy eraser. At the same time, we should carefully consider what the Word has to say about the Book of Life.i. There is a Book of Life, and it will be opened and referenced on the Day of Judgement. This means that the Book of Life is real, and will be read. * And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (Revelation 20:12)ii. There is a Book of Life, and it determines if we go to heaven or hell. This means that the Book of Life is important. * And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15)iii. There is a Book of Life, and knowing our names are written there should bring us great joy. * Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven. (Luke 10:20)iv. There is a Book of Life, and there are five different references to people being blotted out of the Book of Life. This means that the idea of being blotted out of the Book of Life should be taken seriously. Perhaps it is only a symbol, and that person’s name was never there to begin with. Even if that is the case, the Lord still wants us to take it seriously, because there are some who by every human appearance are saved, yet will not be in heaven. * Moses said to the Lord: Yet now, if You will forgive their sin; but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written. (Exodus 32:32) * And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.” (Exodus 32:33) * Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. (Psalm 69:28) * He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Revelation 3:5) * And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)A good example of how we should take this warning seriously is the life of a man named Charles Templeton. A generation ago he was deeply involved in the foundations of Youth for Christ and impacted the nation for Jesus. Chuck Smith himself has said how dynamic and powerful a minister he was, and that he would go anywhere to hear him. Many people received Jesus at his meetings, and he was an associate with Billy Graham in the early years. But recently he wrote a book in which he totally denounces his belief in Jesus Christ, denounces even his belief even in God, and says he is an atheist. Charles Templeton totally denounces his early confessions of faith and through his book he wants to “rescue” the people he once brought to Jesus. Obviously, this man - in his present, apostate state - is not going to heaven. You can debate all day long if he was never saved or if he lost his salvation. But at the end of the day, there are two conclusions. First, at one time, by all human appearance he was saved. Second, he didn’t take the warnings of the Bible to keep walking, to keep trusting, to keep persevering in the faith seriously enough.
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#25
Franklin

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Then what do we say about people like Charles Templeton who by all appearances and by the conviction of his OWN heart had a love for God?He know denounces God, perhaps hates Christianity, and seek to convert Christians to atheism!So was he ever saved? The pat answer of baptists is "No, he was never saved" But thats a pat answer and it flies in the face of "If you really mean it in your heart" type of thinkingNo friends Charles made a choice and he surrendered his salvation... Thereby he is no longer slaved, but apostate.
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#26
Abdul Dawood

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Franklin,I am not sure if he was ever saved at all. The very short answer when someone asks me about losing salvation is that if we truly give our lives over to the Lord and let Him be the master of our lives, then we are saved and we have nothing to worry about. If we sin, and really, we all sin, and no sin is greater than another, and we are convicted by our faith and in true repentance come to God and ask forgiveness and turn from our sin, then we are still saved. Even if we lead an entire life of sin, if we are convicted by that sin, and I don't think there is a time limit on repentance, and we again ask for forgiveness and turn from our sin, then we are still saved. The only sin which I see could keep you from entering heaven, as I understand it, is to turn completely away from God. But you don't lose salvation for that sin, but because the person will never accept God and ask for forgiveness anymore.They have made their hearts hard and uncaring for God.Hopefully that made sense, I was going to keep going down your list of verses, but if you prefer to not renew that part of the conversation, that is quite alright with me. Let me know otherwise.Cheerio!
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#27
followerofchrist

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(Franklin;41419)
I know this is an age old argument, but for the sake of clarity, and interest - what do you think: Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?
Read the entire chapter of Hebrews 6. But here is a quick example.4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
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#28
crooner

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Read the entire chapter of Hebrews 6. But here is a quick example.4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
You and I sin very seconed of our lifes. So that means you will not be in heaven. I would keep reading the word until your saved my friend. Your righteousness is filthy rags my friend. Read every scripture you can on salvation Galations, Romans ,Jon 3:16 make a list and compare the list to Hebrew 6.This is something you dont want to mess around with. If we dont have Salvation down we are not Christians.
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#29
Abdul Dawood

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Notes on Hebrews 6:6if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.Remember there is a great difference between falling and falling away. Falling away isn’t just falling into some sin, it is actually departing from Jesus Himself. For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, but the wicked shall fall by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16) The difference is between a Peter and a Judas. If you depart from Jesus, there is no hope!i. The message to these Christians who felt like giving up was clear: if you don’t continue on with Jesus, don’t suppose you will find salvation by just going on with the old basics that are common to Judaism; if you aren’t saved in Jesus, you aren’t saved!ii. If one falls like this, does it mean they can’t repent? That God prohibits their repentance? Remember first that repentance itself is a gift from God; no one genuinely repents without God’s enabling. Second, if one does repent, that in itself is evidence that they have not truly fallen away.iii. The idea is not that “if you fall away, you can’t come back to Jesus ever,” but that “if you turn your back on Jesus, don’t expect to find salvation anywhere else, especially in the foundations of Judaism apart from the fullness of Jesus.”iv. “This passage has nothing to do with those who fear lest it condemns them. The presence of that anxiety, like the cry which betrayed the real mother in the days of Solomon, establishes beyond a doubt that you are not one that has fallen away beyond the possibility of renewal to repentance.” (Meyer)
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#30
Jon-Marc

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(Franklin;41419)
I know this is an age old argument, but for the sake of clarity, and interest - what do you think: Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?
No. He does, however lose fellowship with his Saviour. He will be chastised until he returns and seeks forgiveness. One we are a child of God, we never lose that. We can lose blessings though. If he doesn't return then he could be killed.
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