[whirlwind]

A year or so ago a forum friend commented about the Scripture..."ye are gods." At the time I thought it wasn't properly translated and should have been...ye are God's...showing His possession of us. Later I saw another teaching saying that the elect are gods. Well that threw me for a loop as it sounded much as Satan saying...."For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opeend, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5] The following is what I have learned about this subject:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.12:5 And she brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to RULE ALL NATIONS WITH A ROD OF IRON: And her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

The “she” here is of course Mary who brought forth our Savior, Christ…The Man Child but "she" is also …. Israel bringing forth the "man child," of whom there are many. As Christ was the first born, the first fruit..…so the man child of Israel ( is/are) first fruits to God.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb.

These firstfruits are the man child, His very elect of end times. They are the two witnesses, of which there are two groups…not two individuals!When first learning of this I thought NO, this is not correct but then upon further study I saw the connection from [Revelation 12:5] above and the following verses….

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give POWER OVER THE NATIONS: And he shall rule them with a ROD OF IRON; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER.

This is Christ telling us that He will give the rod of iron to those that overcome. Other mentions of this are....

Daniel 7:21-22 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and PREVAILED AGAINST THEM; Until the Ancient of days came, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN TO THE SAINTS of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto MY TWO WITNESSES, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth. (11:7) And when they shall have FINISHED THEIR TESTIMONY, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and SHALL OVERCOME THEM, AND KILL THEM.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but THEY SHALL BE PRIESTS OF GOD and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.Revelation 1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, Who is the faithful Witness, and the First Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him That loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood, And HATH MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS UNTO GOD AND HIS FATHER; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Ezekiel 44:23 And THEY SHALL TEACH MY PEOPLE the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, ‘YE ARE GODS?’ If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS? How much more things that pertain to this life?Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto OUR GOD KINGS AND PRIESTS, and we shall reign ON THE EARTH.”These are not the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel [Revelation 7:4-8] but another group of 144,000 written of in [Revelation 14:1-4]. These are they that were “redeemed by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.”[Revelation 5:9] As Christ was "caught up to God and to His throne"...so shall the man child of end times. The man child is simply another name for His elect, His first fruits, His two witnesses.

[whirlwind]

I have to disagree with you Whirlwind. I don't believe there two witnesses of groups, but two witnesses of people... And Satan is going to kill these two.

I don't blame you for disagreeing....I argued against it for a long time. Then some Scriptures were opened to me and I see it in a different light now. It's fairly involved and I don't have time to go into it now. I looked for the post I had on this subject on another forum but the forum is down. I promise I'll try to explain as soon as I can. I knew I would have some "splaining to do as soon as I put that in the post. style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

[Vickie]

I don't blame you for disagreeing....I argued against it for a long time. Then some Scriptures were opened to me and I see it in a different light now. It's fairly involved and I don't have time to go into it now. I looked for the post I had on this subject on another forum but the forum is down. I promise I'll try to explain as soon as I can. I knew I would have some "splaining to do as soon as I put that in the post. style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

Well my friend, Whirlwind, I have to agree with Jordan. None of us have it completely YET. For God is opening the verses more daily to us concerning the END of the AGE. I read it the woman or the she is the 12 tribes of Israel. What cinched it for me was what Isaiah wrote in chapter 43. The first two verses is speaking about the water being spewed out that over takes the woman in Rev 12:15. God comes and removes the 144000 of Jacob's seed right before the 1260 days of the Son of Perdition's entering the temple. There are numerous places in the prophets that speak of the remnant that God brings into the coming kingdom and they will be reproducing as the sands of the seas. It was a surprise when I read that and God made it very clear what He had written concerning Jacob's seed. God's is opening the bible prophecy up to us now that we are in the end of the AGE which brings Him back. Stay away from written books and read it all within the bible without books written with their take on it. Our Lord will open your eyes. God has opened Jordan's eyes, and mine to see the same thing in the bible and it is because it is God who is doing it. He teaches us.I don't know Jordan outside of this site. We will all come to the same understanding if we just stick to the bible only. In Christ's precious name Vickie

[tim_from_pa]

I don't blame you for disagreeing....I argued against it for a long time. Then some Scriptures were opened to me and I see it in a different light now. It's fairly involved and I don't have time to go into it now. I looked for the post I had on this subject on another forum but the forum is down. I promise I'll try to explain as soon as I can. I knew I would have some "splaining to do as soon as I put that in the post. style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

When Satan said thatFor God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. he was correct! but the WRONG TREE! The tree of Life was supposed to have accomplished that, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evilMan was created to become as God in place of Lucifer that once had the throne of this earth. Man is a creation higher than the angels (only God is higher than the angels) and Lucifer was commanded to worship Adam is the story is told in Hebrews:And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Is that Christ? Yes! But Christ is the last Adam, the one who became everything Adam was supposed to have become. This passage not only refers to Christ, but to the ancient (Jewish) understanding and thought that Adam was created a clay being and Lucifer and the angels were commanded to worship him because he was to be the son of God. Instead, Lucifer deceived Eve and Adam complied and that gave Lucifer the right to the kingdom of this world that he would have lost.Yes, according to the bible we are to become as Christ, and have his authority, and in that sense "ye are gods". I am one of the few brave enough of the deification of the believer as God is a family. there is only one Yehova God (commonly called the Father son and Holy Spirit) but we are begotten in him with the same nature so that we are likewise like Him---- Elohim.

[Jordan]

I don't blame you for disagreeing....I argued against it for a long time. Then some Scriptures were opened to me and I see it in a different light now. It's fairly involved and I don't have time to go into it now. I looked for the post I had on this subject on another forum but the forum is down. I promise I'll try to explain as soon as I can. I knew I would have some "splaining to do as soon as I put that in the post. style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

When Satan said thatFor God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. he was correct! but the WRONG TREE! The tree of Life was supposed to have accomplished that, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evilMan was created to become as God in place of Lucifer that once had the throne of this earth. Man is a creation higher than the angels (only God is higher than the angels) and Lucifer was commanded to worship Adam is the story is told in Hebrews:And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Is that Christ? Yes! But Christ is the last Adam, the one who became everything Adam was supposed to have become. This passage not only refers to Christ, but to the ancient (Jewish) understanding and thought that Adam was created a clay being and Lucifer and the angels were commanded to worship him because he was to be the son of God. Instead, Lucifer deceived Eve and Adam complied and that gave Lucifer the right to the kingdom of this world that he would have lost.Yes, according to the bible we are to become as Christ, and have his authority, and in that sense "ye are gods". I am one of the few brave enough of the deification of the believer as God is a family. there is only one Yehova God (commonly called the Father son and Holy Spirit) but we are begotten in him with the same nature so that we are likewise like Him---- Elohim.

I do not like the sound of this post. Where on scripture did it say we are to worship Adam? (not referring to Christ) Yes, we are to be like Him, but we can't be as God, for there is only one God and we must worship Him. And we are made a little lower than the angels. (Psalms 8:5, Hebrews 2:7,9) Although we will judge the angels in the Millennium Reign. (I Corinthians 6:3)

[whirlwind]

Well my friend, Whirlwind, I have to agree with Jordan. None of us have it completely YET. For God is opening the verses more daily to us concerning the END of the AGE. I read it the woman or the she is the 12 tribes of Israel. What cinched it for me was what Isaiah wrote in chapter 43.

Yes...the woman is Israel. style_emoticons/default/huh.gif Perhaps I didn't write that clearly but I thought that was what I said.

"The “she” here is of course Mary who brought forth our Savior, Christ…The Man Child but "she" is also …. Israel bringing forth the "man child," of whom there are many. As Christ was the first born, the first fruit..…so the man child of Israel ( is/are) first fruits to God. "

The first two verses is speaking about the water being spewed out that over takes the woman in Rev 12:15. God comes and removes the 144000 of Jacob's seed right before the 1260 days of the Son of Perdition's entering the temple. There are numerous places in the prophets that speak of the remnant that God brings into the coming kingdom and they will be reproducing as the sands of the seas. It was a surprise when I read that and God made it very clear what He had written concerning Jacob's seed. God's is opening the bible prophecy up to us now that we are in the end of the AGE which brings Him back. Stay away from written books and read it all within the bible without books written with their take on it. Our Lord will open your eyes.

That is a terrific connection from Isaiah and Revelation about the flood. style_emoticons/default/smile.gif As far as reading other books...thank you for your suggestion but...I don't read other commentary. I agree that God is opening prophecy to us. Many of us are experiencing that. style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

God has opened Jordan's eyes, and mine to see the same thing in the bible and it is because it is God who is doing it. He teaches us.I don't know Jordan outside of this site. We will all come to the same understanding if we just stick to the bible only. In Christ's precious name Vickie

Yes, He does teach us and I can see that Jordan's eyes are open but surely you realize He doesn't open all of His Words to us at one time?

Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment.Colossians 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God.

There is another scripture I can't think of but it essentially tells us that we are unable to fully understand or take in all of His knowledge. This is an ongoing process...all part of our maturity in Him. My point is...none of us know everything so it is good to learn from others but we must ALWAYS let the Holy Spirit and His Word show us the truth of what is being taught.

[Christina]

This was Satans lie plain and simple ...Its the same lie New Agers follow and I suspect its part of the same Lie Satan will again use in the End Times.

[gumby]

I agree with christina, this was merley satans deciption.

[logabe]

[quote name='tim_from_pa' date='20 March 2009 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1237603612' post='71120']

QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 20 2009, 06:45 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=71110]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]

I don't blame you for disagreeing....I argued against it for a long time. Then some Scriptures were opened to me and I see it in a different light now. It's fairly involved and I don't have time to go into it now. I looked for the post I had on this subject on another forum but the forum is down. I promise I'll try to explain as soon as I can. I knew I would have some "splaining to do as soon as I put that in the post. /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> " border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

When Satan said thatFor God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. he was correct! but the WRONG TREE! The tree of Life was supposed to have accomplished that, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evilMan was created to become as God in place of Lucifer that once had the throne of this earth. Man is a creation higher than the angels (only God is higher than the angels) and Lucifer was commanded to worship Adam is the story is told in Hebrews:And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Is that Christ? Yes! But Christ is the last Adam, the one who became everything Adam was supposed to have become. This passage not only refers to Christ, but to the ancient (Jewish) understanding and thought that Adam was created a clay being and Lucifer and the angels were commanded to worship him because he was to be the son of God. Instead, Lucifer deceived Eve and Adam complied and that gave Lucifer the right to the kingdom of this world that he would have lost.Yes, according to the bible we are to become as Christ, [quote][/quote], and in that sense "ye are gods". I am one of the few brave enough of the deification of the believer as God is a family. there is only one Yehova God (commonly called the Father son and Holy Spirit) but we are begotten in him with the same nature so that we are likewise like Him---- [quote][/quote].This term elohim can refer to either the true God or to a false god. For example, see Exodus 20:2, 3,2 I am the Lord [Yahweh] your God [elohim], who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You shall have no other gods [elohim] before Me.Elohim literally means "a subjector," that is, one who is in a position of authority over others. It is the plural of El, which is spelled with an aleph and a lamed in Hebrew. An aleph means an ox and signifies strength, or the idea of being first, since it is the first letter of their alphabet. A lamed means an ox goad and is a symbol of authority. Thus, El literally means "strong authority" or "first authority." This is literally what "God" or "a god" is.Moses is a good example of this, because in Ex. 7:1 God tells him, See, I have made you a god [elohim] to Pharaoh. This means Moses was given authority to bring judgment to Pharaoh according to the divine law as led by the voice and word of God. It did not make Moses divine.In the same way, we have been given authority over the world and angels too, for Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 6:2, 3,2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life?Of course, since the saints will judge the world, this of necessity means that not all men will be judges. Some would have to be part of the "world" that is to be judged. We know that the overcomers will be the rulers (Rev. 20:6), and their job will be to reign in authority and to judge with righteous judgment.This is the primary purpose and job description of the elohim,that is, overcomers, who are (under Christ) the highest ranking judges of angels and men. -Thus, ye are gods.-Logabe

[Christina]

Sorry Logabe but you are off base here ... Lucifer who is Satan was rebelling long before Adam was created and even if one doesn't believe that ...The fact is ...... He rebelled because he became full of pride and wanted to be God and set his throne above Gods not because he was told to worship Adam .... Isa.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

[logabe]

Christina, on 31 May 2009 - 12:53 PM, said:

Quote

Sorry Logabe but you are off base here ... Lucifer who is Satan was rebelling long before Adam was created and even if one doesn't believe that ...The fact is ...... He rebelled because he became full of pride and wanted to be God and set his throne above Gods not because he was told to worship Adam .... 

Isa.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

I respect the disagreement that you have about thissubject Christina...but it sounds like you have a shootingstar in the making without any facts. It sounds likea Babylonian fable.To misuse God’s authority is to usurp His authority. But to remain in full agreement with God means that we do all things as if it were God Himself doing it. We become His mirror image in the earth. Whatever we bind is bound in heaven. Whatever we loose is loosed in heaven. All we do and say is Amen in agreement.The point of this is to show that Jesus’ statement, “You are gods,” should not be interpreted in a Babylonian way. We are not here to replace God as usurpers of His throne. We are created in His image and likeness. We lost that likeness through Adam’s sin. We regain it through Christ in the proper biblical manner through the New Covenant fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles.In Gen. 3:5, the serpent tempted Adam and Eve with knowledge from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. (NASB)Babylon teaches that the goal of humanity is to usurp the place of God. Nimrod usurped the throne of Noah and Shem and set up his rival kingdom called Babylon. Babylon further teaches that the way to do this is through knowledge. And so, occult organizations such as Freemasonry lure people with the promise of learning hidden knowledge (lost technology) that was lost thousands of years ago. It is presumed that if a person could re-discover this lost knowledge, they could attain immortality and be like God.More than this, they also end up teaching that God was stingy and tried to withhold this knowledge from Adam and Eve. Satan (the serpent) disagreed with God and generously shared this knowledge with Adam and Eve. God then threw a fit and unjustly declared war on Satan, cast him out of heaven, and made men mortal.Occult organizations know that they could not get very far if they openly told people what they believed. So they made their organization secret, or “occult.” They suck people in by promising them knowledge. Then, if initiates accept their teaching, they are admitted to the higher degrees where they learn that “Lucifer” is the good God (the older son), and Jesus, his younger brother, is his rival.This is why Babylon promotes the development of technology. In medical research, they are trying to find the lost secrets of immortality. In searching the heavens with astronomy and sending men to Mars, they are trying to get in touch with advanced civilizations in other solar systems to see if they can teach us the secrets of immortality.I am not against scientific technology, nor do I believe that knowledge is evil in itself. Knowledge is good, as long as it is in submission to Jesus Christ. But I do not agree with those who say we must learn or remember some lost knowledge of who we were in a pre-existent state to qualify for either salvation or sonship. Such teachings make knowledge the basis of salvation or sonship, and it is part of the original serpent’s lie.Salvation has to do with faith, not knowledge. Sonship has to do with character, not the knowledge of some lost or long-forgotten secret about who we are. Our Character is shaped by our knowledge of who God is, not of who we are. The age-old questions, “Who am I? Where did I come from? Where am I going?” These are relevant questions, certainly, but they are not the primary issue. The question is: “Who is God?” Better yet, “Who is Jesus Christ?” Eat of the tree of Life, and you will learn the answer.When we shift our focus from Christ to ourselves, it is not long before we seek to deify man, as the Babylonians did, and then we elevate the soul in place of the spirit.Logabe

[Christina]

fisrt of all I gave you scripture which can not be denied as it says exactly what it means no hidden meaning secondly Isa.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.It also identifies the pit with Lucifer who is Satan ..A fact You have denied in the past ... So sense you do not even know who lucifer is unless you have learned something in the past few months. You are not in the best postion to be telling us the facts about him. Now I never said Satan didnt go after Adam and Eve but its not because God ordered him to worship Adam as you have Said ..It is you that have a shooting star in the making without any facts. It sounds like a Babylonian fable. to quote you Lucifer i.e. Satan rebelled against God as scipture says The man Adam was a means to and End Adam would be the bloodline of whom the Christ would come Lucifer knew Christ/God in the flesh would be his downfall .. He tried to destroy the plan of God ....through Adam and Eve... He failed but he kept trying and does to this day ... Your idea he rebelled because God told him to worship Adam is not only false its written in books that are not of the Bible I have read them But its not whats written in scripture. We are told it was pride and wanting to be God that was the reason Lucifer rebelled its why he became Satan ...He rebelled against God

[Pariah]

John 10:33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,I believe Jesus was referring to the hypocrisey of those that were judging Him as being gods in the sense of being judges to judge Him and yet fail to recognize His work as of the Father as of God and not of man.Psalm 82:5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.Isaiah 41:22Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come. 23Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together. 24Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.The way Jesus spoke to them is the way the two quoted scriptures above were applied to them. Psalm 82:5 clearly shows that the Jews judging Him did not understand and walked in darkness. Of Isaiah 41:22, they could not remember the former things, what they be, that they may consider them and know the latter end of them or declare the things to come, but yet Christ was doing all of that in His ministry on the earth. As "ye are gods" as in being judges, they were doing so very poorly in comparison to Him.

[logabe]

[quote name='Christina' date='31 May 2009 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1243823025' post='74350']fisrt of all I gave you scripture which can not be denied as it says exactly what it means no hidden meaning secondly Isa.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.It also identifies the pit with Lucifer who is Satan ..A fact You have denied in the past ... So sense you do not even know who lucifer is unless you have learned something in the past few months. You are not in the best postion to be telling us the facts about him. Now I never said Satan didnt go after Adam and Eve but its not because God ordered him to worship Adam as you have Said ..It is you that have a shooting star in the making without any facts. It sounds like a Babylonian fable. to quote you [quote]Your idea he rebelled because God told him to worship Adam is not only false its written in books that are not of the Bible I have read them But its not whats written in scripture. We are told it was pride and wanting to be God that was the reason Lucifer rebelled its why he became Satan ...He rebelled against God[/quote][size=3]Okay Christina...this is what is written in the Bibleand also I'll show you what man says.Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he, speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (John. 8:44). In the Garden of Eden is wherewe are searching out the BEGINNING, probing into the very midst of the past, the times before this age and past ages, that we might understand the grand and glorious purposes of our omnipotent and omniscient heavenly Father which He hath purposed from the beginning of the world. How authoritatively the Lord Jesus reveals that way back there,In THE BEGINNING, in even HIS beginning, Satan WAS A MURDERER!MAN says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless. But the apostle John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these words in regard to Satan's origin: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING" (1st John. 3:8). This could not be rightly said of Adam. According to Genesis 2 and 3, it was not until after Adam was created in spirit essence, after he was lowered into the realm of flesh, after he was placed in the Garden, after he named all the animals, after the woman was taken from his side, after she listened to the serpent and ate the forbidden fruit - it was AFTER ALL THESE THINGS that Adam sinned. Adam was not a sinner from the beginning. But the Devil, according to (I John. 3:8) WAS A SINNER FROM THE BEGINNING! Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.Christina, you can believe it any way you want to but, Ibelieve that Jesus and John knew what they were talkingabout...Satan was never ever an angel.Logabe[/size]

[Christina]

Sorry Logabe only need to read as far as your quote"He was a MURDERER (not an angel)" Satan the devil Lucifer is an Angel read the verse again. Who was the first Murder was it Satan/the devil ??NO!!!!!!!!! it was Cain Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. You have still not got it straight Lucifer is only called a man for in Isa 14 for one reason only its set in the time frame of after Christs return ... For those that have wisdom ..666 is the number of a man that man is Satan lucifer the devil the second beast of Rev. The Angel Lucifer is Satan Every Sunday school kid Knows this I dont know how you got so mixed up on this but please ... learn this its important... If you learn this right all kinds of things will snap into place for you ... Satan is the Angel created as Lucifer he guarded the Mercy seat he was created as the Hebrew states the full Pattern that is the most beautiful intelligent Angel ever created .... But he became full of Pride he decided he should be God thus he rebelled against God taking a third of the Angels with him in this rebellion ... Hid Falling made him Satan do you not remember how many times God changes ones name to depict who they are or will become ( think Abram to Abraham) This rebellion started before Adam was ever created ... What do you think Gen 6 is about? the fallen angels mating with daughters of men Satan was the leader of these fallen Angels as Jude tells us they left their first habitation. Their first habitation was heaven.Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. And again Satan travels with the Angels has a face to face with God because he is one of the Angels Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. This meeting was in heaven where the Lord is its said again in Job 2:1 How do you think Satan had the power to do what he did to Job .... To temp Christ in the Desert??? these events are thousands of years apart... This is no manAnd again in Rev. We are told Angels are sometimes called stars (this is Gods symbolic translated by him) So what star is it that falls in 5th trump notice its a Him ..... the devil the serpentant Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The Devil Satan the serpent the man of sin are all the same personage the Fallen Angel Lucifer there are scripture upon scripture upon scripture telling you this ....You can never learn of who the enemy is if you do not get this straight Lucifer is Satan the devil or one of his many other names ..... God never ordered anyone to worship a man not even Adam theres is but one God in our human form we are made a little lower than the Angels ...We are not above the Angels until after the End of the Age .. So you cant take what will come to pass later ..and apply it as your reasoning for the the past

[Pariah]

Galatians 5:14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.2 Timothy 2:13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.Hebrews 5:12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.2 Corinthians 11: 1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.Colossians 1:27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

[logabe]

jtartar, on 07 July 2009 - 08:16 AM, said:

Whirlwind,Whirlwind, You have found many places where gods are mentioned, but you are on the wrong trail. Jesus was talking about the Jews being angry because Jesus had said that God was his FATHER, John 10:33-36. Jesus was telling the Jews that even their leaders were once called gods, Ps 82:6. So Jesus was asking the Jews why they were so angry at him for saying God was his father, when even men were called gods under the Mosaic Law Covenant.Jesus was also called a god, in fact called a mighty god,

Quote

but Jesus is not the Almighty God

, whose name is JEHOVAH, Isa 9:6,7, Ex 6:3. Some Bible translations put Jesus as a god at John 1:18.

Rev. 1:88 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Logabe

[Brother Mike]

We are gods..........................Some really good post for a Christian forum. I am very impressed that there are some that actually read the word and not believe some preconceived notion of things.We are gods!!! We are little g's created in the exact image of God. Our spirits would look just like him if we take the flesh off. Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Jesus operated as God on earth, God was in him, but he never claimed to be God. Paul by the Holy Ghost said that latter. We also have passages that tell us to be perfect even as our father in heaven is perfect, and have the faith of God (Literal translation) in Mark 11:22 Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering, saith to them: Have the faith of God. (Darby)Jesus also when about to be stoned asked why they were going to stone him this time, He thought it was because he healed on the Sabbath. Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said, you are gods? Joh 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God was spoken; and the scripture cannot be broken: Jesus attitude against unbelief was also evident that he expected those that followed him to realize who they were. If we were any less than God then it would be unfair to say that we could do the works he did. Joh 14:11 Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? Joh 14:12 Otherwise believe for the very works' sake. Amen, amen, I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do: and greater than these shall he do. The same father that was in Jesus is also in us. I have seen some pretty awesome things God has done, As time goes on I believe the Holy Ghost is going to reveal who we are, and what is available to us more and more. Whirlwind:

Quote

I have to agree with Jordan. None of us have it completely YET. For God is opening the verses more daily to us concerning the END of the AGE.

We have a lot more to learn, getting past all the defeated junk they preach in church. I am really surprised by these post.......Jesus Is Lord.

[Benoni]

I agree Satan is not Lucifer. Satan can have only one beginning; the Bible clearly says Satan's was a liar, a murderer from his beginning. Religion tries to makes Satan Lucifer by assumption and tradition and nowhere is this noted in God's Word. There are over two hundred different names for God in the Bible from Jehovah to Jesus being the Lamb of God; God has many natures, characters and authorities and that is what a name denotes. Elohim is one of those names which is plural and at times seems so confusing for some times you see a capital “G’ and other a lower case “g”. The name Elohim was first used in Genesis is the first name God used to describe His nature when He created all things. That is why the word “us” is translated in Genesis 1:26. it is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim. 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."Then we get to Psalm 82 which also uses the word Elohim Ps 82: 1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nationsJudge for your self.

[epistemaniac]

Vickie;66174]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/URL]

I don't blame you for disagreeing....I argued against it for a long time. Then some Scriptures were opened to me and I see it in a different light now. It's fairly involved and I don't have time to go into it now. I looked for the post I had on this subject on another forum but the forum is down. I promise I'll try to explain as soon as I can. I knew I would have some "splaining to do as soon as I put that in the post. style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

Well my friend, Whirlwind, I have to agree with Jordan. None of us have it completely YET. For God is opening the verses more daily to us concerning the END of the AGE. I read it the woman or the she is the 12 tribes of Israel. What cinched it for me was what Isaiah wrote in chapter 43. The first two verses is speaking about the water being spewed out that over takes the woman in Rev 12:15. God comes and removes the 144000 of Jacob's seed right before the 1260 days of the Son of Perdition's entering the temple. There are numerous places in the prophets that speak of the remnant that God brings into the coming kingdom and they will be reproducing as the sands of the seas. It was a surprise when I read that and God made it very clear what He had written concerning Jacob's seed. God's is opening the bible prophecy up to us now that we are in the end of the AGE which brings Him back. Stay away from written books and read it all within the bible without books written with their take on it. Our Lord will open your eyes. God has opened Jordan's eyes, and mine to see the same thing in the bible and it is because it is God who is doing it. He teaches us.I don't know Jordan outside of this site. We will all come to the same understanding if we just stick to the bible only. In Christ's precious name Vickie

if we are supposed to just stick to the bible, then why are you bothering to explain your interpretation of the bible? why not just list bible verses without any explanation of them included...? I mean the following words are not found anywhere in Scripture:"Stay away from written books and read it all within the bible without books written with their take on it. Our Lord will open your eyes. God has opened Jordan's eyes, and mine to see the same thing in the bible and it is because it is God who is doing it. He teaches us.I don't know Jordan outside of this site. We will all come to the same understanding if we just stick to the bible only."but if we must stay away from written books and people's "take" on the Scriptures, shouldn't we also have to stay away from your written words and your "take" on what the Scripture means...? how is what you have written anything different from words that are written in books? just because it was written into an online forum, it is still print, just like that found in books, right? or are your or anyone else's words wrong only if they were to be found in a written book? is there something inherently evil about print found in bound books of print? as far as all of us coming to the same understanding if we just stick to the Scriptures, this side of glory, that just won't happen. If the Apostle Paul and Barnabas could have a very sharp disagreement and STILL go out strengthening the churches, carrying out God's work, apparently having God's approval, then it seems pretty clear that we Christians today can disagree with one another on some things... and yet still be carrying out God's work...Act 15:37-41 esv Now Barnabas wanted to take with them John called Mark. (38) But Paul thought best not to take with them one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. (39) And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, (40) but Paul chose Silas and departed, having been commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. (41) And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.just curious...blessings,ken

[Dad of 3]

"...."For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opeend, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]"

While I only skimmed the answers, I didn't see the correct one at all.

God is saying that by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve would have a great deal of knowledge, similar to God's. The 'gods' referred to here is echoed by Jesus as he was being persecuted by the Jews. He tells them that they are gods, great in knowledge and perhaps power but still earthly and thus flawed.

This is one argument that Mormons use to support their erroneous view of being able to attain 'exaltation,' and becoming a god like God.

[Brother Mike]

I am not sure why, but I got a e-mail about this thread. I guess I posted a comment on it somewhere. As one of the reason I left, I see way to much over analysis on such a simple subjects........... "We Are gods"

I am sure somewhere, I posted on the subject....... But man..... after reading all the responses, you can only just throw your hands in the air.

and Abb123............. not that you will post back, but I checked out your site, as the same link mysteriously appeared on another forum. I am not offended by it, but it is very silly. It also shows that you don't mind wasting your time, because nobody here is going to fall for such nonsense....

As Always...........

Jesus Is Lord!!!


Be Blessed everyone.