The discussion on the Christianity Board Forums about The Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil and Satan's Ability to Create produced some statements that I thought, if carried to their extreme, would make God the creator of evil. My efforts to clarify this seemed to make matters worse. So I said I would clairfy my thoughts in a blog post.
St. Augustine and many other brilliant minds have said what I'm trying to say. So I feel foolish in my attempt. But I did say I would post this.
I hope, in my foolishness, that I can say something that will be of benefit to you.
My son was born premature and lived eleven days. My wife had one of the worst pregnancies. She had been in and out of the hospital in an effort to keep the baby. But it was not to be.
It was not really my faith in God that kept me going. I was in shock and and unable to comprehend all that had happened. Both of us were spiritually numb. We had no strength to blame or fight or be angry or anything. Finally, we took the urn with his ashes to the ocean and sprinkled them on the rocks.
The poem, “Footprints” is probably the best explanation I have for this time. When I look back, when I remember this time, it is like there is only one set of footprints. God was carrying me and my wife.
You have had times like this. You have experienced the cruelty of the world. There are as many stories like mine as there are people. Many have had far worse things happen: war, hurricanes, earthquakes, murder, cancer, every sort of suffering and loss. We all experience something we call ‘evil’. And we all experience the Love of God carrying us through those times; although many are not able to understand that it is God’s love that carries them. Many see only the EVIL. Many ask, “If God is a loving God, how can this happen? If God created the world and said it was Good, they why is there any Evil?”
Quick summary of my ideas:
1. God is the measure of Goodness.
2. God’s creation was Good. He did not create any Evil of any sort.
3. It’s all about Free Will and Obedience.
First, we need to understand the nature of God.
God is pure Goodness. God is true Love. God is Perfection. (See, for example, Deuteronomy 23:14, 1 Peter 1:16) There is a story found in Matthew 19, Mark 10 and Luke 18. It is the story commonly called “The Rich Young Ruler”. In this story a young man approaches Jesus and calls him “Good Teacher” to which Jesus responds, “Why do you call me good, only One is good and that is God.”
The young man is trying to flatter Jesus; yet Jesus makes a very profound statement, which gets lost in the rest of the story. “Only One is Good and that is God” is the definition of Good. God is not like a good divine being. Good is measured by God. God is never compared to Goodness to determine if He is Good. Other things are compared to God to see if they are Good.
If all of God’s works are “Good” then where does Satan come from?
Let’s go back to the beginning. We are told in Isaiah 14 the story of “Lucifer, Son of the Morning” or “Shining One, Son of the Dawn”, and in Ezekiel 28 we have a prophecy against the King of Tyre. Both of these prophecies are seen by many scholars as being about the archangel, Lucifer, whom we know as Satan. The Revelation to John, chapter 12, also provides some insight. Hebrew tradition fills in some detail.
What I understand about these scriptures is that, combined with other scripture and with Hebrew Tradition, we have the story of Lucifer, an archangel. So, as best as I can determine, this is where Satan originated:
We can deduce from the Biblical accounts that Lucifer originally was a ‘Good’ angel. I’ll restate that: when God created Lucifer, he was deemed by God to be ‘Good’. Apparently, Lucifer rebelled against God. He convinced a third of the angels to join his rebellion. And from the Biblical accounts, like what we find in Daniel and many other places, the fallen angels kept their abilities and powers that they had before they rebelled.
This is critically important. The rebelling angels, whom we call demons, kept their abilities and powers. There are plenty of examples in Scripture that indicate this, from the Temptation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 to the Temptation of Jesus in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 to the description of the world in the Revelation to John, demonic creatures have powers. St. Paul refers to this in several of his letters. The book of Acts has descriptions of demonic acts. We read of angels fighting demons in Daniel and Satan using his powers against Job (but only under God’s supervision).
Why does this matter? Because so many of us see the power of the demons and think of it as ‘evil power’ or ‘the power of evil’ when in fact, it is something quite different. It is, in fact, power that was originally Good being bent or manipulated into rebellion and disobedient purposes. It is critical that this is properly understood, so I’ll say it again: There is no such thing as ‘power created to be evil’ but instead, there is the power given to the angels. When some angels rebelled they now manipulate these powers for their disobedient and rebellious (that is, for their evil) purposes. I cannot say why God did not take back the powers He had given to the angels when they rebelled. But I am glad that He did not take back the powers He gave to humans when we rebelled, even though we do evil with them.
This is not ‘splitting hairs.’ There is a specific reason why I make this distinction: God is pure, perfect and loving. He cannot and would not create evil or evil power or evil beings. Specifically, God did not create Satan. Instead, Lucifer became Satan when he rebelled against God. The implication is that one of the powers or abilities that God gave to the angels is the gift of having a free will. But that discussion must wait until we consider a few other points.
The point is this: God does Love us and did not create evil. This gives me a reason to believe that I can trust God. Salvation is dependent on this. For, if God did create evil, then how can I trust Him? God, however, is Perfect, Loving and Good. I can Trust Him. I can believe Him. It is comforting to know that God can be trusted.
This Blog System won't let me post the entire blog...I have to post it in parts.
Please see Part Two.
St. Augustine and many other brilliant minds have said what I'm trying to say. So I feel foolish in my attempt. But I did say I would post this.
I hope, in my foolishness, that I can say something that will be of benefit to you.
My son was born premature and lived eleven days. My wife had one of the worst pregnancies. She had been in and out of the hospital in an effort to keep the baby. But it was not to be.
It was not really my faith in God that kept me going. I was in shock and and unable to comprehend all that had happened. Both of us were spiritually numb. We had no strength to blame or fight or be angry or anything. Finally, we took the urn with his ashes to the ocean and sprinkled them on the rocks.
The poem, “Footprints” is probably the best explanation I have for this time. When I look back, when I remember this time, it is like there is only one set of footprints. God was carrying me and my wife.
You have had times like this. You have experienced the cruelty of the world. There are as many stories like mine as there are people. Many have had far worse things happen: war, hurricanes, earthquakes, murder, cancer, every sort of suffering and loss. We all experience something we call ‘evil’. And we all experience the Love of God carrying us through those times; although many are not able to understand that it is God’s love that carries them. Many see only the EVIL. Many ask, “If God is a loving God, how can this happen? If God created the world and said it was Good, they why is there any Evil?”
Quick summary of my ideas:
1. God is the measure of Goodness.
2. God’s creation was Good. He did not create any Evil of any sort.
3. It’s all about Free Will and Obedience.
First, we need to understand the nature of God.
God is pure Goodness. God is true Love. God is Perfection. (See, for example, Deuteronomy 23:14, 1 Peter 1:16) There is a story found in Matthew 19, Mark 10 and Luke 18. It is the story commonly called “The Rich Young Ruler”. In this story a young man approaches Jesus and calls him “Good Teacher” to which Jesus responds, “Why do you call me good, only One is good and that is God.”
The young man is trying to flatter Jesus; yet Jesus makes a very profound statement, which gets lost in the rest of the story. “Only One is Good and that is God” is the definition of Good. God is not like a good divine being. Good is measured by God. God is never compared to Goodness to determine if He is Good. Other things are compared to God to see if they are Good.
If all of God’s works are “Good” then where does Satan come from?
Let’s go back to the beginning. We are told in Isaiah 14 the story of “Lucifer, Son of the Morning” or “Shining One, Son of the Dawn”, and in Ezekiel 28 we have a prophecy against the King of Tyre. Both of these prophecies are seen by many scholars as being about the archangel, Lucifer, whom we know as Satan. The Revelation to John, chapter 12, also provides some insight. Hebrew tradition fills in some detail.
What I understand about these scriptures is that, combined with other scripture and with Hebrew Tradition, we have the story of Lucifer, an archangel. So, as best as I can determine, this is where Satan originated:
We can deduce from the Biblical accounts that Lucifer originally was a ‘Good’ angel. I’ll restate that: when God created Lucifer, he was deemed by God to be ‘Good’. Apparently, Lucifer rebelled against God. He convinced a third of the angels to join his rebellion. And from the Biblical accounts, like what we find in Daniel and many other places, the fallen angels kept their abilities and powers that they had before they rebelled.
This is critically important. The rebelling angels, whom we call demons, kept their abilities and powers. There are plenty of examples in Scripture that indicate this, from the Temptation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 to the Temptation of Jesus in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 to the description of the world in the Revelation to John, demonic creatures have powers. St. Paul refers to this in several of his letters. The book of Acts has descriptions of demonic acts. We read of angels fighting demons in Daniel and Satan using his powers against Job (but only under God’s supervision).
Why does this matter? Because so many of us see the power of the demons and think of it as ‘evil power’ or ‘the power of evil’ when in fact, it is something quite different. It is, in fact, power that was originally Good being bent or manipulated into rebellion and disobedient purposes. It is critical that this is properly understood, so I’ll say it again: There is no such thing as ‘power created to be evil’ but instead, there is the power given to the angels. When some angels rebelled they now manipulate these powers for their disobedient and rebellious (that is, for their evil) purposes. I cannot say why God did not take back the powers He had given to the angels when they rebelled. But I am glad that He did not take back the powers He gave to humans when we rebelled, even though we do evil with them.
This is not ‘splitting hairs.’ There is a specific reason why I make this distinction: God is pure, perfect and loving. He cannot and would not create evil or evil power or evil beings. Specifically, God did not create Satan. Instead, Lucifer became Satan when he rebelled against God. The implication is that one of the powers or abilities that God gave to the angels is the gift of having a free will. But that discussion must wait until we consider a few other points.
The point is this: God does Love us and did not create evil. This gives me a reason to believe that I can trust God. Salvation is dependent on this. For, if God did create evil, then how can I trust Him? God, however, is Perfect, Loving and Good. I can Trust Him. I can believe Him. It is comforting to know that God can be trusted.
This Blog System won't let me post the entire blog...I have to post it in parts.
Please see Part Two.
