We continue with our reply to some comments made by one of our forum members (Blacklit) under our blog post entitled, “The Beginning, Part 1”.
Our friends second comment was:
“Not all Adventists are trinitarians in the traditional sense. The following sums up the non trinitarian beliefs of early Adventism, and of some of today's Adventists...
“God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, -a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, -- appeared the Word. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fulness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, "his [God's} only begotten Son" (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9), "the only begotten of the Father" (John 1:14), and, "I proceeded forth and came from God." John 8:42. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared.” (Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, Chapter 2, Christ as Creator, page 10, 1898)
In Reply: So according to this statement sometime in the infinite past the Logos just “poof”, “appeared” out of nowhere yet at the same time is stated to be uncreated, strange indeed. No wonder they use the term, “mysterious expressions” when speaking of his being a “begotten son” it appears they are trying very hard to avoid admitting he was a created being especially seeing as the word “begotten” Strong’s # 1080: gennaó: to beget, to bring forth means the same thing as “create” i.e., to cause to come into being, Strong’s # 2936: ktizó: to build, create; which applies only to God who alone can make what was "not there before".
Note the definition of a similar term.
Procreate: 1. to beget or generate (offspring). 2. to produce; bring into being.
The very word Pro-CREATE implies the ability to beget or create offspring, therefore begetting or generating offspring is the same as creating offspring, they are one in the same.
It was likewise stated: “His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe.”
This is true, but not in the way it is being insinuated here as something mysterious. His beginning (we do like the fact that they did at least admit he had a beginning) … His beginning was indeed unlike any other as he was the “ONLY begotten Son”, Strong’s # 3439: monogenés: only begotten the “one-and-only”, the alpha and the omega, the first and the last. “One of a kind”, the only DIRECT CREATION or “offspring” of God.
This is in contrast with the Church, the “new creation” who have likewise been “begotten of the Father”, but who were not initially (or directly) created by God, but rather by God working through his Son as were all other things which were made (John 1:3; Col 1:15, 16).
Our friends third comment was:
“The current fundamentals from the SDA church aren't shared by all Adventists... And they are different from what the church believed in the beginning. Hear Ellen White on what SDAs believed for the first 60 to 70 years
“A complete offering has been made; for "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,"-- not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father's person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection. In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” (Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, 30th May 1895, ‘Christ our complete salvation’)
She also wrote 6 weeks later (again in keeping with what was taught then by SDA’s)
“The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind." (Ellen G. White, Review & Herald 9th July 1895 ‘The Duty of the Minister and the People’)
In Reply:
Obviously, the so-called prophet uses a different bible than the rest of us as my bible (NKJV) clearly states that our Lord was begotten of the Father, created of the Father, but you need not take my word on it we have the direct word of the most reliable and true source there is none other than our Lord himself, viz.
“… ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of THE CREATION of God.” (Rev 3:14)
The Lord could have just as easily had stated, “the beginning of the begotten of God” for as we have seen begetting is the same as creating offspring.
Of course, we understand the true reason why the Lord inserted this remark here and chose the exact words he did was to show his opposition to the man-made dogma of the trinity which he knew would be widely held particularly by the last stage of the church.
“The Lord possessed me (the “Logos”, i.e., the Word [John 1:1]—wisdom personified) at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth. When there were no depths, I was brought forth, when there were no fountains abounding with water.” (Prov 8:22-24)
The word “possessed” used here is from Strong’s # 7069: qanah: to get, acquire; A primitive root; to erect, i.e., to create; by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); by implication to own -- attain, buy(-er), teach to keep cattle, get, provoke to jealousy, possess(-or), purchase, recover, redeem, X surely, X verily.
“I was brought forth” Strong’s # 2342: chuwl: bear: make to bring forth, make to calve, dance, drive away, fall grievously with pain
For those opposed to the idea that our Lord was a created being, made we suggest a closer look at the definition.
Made: make: 1. to bring into existence by shaping or changing material, combining parts, etc.: 2. to produce; cause to exist or happen; bring about:
Strong’s # 1096: ginomai: to come into being, to happen, to become
Thayer’s Lexicon :1. to become, I. e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born.
We will continue with our next post.
Our friends second comment was:
“Not all Adventists are trinitarians in the traditional sense. The following sums up the non trinitarian beliefs of early Adventism, and of some of today's Adventists...
“God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, -a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, -- appeared the Word. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fulness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, "his [God's} only begotten Son" (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9), "the only begotten of the Father" (John 1:14), and, "I proceeded forth and came from God." John 8:42. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared.” (Uriah Smith, Looking Unto Jesus, Chapter 2, Christ as Creator, page 10, 1898)
In Reply: So according to this statement sometime in the infinite past the Logos just “poof”, “appeared” out of nowhere yet at the same time is stated to be uncreated, strange indeed. No wonder they use the term, “mysterious expressions” when speaking of his being a “begotten son” it appears they are trying very hard to avoid admitting he was a created being especially seeing as the word “begotten” Strong’s # 1080: gennaó: to beget, to bring forth means the same thing as “create” i.e., to cause to come into being, Strong’s # 2936: ktizó: to build, create; which applies only to God who alone can make what was "not there before".
Note the definition of a similar term.
Procreate: 1. to beget or generate (offspring). 2. to produce; bring into being.
The very word Pro-CREATE implies the ability to beget or create offspring, therefore begetting or generating offspring is the same as creating offspring, they are one in the same.
It was likewise stated: “His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe.”
This is true, but not in the way it is being insinuated here as something mysterious. His beginning (we do like the fact that they did at least admit he had a beginning) … His beginning was indeed unlike any other as he was the “ONLY begotten Son”, Strong’s # 3439: monogenés: only begotten the “one-and-only”, the alpha and the omega, the first and the last. “One of a kind”, the only DIRECT CREATION or “offspring” of God.
This is in contrast with the Church, the “new creation” who have likewise been “begotten of the Father”, but who were not initially (or directly) created by God, but rather by God working through his Son as were all other things which were made (John 1:3; Col 1:15, 16).
Our friends third comment was:
“The current fundamentals from the SDA church aren't shared by all Adventists... And they are different from what the church believed in the beginning. Hear Ellen White on what SDAs believed for the first 60 to 70 years
“A complete offering has been made; for "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,"-- not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father's person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection. In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” (Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, 30th May 1895, ‘Christ our complete salvation’)
She also wrote 6 weeks later (again in keeping with what was taught then by SDA’s)
“The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind." (Ellen G. White, Review & Herald 9th July 1895 ‘The Duty of the Minister and the People’)
In Reply:
Obviously, the so-called prophet uses a different bible than the rest of us as my bible (NKJV) clearly states that our Lord was begotten of the Father, created of the Father, but you need not take my word on it we have the direct word of the most reliable and true source there is none other than our Lord himself, viz.
“… ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of THE CREATION of God.” (Rev 3:14)
The Lord could have just as easily had stated, “the beginning of the begotten of God” for as we have seen begetting is the same as creating offspring.
Of course, we understand the true reason why the Lord inserted this remark here and chose the exact words he did was to show his opposition to the man-made dogma of the trinity which he knew would be widely held particularly by the last stage of the church.
“The Lord possessed me (the “Logos”, i.e., the Word [John 1:1]—wisdom personified) at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth. When there were no depths, I was brought forth, when there were no fountains abounding with water.” (Prov 8:22-24)
The word “possessed” used here is from Strong’s # 7069: qanah: to get, acquire; A primitive root; to erect, i.e., to create; by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); by implication to own -- attain, buy(-er), teach to keep cattle, get, provoke to jealousy, possess(-or), purchase, recover, redeem, X surely, X verily.
“I was brought forth” Strong’s # 2342: chuwl: bear: make to bring forth, make to calve, dance, drive away, fall grievously with pain
For those opposed to the idea that our Lord was a created being, made we suggest a closer look at the definition.
Made: make: 1. to bring into existence by shaping or changing material, combining parts, etc.: 2. to produce; cause to exist or happen; bring about:
Strong’s # 1096: ginomai: to come into being, to happen, to become
Thayer’s Lexicon :1. to become, I. e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born.
We will continue with our next post.
