Calvin and the Great Satan

[robert derrick]

From all my reading, Calvin was a good Christian man and sincere in the ministry, but was led astray by doctrinally trying to explain why some believe, and some do not.

Doing so by doctrine was the open door to the devil. There is no Scriptural explanation for rejecting God, because God Himself in Scripture showed He did not know why His own people would do so, because there is no good reason for it.

Why will ye die and not live?

God gave man free will, and once the gift was given, it could not be taken back. People believe or don't believe by choice, whether unto righteousness of God for life everlasting, or unto sin and death fit for destruction:

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The IF means the choice to be made. Period. A WHEN has no choice.

Believing God and obeying God is a choice of man. Once we hear the truth, we have a decision to make: to believe and do it, or not:

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Calvin tried to take such necessary decision making by man, out of man's hands, so that he could try and reconcile himself to the fact that some would choose life, and some would choose death.

Fee will was given for the sake of choice, by which love in deed and in truth is made known.

And so Calvin turned God's foreknowledge of the soul by searching the heart, into a foreknowledge of a soul, before there was ever a heart to search into.

The end result being something Calvin never would have thought of in his worst nightmare: Decieved souls thinking to be saved without any decision, responsibility, nor accounting on their part, and yet still have part in the eternal salvation of Christ and the first resurrection of His church.

They are beguiled souls, deprived of their decision to believe God, and so they are robbed for their decision to obey Him.

They speak of the power of the blood to hide sins from sight of God's judgment, and no power to repent of sins that cannot be judged by God nor man:

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Being justified by God in His righteousness and blamelessness of holy living cannot be rightly charged by man.

God does not justify the sins of His people, so that no charge can be brought against sinners saved by grace.

The blame for OSAS is upon a good man's desire to explain doctrinally what cannot be explained nor understood by God Himself:

How man can go on still in their sins and trespasses, when the blood of the Lamb can free them from their sins and deliver them from the wages of sins, which is death.

The blame for them that believe OSAS is a Christian's desire to explain doctrinally what cannot be explained nor understood by God nor His saints:

How they can go on still in their sins and trespasses, and turn the cleansing blood of the Lamb into the covering blood of a bull or goat, and celebrate it by grace, free from righteous living and the wages of their sins, which is not death, but life.

 

[friend of]

What do you make of John 6:44?

 

[robert derrick]

The great lie of Calvin is pre-election before conception.

God does not foreknow any soul before being conceived in the flesh, because no soul is made, until the flesh is conceived:

Adam was not made a living soul, until after the body of flesh was prepared by God for Him to dwell in.

Until He breathed the breath of Life into that body, God did not know the living soul that He would produce from it: that is the nature of divinely given free will to man, which is not given to the beasts of the field.

The only foreknowledge of a soul that God has, and man does not, is to search and see the heart of that soul while yet in the womb.

Jacob was not chosen before conception, but was only declared to be chosen after the twins struggled in the womb.

Calvin's attempt to doctrinally explain why souls choose death over life, was done from a carnal mind that ignored the searching of the heart, by which God makes choice to save or not.

It was a carnal attempt to doctrinally explain a carnal decision by man to walk after the flesh, rather than after the Spirit.

The Spiritual explanation of Scripture for God's elect is simple: God searches the hearts to choose His own people, which He can do while yet in the womb as with Jacob, and while yet less in stature of a man, as with David:

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

The choosing of Jacob by searching the heart showed God is not bound by the firstborn from the womb, and the choosing of David by searching the heart showed God is not bound by the stature and appearance of the body:

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

God chose Jacob while in the womb, not before, and God chose David while he was of little stature, not after.

 

[friend of]

Then what do you make of Jeremiah 1:5?

 

[robert derrick]

What do you make of John 6:44?

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Exactly what it says: Coming to God is a decision we must make, when hearing His Word and being drawn of His Spirit.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

The lie of pre-elected before concepted is self evident contradiction of Scripture.

It is just as plainly contradictive as a created christ in the face of the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God draws all men unto Himself, and the only ones He ceases to draw are them that have known and rejected Him:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Calvin's pre-elect souls is the great Satan of all lies, because it makes the wisdom of choosing Jesus as Christ, into the great foolishness of learning not to be responsible nor accountable in it.

It turns would be saints into continued willful sinners, calling upon His grace while rejecting His help in righteous, holy, and blameless living:
they think to love Him while rejecting His righteous judgment, that will by no means acquit their sins:

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

People choosing to believe and serve the Lord Jesus as God and Saviour have become single-eyed on the cross, but then people learn to do away with any choice in the matter of sins.

The Light of Christ's blood is turned into devilish darkness indeed: they turn the blood of the Lamb, that washes away all sins and unrighteousness, into the blood of a goat that only covers it, so that god can't judge them.

Calvin's pre-election before the womb is carnal man's wisdom of pseudo scholarship wrested from Scripture. It has made some Christians into the biggest of fools and laughingstock of the world:

"Yeah, I know I'm sinning just like you, but by the grace of Jesus, I'm not going to hell for it like you. The blood has me covered, and I've got His salvation in the bag."

No normal fool believes that.

I know I didn't as a sinner, and I would have nothing to do with such hypocrisy.

 

[friend of]

Okay, now do Jeremiah 1:5

Because it sounds to me like you're speaking against God's omniscience.

 

[robert derrick]

Okay, now do Jeremiah 1:5

Because it sounds to me like you're speaking against God's omniscience.

Ok, as in you agree.

I have answered one of your questions. Before I answer this one, I have two questions:

Are you saying souls were known personally in will and heart, before ever being formed in the belly of a woman?

Are you saying souls therefore pre-existed and so were pre-elected before conception?

 

[friend of]

Are you saying souls were known personally in will and heart, before ever being formed in the belly of a woman?

If we go by what Jer 1:5 says:

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations

Then yes. It is in keeping with God's omniscience that He should know all about us before even our conception in the womb.

Are you saying souls therefore pre-existed and so were pre-elected before conception?

In the mind of God, yes, I believe so.

 

[Episkopos]

Calvin only explains one side of the coin...those who God elects to be a saint. This does NOT explain what the normal Christian experience is. God has WAYS...plural. There is the way that is in Christ and there is the way of righteousness. There are the righteous and there are the saints. There is the universal calling to repentance and there is the high calling of God in Christ. To deny this is to teach error. Grievous error. Many are called but few are chosen. Most Christians today have zero idea of what that means...because of the Reformation errors being adopted as truth. If you hear an error long enough you will become indoctrinated into that error.

Calvin used something good that God does among the few to teach evil among the many. He had people burned at the stake...just like his pal Luther..for disagreeing with his dogmatic conclusions. Surely these men were not of God but of themselves looking to feel justified in the flesh...especially Luther.

The Reformation actually has ushered in the Great Apostasy where people want so badly to be among the elect that they will become dishonest and make false claims...thereby making them worse than before.

So we must see both the goodness AND severity of God. We have been warned that God has both a way that is acceptable as well as pleasing to Him. We need to be merciful with others...as long as they are not leading people astray with their indoctrinated stance. If we take one of God's ways with men away we teach error and are in need to be instructed back onto the path that leads to life. Those who teach error will be dealt harshly by the Lord on Judgment Day. The souls of those whom they led astray will be required of them. Let not many be teachers.

Halleluyah for God's great ways. :) <><

 

[robert derrick]

If we go by what Jer 1:5 says:

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations

Then yes. It is in keeping with God's omniscience that He should know all about us before even our conception in the womb.



In the mind of God, yes, I believe so.

Ok. Thanks for the plain answer. I know you are honest. I will continue to question you on your faith honestly.

However, believing so isn't doctrine of God. There must be two or three Scriptures to prove the doctrine. So far, you have only one part of one Scripture that appears to say something in your direction.

1. Adam did not become a living soul, until after his body was formed of the earth.

How does God know the heart and will of a soul that He has yet to make?

God seeing beforehand the heart and the will that He wants, and putting such in a soul, is that of Christ upon salvation.

God does not put the heart and will of man in his soul, but only makes the soul to be in conceived flesh, and then He sees the heart therein and can sanctify from the womb.

2. If God already knows everything about all souls, their will and their hearts and minds, why then must He search the hearts to know anything about the thoughts and intents of the hearts?

For the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts

And all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

The word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Why does God need to discern something He already knows?

3. Why did He test Abraham so that He would know for certain Abraham loved Him with all the heart?

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.


If, you have Scriptural sound answers for these questions, then I will of course believe your doctrine.

Thanks. I'll go on to give my reading of Jerem 1:5.

 

[robert derrick]

Calvin only explains one side of the coin...those who God elects to be a saint. This does NOT explain what the normal Christian experience is. God has WAYS...plural. There is the way that is in Christ and there is the way of righteousness. There are the righteous and there are the saints. There is the universal calling to repentance and there is the high calling of God in Christ. To deny this is to teach error. Grievous error. Many are called but few are chosen. Most Christians today have zero idea of what that means...because of the Reformation errors being adopted as truth. If you hear an error long enough you will become indoctrinated into that error.

Calvin used something good that God does among the few to teach evil among the many. He had people burned at the stake...just like his pal Luther..for disagreeing with his dogmatic conclusions. Surely these men were not of God but of themselves looking to feel justified in the flesh...especially Luther.

The Reformation actually has ushered in the Great Apostasy where people want so badly to be among the elect that they will become dishonest and make false claims...thereby making them worse than before.

So we must see both the goodness AND severity of God. We have been warned that God has both a way that is acceptable as well as pleasing to Him. We need to be merciful with others...as long as they are not leading people astray with their indoctrinated stance. If we take one of God's ways with men away we teach error and are in need to be instructed back onto the path that leads to life. Those who teach error will be dealt harshly by the Lord on Judgment Day. The souls of those whom they led astray will be required of them. Let not many be teachers.

Halleluyah for God's great ways. :) <><

There is no acceptable 'verses' perfect and good will of God: God's will is one that is good, acceptable, and perfect.

You're making difference between 'normal' Christians and elect saints.

Whenever we use qualifying words for things of God, that Scripture does not speak of, we are trying to force a false teaching into something true.

There are no 'normal' Christians, just Christians, and all Christians are called to be saints: to live holy, righteously, and blamelessly in Christ in this present world.

The only difference among Christians are them answering that high calling to be saints, and them not answering it, but are double minded in the faith, continuing in sins of the flesh while trying to serve God in the mind.

Calvin set up many Christians for utter failure, by leading them to conclude double mindedness is the norm for Christians in the flesh, and so never repent and purify their hearts and cleanse their hands to answer the high calling of God in Christ Jesus to be saints.

 

[robert derrick]

If we go by what Jer 1:5 says:

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations

Then yes. It is in keeping with God's omniscience that He should know all about us before even our conception in the womb.



In the mind of God, yes, I believe so.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

1. There is only one soul God knew Personally in the heart, mind, and will, before that soul ever was in the womb of a woman: Jesus Christ.
2. God made the first soul Adam, the same as all souls: After the body conceived in the womb, and for His good pleasure.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

3. God did not know Abraham's whole hearted fear and love for God, until after He tested him to see for Himself.
4. God must search the hearts and the reigns to know the mind and heart and will of a soul; otherwise, God would not need search the heart and the reigns to know what He already perfectly knew before conception.
5. If God already knew the heart and mind of Jeremiah before conception, then why wait to sanctify him only after conception, which was when he would have searched his heart to do so. But then, as asked above, why search into what one already perfectly knows?

Based on these point, God did not know the heart and will of the soul to be called Jeremiah, but God did know there would come such a soul as him at such a time as that, to be fit for God's service from the womb, and so God saw that in him when he searched Jeremiah's heart after conception, and thus sanctified him in the womb, and then ordained him at certain age to prophecy His Word.

God knew a soul worthy to be sanctified and ordained in prophecy would come, and God found that soul when He searched his heart int he womb. Not until He searched the heart of that soul, while yet int he womb, did God know that was the soul for Him to sanctify and ordain as prophet in the land.

At such a time as that, God was looking for a man such as Jeremiah. When God looked for another such man at another such time, He did not find one like Jeremiah:

And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

And so, it is concluded that God cannot see and know certainly the heart and mind of a soul before conception, much less Personally prepare such a soul for specific service; otherwise, He would have done so when He searched for such an one and did not find any.

And if He already knew there would not be such a soul, then why search for one? Because He could not see and know before conception, what He could only search into after conception and find what he was looking for.

All souls are made the same after conception: for the pleasure of God, and God has sworn Himself not to make any one soul any different from another, that free will may be power to choose to believe and obey Him, which is the only power that would love Him freely.

God could have a specially prepared soul enter into the womb of a woman, and He did Himself in His Son Jesus Christ, but only one such soul was ever with God and was God.

All other souls come into this world the same way with the same choice to make in this life, including Adam, who started off with every benefit, and still failed miserably by his own choice of transgression against God.

 

[Episkopos]

There is no acceptable 'verses' perfect and good will of God: God's will is one that is good, acceptable, and perfect.

You're making difference between 'normal' Christians and elect saints.

Whenever we use qualifying words for things of God, that Scripture does not speak of, we are trying to force a false teaching into something true.

There are no 'normal' Christians, just Christians, and all Christians are called to be saints: to live holy, righteously, and blamelessly in Christ in this present world.

The only difference among Christians are them answering that high calling to be saints, and them not answering it, but are double minded in the faith, continuing in sins of the flesh while trying to serve God in the mind.

Calvin set up many Christians for utter failure, by leading them to conclude double mindedness is the norm for Christians in the flesh, and so never repent and purify their hearts and cleanse their hands to answer the high calling of God in Christ Jesus to be saints.

Actually not so much...

You have to read the biblical text for what is written not what you have learned by various doctrinal deviations.

Notice this statement from Peter.
Acts 10:35 "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Acceptable is not the same as pleasing. Notice the verse has nothing to do with the 4 quantum leaps to Jesus or accepting a certain religious theory. It has to do with a humble ATTITUDE.

No matter what we do we are to strive to be at least ACCEPTABLE to God. How? By maintaining the fear of the Lord, humility and a proper attitude towards God and men.

Jesus was "well-pleasing" to the Father. But the minimum standard for righteousness with God is to fear Him and work righteousness. Now you will not agree with the bible because you don't realize that you have been indoctrinated to ignore the bible where your learning deviates from the plain biblical text.

"The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable:
but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness." (Prov. 10:32)

 

[Rudometkin]

There must be two or three Scriptures to prove the doctrine.

That doctrine in itself is self refuting unless you have two or three Scriptures to prove it.

 

[Rudometkin]

If, you have Scriptural sound answers for these questions, then I will of course believe your doctrine.

You will abandon what you are teaching if you just find Scripturally sound answers for those questions?

This tells me you admit you do not even have Scripturally sound doctrine to begin with.

But if you do not have Scripturally sound doctrine to begin with, then why are you teaching?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

the 4 quantum leaps to Jesus

I’d like to hear about this.
I’m coming up with something in my mind…I’m thinking…
Trust
Growing trust
The same trust Jesus had
Moving mountains?

 

[michaelvpardo]

From all my reading, Calvin was a good Christian man and sincere in the ministry, but was led astray by doctrinally trying to explain why some believe, and some do not.

Doing so by doctrine was the open door to the devil. There is no Scriptural explanation for rejecting God, because God Himself in Scripture showed He did not know why His own people would do so, because there is no good reason for it.

Why will ye die and not live?

God gave man free will, and once the gift was given, it could not be taken back. People believe or don't believe by choice, whether unto righteousness of God for life everlasting, or unto sin and death fit for destruction:

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The IF means the choice to be made. Period. A WHEN has no choice.

Believing God and obeying God is a choice of man. Once we hear the truth, we have a decision to make: to believe and do it, or not:

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Calvin tried to take such necessary decision making by man, out of man's hands, so that he could try and reconcile himself to the fact that some would choose life, and some would choose death.

Fee will was given for the sake of choice, by which love in deed and in truth is made known.

And so Calvin turned God's foreknowledge of the soul by searching the heart, into a foreknowledge of a soul, before there was ever a heart to search into.

The end result being something Calvin never would have thought of in his worst nightmare: Decieved souls thinking to be saved without any decision, responsibility, nor accounting on their part, and yet still have part in the eternal salvation of Christ and the first resurrection of His church.

They are beguiled souls, deprived of their decision to believe God, and so they are robbed for their decision to obey Him.

They speak of the power of the blood to hide sins from sight of God's judgment, and no power to repent of sins that cannot be judged by God nor man:

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Being justified by God in His righteousness and blamelessness of holy living cannot be rightly charged by man.

God does not justify the sins of His people, so that no charge can be brought against sinners saved by grace.

The blame for OSAS is upon a good man's desire to explain doctrinally what cannot be explained nor understood by God Himself:

How man can go on still in their sins and trespasses, when the blood of the Lamb can free them from their sins and deliver them from the wages of sins, which is death.

The blame for them that believe OSAS is a Christian's desire to explain doctrinally what cannot be explained nor understood by God nor His saints:

How they can go on still in their sins and trespasses, and turn the cleansing blood of the Lamb into the covering blood of a bull or goat, and celebrate it by grace, free from righteous living and the wages of their sins, which is not death, but life.

You also disagree with Martin Luther who introduced the very reasoned and biblical concept he called "bondage of the will". "Free will" is a consequence of deliverance from bondage. Those who remain under the dominion of sin, victims of our fallen nature, may have choice but are inclined to rebellion against God by their carnal nature. Calvin didn't create this doctrine, the Apostle Paul did, and Jesus Himself taught the basis of it, identifying men as evil by nature and "slaves" of sin.
While Jesus warned the Jews of the consequences of evil choices, He also declared the impossibility of men fulfilling God's requirements for "salvation."

24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:24-26

You should understand that rejecting His word is effectively rejecting Him.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You will abandon what you are teaching if you just find Scripturally sound answers for those questions?

This tells me you admit you do not even have Scripturally sound doctrine to begin with.

But if you do not have Scripturally sound doctrine to begin with, then why are you teaching?

The Pharisees were given sound biblical explanation to their objections, yet still rejected the voice of God through the word made flesh. Even from the first century AD, carnal minded men have rejected the notion that salvation is of God alone, and have built false doctrines to diminish His glory and promote their own vanity.
Jesus is the stone rejected by the builders, the rock of offense to the self righteous, and the world always stumbles at the cross (it is foolishness to them.) Religion is damning when it leaves people confident in themselves.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Calvin only explains one side of the coin...those who God elects to be a saint. This does NOT explain what the normal Christian experience is. God has WAYS...plural. There is the way that is in Christ and there is the way of righteousness. There are the righteous and there are the saints. There is the universal calling to repentance and there is the high calling of God in Christ. To deny this is to teach error. Grievous error. Many are called but few are chosen. Most Christians today have zero idea of what that means...because of the Reformation errors being adopted as truth. If you hear an error long enough you will become indoctrinated into that error.

Calvin used something good that God does among the few to teach evil among the many. He had people burned at the stake...just like his pal Luther..for disagreeing with his dogmatic conclusions. Surely these men were not of God but of themselves looking to feel justified in the flesh...especially Luther.

The Reformation actually has ushered in the Great Apostasy where people want so badly to be among the elect that they will become dishonest and make false claims...thereby making them worse than before.

So we must see both the goodness AND severity of God. We have been warned that God has both a way that is acceptable as well as pleasing to Him. We need to be merciful with others...as long as they are not leading people astray with their indoctrinated stance. If we take one of God's ways with men away we teach error and are in need to be instructed back onto the path that leads to life. Those who teach error will be dealt harshly by the Lord on Judgment Day. The souls of those whom they led astray will be required of them. Let not many be teachers.

Halleluyah for God's great ways. :) <><

If you're not a Saint, you might be a disciple, but the Epistles were written to the saints and not to you.
Salvation is of God alone, not distributed by men through sacramental works.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If you're not a Saint, you might be a disciple, but the Epistles were written to the saints and not to you.
Salvation is of God alone, not distributed by men through sacramental works.

Aw cmon. You are yet carnal wasn’t written to holy men.