The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Truth7t7]

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19 :: King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 19:15 Interlinear: and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and he doth tread the press of the wine of the wrath and the anger of God the Almighty,


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


View attachment 22448

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[covenantee]

The Sword and the smiting and the treading the winepress of wrath are happening at the Armageddon second coming. The RULE over the nations with a rod of iron is NOT HAPPENING at Armageddon.

Rule:

G4165
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901



The rule is a peaceful rule where Christ and his saints take care of the nations like a Shepherd takes care of his flock. Obviously that isn't happening at the violent battle of Armageddon. Anyone that tells you Christ is using a rod of iron at Armageddon to kill the nations does not understand the bible. Ignore them.

Scriptural insight is inversely proportional to font size.

 

[ewq1938]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth

I have already proven there will be. Your copy and paste posts are just noise. You willfully ignore the future tense verb for RULE in Revelation 19. That's your choice to do so but it's a bad choice.

 

[Truth7t7]

I have already proven there will be. Your copy and paste posts are just noise. You willfully ignore the future tense verb for RULE in Revelation 19. That's your choice to do so but it's a bad choice.

You have proved nothing, you "willfully ignore" the Lords fire in final judgement at his return (The End)

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[ewq1938]

You have proved nothing

But I have. I'm showing how broken and impossible Amillennialism is, using scripture to expose it's flaws. This doctrine was created by the RCC, the creator of so many heresies.

The Rapture

"What’s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue."

 

[Truth7t7]

But I have. I'm showing how broken and impossible Amillennialism is, using scripture to expose it's flaws. This doctrine was created by the RCC, the creator of so many heresies.

The Rapture

"What’s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue."

I have nothing to do with the RCC, you have been clearly shown through scripture, when Jesus Christ returns its "Fire Time" (The End)

You can claim a Millennium Kingdom on this earth all you want, it's found no place in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

 

[ewq1938]

I have nothing to do with the RCC

Except you promote their doctrine.

 

[Zao is life]

22. Jesus returns at the 5th trump or the 7th trump, or both?

Amillennialism sometimes teaches that Jesus is the angel descending from Heaven to the Earth to open the pit in the 5th trump. They also claim that is the same event of the 7th trump which they place in Revelation 20:9. They claim Revelation 9:1 is the same exact event as Revelation 20:1 yet Revelation 9:1 is the 5th trump and Revelation 20:9 is the 7th trump (according to Amillennialism). How can the same exact event be in two different trumps especially when the 6th trump between them is the Great Tribulation?

Does Jesus descend from heaven to open the pit in the 5th trump or the 7th trump?
Does Jesus descend from heaven to open the pit before the tribulation/6th trump or after it has ended?
Is Revelation 9:1 truly the same event as found in Revelation 20:1?
Why are they in different trumps?

The truth is the angel is not Jesus in either passage. The angel opens the pit in the 5th trump and returns to lock satan in the pit in Revelation 20 after the second coming has been completed.

Also why is the 5th trumpet the first "woe" but the 7th trumpet the 3rd "woe", if what Amillennialism claims regarding Revelation 9:1 and Revelation 20:1 is true?

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus ruling with a rod of iron, is the Lords destruction of the wicked at his return, as a Potter uses the rod of Iron to destroy his clay vessels Revelation 2:27

There won't be a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man, found no place in scripture

copy @ewq1938 for info

@ewq1938 Sorry. I see now you already posted the same thing.

The word is poimaínō: to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser):--feed (cattle), rule.

Revelation 2:27 And he will rule [poimaínō] them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.

Revelation 12:5 And she bore a son, a male, who is going to rule [poimaínō] all nations with a rod of iron. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will rule [poimaínō] them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.

It speaks of someone who breaks the rebellion of people, and then shepherds them with a rod of iron (i.e takes no nonsense), and it fulfills God's promise to Him, and God's purpose for the Son of man:

Psalm 2
7 I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Genesis 1:26
"And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness.
And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle,
and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.”

Psalm 8:3-9
"When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established;
what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?
For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned him with glory and honor.
You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:
all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field;
the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas.
O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!"

Psalm 2:7-8
“I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.”

Psalm 110
1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand until I place Your enemies as Your footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion; rule in the midst of Your enemies.
3 Your people shall be willing in the day of Your power, in holy adornment from the womb of the morning: You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The LORD has sworn, and will not repent, You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at Your right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations, He shall fill them with dead bodies; He shall shatter heads over much of the earth.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way; therefore He shall lift up the head.

Revelation 19
17 And I saw one angel standing in the sun. And he cried with a great voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come and gather together to the supper of the great God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses, and those sitting on them, and the flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies, being gathered to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His army.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will rule [poimaínō] them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.

It speaks of someone who breaks the rebellion of people, and then shepherds them with a rod of iron (i.e takes no nonsense), and it fulfills God's promise to Him, and God's purpose for the Son of man.

 

[Zao is life]

I have nothing to do with the RCC, you have been clearly shown through scripture, when Jesus Christ returns its "Fire Time" (The End)

You can claim a Millennium Kingdom on this earth all you want, it's found no place in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

The word is stoicheîon. The stoicheîon will be burned up. The works of man will be burned up:

But now, knowing God, but rather are known by God, how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements [stoicheîon] to which you desire to slave anew? Galatians 4:9

στοιχεῖον stoicheîon, stoy-khi'-on
something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):--element, principle, rudiment.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements [stoicheîon] will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10

 

[Zao is life]

Unless the Millennium is a totally different dispensation altogether, then it is pointless to even have a Millennium. Of course people try to define this period of time. Amil could call it the A-dispensation, that cannot exist, because Revelation 20 is just the same time loop mentioned in Revelation several times. Amil invent this recapitulation of time.

Even in Augustine's day that was the argument that there cannot be another dispensation after the one they actually lived in.

I was never taught any pre-mil view as you describe. I can never even remember needing such pre-mil error as the Jews needing the Millennium to fulfill prophecy. Especially outside of Christ. Did I think that every Israelite ever born lost or redeemed would only be resurrected at a Second Coming? It is possible that I did. But that would put me still at odds with classical pre-mill dispensational thought, as they also included redeemed Gentiles. Now the argument turns to replacement theology. Israel became the church, and stopped being genetic. Now the dispensation went from Israel remaining Israel and set aside, to now the church, and Gentiles are just the lost sheep of Israel and still Israel. Still a form of dispensational thought even though historist and amil deny such a dispensational divide. This still leaves us with only Israel was redeemed and another group outside of the Gentiles as those never redeemed at all. Yet still Israel rejects the Messiah and are not forced out, because they can still choose on their own volition, they just remain in a rejective state of their choosing, not God's.

That sounds great, and the national political Jew can still seek a Jewish state, but the lost are still the lost sheep of Israel and not the other nationalities of the earth. If that were true, then if a person admits redemption, they have to make the whole earth the lost sheep of Israel and no other ethnicity exist separate to Israel as the idealist justify their gospel. Yet even among Israel, Jesus in Matthew 25 now points out there are goats in with the lost sheep of Israel at the end. The metric is not nationality. The metric is one's attitude:

"Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Certainly these are all of Israel ideally or genetically, but not all of Israel are Israel. The idealist cannot deny their spiritual nor ambiguous definition of Israel. Now they have to admit these are not even spiritually redeemed humans at all. The Atonement is based on what God did on the Cross, not what humans do or not do. Are we now going to say the goats were not ideally nor genetically ambiguous, but outside of Israel totally? Yet these sheep are as well, "outside of Israel" as the metric for these particular sheep is not the Atonement (Israel) but works or one's attitude. So what are the actual words:

"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Israel is not even named. Jesus is not separating the righteous from the unrighteous. Jesus is sitting and judging all nations and separating them as a shepherd divides. Jesus is claiming sheep who never were sheep prior to this point. Am I being hypocritical in stating that now, after the church has been removed Jesus is calling Israel out of the nations? Or is Israel being called out of the nations and then separated into sheep and goats? Are there many humans still left on earth not nationally Israel that will be separated at a later time? And this is just the living, not all the dead of Israel resurrected from all time since Jacob. Is Jesus not sitting on His throne in His Temple in Jerusalem on earth? The one that after this final harvest, Satan will be allowed to sit on and desolate? The one that will be the camp of the saints for 1,000 years?

I am not denying dispensations nor arguing for them. I am saying those who make the loudest arguments against are still defining dispensations, because it is impossible not to.

Israel = the remnant of Ephraim and Judah who believe in Jesus. Ephraim = the fullness of the Gentiles:

Genesis 48
17 When Joseph saw that his father placed his right hand on Ephraim's head, it displeased him. So he took his father's hand to move it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head.
18 Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this is the firstborn. Put your right hand on his head."
19 But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He too will become a nation and he too will become great. In spite of this, his younger brother will be even greater and his descendants will become the fullness of the Gentiles (Hebrew m'lo goy, translated into English Bibles as a multitude of nations)."

The "ten lost tribes of the house of Israel" is a.k.a "Ephraim" in prophetic scripture, which is a.k.a "the house of Israel" (the Jews are the house of Judah), and in Christ there is neither one nor the other.

 

[Zao is life]

No, actually Paul was not teaching that idea that the seed sown is what is raised immortal. He actually said just the opposite, didn't you read...

1 Cor 15:37
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
KJV

The analogy of agricultural seed sown does not completely fit the idea of the "spiritual body" being what is raised. When speaking of material seed, when it germinates, the original seed that was sown dies, but from within that dying seed springs new life, and thus a new seed that is not that old seed.

The part that Paul was using from that sowing seed analogy is how something WITHIN the original sown dying seed, is what is raised immortal, not the sown seed. That's actually how he was using the plant seed analogy. Per that, our flesh body is represented by the seed sown, and our "spiritual body" is represented by the new seed that springs out from within the dying seed. And what is that which dwells 'within' our flesh body?

It is our spirit with soul. Our spirit is actually the "spiritual body", the "image of the heavenly" that Paul was pointing to. Our soul part is our individual person.

In 2 Corinthians 5, that other body from God, not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens, is about our spiritual body that dwells within our flesh body. It merely steps out our flesh at flesh death, with our soul (our actual person). Thus The New Testament teaches that our spirit with soul can... be separated from our flesh, but our spirit with soul are always together, even in the heavenly.

Well firstly, I do not believe that Adam was created spiritually dead. He was created with a body and soul and when the Spirit of God breathed (eternal) life into him, he became a living soul.

Secondly I do not believe that God ever intended for Adam's soul and body to become separated in death, which is one of the reasons why Christ died for us, to undo the power that Satan had over death. He, the last Adam, defeated death by dying for us and rising again from the dead.

I actually find your statement and belief expressed in your post above to be gnostic in nature. I've heard some who believe in reincarnation, finding all sorts of scriptures in the Bible that "talk about reincarnation", and I've heard them say that Jesus was an ordinary human who had reincarnated successive times until He had become nearly perfect, and the last act He needed to do in order to perfect Himself was to die for the sins of mankind.

Proof that we can find whatever we want to in the Bible. And to me your statements in your post above are gnostic in nature, not Biblical, not adhering to what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 about the resurrection of the body, and not within the bounds of Christianity.

Nevertheless it's your opinion, and you are entitled to your opinions. I just don't agree with it. At all.

 

[Earburner]

"No" Jesus Christ Isn't The "He" In Daniel 9:27 Below As You Suggest, He Doesn't Make Abomination Or Desolation

Daniel's (Little Horn)

This "Future" figure will be present on earth to see the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ and (Final Judgement), as this figure will be slain by Jesus Christ and cast into the lake of fire (Future) unfulfilled

"Future" (Second Coming, Final Judgement) Below

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Thank you for referencing the KJV. By no "slanted" Bible version, will anyone perceive the truth of what is implied, concerning Daniel 9:24-27 about which "he" God is meaning.
Jesus Himself gave us the clue:
John.5[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Yes! For understanding, the entirety of the 70 weeks does hinge on the word "he" in verse 27. In fact, right out of gate with Daniel 9:27, your whole line of speculations began, right down to, and through the book of Revelation.

Because God the Father intended to keep the manifestation of His Son shrouded in a mystery, until the day of His first appearance, His meanings, through the use of OUR languages, is how He was able to keep it hidden. Isaiah 55:8-9.
The only way the Messiah can be revealed to us, is "by my Spirit". Zechariah 4:6, Matthew 11:27.
"Might"- sheer human will, and "power"- religious persuasion, will never deliver His truth to us.

Therefore, we must strictly live by His instruction in John 16:13, and learn how to be "free indeed" from the corruption, that is applied and taught through the "wisdom of men".
1Cor.2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [Spirit] of God.
2 Timothy 3[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power [Spirit] thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Zao is life]

I have already proven there will be. Your copy and paste posts are just noise. You willfully ignore the future tense verb for RULE in Revelation 19. That's your choice to do so but it's a bad choice.

I've realized that people will believe what they want the scriptures to be saying. For me with regard to the thousand years, I was once Premil, then not sure (but also not Amil), so in my mind I placed myself in an agnosmillennialist camp, inventing a new category of eschatology all for myself, until enough study could tell me which it was.

But the New Testament does not apply the word anastasis found in Revelation 20:5-6 to anything except the bodily resurrection anywhere, and I had to actually read each and every New Testament verse containing all the words that relate to the resurrection and to the quickening of the Spirit, and check the meaning of the Greek words in each verse, just to make sure. But I did it. Just to make sure. I also checked for any New Testament verses which even imply that Satan was bound at Calvary in his ability to deceive the nations (the only thing Revelation 20 relates his binding to), and I found only scriptures which state the opposite.

In the process I also noticed that the only two passages in the Revelation that speak about the worship of the beast and its/his image or receiving its/his mark, or being killed for refusal to do so, are Revelation 13:14-18, and 20:4.

In the process I also noticed that someone having been beheaded is also only mentioned twice in the New Testament, and the assumption that someone having been beheaded but living again afterward = they rose from the dead, is contained in both passages:

1. Mark 6:16
"But hearing Herod said, It is John, whom I beheaded. He has risen from the dead!"

2. "And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4).

So I asked, when Jesus gave us His Revelation, would He have known that it would be natural that the reader of the Revelation would also associate beheading with physical death, and living and reigning with Christ following their having been beheaded, with resurrection from death?

This is the first resurrection (anastasis). Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection (anastasis). The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. And when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be loosed out of his prison. (Revelation 20:5-7).

That word anastasis is confirmation that it's talking about a bodily resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection, because it's not employed anywhere else in the New Testament except in verses talking about (THE) bodily resurrection.

I still don't know exactly what the millennium will look like. To me (to me) prophecy regarding the millennium is vague, because it's packed with metaphor and symbolic representations of things, for example:

Isaiah 60
1 Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD has risen on you.

5 Then you shall fear and become bright, and your heart shall throb and swell for joy; because the abundance of the sea shall turn to you, the wealth of the nations will come to you.

11 Therefore your gates will always be open; they will not be shut day nor night, to bring to you the wealth of the nations, and their kings may be led.

20 Your sun will no more go down, nor your moon withdraw; for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and the days of your mourning will be ended.

Revelation 21:22-24
"And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty is its temple, even the Lamb. And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb. And the nations of those who are saved will walk in the light of it; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.

But we don't have to understand or know everything. We just have to believe what the Bible says, not what we want it to be saying, and understand this principle:

AN ADVERSARY IN A KING'S KINGDOM

It's only logical that if a king has an adversary in his kingdom who is causing disruption, killing or harming the king's subjects, deceiving as many as he can, continuously encouraging dissent against the king and continuously calling the king's authority and integrity into question, then if the king wants to put a stop to it, he would need to either bind the adversary and lock him in a dungeon, rendering the adversary completely unable to cause more harm, or simply destroy the adversary,

but if the king in his wisdom and sovereign will continues to permit the adversary for a season and a time to continue, whether it be in order to separate the king's loyal and faithful subjects from his adversaries or for any other reason, then this choice and decision is within the king's sovereign right. (Isaiah 55:8-11)

 

[Zao is life]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Metaphor, simile and hyperbole in Apocalyptic literature:

Simile: As rust is to iron, so is idleness to the soul.
Metaphor: Idleness is the rust of the soul.
Hyperbole: "You've told me that a million times."
Simile: Genesis 15:5; Genesis 22:17
Metaphor: Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1

Whereas truth is light,
(John 14:6).

the sun and the moon,
our rulers of might
(Genesis 1:16; Psalm 89:35-37 Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1).

When summer is at is height
and the sun is shining bright,
it's reflection in the moon
comes into sight,
and wise and faithful saints
like the stars, are shining as is right
(Genesis 22:17; Daniel 12:3).

Being "in the heavens",
they shine in the earth
(Colossians 3:1-4; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6),
and as "the abundance of the sea",
blessing upon blessing do they birth
(Isaiah 60:5).

"From heaven" for righteousness and truth,
"the stars in their courses fight"
(Judges 4:6-7; Judges 5:18-20),

and the blood of Christ is their might
(Revelation 12:11).

But when calamity comes,
and the stars fall from the heavens
(Daniel 8:9-10; Revelation 6:12-13),

False prophets and false teachers abound,
rivers and fountains of water are made bitter.
Their teaching is not sound.
(John 7:37-39; Revelation 8:10-12; Revelation 16:4-7)

and when the sun becomes darkened,
and the moon too, loses her might,
she reflects not the sun's light.

When the moon turns the color of blood
and the sun is hiding its face,
(Matthew 24:29),
and the social and political order is being removed,
then "the earth is being moved out of its place,
and the heavens and earth are shaking"
(Isaiah 13:9-13; Revelation 6:12-17).

and the kingdom of wickedness is being defeated.
(Revelation 19:11-21)

The Lord Jesus Christ remains Victorious,
on the throne of God He is seated
(Revelation 21:1-22:21).
​

Some of the scriptures you quote in your post above referred to the destruction of ancient Babylon, and you're mixing them up with New Testament prophecy, in which the New Testament remains 100% consistent with the use of the same metaphor, hyperbole, simile and symbolism employed in the Old Testament when describing God's judgment coming for example upon Babylon or upon Jerusalem.

So as your post above shows, you've conflated lots of things, maybe because of your lack of knowledge and understanding of the Bible's Apocalyptic literature. It seems as though you are completely incapable of distinguishing between the literal and the metaphorical in scripture. If you ignore metaphor and conflate prophetic passages speaking about different peoples living in different epochs then you have no hope of understanding more than very little of Revelation, the millennium, or much else.

 

[Earburner]

Look, read and learn.

Metaphor, simile and hyperbole in Apocalyptic literature:

Simile: As rust is to iron, so is idleness to the soul.
Metaphor: Idleness is the rust of the soul.
Hyperbole: "You've told me that a million times."
Simile: Genesis 15:5; Genesis 22:17
Metaphor: Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1

Whereas truth is light,
(John 14:6).

the sun and the moon,
our rulers of might
(Genesis 1:16; Psalm 89:35-37 Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1).

When summer is at is height
and the sun is shining bright,
it's reflection in the moon
comes into sight,
and wise and faithful saints
like the stars, are shining as is right
(Genesis 22:17; Daniel 12:3).

Being "in the heavens",
they shine in the earth
(Colossians 3:1-4; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6),
and as "the abundance of the sea",
blessing upon blessing do they birth
(Isaiah 60:5).

"From heaven" for righteousness and truth,
"the stars in their courses fight"
(Judges 4:6-7; Judges 5:18-20),

and the blood of Christ is their might
(Revelation 12:11).

But when calamity comes,
and the stars fall from the heavens
(Daniel 8:9-10; Revelation 6:12-13),

False prophets and false teachers abound,
rivers and fountains of water are made bitter.
Their teaching is not sound.
(John 7:37-39; Revelation 8:10-12; Revelation 16:4-7)

and when the sun becomes darkened,
and the moon too, loses her might,
she reflects not the sun's light.

When the moon turns the color of blood
and the sun is hiding its face,
(Matthew 24:29),
and the social and political order is being removed,
then "the earth is being moved out of its place,
and the heavens and earth are shaking"
(Isaiah 13:9-13; Revelation 6:12-17).

and the kingdom of wickedness is being defeated.
(Revelation 19:11-21)

The Lord Jesus Christ remains Victorious,
on the throne of God He is seated
(Revelation 21:1-22:21).
​

Some of the scriptures you quote in your post above referred to the destruction of ancient Babylon, and you go and mix them up with New Testament prophecy, in which the New Testament remains 100% consistent with the use of the same metaphor, hyperbole, simile and symbolism employed in the Old Testament when describing God's judgment coming for example upon Babylon or upon Jerusalem.

So as your post above shows, you conflate lots of things because of your lack of knowledge and understanding of the Bible's Apocalyptic literature. You are completely incapable of distinguishing between the literal and the metaphorical. Anywhere in scripture. So you have no hope of understanding more than very little of Revelation, the millennium, or much else.

1Cor.2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [Spirit] of God.

And of which does your faith stand?

 

[Zao is life]

1Cor.2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [Spirit] of God.

And of which does your faith stand?

Not in your wisdom, but in God's.

 

[Earburner]

Metaphor, simile and hyperbole in Apocalyptic literature:

Simile: As rust is to iron, so is idleness to the soul.
Metaphor: Idleness is the rust of the soul.
Hyperbole: "You've told me that a million times."
Simile: Genesis 15:5; Genesis 22:17
Metaphor: Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1

Whereas truth is light,
(John 14:6).

the sun and the moon,
our rulers of might
(Genesis 1:16; Psalm 89:35-37 Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1).

When summer is at is height
and the sun is shining bright,
it's reflection in the moon
comes into sight,
and wise and faithful saints
like the stars, are shining as is right
(Genesis 22:17; Daniel 12:3).

Being "in the heavens",
they shine in the earth
(Colossians 3:1-4; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6),
and as "the abundance of the sea",
blessing upon blessing do they birth
(Isaiah 60:5).

"From heaven" for righteousness and truth,
"the stars in their courses fight"
(Judges 4:6-7; Judges 5:18-20),

and the blood of Christ is their might
(Revelation 12:11).

But when calamity comes,
and the stars fall from the heavens
(Daniel 8:9-10; Revelation 6:12-13),

False prophets and false teachers abound,
rivers and fountains of water are made bitter.
Their teaching is not sound.
(John 7:37-39; Revelation 8:10-12; Revelation 16:4-7)

and when the sun becomes darkened,
and the moon too, loses her might,
she reflects not the sun's light.

When the moon turns the color of blood
and the sun is hiding its face,
(Matthew 24:29),
and the social and political order is being removed,
then "the earth is being moved out of its place,
and the heavens and earth are shaking"
(Isaiah 13:9-13; Revelation 6:12-17).

and the kingdom of wickedness is being defeated.
(Revelation 19:11-21)

The Lord Jesus Christ remains Victorious,
on the throne of God He is seated
(Revelation 21:1-22:21).
​

Some of the scriptures you quote in your post above referred to the destruction of ancient Babylon, and you're mixing them up with New Testament prophecy, in which the New Testament remains 100% consistent with the use of the same metaphor, hyperbole, simile and symbolism employed in the Old Testament when describing God's judgment coming for example upon Babylon or upon Jerusalem.

So as your post above shows, you've conflated lots of things, maybe because of your lack of knowledge and understanding of the Bible's Apocalyptic literature. It seems as though you are completely incapable of distinguishing between the literal and the metaphorical in scripture. If you ignore metaphor and conflate prophetic passages speaking about different peoples living in different epochs then you have no hope of understanding more than very little of Revelation, the millennium, or much else.

Isaiah 55:8-9, Zechariah 4:6, John 16:13, 1 Corinthians 2:5.

 

[Earburner]

Not in your wisdom, but in God's.

Of course! That is what I said.
We all need to reflect and examine of WHO it is exactly that we are learning and teaching FROM.

 

[GEN2REV]

So Christ did not resurrect and offer God the OT firstfruits? Why did Paul mention Christ the firstfruits, as if part of the order?

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Understand all will be made alive:

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; (the OT saints at the Cross.)


afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (Those alive and remain)

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

All men is all humanity. You claim it only includes those alive and remain.

Notice the semi colon and the period? They indicate at different times.

We know that there were OT saints resurrected at the Cross, the firstfruits.

We know those alive at the time of the Second Coming will be gathered.

We know that after the 1,000 year reign the kingdom will be presented to God. Paul said all humanity in their order. Paul did not say only a select few at the Second Coming.

Stephen while being stoned was greated by Jesus welcoming him into Paradise. Surely Paul did not mean that only happened 1900+ years later. That would be a very very long greeting. You are not interpreting 1 Corinthians 15. You are forcing the text to say what your theological bias demands it says. You are dictating God's Word.

You deny the gap of the last 1992 years, because that would also point out a gap with the word "then". Yes, you do lump the Cross, the Second Coming, and the GWT into the same event in 30AD. You refuse to acknowledge the passing of time. The word "order" is your key contextual point. Order does not indicate one single event. Order indicates at separate times.

"But every man in his own order"

Not:

"But every man at the same time"

I didn't claim any of what you say here. Your entire post is a sham.

The passage is discussing the resurrection, not who belongs to Christ.

Yeah, Christ was the first fruits.

Those who are resurrected at His coming are not those who "are alive and remain."

In verse 23, there is no comma after Christ. He IS the firstfruits, regardless of who else was resurrected at that time.
1 Corinthians 15:23

The only semi colon is after firstfruits - meaning that the rest are later "at His coming", at His return. Just like it says.

As usual, you have to twist, distort and mangle Scripture to force it to say what you want it to ... and it still doesn't work.

Your intentions with the Bible aren't sincere in the least.