The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Charlie24]

The Law covenant was indeed a tutor leading to the Christ sir. Make no mistake not one individual who goes to heaven has not "worked" for God, in fact they are extremely zealous in their service to Jehovah otherwise they would not have been selected.

Jesus made it quite clear however, that doing, yes doing the will of Jehovah is essential in having a relationship with Him, and by our obedience to His laws we show our love for Him 1 Jn 5:3. You can accept the assignment or not, but if you choose not to, do not be surprised where you hear the words of Jesus echoed in your case: (Matthew 25:24-30) . . .“Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

Jesus was the last Prophet under the Law of Old Covenant. He taught the Law in which this parable is an example.

When Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the dead, He ushered in a New Covenant in His Blood.

Grace came to man through the "doing" of Christ. He has fulfilled all the requirements of the Law for us by keeping it perfectly. By faith in Him we are granted by the Father the position of Law-keepers.

This parable is for us in the New Covenant an example of faithfulness, not doing, for Christ did the doing for us.

In the Covenant of Grace we are not called to "do." We are called to faithfulness as seen in this parable.

1 Tim. 6:12

"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

The calling is not "doing" it is "fighting the good fight of faith" in Christ. Holding on to that faith in Him.

"Fight the good fight of faith" is firmly holding on to faith in what Christ has done for us on the Cross.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law covenant was indeed a tutor leading to the Christ sir. Make no mistake not one individual who goes to heaven has not "worked" for God, in fact they are extremely zealous in their service to Jehovah otherwise they would not have been selected.

Jesus made it quite clear however, that doing, yes doing the will of Jehovah is essential in having a relationship with Him, and by our obedience to His laws we show our love for Him 1 Jn 5:3. You can accept the assignment or not, but if you choose not to, do not be surprised where you hear the words of Jesus echoed in your case: (Matthew 25:24-30) . . .“Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

The mistake is thinking that being obedient to God obligates Him to justify/save us as a matter of debt owed to us. I think that's where @Bible Highlighter 's doctrine is in error. Instead, works are the manifestation of the faith that solicits justification/salvation as a reward of that faith, not as a reward of debt owed us for the righteous work performed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using obedience as the litmus test of whether or not you are in the faith. The error comes in when you think your obedience earns justification/salvation making God indebted to you to give you salvation. "See, I jumped through these hoops. Now save me."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen! James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Just as you said: James is clearly addressing the issue of justification in regard to being shown to be righteous, not being made righteous as Paul uses the term.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) James 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works, and not by faith only (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works) hence, the only.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

@mailmandan

@Ferris Bueller

Again, this is just a dumb interpretation on James 2:24. There is ONLY ONE WORD “JUSTIFIED” and it is used for both FAITH and WORKS in James 2:24. So if you say that this word justified is not salvific in James 2:24, then you are saying that there is a type of justification involving faith that is non-salvific. This means that your reading of Romans 5:1 when it says that we are justified by faith is non-salvific if you want to be consistent with your use of the word justified in regards to the FAITH used in James 2:24.

The word faith appears in James 2:24.
The word faith appears in James 2:24.
The word faith appears in James 2:24.

The word justified is used in relation to faith also in James 2:24.
The word justified is used in relation to faith also in James 2:24.
The word justified is used in relation to faith also in James 2:24.

James 2:24
“You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

Notice the word “faith” in James 2:24.

Again, this means if you are saying that the word justified in James 2:24 is non-salvific, then you must also declare that this following passage in Romans is also non-salvific, too.

Romans 5:1-2
“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

For if the word justified is non-salvific in James 2:24 (because it also used to refer to the faith), then we must also read Romans 3:25-28 as being non-salvific, too.

Romans 3:25-28

25 “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”​

But if that is the case, then it would not make any sense.
This is why folks need to read the context.
Protestantism has done a number on people’s minds.
They cannot see the forest from the trees.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, this is just a dumb interpretation on James 2:24. There is ONLY ONE WORD “JUSTIFIED” and it is used for both FAITH and WORKS in James 2:24.

But, like many words, it has more than one definition and usage. That's what you're not getting. And context shows us which definition Paul is using and which definition James is using. If they're using the exact same definition then they are in contradiction to one another making our Bibles, and the Christian faith, false. Just another religion of opinion.

 

[Charlie24]

However, if you believe in Protestantism: You really don’t believe in the 100% guidance of the Holy Spirit for the believer’s life. According to the Protestant man made religion: You believe that you must sin again as per 1 John 1:8 and so no 100% guidance by the Spirit fully is possible for you.

Also, if you believe you can sin and still be saved (according to the fantasy world of Protestantism), you are teaching others (even children) to treat sin no more dangerous as a fluffy kitten and you can lead children into thinking they can treat God’s grace as a license for immorality on some level (whether you want that to happen or not). But Jesus says, “It is better for him if a millstone is hung around his neck and he is thrown into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble.” (Luke 17:2).

Anyways, what did Paul mean when he said, “I die daily?”

1 Corinthians 15:31 NKJV
“I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.”

Why did Paul say this?

In the immediate context, Paul is saying that he dies to his own desires (like sin, or his own thoughts) and he conforming to his baptism (Which pictures the death of Christ - See: 1 Corinthians 15:29, Romans 6:3). For by Paul’s dying to himself, he will then one day be risen after the likeness of Christ’s resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:36 NASB
“You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;”

The same concept is shown in Romans 8:13 (that you ignore).

Romans 8:13 NIV
“For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”

So if we put death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the power of the Spirit, we will live (be raised up with Christ and live eternally).

For Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 9:27,
“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Meaning, if Paul does not keep his body from sinning, he can also be a castaway (as he preaches to others). Meaning, he will no longer be saved.

For that which will be raised must die (1 Corinthians 15:36).

1 Corinthians 15:34 says:
“Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.”

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says:
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”



Here is the problem with this line of thinking. Jesus was not advocating any kind of sin and still be saved type belief with the disciples.
Jesus said pick up your cross (suffer), deny yourself (your desires like sin and or your own thoughts), and follow Jesus.
Following Jesus is not believing in the finished work of the cross. Jesus never said in context to just believe on Him as equating with following Jesus. Following Jesus means to literally follow the life of Christ in the moral life that He lived.

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6).

This means that if we are not following Jesus in the moral life that He lived and we are not denying ourselves, we will not be saved.
Remember, that which only dies will be raised (1 Corinthians 15:26).
So if you are not dead to yourself in your sinful passions, then you will not be raised (resurrected).



This is the Achilles heel of Protestantism. They don’t realize that EVERYTHING in their Bible is a part of the faith (Including God’s commands or instructions for us).

Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God.


Side Note:

Note to our readers here (who may be just joining the conversation):

I am not Catholic or Orthodox, etcetera. I am a Non-denominational Christian who believes the “Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand It” is our sole guide for all matters of faith and for living out the faith (i.e. In doing the work of faith in love).

Paul yielded Himself to the Holy Spirit in every aspect, allowing Christ to live through him. Paul knew there was nothing he could do of himself to please God unless it came through the work and operation of the Holy Spirit which brought about Christlikeness which the Father could accept.

Gal. 2:20

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Paul did not count his good works, that was the work of the Holy Spirit through his faithfulness to Christ.

And anything that we do that God is pleased with comes from our yielding to the Holy Spirit, not from us.

That is faithfulness!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For if the word justified is non-salvific in James 2:24 (because it also used to refer to the faith), then we must also read Romans 3:25-28 as being non-salvific, too.

Read carefully!

"can such FAITH save him?" James 2:14​

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.” (2 Corinthians 12:20-21)

It’s quite a sight to behold how many have been turned aside “by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive” (Ephesians 4:14)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The mistake is thinking that being obedient to God obligates Him to justify/save us as a matter of debt owed to us. I think that's where @Bible Highlighter 's doctrine is in error. Instead, works are the manifestation of the faith that solicits justification/salvation as a reward of that faith, not as a reward of debt owed us for righteous work performed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using obedience as the litmus test of whether or not you are in the faith. The error comes in when you think your obedience earns justification/salvation making God indebted to you to give us salvation. "See, I jumped through these hoops. Now save me."

You fail to understand that Paul was arguing against the heresy of which I call: Circumcision Salvationism. This was the false belief that said you had to be first circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1). This is why Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing in Galatians 5:2. This is why in Romans 3:1, Paul asked the question, what profit is there in circumcision ? This is why Paul brought up circumcision in Romans 4:9-12. For if a person believed they had to be circumcised first to be initially saved, they would be making the LAW or WORKS the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation. It would be WORKS ALONE SALVATIONISM (Which is not the same thing as being saved initially by God’s grace without works - Ephesians 2:8-9, and then later being saved in the Sanctification Process to live a holy, and fruitful life by the Spirit as a part of God’s plan of salvation - 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13).

Romans 4:4, and Works of Earning Money vs. Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift.

To him that works his reward is not of grace but it is of debt as if it was some kind of obligation like at a job whereby he works so as to earn money.

"Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but as an obligation (something owed to him)." (Romans 4:4) (AMPC).​

So yes. I agree. Works Alone or trading dollars for hours like at a job involving salvation is wrong. Works Alone Salvationism (without God’s grace) is wrong because one has no grace or rest ever. This would purely be a works based system of salvation with no grace or mercy (like with Christ) if one messes up. A person’s good deeds have to outweigh their bad deeds.

But this is not the same thing as "Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift."

I believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:

If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:

If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

Anyways, in conclusion: We know that working like at a job (trading dollars for hours) is not the same as doing "Works of responsibility in owning a free gift." Paul is not talking about responsibility in possessing Jesus Christ (Who is our gift). Paul is talking about trying to earn your salvation by a system of "Works Salvationism Alone" that did not include God's grace at all. But men today confuse the issue to justify sin under God’s grace (Which is what Jude 1:4 warns against).

 

[mailmandan]

Read carefully!

"can such FAITH save him?" James 2:14​

Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can such/that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein?” (Jeremiah 12:4)

Some Christians believe they commit wickedness everyday.

Madness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read carefully!

"can such FAITH save him?" James 2:14​

First, you are not addressing the problem of the word faith being used in relation to the word justified.
If you are saying the word justified is NON-SALVIFIC in James 2:24 in relation to works, then you must ALSO say the same thing for the word FAITH in James 2:24. If that is the case, then your reading of Romans 3:25-28 is non-sense. Clearly Romans 3:25-28 is dealing with salvation when it speaks about being justified by faith. So your belief system here is self imploding. It’s contradictory and highly illogical.

Second, in James 2:14: James is referring to a faith devoid of works of faith (done in love).
James is not referring to Initial Faith (of which Paul is talking about).
James is talking about CONTINUED FAITH that is evidence by the WORK of FAITH.
Even Paul says there is a thing called the work of faith (See: 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11).
In James 2:14: This kind of CONTINUED faith will not save him (if it is barren and unfruitful).
This proves my case that you need to have works of faith to be saved.
For can you be fruitless and barren of works of faith and be saved?
Even the apostle Paul says you can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work in Titus 1:16.
Can a person who denies God be saved? Surely not.
James 2:18 says he will show you his faith by his works. Works of faith. Not just any kind of works.
This means that faith and works are tied together in such a way that they cannot be separated.
Works of faith is a part of your faith.
We are justified (declared just by God) by faith.
Works of faith is a part of your faith and so works of faith…. Save you, too.
If this is not the case… then you can be saved with no works of faith throughout your life.
You can be saved living out your faith being barren and unfruitful.
That is if faith alone truly saves… this is how it must be.
But the only place in the Bible that uses the word faith alone makes a point how it is not by faith alone (by which we are saved).
For even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can such/that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

So are you saying that Romans 5:1-2, and Romans 3:25-28 is non-salvific?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

This happened once because of sin:

“…the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace.” (Jeremiah 12:12)

Imagine what will happen to you at the judgment if you are still sinning here and there…

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Ferris Bueller

Do you know that works (works of faith done in love) makes a person’s faith perfect?

James 2:22 NKJV
“Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?”

So faith and works are tied together and they cannot be separated.
They have a symbiotic relationship.
A CONTINUED FAITH cannot be by faith alone, but it will have it’s work (So as to make our FAITH perfect).

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
Can a dead faith save anyone?
So this proves faith alone Salvationism pushed by Protestantism is not true.
Paul was referring to Works ALONE Salvationism because of the problem of Circumcision for salvation in Romans 4:2.
Paul was not making a blanket statement in Romans 4:2 to condemn even the works of faith that follow after one is saved by God’s grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This happened once because of sin:

“…the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace.” (Jeremiah 12:12)

Imagine what will happen to you at the judgment if you are still sinning here and there…

Agreed. They don’t understand the following truths.

“…righteousness delivereth from death.” (Proverbs 10:2).

“…righteousness delivereth from death.” (Proverbs 11:4).

“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (1 John 3:7).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Do you believe you are still a sinner in Christ?

“This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart…” (Jeremiah 13:10)

“…I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.” (Jeremiah 13:14)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The fate of the Once Saved Always Saved teachers and their disciples of old:

“Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed. And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.” (Jeremiah 14:15-16)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Still think you are a sinner in Christ?

“And I will fan them with a fan in the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy my people, since they return not from their ways.” (Jeremiah 15:7)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

How God dealt with his people who continued in sin:

“They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.” (Jeremiah 16:4)