Johann
Well-Known Member
I can give you examples where some were Spirit filled FIRST and then got baptized-yes?
Johann.
What does "born again" mean?
- Thread starter thelord's_pearl
- Start date
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Johann.
Oh dear Johann, you misunderstood why I was laughing. I was laughing because you made it so simple while Taken explained it in a long way but it's ok. So it was a compliment on you. I hate it when this happens, when people misunderstand and take what I did or said in the wrong way.
Johann
Well-Known Member
My apologies dear sister-it's very late here and I am tired.
Thank you for the correction.
Shalom to you and family.
Signing off
Johann.
That's exactly what the scripture, Acts 2:38, says . Baptism 1st afterwhich you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. So even if someone says they received the Holy Ghost before baptism, it's not possible.
Agree.
There is a Difference between the Holy Spirit being “WITH” a person and the Holy Spirit being “IN” a person.
The Holy Spirit is not “permanent”….UNTIL the Holy Spirit has ENTERED “IN” a person…
and Gods “WORKS”…(forgiving, circumcision of ones heart, new heart, planting of His Seed, cleansing, covering, sanctifying, justifying, sealing, etc. . ie…the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit….”permanent” forever WITH God.
Glory to God,
Taken
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Acts 10:44-45-46 Gift of the Holy Spirit poured out.
With the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Acts 10:47 Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit.
An example of water baptism a f t e r receiving the Holy Spirit.
They were filled with the Spirit before water baptism.
With the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Acts 10:47 Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit.
An example of water baptism a f t e r receiving the Holy Spirit.
They were filled with the Spirit before water baptism.
thanks so much for this post! Very helpful. So this shows that you can receive the Holy Spirit before you got baptized. @DJT_47
this is interesting too. Does everyone agree that if you receive the Holy Spirit prior to getting baptized that the Holy Spirit is just WITH you but that if you get baptized 'in the name of Jesus' then it's IN you?
I am confused about this too because it doesn't seem like everyone who says they believe in Jesus and got baptized understand the concept that God doesn't want us to do works of the flesh but He does require us to do works by the Spirit and to repent as Jesus said. So therefore, they can't be saved. I have talked about this in detail with Bob Estey in the thread, "Do you feel your sin just as I feel my sin?" Therefore, if not every Christian understands this, that means God does not give His Spirit IN them until they start repenting and strive in their repentance with the help of the Holy Spirit, the Helper.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I disagree. Baptism is a ritual that demonstrates that the person has buried their old "flesh" identity and has arisen as a new, Spirit-filled person in Christ.
What do you mean baptised?
I was birthed in the Spirit...supernaturally birthed......Born Again.......I was baptised in water, around 3 months after being birthed in the Spirit......
You must be birthed in the Spirit.....through the name and belief in Jesus......it’s all the work of God through the Spirit.
Then you have that new heart and Spirit within....Without that....no one is Born Again, imo/ belief.
We are baptised in water after we have been birthed in the Spirit.
Water baptism will not save anyone.....
John 3:6 in Other Translations
KJV6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
ESV
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
NLT
6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.
MSG
6 When you look at a baby, it's just that: a body you can look at and touch. But the person who takes shape within is formed by something you can't see and touch - the Spirit - and becomes a living spirit.
Johann
Well-Known Member
No-I don't agree with Taken sister.
Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
-----------------------------------------
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
ἐσφραγίσθητε
Transliteration: esphragisthēte
Morphology: V-AIP-2P
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's no.: G4972 (σφραγίζω)
Meaning: To seal, set a seal upon.
Ye also (kai humeis). Ye Gentiles (now Christians), in contrast to hēmās (we) in Eph_1:12.
In whom (en hōi). Repeated third time (once in Eph_1:11, twice in Eph_1:13), and note ho or hos in Eph_1:14.
Ye were sealed (esphragisthēte). First aorist passive indicative of sphragizō, old verb, to set a seal on one as a mark or stamp, sometimes the marks of ownership or of worship of deities like stigmata (Gal_6:17). Marked and authenticated as God’s heritage as in Eph_4:30. See note on 2Co_1:22 for the very use of the metaphor here applied to the Holy Spirit even with the word arrabōn (earnest).
Spirit (pneumati). In the instrumental case.
RWS
New Testament
A. God's special presence, power, and equipping
B. The Spirit is connected to God's activity in the church (mostly in John)
1. prophecy
2. miracles
3. boldness to proclaim the gospel
4. wisdom (i.e., the gospel)
5. joy
6. brings in the new age
7. conversion (i.e., wooing and indwelling)
8. Christlikeness
9. special gifts of ministry
10. prays for believers
The Spirit awakens mankind's desire for fellowship with God, for which they were created. This fellowship is possible because of the person and work of Jesus, God's Messiah- The new spiritual awakening leads to Christ-like living, serving, and trusting.
C. It can best be understood as a spiritual continuum with the Holy Spirit on one end, and mankind as a physical creature of this planet, but also a spiritual creature in God's image, at the other end.
D. Paul is the NT author who develops a theology of the Spirit/spirit.
1. Paul uses Spirit to contrast flesh (i.e., sin nature)
2. Paul uses spirit to contrast the physical
3. Paul uses Spirit/spirit to contrast human thinking, knowing, and being
E. Some examples from 1 Corinthians
1. the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor. 12:3
2. the power and wisdom of God conveyed through the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor. 2:4-5
3. God's actions in the believer
a. new mindset, 1 Cor. 2:12; 14:14,32
b. new temple, 1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19-20
c. new life (i.e., morality), 1 Cor. 6:9-11
d. new life symbolized in baptism, 1 Cor. 12:13
e. one with God (i.e., conversion), 1 Cor. 6:17
f. God's wisdom, not the world's wisdom, 1 Cor. 2:12-15; 14:14,32,37
g. spiritual giftedness of every believer for ministry, 1 Corinthians 12 and 14
4. the spiritual in contrast to the physical, 1 Cor. 9:11; 10:3; 15:44
5. spiritual realm in contrast to physical realm, 1 Cor. 2:11; 5:5; 7:34; 15:45; 16:18
-and there is so much more I want to share-but space will not permit me @thelord's_pearl
God bless dear sister.
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “‘I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again”’” (John 3:3–7).
The phrase translated “born again” can also be translated as “born from above.” Nicodemus had a real need. He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation that could only come from above. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1–4, 18). John 1:12–13 indicates that being “born again” also carries the idea of becoming “children of God” through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.
The question logically comes, “Why does a person need to be born again?” The apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:1 says, “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins” (NKJV). To the Romans he wrote, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Sinners are spiritually “dead”; when they receive spiritual life through faith in Christ, the Bible likens it to a rebirth. Only those who are born again have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.
Twice in His conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus stressed the truth that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God (John 3:3, 5). Being born once makes us children of Adam, and we share Adam’s corruption. We need a second birth—a spiritual birth—to make us children of God. We must be born again.
How does the new birth come to be? Ephesians 2:8–9 states, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” When one is saved, he has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of that new birth. Faith in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is the means by which one is born again. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17).
If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, will you consider the prompting of the Holy Spirit as He speaks to your heart? You need to be born again. Will you pray a prayer of repentance and faith and become a new creation in Christ today? “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God” (John 1:12–13).
What does it mean to be a born again Christian? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean to be a born again Christian? How can I become a born again Christian?
www.gotquestions.org
I think we must keep it real simple-now is not the time to sound so "scholarly"
Johann.
Last edited:
Johann
Well-Known Member
His Birth and Ours
by Pastor J. C. O'Hair
For more articles by Pastor J. C. O'Hair, visit the J. C. O'Hair Online Library.
Print This Article
“NOW THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST WAS ON THIS WISE: WHEN AS HIS MOTHER MARY WAS ESPOUSED TO JOSEPH, BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER, SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD OF THE HOLY GHOST”. Matthew 1:18.
“FOR THAT WHICH IS CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT”. Matthew 1:20.
“BEHOLD, I WAS SHAPEN IN INIQUITY; AND IN SIN DID MY MOTHER CONCEIVE ME.” Psalm 51:5.
“BUT THE SCRIPTURE HATH CONCLUDED ALL UNDER SIN,” Galatians 3:22. “BY NATURE THE CHILDREN OF WRATH.” Ephesians 2:3. “THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH”, John 3:6. “THEY THAT ARE IN THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD.” Romans 8:8.
“FOR I KNOW THAT IN ME (THAT IS IN MY FLESH) DWELLETH NO GOOD THING.” Romans 7:18.
“But as many as received Him (Christ), to them gave He power to become the sons of God, to them that believe on His name; which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God.” John 1:11 and 12. “Ye must be born anew.” John 3:7. Concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ we are told, in Colossians 1:15, that He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature. What ever truth the Holy Spirit would convey to our minds and hearts in this blessed truth we are sure that He would not have us follow the error of some teachers of the Bible; that the eternal Christ, before the ages was created by God, He was in the form of God, He was with God, He was God. “He is before all things and by Him all things consist.”
“The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” John 1:14. “The Second man is from heaven.” I Corinthians 15:47. He shared the Father’s glory before the world was. John 17:5. He was made lower than the angels for the suffering of death. Hebrews 2:9.
Although made in the likeness of sinful flesh, the Son of God, born of the virgin Mary, was holy, harmless, undefiled and separate from sinners. He knew no sin. The holy child Jesus was not born within the natural law of procreation. He had no human progenitor. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, He inherited none of Adam’s sin. This sinless Saviour was made sin on the cross. II Corinthians 5:20 and 21.
Some one has estimated that 20 billion people have descended from Adam. By Adam sin and death have passed unto and upon all men.
Inasmuch as we were not born as the Holy Child was born, we cannot live as the Holy Child lived. It is worse than folly to talk about becoming holy by walking in His footsteps. We can only walk in Adam’s footsteps until we undergo a spiritual change, a Divine transformation, “God’s workmanship created in Jesus Christ.” Ephesians 2:9 and 10. God has told us how to become holy. “By the which will we are sanctified (made holy) by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” Hebrews 10:10.
To be sure the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, His once-for-all sacrifice, would have been valueless to accomplish our eternal redemption, had He not lived a sinless life, for He had to be God’s Lamb without spot or blemish. But His sinless life could have accomplished nothing but condemnation for sinful humanity apart from His death and resurrection After we die with Christ we are raised with Him to walk it newness of life. Then we are told to put off the old man and to put on the new man. Ephesians 4:22 to 24. Then we can say “Christ liveth in me.”
To Nicodemus the Messiah said, “except a man be born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3, “Marvel not that I said, ye must be born again”. John 3:7. How? By looking to the Son of man on the tree. John 3:13 and 14. Paul wrote that we are saved by the washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5 to 7. He was directed by the infallible Holy Spirit when he wrote, “if any man be in Christ Jesus, there is a new creation.” II Corinthians 5:17. He wrote, no hope, no cure in religion; only in the new creation. Galatians 6:15. The sinner’s place of refuge, blessing, salvation, security is in Christ Jesus unto good works”. Ephesians 2:5 and 10.
There may be both a difference and distinction between the new birth which Christ, proclaimed to the ruler of Israel, and the new creation, He committed with the ministry of reconciliation to Paul for us. But let us not argue with the sinners whether it is regeneration or the new creation. Let us get them to Calvary, where the Lord of glory was crucified and became the Saviour of the world; and persuade them to appropriate by faith so they can with assurance say, “He is now my Saviour.”
As many as received Him to them He gave the right to become the sons of God. If you are among the unredeemed members of Adam’s family, why not celebrate this Christmas 1935 by beginning to live? You can never live until you live in Christ and with Christ. You must first die with Him by accepting His death.
For more articles by Pastor J. C. O'Hair, visit the J. C. O'Hair Online Library.
Hope this is helpful @Bob Estey
Johann.
by Pastor J. C. O'Hair
For more articles by Pastor J. C. O'Hair, visit the J. C. O'Hair Online Library.
Print This Article
“NOW THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST WAS ON THIS WISE: WHEN AS HIS MOTHER MARY WAS ESPOUSED TO JOSEPH, BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER, SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD OF THE HOLY GHOST”. Matthew 1:18.
“FOR THAT WHICH IS CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT”. Matthew 1:20.
“BEHOLD, I WAS SHAPEN IN INIQUITY; AND IN SIN DID MY MOTHER CONCEIVE ME.” Psalm 51:5.
“BUT THE SCRIPTURE HATH CONCLUDED ALL UNDER SIN,” Galatians 3:22. “BY NATURE THE CHILDREN OF WRATH.” Ephesians 2:3. “THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH”, John 3:6. “THEY THAT ARE IN THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD.” Romans 8:8.
“FOR I KNOW THAT IN ME (THAT IS IN MY FLESH) DWELLETH NO GOOD THING.” Romans 7:18.
“But as many as received Him (Christ), to them gave He power to become the sons of God, to them that believe on His name; which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God.” John 1:11 and 12. “Ye must be born anew.” John 3:7. Concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ we are told, in Colossians 1:15, that He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature. What ever truth the Holy Spirit would convey to our minds and hearts in this blessed truth we are sure that He would not have us follow the error of some teachers of the Bible; that the eternal Christ, before the ages was created by God, He was in the form of God, He was with God, He was God. “He is before all things and by Him all things consist.”
“The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” John 1:14. “The Second man is from heaven.” I Corinthians 15:47. He shared the Father’s glory before the world was. John 17:5. He was made lower than the angels for the suffering of death. Hebrews 2:9.
Although made in the likeness of sinful flesh, the Son of God, born of the virgin Mary, was holy, harmless, undefiled and separate from sinners. He knew no sin. The holy child Jesus was not born within the natural law of procreation. He had no human progenitor. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, He inherited none of Adam’s sin. This sinless Saviour was made sin on the cross. II Corinthians 5:20 and 21.
Some one has estimated that 20 billion people have descended from Adam. By Adam sin and death have passed unto and upon all men.
Inasmuch as we were not born as the Holy Child was born, we cannot live as the Holy Child lived. It is worse than folly to talk about becoming holy by walking in His footsteps. We can only walk in Adam’s footsteps until we undergo a spiritual change, a Divine transformation, “God’s workmanship created in Jesus Christ.” Ephesians 2:9 and 10. God has told us how to become holy. “By the which will we are sanctified (made holy) by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” Hebrews 10:10.
To be sure the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, His once-for-all sacrifice, would have been valueless to accomplish our eternal redemption, had He not lived a sinless life, for He had to be God’s Lamb without spot or blemish. But His sinless life could have accomplished nothing but condemnation for sinful humanity apart from His death and resurrection After we die with Christ we are raised with Him to walk it newness of life. Then we are told to put off the old man and to put on the new man. Ephesians 4:22 to 24. Then we can say “Christ liveth in me.”
To Nicodemus the Messiah said, “except a man be born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3, “Marvel not that I said, ye must be born again”. John 3:7. How? By looking to the Son of man on the tree. John 3:13 and 14. Paul wrote that we are saved by the washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5 to 7. He was directed by the infallible Holy Spirit when he wrote, “if any man be in Christ Jesus, there is a new creation.” II Corinthians 5:17. He wrote, no hope, no cure in religion; only in the new creation. Galatians 6:15. The sinner’s place of refuge, blessing, salvation, security is in Christ Jesus unto good works”. Ephesians 2:5 and 10.
There may be both a difference and distinction between the new birth which Christ, proclaimed to the ruler of Israel, and the new creation, He committed with the ministry of reconciliation to Paul for us. But let us not argue with the sinners whether it is regeneration or the new creation. Let us get them to Calvary, where the Lord of glory was crucified and became the Saviour of the world; and persuade them to appropriate by faith so they can with assurance say, “He is now my Saviour.”
As many as received Him to them He gave the right to become the sons of God. If you are among the unredeemed members of Adam’s family, why not celebrate this Christmas 1935 by beginning to live? You can never live until you live in Christ and with Christ. You must first die with Him by accepting His death.
For more articles by Pastor J. C. O'Hair, visit the J. C. O'Hair Online Library.
Hope this is helpful @Bob Estey
Johann.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”
The Scripture seems to indicate that as soon as Cornelius and his household heard the gospel and put their faith in Christ, they immediately received the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues. However, we must add that, although in this instance these two experiences happened together, they still remain two quite distinct experiences.
Furthermore, the evidence that Cornelius and his household had received the Holy Spirit was not the fact that they had put their faith in Christ, but the fact that, under the impulse of the Holy Spirit, they spoke with tongues.
In the account of what happened in the household of Cornelius, the following three different phrases are all used to describe the same experience: “the Holy Spirit fell upon” them; “the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on” them; and they “received the Holy Spirit.” Where Peter describes the same incident a second time, he uses the following three phrases: “the Holy Spirit fell upon them”; they were “baptised with [in] the Holy Spirit”; “God gave them the same gift [of the Holy Spirit]” (Acts 11:15-17).
Earlier, two similar phrases were used concerning the Samaritans: The Holy Spirit “had fallen upon none of them”; and “they received the Holy Spirit” (Acts 8:16-17).
Putting these passages together, we find that a total of five different phrases are used to describe this one experience: “the Holy Spirit fell upon” them; “the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on” them; they “received the Holy Spirit”; they were “baptised with [in] the Holy Spirit”; and “God gave them the gift” of the Holy Spirit.
Some modern interpreters would suggest that these different phrases refer to different experiences. However, this is not in line with the usage of the apostles in the New Testament. According to the apostles, these different phrases all denote one single experience – although they describe it from different aspects. It is the same thing for a person to receive the Holy Spirit or receive the gift of the Holy Spirit as it is to be baptised in the Holy Spirit, or for the Holy Spirit to fall upon that person, or for the Holy Spirit to be poured out on that person.
Dear Lord, whatever the theologically correct name is, I would like to experience the baptism with the Holy Spirit in my life daily. Thank You for making Your own Spirit live in me with all the supernatural characteristics that go with it. Amen.
J.
The Scripture seems to indicate that as soon as Cornelius and his household heard the gospel and put their faith in Christ, they immediately received the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues. However, we must add that, although in this instance these two experiences happened together, they still remain two quite distinct experiences.
Furthermore, the evidence that Cornelius and his household had received the Holy Spirit was not the fact that they had put their faith in Christ, but the fact that, under the impulse of the Holy Spirit, they spoke with tongues.
In the account of what happened in the household of Cornelius, the following three different phrases are all used to describe the same experience: “the Holy Spirit fell upon” them; “the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on” them; and they “received the Holy Spirit.” Where Peter describes the same incident a second time, he uses the following three phrases: “the Holy Spirit fell upon them”; they were “baptised with [in] the Holy Spirit”; “God gave them the same gift [of the Holy Spirit]” (Acts 11:15-17).
Earlier, two similar phrases were used concerning the Samaritans: The Holy Spirit “had fallen upon none of them”; and “they received the Holy Spirit” (Acts 8:16-17).
Putting these passages together, we find that a total of five different phrases are used to describe this one experience: “the Holy Spirit fell upon” them; “the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on” them; they “received the Holy Spirit”; they were “baptised with [in] the Holy Spirit”; and “God gave them the gift” of the Holy Spirit.
Some modern interpreters would suggest that these different phrases refer to different experiences. However, this is not in line with the usage of the apostles in the New Testament. According to the apostles, these different phrases all denote one single experience – although they describe it from different aspects. It is the same thing for a person to receive the Holy Spirit or receive the gift of the Holy Spirit as it is to be baptised in the Holy Spirit, or for the Holy Spirit to fall upon that person, or for the Holy Spirit to be poured out on that person.
Dear Lord, whatever the theologically correct name is, I would like to experience the baptism with the Holy Spirit in my life daily. Thank You for making Your own Spirit live in me with all the supernatural characteristics that go with it. Amen.
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Letting the Holy Spirit Lead | Derek Prince Ministries
Discover how to live a life free from the control of sin and become a mature and complete Christian by being led by the Holy Spirit.
www.derekprince.com
Send this link to our brother @Bob Estey dear sister.
Johann.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Jim B
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