The point is to interpret what is being said justly and fairly, even if they don't like with what is being said. Otherwise....wickedness. The spirit of Christ in one is just and fair....not unequal scales......IF one has His Spirit. If not......well, the fruit is rotten. Bad figs.
What is Mystery Babylon?
- Thread starter Episkopos
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Amen. (Infants in Christ excepted I think...it's after one should have grown into an age of accountability, of knowing right from wrong and past needing the milk of mother church that the curses start to set in.)
And if this is true of those who are trusting in man and flesh....how much worse the curses and evil for those who actively teach their congregants to trust in them, and in their institution.
A little confusing here Epi. A genuine believer who is now born from above, given the spirit of the Son and then in turn the Spirit of the Father God must already have believed on Christ to be given these spirits. And it was and still is a dire need to depend and believe in Christ; it is the reason why one now is being saved. There is no faking this holy process and miracle.
And the other confusing statement is, as I presume you meant, the free gift of salvation. If not, then by all means correct me. We are justified by Christ after we accept this free gift to salvation. So in this sense we are justified by accepting the deeper meaning of this free gift.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I love Michael McDonald's music, but could never figure out songs like this, what the heck was he singing about? It's kinda like your thread, "Is Reality an Illusion" ... i just scratch my head. Anyways, I love his R&B soulful style.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
For sure and for certain they would . as would anyone within the realm of christendom .
AS TOO did I ..................................YET I FOLLOWED SATAN . OH I COULD LIP THAT GOSPEL like no other by mouth
but as many , I DID NOT KNOW OR LOVE HIM . I was still the spawn of satan . IF that puts fear into your heart
IT IS MEANT TOO DUDE . MANY CAN LIP ANYTHING , YET LIP SERVICE DONT MEAN SQUAT
if we love what men and their doctrines which contradict JESUS do teach .
YOU better watch out . YOU are already under the influence . and i speak not of alcohol my friend
but of the delusion meant to gather all as one .
WHY DO YE CALL ME LORD and yet CONTRADICT and DO NOT THE THINGS I SAY .
JESUS had a lot to say MY FRIEND and the vatican and popes REBEL AGAINST SUCH THINGS .
TO warn a soul to flee a house of a harlot is not sin , its not hate , and it is not condemnation .
TO ALLOW One to sit in such a house , though the house appears as do the leaders appear clothed with an outward appearnce
IT IS BUT WOOL covering a WOLF dude . Many can appear lamblike and yet be of and speak like a dragon .
The devil can wear more than prada , HE can wear wool my friend and so can his ministirs . BESS YOU PONDER ON THAT for a bit .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
ITs also getting very clear that many are now under the influence of that which maketh the soul drunk
I Tried to warn us sister . I surely did so many years ago . remember back to when we first met
on andrews site . THE WHORE GONNA GATHER ALL by means of a false unity and of a false love .
Many are now under that influence as they accuse us of hating catholics hating etc
AND YET as you see they are all headed as one right into THAT UNITY , THAT GATHERING .
RONALD is under its sway too . ITS NOW ALL ABOUT LETS JUST FIND COMMON GROUND
and HOW DARE ANYONE SAY etc against any denomination or its vile teachers and teachings .
Ronald is under it sister . BUT HE aint alone . MOST O THIS SITE IS TOO . ITS FLOODING IN
and soon the ROOT of from whence it sprang will convince them
THAT FOLKS Like me you and others who wont go with the flow
Are A total all out threat , a danger to humanity and the earth . YOU JUST wait .
ITS GONNA get worse . IF THEY DO NOT REPENT of this , HEARTS WILL ONLY BE HARDENED MORE and more
against the TRUTH and those who stand for truth . SISTER , this cannot be stopped . WE MUST ENDURE IT
and continue to exhort no matter how much hatred increases against us . AND IT WILL INCREASE agaiinst us .
What we see now IS NOTHING compared to how IT WILL SOON and i mean SOON BE against us all who conformed not .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
YES we are . SO the question remains , what jesus are we following .
CAUSE TO BE QUITE HONEST i see a lot o folks following a false jesus , another gospel
and that one cannot save squat . BIBLE UP FRIENDS . BIBLE UP . cause so many follow another jesus now .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
hey epi i aint the one teaching a christless cross . YOU ARE . so much for the pot calling the kettel ..........
For what you falsey accuse me of doing , ITS YOU WHO DO YOURSELF .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The true sheep aint being led into the pit . Only those who love and embraced a lie GET LED INTO THAT PIT .
it is true , however that many within christendom now love and embrace a lie . BUT mark my words , THE SHEEP WONT BE
A HEEDING THEM or their leaders . JESUS HAS ALWAYS and WILL ALWAYS LEAD THE SHEEP .
and if we see any in error , well we do all to correct them . THE SHEEP will hear , though many wont .
WE are in the thralls of an all out war for souls . THIS WAR has been through all ages
but now in the end has risen to the full .
WHERE ONE SITS , IS WHERE ONE WANTED AND DESIRED TO SIT .
IF ones love is of the world they will sit under what the wordly preach
IF ONES LOVE COMETH OF GOD and of the LAMB , THEY GONNA SIT UNDER GOD and HIS CHRIST .
THIS IS A WAR and to the bible for ammo we must feast daily .
THIS IS A WAR which though the wicked appear to be growing in numbers daily
and by the eyes of men would appear to be winning
THEY WILL LOSE in the end . THIS IS A WAR ZIGGY
and though the lambs be few in number and though laws and times are changing
IN THE END WE WIN ZIGGY
FOR THE LAMBS FOLLOW HE WHO HAS ATTAINED THE VICTORY and by our faith in HIM we overcome and shall
have all victory .
THOUGH IN this life we may appear to be losing
and though in this life and this world they appear to be gaining
ON THE DAY OF THE LORD ITS ALL GONNA BACK FIRE . the lowly will be exalted and the haughty destroyed and brought low .
Parroting things back at me does not change the fact that you are so deep in religious ideology, you don't know which way is up. The delusion you are under is that...having admitted you were a slave of the devil...you can't know where you are presently. It would be like somebody thinking they are out of a storm...only to find they are in the eye of it.
A Christless cross? I preach a resurrected Christ. Life...not death religion. You have Jesus still on the cross cleaning up your mess. But you haven't been taught, and are unable to understand that the cross is also meant for us to die on., This is SO FAR outside what a self-interested pew-sitter can understand...as we are seeing.
The truth goes so far beyond your repetitive grandstanding and accusations. These merely expose that your beliefs are flesh driven...you are looking for justification based on a "new set" of dogmatic beliefs. But before the Lord NO FLESH can be justified.
So your entire premise is wrong. And accusing others of what you doing yourself, just digs you deeper into the mud that you find yourself in.
It's better to stop parroting certain bible verses and actually seek the Lord to enter into Christ...where there is eternal peace and rest.
You don't realize that I'm speaking from a deeper Christian life experience...and that gets you feeling uncomfortable. Evangelicalism is about "getting saved" and holding tight to certain religious slogans that you think keeps you saved. But if it is true that you have been quickened by the Spirit...you are then merely burying your talent and condemning anyone that speaks from beyond the very simplistic notion that ANY STEP further than a first baby step is DANGEROUS. That's why you bury your talent...for safe-keeping. So the flesh gets everything exactly wrong. And this is assuming you have even one honest bone in your body. I see nothing in your posts that suggests you are anything but a religious convert on an ideological level...the kind that fills modern pews. No wonder that you can't endure any sound doctrine. The death in you condemns life wherever it is testified of. The truth is foreign to you as you have never experienced anything beyond what an eager bible enthusiast could experience. There is no life there. Sunday morning eeby-geebies? No life there. Reading the bible to look for justification? No life there.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I'm not a wealthy person. Most times I barely make it to the end of the month before I get my disability check from the government.
I worked hard for a lot of years, paid my taxes, did my time. Then my body got broken and I live on a whopping $600 a month.
I don't go to a building they call church. I have no denomination I attend. I live alone and hopefully if things get better (which they did by the way today) my dad will be coming home to live with me too.
My church is a small church. The Lord, my dad, myself, and my 6 cats. That is what my earthy church looks like from the world's view.
But from the Spirit's view I am rich with friends and family. Not because I know them in the flesh, but because I fellowship with everyone in this forum daily. This is my spiritual church I attend outside my inner church.
As far as tithing, a whole whopping tenth of our income we are required to give to the Lord according to the law.
I find that rather umm skimpy, miserly, insufficient, considering everything the Lord has given us.
I rather give the Lord all I have to have one tenth of his love, his peace, his joy, his mercy, his compassion, his empathy, his grace, his forgiveness.
So while I don't have much money according to how the world determines rich, all these things that God has given to me, I try to share with others I come in contact with, whether in the flesh or in the spirit. Whether the outer or the inner church.
This last week I was very miserly. I was rude, and angry, and frustrated, and bitter. And my tithe was less than 0 percent.
And I tell you what, I felt wanting. I was missing out on so many blessings because of my own emotions were getting in the way.
Today I went to visit dad in his new temporary home at the rehabilitation center. I wasn't quite sure how to get there so I put the address in the GPS and off I went. I started on the right path, but then the GPS told me to take a turn, and I thought about it, where is this GPS taking me? So I followed it around the corner, up a hill, down an old dirt road and ended up dead ended in someones front yard.
So I retraced my steps back to the place I took that wrong turn and headed back on the right course.
God showed me exactly what happened in my walk with him.
I was on the right path, caring, gentle, mild, hopeful, faithful. Then my anger and my emotions sent me off course.
I retraced my steps from where I was before I got so angry, to being absolutely abominable, to repenting and asking all those I had offended for forgivess and recieving their kind words and understanding, to retracing myself and asking God to forgive me, which set me back on the right course.
I thought about this the 1 hour drive it took me to get to the rehab. And what a wonderful way for the Lord to display my shortcomings and my dependence on the things of the world, including my anger and the GPS.
I have nothing against monetary tithing. If I see someone who needs something, maybe they are short at the cash register or they don't have money for gas to put in their car. I will give what I can. I haven't gone broke yet, I just stay comfortably not rich, lol.
But if I see someone having a bad day, or sitting alone, or even passing them in the elevator, I always try to say something nice. To make a light joke or put a smile on their face.
That's who I am most of the time. I care about people, even though I'm not very comfortable around crowds, 2-3 is good for me at the most. And this last week I wasn't very caring at all to others except for my dad and my cats.
And God showed me I got off course, but then put me back on the right course.
And today I am blessed.
Dad is doing better. This new facility is brighter and more cheerful, and even the residents smiled and spoke kindly through their own pain and needs.
There are lessons everywhere if we just listen and watch what God is doing in our lives, with or without the almighty dollar.
People need love and compassion which warms the heart, more than cold hard cash that gets wasted on foolishness and fraud.
Kindness is more valuable than money. And sometimes it takes money to show kindness.
But money isn't kindness, it's the heart that is sharing what they have to give that matters.
What a great day!
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
This made me think of Jacob when he was wrestling with the angel and the angel grabbed Jacob by the sinew of his thigh.
Gen 32:32
Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.
Did this put Jacob out of the race?
Ok so digging here..
Abraham sent his servant to go find Isaac a wife. The servant then placed his hand under Abraham's thigh and sware concerning the matter.
Gen 24:9
And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
So this thigh thing is a sign of an oath?
Gen 32:24
And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25
And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27
And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
So the word halt came to mind. Lame, unable to walk/run.
And I find a man sitting by the pool in bethseda who was lame whom Jesus healed.
Jhn 5:2
Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Jhn 5:3
In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Jhn 5:4
For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Jhn 5:5
And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
Jhn 5:6
When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Jhn 5:7
The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Jhn 5:8
Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Jhn 5:9
And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
Jhn 5:10
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Jhn 5:11
He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
God keeps his promises.
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
The other thing I found intereting is the place where Jacob wrestled the angel.
Gen 32:22
And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok.
Gen 32:23
And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had.
Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Gen 32:31
And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
Jhn 18:1
When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples.
I don't believe in coincidences.
Just saying..
Hugs
Gen 32:22
And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok.
Gen 32:23
And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had.
Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Gen 32:31
And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
Jhn 18:1
When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples.
I don't believe in coincidences.
Just saying..
Hugs
I think it is wrong to look at the bible as something to gain for yourself. Jesus counsels us to let go of our lives...not try saving them. The bible has to be bent to make it about "getting saved'...a purely American pursuit...like the American dream sort of thing.
Well you apparently have again a quite different view, of salvation now, I guess this is the subject at-hand? I cannot tell because you never directly answered my post #223. You responded with just a sweeping canned self-centered premature opinion geared to only ridicule and condemn.
Who is saying anything about scripture is something to gain for self? I'm confused again. Is this where you might say as your immediate reaction, that they as I, are being selfish or carnal, again. And the 'higher walk' rant is readied to be fired out?
And who is trying to save themselves independent of God and his Son anyway? Is this not the prize of being saved at the end-of-the-day? You must be speaking about someone else you must know. 'Being saved' means a very lot more in actions, experience and life that the these two simple words, of course.
And for this pursuit, whatever you mean, as purely an American view, is quite astonishing and maybe an ignorant statement to make because you do not know what folks mean by them. I imagine you cannot read their minds and hearts.
And I again do not know what exactly you mean when one then cannot just become 'being saved' in their life? As if you have a red-hot fiery branding iron ready to tag me and others. I can only speculate that I'm not speaking what you want to hear, again. You can try and explain yourself, and even better yet, answer my previous post directly without this typical premature selfish condemnation and false accusations as your typical tact in most discussions you apparently do not agree with. I do not know why you have to resort to mass condemnation of their beliefs if you are so confident in what you believe regarding salvation?
And 'being saved' not just 'getting saved,' as I did not say the latter at all, is scriptural indeed Epi. Check it out
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I find that the bible is a tool to measure the stature of a person according to God's measure.
How does one measure up if they don't have a standard to go by?
And I don't believe the bible is supposed to be used to measure other people's standards, but rather our own.
It is the mirror we look in to see what improvements are lacking in our charcter.
Paul says new believers are as babes who desire the sincere milk of the word.
He also says that there will be a time for meat but some aren't ready for that yet.
So how do we learn to grow whether by milk or meat if we don't have the words to drink or chew on?
The first principles...
Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
What are the first principles and how do we learn them if we don't have the textbook to study by?
When a person first hears the gospel, they believe, and they recieve a seed of salvation. It's been planted by the hearing of the word.
Then what? It needs to be watered and tended so that it's root becomes strong and is able to bare fruit of itself.
So think of a tree. A tree drops it's seed into the ground. The seed begins to grow. It starts out a little sapling subject to the elements of heat cold wind storms. It has to overcome all of these in order for it's root to really grab hold.
I believe it takes about 3 years before some trees begin to bare fruit. And the fruit it bares is the same as the tree who's seed fell to the ground.
But there are stages of maturity a tree goes through. It begins a sapling, moves to a green tree, then it begins to grow fruit in itself., then it becomes dry and eventually dies.
Depending upon the soil the seed falls into is what determines the health and sweetness of the fruit.
God planted a garden in Eden.
Gen 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
So these trees come from the earth, earthy carnal.
There is a BEHOLD.. which catches my eye as something different. God says, I have given you upon the face of the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of A tree yeilding seed, to you it shall be for meat.
There is a difference between the trees the earth brings forth whose seed in itself after their kind, and the the fruit of A tree yeilding seed for meat That God has given. It doesn't say after it's kind but stands alone.
So some trees have have fruit after it's kind, and there are trees that bare fruit of A tree yielding seed for meat.
And we know there are two diffent kinds of trees specifally mentioned. The tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life.
Studying the different trees to be a good gardener is important.
So how does one learn about trees?
They go to horticulture school and learn from textbooks what soil, acidity, alkalinity, how much sun/shade is needed. How to prune, how to fertalize, and when to know it's ripe for eating.
What is the characteristics of the tree being tended and what kind of fruit it will bare.
We are the trees planted in the garden we call earth. There is A tree planted in a garden which is in heaven.
Earth begats earthy, and spirit begat spiritual.
And then there is the grafting in and cutting off of branches.
The bible is the textbook and the world is the schoolhouse. And the teacher is God's Spirit which leads us into all truth.
And from time to time the Lord goes walking through the garden to see how his garden grows.
Sng 6:11
I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded.
1Co 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
The bible is like Johnny Appleseed. Through the bible the seeds are planted. There are many seeds both old and new.
Some bare good fruit some not so good.
So we look to the bible as the textbook which teaches us how to be fruitful trees. But it is God that does the work in us.
Be fruitful and multiply
Hugs
How does one measure up if they don't have a standard to go by?
And I don't believe the bible is supposed to be used to measure other people's standards, but rather our own.
It is the mirror we look in to see what improvements are lacking in our charcter.
Paul says new believers are as babes who desire the sincere milk of the word.
He also says that there will be a time for meat but some aren't ready for that yet.
So how do we learn to grow whether by milk or meat if we don't have the words to drink or chew on?
The first principles...
Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
What are the first principles and how do we learn them if we don't have the textbook to study by?
When a person first hears the gospel, they believe, and they recieve a seed of salvation. It's been planted by the hearing of the word.
Then what? It needs to be watered and tended so that it's root becomes strong and is able to bare fruit of itself.
So think of a tree. A tree drops it's seed into the ground. The seed begins to grow. It starts out a little sapling subject to the elements of heat cold wind storms. It has to overcome all of these in order for it's root to really grab hold.
I believe it takes about 3 years before some trees begin to bare fruit. And the fruit it bares is the same as the tree who's seed fell to the ground.
But there are stages of maturity a tree goes through. It begins a sapling, moves to a green tree, then it begins to grow fruit in itself., then it becomes dry and eventually dies.
Depending upon the soil the seed falls into is what determines the health and sweetness of the fruit.
God planted a garden in Eden.
Gen 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
So these trees come from the earth, earthy carnal.
There is a BEHOLD.. which catches my eye as something different. God says, I have given you upon the face of the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of A tree yeilding seed, to you it shall be for meat.
There is a difference between the trees the earth brings forth whose seed in itself after their kind, and the the fruit of A tree yeilding seed for meat That God has given. It doesn't say after it's kind but stands alone.
So some trees have have fruit after it's kind, and there are trees that bare fruit of A tree yielding seed for meat.
And we know there are two diffent kinds of trees specifally mentioned. The tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life.
Studying the different trees to be a good gardener is important.
So how does one learn about trees?
They go to horticulture school and learn from textbooks what soil, acidity, alkalinity, how much sun/shade is needed. How to prune, how to fertalize, and when to know it's ripe for eating.
What is the characteristics of the tree being tended and what kind of fruit it will bare.
We are the trees planted in the garden we call earth. There is A tree planted in a garden which is in heaven.
Earth begats earthy, and spirit begat spiritual.
And then there is the grafting in and cutting off of branches.
The bible is the textbook and the world is the schoolhouse. And the teacher is God's Spirit which leads us into all truth.
And from time to time the Lord goes walking through the garden to see how his garden grows.
Sng 6:11
I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded.
1Co 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
The bible is like Johnny Appleseed. Through the bible the seeds are planted. There are many seeds both old and new.
Some bare good fruit some not so good.
So we look to the bible as the textbook which teaches us how to be fruitful trees. But it is God that does the work in us.
Be fruitful and multiply
Hugs
You didn't like my answer so you are in a snit...reacting. It is well known around the world that America is a land where people seek personal happiness. People are looking for a better life. A land of opportunities. But that is far from God's ways. When a religious industrial complex arises to satisfy the longings of those who seek a guarantee of salvation...those itching ears will have found an entire industry to cater to those wishes. The itching ears have raised up scores of teachers to re-interpret the bible to suit themselves...guaranteeing a good outcome for a certain set of beliefs. But the kicker is that you must also condemn others who don't ascribe to that policy as we see here. I'm not saying you are doing that...but that's the culture...the wind that we are operating in. Evangelicalism is very one dimensional...either you are "saved" or not. And that is NOT in the bible. It's either one is holy or not. But short-cuts around the cross and the truth are made to divert the truth to serve those who are in their own minds, at least, saved.
And you are predisposed to NOT hear the truth of the gospel and what God is looking for...His purpose. His purpose is not to make us feel good about ourselves.
I didn't say that. I'm saying that people are looking to exploit Jesus, thinking He is there to be exploited.
No...the prize is to win Christ. To enter into Him and be made into His likeness.
It's funny how people will assume that all Catholics are the same. Or all Jews. Or even all Muslims. Without judging the individuals, there are bents and pressures that the collective of whatever sort...have accepted as routine.
Salvation is ONLY from sin at the present time. When people read in an afterlife-religion bent they are showing their pagan roots.
Jesus came to save us from sin...not IN sin.
Inheriting life at the end is a whole other matter and should NOT be associated with the word "saved" at the present time. Sozo mainly means healed, or delivered...like from a physical ailment, or more deeply...going from bondage to sin, to freedom in Christ.
So then the bible is meant to be understood at a MUCH DEEPER level than what most have become used to.
You are reacting against a truth you don't like. You have to factor in your own ego and desires...iniquity...if you want to have an honest discussion about what is really in the bible. Was Jesus really the first American?
Salvation FROM sin...into a holy walk with God by abiding IN Christ.
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:1-6
Why was Jesus crucified? Easy answer...because of our sins. Our sinful ways put Him there.
There is more than one depth to the gospel. There is the universal application...Jesus dying for all people (He will have mercy on whom He wills). Those who have not said they would obey Christ...but end up doing so. In this application we are looking at a proper attitude of obedience to Christ regardless of doctrinal accuracy...or religious affiliation. God's love and mercy extend far beyond our own partisan leanings. As such some will accuse God of "inclusivism" as if that kind of mercy was a bad thing. Only hypocrites are against God's universal mercy.
And there is the application at the depth of followers of Jesus...very deep...whereby Jesus is showing us what we must each do (be crucified in the outer man ego) in order to be raised to new life, right here and now, and have fellowship with Him and the Father,
Of course the religious industrial complex (Babylon) will reject the follower of Christ depth of the gospel and latch onto the easier mercy standard...and then claim that is theirs alone....relegating the ones whom Jesus died for ...to hell. All this in a bid for self-justification. And this is a great evil.
Rather, instead of condemning others we ought to be merciful and be willing to suffer for others...even those who hate us...just like Jesus did. That is our training. To join Jesus on His cross. Not just exploit Him.
On judgment day many exploiters will be cast out. And those who thought they were not worthy of Christ will be received into an everlasting habitation. Many who are last will be first and many that are first will be last.
Why be so superficial when there is so much depth in Christ to explore?
There is more than one depth to the gospel. There is the universal application...Jesus dying for all people (He will have mercy on whom He wills). Those who have not said they would obey Christ...but end up doing so. In this application we are looking at a proper attitude of obedience to Christ regardless of doctrinal accuracy...or religious affiliation. God's love and mercy extend far beyond our own partisan leanings. As such some will accuse God of "inclusivism" as if that kind of mercy was a bad thing. Only hypocrites are against God's universal mercy.
And there is the application at the depth of followers of Jesus...very deep...whereby Jesus is showing us what we must each do (be crucified in the outer man ego) in order to be raised to new life, right here and now, and have fellowship with Him and the Father,
Of course the religious industrial complex (Babylon) will reject the follower of Christ depth of the gospel and latch onto the easier mercy standard...and then claim that is theirs alone....relegating the ones whom Jesus died for ...to hell. All this in a bid for self-justification. And this is a great evil.
Rather, instead of condemning others we ought to be merciful and be willing to suffer for others...even those who hate us...just like Jesus did. That is our training. To join Jesus on His cross. Not just exploit Him.
On judgment day many exploiters will be cast out. And those who thought they were not worthy of Christ will be received into an everlasting habitation. Many who are last will be first and many that are first will be last.
Why be so superficial when there is so much depth in Christ to explore?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
If reminding about the absolute dire necessity to believe on JESUS and keep His sayings
and be learning in the bible seemth as religious ideology to YOU , then its not I who has been infected
with religious inclusive ideology , but rather you . No life there my friend . Only death and a christless cross
But you go and learn quickly what that means .
Amen. Thanks for bringing this sister, there's a particular reason why it means something to me, in the goodness of the Lord.This made me think of Jacob when he was wrestling with the angel and the angel grabbed Jacob by the sinew of his thigh.
Gen 32:32
Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.
Did this put Jacob out of the race?
Ok so digging here..
Abraham sent his servant to go find Isaac a wife. The servant then placed his hand under Abraham's thigh and sware concerning the matter.
Gen 24:9
And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
So this thigh thing is a sign of an oath?
Gen 32:24
And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25
And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27
And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
So the word halt came to mind. Lame, unable to walk/run.
And I find a man sitting by the pool in bethseda who was lame whom Jesus healed.
Jhn 5:2
Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Jhn 5:3
In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Jhn 5:4
For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Jhn 5:5
And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
Jhn 5:6
When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Jhn 5:7
The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Jhn 5:8
Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Jhn 5:9
And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
Jhn 5:10
The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Jhn 5:11
He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
God keeps his promises.
Hugs
I believe it speaks to covenant.
And that we must become weak in our flesh in order for His strength to be made perfect in us. We can't really run this race in our own strength, though we at least try with what we have. What was Jacob like before this encounter with the Lord....he was strong in certain ways that were of his own nature and not of God. Yet, God turned it around for good, because something about Jacob's nature caused him not to let go of that angel until he blessed him with a changed nature (with weakness that was God's strength). Something about Jacob in that at least he valued the things of God, such as birthright and blessing, enough to do his utmost the best he knew how at the time, to obtain/attain these things. Could we call this encounter a second blessing, the first blessing having been the receiving of his birthright?He reminds me a bit of Peter......and it speaks to me also of God's graciousness to put up with us until He sorts us out, once we realize we need to be, and are willing to be, like Peter eventually got sorted out. In Peter's case I think it was his failure in the circumstances of Jesus' arrest that caused him to realize there was something more that he needed. He had failed in two ways, one in that he used his sword (the word?) in a wrong way when he cut off someone's ear - and then he failed to stand up for the Lord under pressure when he was questioned by the servant girl. Peter must have felt the Lord would be finished with him....yet Jesus forgave him.
He who began a good work in us will be faithful to finish it. As long as we are doing our part to keep following/obeying Jesus with all that we have..........and be willing to acknowledge our sin and wrong, failure and lack. I was struck by a verse in the old testament, when all the Lord asked was that Israel would acknowledge their sin. He didn't ask them to change themselves, just pleaded with them to acknowledge their wrong. It's so vital to be honest with ourselves and with the Lord if we are to proceed further with Him.
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