WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[doctrox]

.

The early church fathers defended the faith you think you're defending now.

Rather, your faith is not my faith. I follow Jesus Christ - not "early church fathers."

Meanwhile, a plethora of "water baptists" continue to stubbornly "defend" their dogma with sophistry and pettifogging in "Bible Study Forums."

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Students of "early church fathers" are out; workmen are in.

§"they word is truth"

But WHICH word doctrox??

Seems like we have more than one.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

*received text, aka Textus Receptus = the vernacular (common) bible of the day, given to the common man of the day, in the common language of the day, to do one thing: evangelize the world.

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
.

 

[Fred J]

Short sided and someone else's view? I guess your bible doesnt contain Gen 3;22? Or if it does and you say it is short sighted perhaps who ever wrote it was short sighted?


Every man who ever lived dies, and you will not be excluded from the same not even Jesus was excluded from death.


The dead in Christ are those who has not received from God His anointing, which would be Christ in you. He raises you from that dead state of religion that obviously you are of and refuse to come to life in Gods Holy Spirit as Adam did, Abraham did, as Moses did, Mary did, Jesus did in Matt 3:16from God Himself, as 120 did and as all today has who has Benn born again with that same renewing of mind that started in Adam, All of these we read of who God came to by the Spirit that He is came to life in Him, raising from the dead state of religions of mans ideas for a god just as you have about a god and reject coming out from that grave you are in and alive in Him.

You dont have a clue what any of Gods ways is about that his very obvious. And Jesus was very clear in Luke 17:20-21 the kingdom of GHod doesnt come with observation, it doesnt come as a man coming to life who has been dead for 2000 years, it is within you or is supposed to be but as long as you reject that new life, born again, you never will see the kingdom of God and go to the grave without it which is that second death and never see that first one where you die to your own religion ideas for a god just as Jesus did proven in Matt 3:16.

I do not follow Paul in his doctrine, I follow Jesus in his. They are not the same doctrine.


Only to you who never has met God yourself. You are exactly as the Jews were with Jesus, He was short sighted as well as you accuse me of.

I do not follow Peters doctrine I follow Jesus doctrine, as in -- John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

You act as if I need Peter or Paul to give me Gods ways LOL. And you call me short sighted?


You should try following Jesu in who he said he was in GHod instead of what others said about hi from their own perspectives such as you are doing. Try quoting Jesus sometimes in who he was in God instead of others opinions about him.


Water does not save anyone, Gods salvation come only by God Hiself come to you and open in you who he is and all of his heaven in you. And when, or should I say IF, when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him 1 John 3:2, instead of like Paul or Peter that you are like instead of like the God who resides in man as Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21.


Partially right? Half a lie is still a lie. And obviously God who baptizes man by the spirit He is and a renewing of mind to think in His terms instead of mans terms for water, Jesus called born again by that same renewing that he received from God in Matt 3:16 that you call him short sighted even tough you read who Jesus said he was in God .


Follow the crowd right into hell instead of Gods kingdom that we are? No way my friend, you follow the crowd and I will follow the one God sent to lead me to the same God who sent him to do exactly that.

You follow that crowd and I will follow the one God sent to show me the way to his Father.

And few who find His ways, very few! They like the doctrines, opinions, of a crowd instead.


And we who follow Jesus to the Father and when we see Him as He really is we are like Him. 1 John 3:2.


My old man of flesh, carnal, that was sinful, was buried never to be remembered anymore and came to life in Giods Spirit of mind to be His righteous, holy, pure and without sin. cannot sin because that old man in carnality as yourself has dies and that new man of Gods anointing, Christ, has risen from that grave, that dead state of God Spirit that you are living in this day. So obvious in your rebuttal of Jesus to receive in you the same renting of mind from God Himself that Jesus received in Matt 3:16 and said ye must be born again of it.


And all who has His glory as our own disposition of mind, His deity is who we become like Him and in His same image of. It is who we are not what you believe you are as you do, and excluding yourself from the same Spirit be in you who was in Christ Jesus.

And you call me and Jesus short sighted for having from God ourselves?

Gary, you posses the 'spirit of anti-Christ', likewise the 'spirit of error' the ones Biblically spoken of.

You've posted 'mistakes' and we've exposed it and corrected you to come out of it and rebuke the 'false spirit'.

But you seem to be relentless continuing in that 'spiritual fallacy' and causing disturbance and unrest among us.

Am just going to leave you be, it's a waste of time going back and forth with you, no thanks.

 

[Behold]

Get on track Behold.
The Apostolic Fathers and the ECFs were GREAT...

The "church fathers" created this false list i showed you.
You dont care that NONE OF THIS man made false nonsense, on the list is found in any bible, and that speaks volumes about you.

Tradition is second, but whatever you want to believe.

The NT says that "the traditions of man, have made the word of God = nothing". "(of none effect)".

And this is proven by Mary Cult addicts, who read that almost nothing this cult teaches about mary, and water, and all of the rest, is found in word of God, and YOU dont care.
This is typical of a Marycult "type".

Its pathetic.

 

[Behold]

Problem with the assumption...
but so were Enoch and Elijah.

The Bible has "problems" with Mary's false assumption.
How do you know? Because this never happened in any bible.
So, that you would try to compare it to Enoch and Elijah where this is taught in all bibles., is typical MaryCult propaganda.

The Apostolic Fathers and the ECFs believed it's Jesus' body.
Check out John 6:53.
Check out the Greek meaning of EAT in that one verse.
Interesting.

If Jesus literally meant "eat" his body........ then during the last Supper He would have cut off a piece of His body and bled into a cup and passed it all around.

And something else......the Bible forbids eating human flesh, and drinking human blood, and He would the first one to know it.

But dont let that Bible get in the way of your MaryCult theology,

The NT does teach a hierarchy.
-

No Popes in any Bible.
This "Peter Pope" nonsense was created by the Mary Cult Church Fathers.

A way to teach the story of Jesus.
Exorcists say it's the most feared prayer by satan.

Some people are demon possessed.
Some people are """" bewitched"""" by a "doctrine of Devils'".. .Paul teaches.

Catholics.
Calvinists
Mormons
JW

Just to name a few.""

Give her a break.
She bore God.

Mary is Special., but She's not "co-author of Salvation.
And she didnt fly to heaven in her dead body.
And she had other childern
-

 

[Gary Mac]

Get on track Behold.
The Apostolic Fathers and the ECFs were GREAT...
it's those that came after them that messed up.
You should read them sometime.
I didn't think it was important either,,,but it made me understand a lot of what is in the NT.

The only way one can know what the Bible is about is if God Himself come to you and open Who He is and all of His heaven in you. Outside of that it all is pure speculations, beliefs. Not even Jesus cpouild escape that fact proven in Matt 3:16.

Tradition is second, but whatever you want to believe.
As to sola scriptura...you think that works?
How come you and I can't agree after years of debate?
Looks to me like it don't work too good....
It just doesn't function...
Too many little popes running around.
Maybe we need a Protestant Pope?
And Magisterium.

That is the problem in Christaindom, everyone has their own beliefs for a god instead of receiving from God Himself who He is and who you should be in Him and in His same image and walk as He walks in His same light, perfect even as God in heaven is [perfect.

I know a priest that teaches theology and speaks about 7 languages and he also does not see purgatory in the NT.
Another priest (yeah, I know a few priests) told me God loves us so He gave us purgatory.
Take your pick.
I agree.

Looks to me all these priests has are concepts with no reality from God Himself. One can speak 20 languages and still not have received in them the God of heaven as your own disposition and walk in it as He walks in it, perfect holy pure and without sin.

Problem with the assumption...
but so were Enoch and Elijah.
You don't have a problem with them being taken up without dying?
The IC I agree with.
Perfect Jesus in a perfect body.

Everyone who receives from God His same Spirit of mind, dies of self in their own beliefs for a god, and become like Him and in His same image. Not many are willing to give top their beliefs for a god to receive from God Himself. All these have its a belief for a god and one can believe anything about a god, but it is another matter when GHod Himself come to you and open in you who He is and all of His heaven in you.

The Apostolic Fathers and the ECFs believed it's Jesus' body.
Check out John 6:53.
Check out the Greek meaning of EAT in that one verse.
Interesting.

Beliefs are not real, only speculating conjured from ignorance for who God really is.

The NT does teach a hierarchy.
At the top were 5 Popes.
Then 1.
Does he have authority?
I guess.
But this last one sure had many Bishops and Priests mad at home.
They publicaly denounced some of his WRITINGS and would not follow his "rules".

At the bottom were five popes, at the top is supposed to be you where God Himself come to you, for He is at your door knocking this very hour waiting for you to open it and let Him in and ion that He will come to you, and sup with you and be in you. Rev 3:20. But you are not going to open that door are you? You have 5 Popes that you hear and even pay them to hear their gods for you.

You are exactly as these in Exodus 20:19: And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Long story...
No problem here.
Anyway, it's wasted breath with you and it would take too long.
I'll just say that it was OK at the beginning...
no longer OK today.

God is the same yesterday as He is today and will be the same tomorrow, for God is Love and man is the kingdom in which he lives. Noting has changed sense Adam he was the first to recognize who God really is and became like Him to know this different from mans carnal ideas for a god and God Himself revealing Himself in man. Noting has changed at all concerning God in man.

Takes some attention from Jesus.
I'll have to agree.

Yes all of these denominations from Catholics to Muslims all takes away from who Jesus said he was in Goid and that you should have the very same fro God as he received from Him in Matt 3:16. And here is who Jesus said he was in God and that you should be the very same in his god who sent him to show you Gods way for you to be.

read who Jesus said he was in God, Most went even read it at all. for they do not believe Jesus in who he said he was in God and actually falsely accuse him of being God even though he is very clear who his God is.

And knowing you in what you say, you won't adhere to anything Jesus said of himself and his God who sent him. For your statement was, Mary gave birth to God

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Yuck.
St. Anthony's tongue in a beautiful church in Padova.
But hubby and I skipped that part.
Those old Christians were very ignorant....
they needed PROOF.

A building is not a church at all. Gods church is any man who has received in its Himself to have his same Spirit of mind and walk in it as He walks in it no different at all.

A way to teach the story of Jesus.
Exorcists say it's the most feared prayer by satan.
Guess you don't believe in exorcists either.

The only way to teach the story of Jesus is copy and past who he said he was in God.

Hmmm. What's this all about?

Holy water is only mans ploy to regulate people they can dupe into believing it is something special.

Give her a break.
She bore God.

She bore God, Mary did? So the God Who is a Spirit who came to Mary, the same One who came to Adam in Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses , Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room, impregnated her then gave birth to Himself? Tell us how that works!

 

[nedsk]

.

Rather, your faith is not my faith. I follow Jesus Christ - not "early church fathers."

Meanwhile, a plethora of "water baptists" continue to stubbornly "defend" their dogma with sophistry and pettifogging in "Bible Study Forums."

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Students of "early church fathers" are out; workmen are in.


I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

*received text, aka Textus Receptus = the vernacular (common) bible of the day, given to the common man of the day, in the common language of the day, to do one thing: evangelize the world.

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
.

I don't follow the early church fathers but the early church Father's give us a picture into what the earliest says of the post patristic church were like. The fathers defended against heresies the very faith you currently claim to be following yet you don't even know what they defended. It's sad to watch you people.

 

[GodsGrace]

.

Rather, your faith is not my faith. I follow Jesus Christ - not "early church fathers."

Meanwhile, a plethora of "water baptists" continue to stubbornly "defend" their dogma with sophistry and pettifogging in "Bible Study Forums."

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Students of "early church fathers" are out; workmen are in.


I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

*received text, aka Textus Receptus = the vernacular (common) bible of the day, given to the common man of the day, in the common language of the day, to do one thing: evangelize the world.

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
.

Here's the problem doctrox....
You THINK you have the truth....
other members think THEY have the truth.

How many truths do you think there are?

Perhaps YOU are teaching another gospel?

But you don't care to discuss...
you just like to spew out your comments....
do not pay any attention to what others state....
and continue in your ignorance.

It would do you good to know what the ECFs taught...
they taught what Jesus taught...

Not what some taught recently...
Like Luther, Calvin, Zwigli and others.

Post some scripture or stop with the demeaning talk to other members.

 

[GodsGrace]

The only way one can know what the Bible is about is if God Himself come to you and open Who He is and all of His heaven in you. Outside of that it all is pure speculations, beliefs. Not even Jesus cpouild escape that fact proven in Matt 3:16.


That is the problem in Christaindom, everyone has their own beliefs for a god instead of receiving from God Himself who He is and who you should be in Him and in His same image and walk as He walks in His same light, perfect even as God in heaven is [perfect.


Looks to me all these priests has are concepts with no reality from God Himself. One can speak 20 languages and still not have received in them the God of heaven as your own disposition and walk in it as He walks in it, perfect holy pure and without sin.


Everyone who receives from God His same Spirit of mind, dies of self in their own beliefs for a god, and become like Him and in His same image. Not many are willing to give top their beliefs for a god to receive from God Himself. All these have its a belief for a god and one can believe anything about a god, but it is another matter when GHod Himself come to you and open in you who He is and all of His heaven in you.


Beliefs are not real, only speculating conjured from ignorance for who God really is.


At the bottom were five popes, at the top is supposed to be you where God Himself come to you, for He is at your door knocking this very hour waiting for you to open it and let Him in and ion that He will come to you, and sup with you and be in you. Rev 3:20. But you are not going to open that door are you? You have 5 Popes that you hear and even pay them to hear their gods for you.

You are exactly as these in Exodus 20:19: And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.


God is the same yesterday as He is today and will be the same tomorrow, for God is Love and man is the kingdom in which he lives. Noting has changed sense Adam he was the first to recognize who God really is and became like Him to know this different from mans carnal ideas for a god and God Himself revealing Himself in man. Noting has changed at all concerning God in man.


Yes all of these denominations from Catholics to Muslims all takes away from who Jesus said he was in Goid and that you should have the very same fro God as he received from Him in Matt 3:16. And here is who Jesus said he was in God and that you should be the very same in his god who sent him to show you Gods way for you to be.

read who Jesus said he was in God, Most went even read it at all. for they do not believe Jesus in who he said he was in God and actually falsely accuse him of being God even though he is very clear who his God is.

And knowing you in what you say, you won't adhere to anything Jesus said of himself and his God who sent him. For your statement was, Mary gave birth to God

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.






A building is not a church at all. Gods church is any man who has received in its Himself to have his same Spirit of mind and walk in it as He walks in it no different at all.


The only way to teach the story of Jesus is copy and past who he said he was in God.



Holy water is only mans ploy to regulate people they can dupe into believing it is something special.

She bore God, Mary did? So the God Who is a Spirit who came to Mary, the same One who came to Adam in Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses , Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room, impregnated her then gave birth to Himself? Tell us how that works!

1. If the bible is God's word.....and I'm not saying it isn't....then why do we not all agree??

2. There are some that know MUCH MORE than any of us here ever will. You can disagree with them if you wish. I don't agree with all either...but at least I respect what they know that I do not know.

3. So how do YOU receive God's truth since you seem to know it and others do not.

4. Why are you posting Jesus' words to me? What have you ASSUMED about me?

5. A bldg is not a church. So what do YOU call that bldg down the street where service/Mass is held every Sunday?

6. Mary did not birth God?
WHO did Mary birth?


Please reply with scripture...
personal opinions are not worth too much in theological discussions.

 

[GodsGrace]

The "church fathers" created this false list i showed you.
You dont care that NONE OF THIS man made false nonsense, on the list is found in any bible, and that speaks volumes about you.



The NT says that "the traditions of man, have made the word of God = nothing". "(of none effect)".

The NT also states

2 Thess 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.


2 Thess 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


1 Cor 11:1-2
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.


The TRADITIONS that come from THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST are VALID traditions.
NOT those of men....of which we have many...of which YOU teach some that were NEVER in the "church".

And this is proven by Mary Cult addicts, who read that almost nothing this cult teaches about mary, and water, and all of the rest, is found in word of God, and YOU dont care.
This is typical of a Marycult "type".

Its pathetic.

What is pathetic Behold,,,,is that you don't even care to understand what the church you so hate actually teaches.

If you UNDERSTOOD and disagreed it would be respectful on your part.

but to be so hateful is not a Christianly act on your part.

Is Mary the mother of God?
If not...
WHO did Mary birth?

Why do you accept Enoch being taken into heaven without a physical death
and not Mary?

WHY do you never reply to questions but just spew your hatred?

 

[GodsGrace]

The Bible has "problems" with Mary's false assumption.
How do you know? Because this never happened in any bible.
So, that you would try to compare it to Enoch and Elijah where this is taught in all bibles., is typical MaryCult propaganda.

Cute.
So it's OK because some guy in the OT stated it's true....or maybe God actually came down from heaven and actually wrote the OT....
but because some in the NT times stated this about Mary it cannot be true because YOU hate the CC so much.

If Jesus literally meant "eat" his body........ then during the last Supper He would have cut off a piece of His body and bled into a cup and passed it all around.

How dumb do we want to get?

Jesus said THIS IS MY BODY.....the bread.
And then they ate it.

And something else......the Bible forbids eating human flesh, and drinking human blood, and He would the first one to know it.

I think God can do anything He wants to do.
You put limits on God?

But dont let that Bible get in the way of your MaryCult theology,

Wish YOU understood all of the bible.
Seems you only understand the scripture you WANT to understand.
This is even worse!

No Popes in any Bible.
This "Peter Pope" nonsense was created by the Mary Cult Church Fathers.

Try learning some early church history.
Stop speaking out of ignorance.

Some people are demon possessed.
Some people are """" bewitched"""" by a "doctrine of Devils'".. .Paul teaches.

Catholics.
Calvinists
Mormons
JW

Just to name a few.""

Add to the list:
OSAS
OBEYING GOD IS NOT NECESSARY
WE DON'T NEED TO BE BAPTIZED, AS JESUS DIRECTED
WE DON'T NEED TO CONFESS OUR SINS
and more strange stuff I hear on these Forums.

Mary is Special., but She's not "co-author of Salvation.

Who said she is?

And she didnt fly to heaven in her dead body.

Maybe not. How to know for sure??
If I can't prove she did...
You can't prove she didn't.

And she had other childern

Maybe.
Maybe they belonged to Joseph.
No way to know for sure.

 

[Gary Mac]

Gary, you posses the 'spirit of anti-Christ', likewise the 'spirit of error' the ones Biblically spoken of.

Anyone who refuses the same Spirit of God, His mind, be in you who was in Christ Jesus is antichrist. As for me God came to me by the very same Spirit that He is who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and open in us who He is and all of His heaven in us.

You however, and is very evident in what you say, The same Mind who was in Christ Jesus from God Himself and in me and in us all who has received Him, was antichrist.

You've posted 'mistakes' and we've exposed it and corrected you to come out of it and rebuke the 'false spirit'.

Yes same mistakes Jesus was accused of by the same as you for the very same reason.

But you seem to be relentless continuing in that 'spiritual fallacy' and causing disturbance and unrest among us.

Well if God who is a Spirit, knowledge of mind, is a fallacy for you, then you never will know the truth at all will you. Truth is God is a Spirit and man is the kingdom sin which He lives. Luke 17:20-21, is the truth, but not for you that is for sure.

You only choose to be ignorant for who God is is all.

Am just going to leave you be, it's a waste of time going back and forth with you, no thanks.

Anytime the ways of Jesus in God who is a Spirit and you are supposed to have the same is a waste of time is a choice to stay ignorant of Him that obviously you have chosen to be.

 

[Gary Mac]

1. If the bible is God's word.....and I'm not saying it isn't....then why do we not all agree??

Because most do not believe what it says and form their own opinions about it Fromm ignorance for what it says. the Bible is not an historical document, it is a religious document and to follow the instructions in it one will gain the hidden knowledge, the invisible one, in themselves, and when one does follow it and see who the author of it really is, ye shall be like Him yourself. 1 John 3:2 Same mind be in you who was in Christ Jesus that was opened in him when he was about 30 years old proven in Matt 3:16.

2. There are some that know MUCH MORE than any of us here ever will. You can disagree with them if you wish. I don't agree with all either...but at least I respect what they know that I do not know.

You can know everything God knows by receiving in you the very same Spirit, mind, knowledge, that only God Himself can open in you. Most refuse Him and rather dictate to their gods who they are, what they are, what the can and cannot do.

3. So how do YOU receive God's truth since you seem to know it and others do not.

Same way Adam did in Gen 3:22, same way Abraham did, same way Moses did, same way Mary did, same way Jesus did in Matt 3:16, same way 120 in an upper room did, by My Spirit says the lord. Spirit = mind of.

4. Why are you posting Jesus' words to me? What have you ASSUMED about me?

It is easy to see who one is of by their own testimponies. If they do not have the very same testimony of themselves in God as Jesus did and walk as He walks in it in Gods same light of mind, then they have conjured their own doctrines for a god.

5. A bldg is not a church. So what do YOU call that bldg down the street where service/Mass is held every Sunday?

That building is just a building Mande by man, Gods church doesn't come with observation, it is with you, or is supposed to be. Luke 17 :20-21.

6. Mary did not birth God?
WHO did Mary birth?

Jesus, son of man.

Please reply with scripture...
personal opinions are not worth too much in theological discussions.

You are correct in that and here is who Jesus said he was in God that he called Father. Very few believe what Jesus said of himself at all. Few who has found his ways for the same mind, Spirit, be in them who was in Christ Jesus.

I have asked this of many here who this was Jesus spoke of without editing in their own ideas for what he said, and not one can answer who it was. They do not know who it was Jesus spoke of or they would have replied.

Can you tell us who this was Jesus spoke of if Jesus was god as these obviously falsley accuse him of being God just as the Jews did?

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Because most do not believe what it says and form their own opinions about it Fromm ignorance for what it says. the Bible is not an historical document, it is a religious document and to follow the instructions in it one will gain the hidden knowledge, the invisible one, in themselves, and when one does follow it and see who the author of it really is, ye shall be like Him yourself. 1 John 3:2 Same mind be in you who was in Christ Jesus that was opened in him when he was about 30 years old proven in Matt 3:16.

Difficult to know if you are forming your own position since you do not post it.

You can know everything God knows by receiving in you the very same Spirit, mind, knowledge, that only God Himself can open in you. Most refuse Him and rather dictate to their gods who they are, what they are, what the can and cannot do.

I think I agree.
Not sure.

Same way Adam did in Gen 3:22, same way Abraham did, same way Moses did, same way Mary did, same way Jesus did in Matt 3:16, same way 120 in an upper room did, by My Spirit says the lord. Spirit = mind of.

Again...you're very vague.
Maybe we come to believe by the Spirit...
but if an atheist asked you HOW one comes to believe,
THIS would be your answer?

It is easy to see who one is of by their own testimponies. If they do not have the very same testimony of themselves in God as Jesus did and walk as He walks in it in Gods same light of mind, then they have conjured their own doctrines for a god.

Here I do believe I agree...
IF what you're saying is that we are to obey God...
which some do not believe to be so important since they are saved...
they will always be saved NO MATTER WHAT.
I do not find this in scripture.

That building is just a building Mande by man, Gods church doesn't come with observation, it is with you, or is supposed to be. Luke 17 :20-21.

Well it IS church Gary Mac.
It's up to YOU to distinguish between a church made of concrete and stone, and one made by flesh and blood.

Jesus, son of man.

So Jesus was NOT God?
What do you mean by SON OF MAN?

You are correct in that and here is who Jesus said he was in God that he called Father. Very few believe what Jesus said of himself at all. Few who has found his ways for the same mind, Spirit, be in them who was in Christ Jesus.

I have asked this of many here who this was Jesus spoke of without editing in their own ideas for what he said, and not one can answer who it was. They do not know who it was Jesus spoke of or they would have replied.

I THINK it might be because they don't understand your question.
You speak a language all your own.

Can you tell us who this was Jesus spoke of if Jesus was god as these obviously falsley accuse him of being God just as the Jews did?

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Jesus is speaking of God Father.
Does this mean that John 1:14 is not true?

John 1:1 speaks of the word being God.

John 1:14 speaks of the word becoming flesh.

WHO/WHAT is THE WORD?
Did it become flesh or not?

You have Christian written under your avatar.
Are you Christian or not??

 

[BreadOfLife]

What fake "subsequent" theology did the Mary Cult "church fathers" , make up, that is not found in any bible, and therefore was not given to them by any Apostle's Letters.

All These.. and many more but this will do for now.
-
1.. Sacried Tradition
The Catholic Church views their own Sacred Tradition as their most important source of revelation, meaning that a good majority of Catholic teachings are not found in any verse in any Bible. This contrasts with most Protestant denominations that emphasize sola scriptura(Scripture alone).

Not only is this patently FALSE – it is as ignorant and stupid as everything else you say on the topic . . .

Just a quick browse through the Catechism would show you that virtually EVERY paragraph in there is supported with multiple verses of Scripture. Many Traditions are also implicitly based in Scripture – such as Infant Baptism (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16).

Here’s another one for you, Einstein: The Canon of Scripture is a Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church. Yup – YOUR Bible was put together and declared canonical by Catholics. The Bible doesn’t tell us which Books belong in it.

2.) . Purgatory
The concept of Purgatory, a state of purification after death for those who die in God's grace but still need cleansing, is not found in the Bible. The MaryCult also prays for souls in purgatory, which again is not found in any verse in any Bible.

3.) Mary's Assumption and Immaculate Conception:
These are Mary Cult doctrines that developed over time and are not found in any verse in any Bible. The Assumption refers to Mary's bodily ascension into heaven, (in her dead body, she flew there).....while the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without original sin, which is another MaryCult false doctrine that is not found in any verse in any Bible.

4.). Transubstantiation:
This doctrine, central to the man made MaryCult theology regarding the ""Eucharist"", states that the bread and wine offered in the Mass are transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ. This specific explanation of transubstantiation is not found in any Bible verse in any Bible.

5.) The Authority of the Pope:
The Catholic Church believes and teaches that the Pope, as the successor of Saint Peter, has a unique authority as the head of the Church, a role not found in the Bible, in any verse, in any bible. The MarCult in fact beleive and teach that He is the mouthpiece of God, Himself. This is not found in any verse in any Bible.

I cold DESTROY every one of your arguments above – but YOU need to answer a question first:
Can YOU show me where the BIBLE says that everything we believe must be written down in the Bible?

Let me know when you’re ready to answer that question . . . .

6.) . Other FALSE Practices and Teachings:
Infant Baptism for Salvation

Infant Baptism for Salvation
The Apostles Baptized ENTIRE families (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16).

Ummm, last time I checked “entire families” included babies and little kids.

Veneration of Saints

Psalm 116:15
"Precious in the eyes of the Lord is the death of his holy ones."

A PERFECT example of veneration of the dead. So, are YOU against memorials and tributes? Where does the Bible forbid this??

Removing and collecting Dead Body Parts ( RELICS)

In we read:
2 Kings 13:20-21
“while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders so they threw the man’s body into Elisha’s tomb. When the body touched Elisha’s bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.”

This is a PERFECT example of the power of God working through relics . . .

Praying the Rosary

Praying the “Sinner’s Prayer” isn’t found in the Bible either.

The use of Holy Water

That the 5th Century document, Apostolic Constitutions, credits the use of Holy
Water to St. Matthew.

Feast days for Mary

YOU sound like the Judaizers in Acts 15 . . .

Paul writes:
Col. 2:17
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath

Do YOU celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc.?
OR – do YOU feel that this if “forbidden”?

 

[Gary Mac]

Difficult to know if you are forming your own position since you do not post it.

I dont know what you mean but I dont have an opinion, all I know is who Jesus said he was in God and we are supposed to be the very same in God. That isnt an opinion, either one is the same in God as Jesus was our you are not. You in the Father and the Father in you as one as Jesus prayed to his God for you to be in John 17 or you are not.

That isnt an opinion it is a decision to be or not to be.

I think I agree.
Not sure.

Again...you're very vague.
Maybe we come to believe by the Spirit...
but if an atheist asked you HOW one comes to believe,
THIS would be your answer?

It isnt a matter of believing, one can believe anything about a god so obvious in all these different denominations beliefs about a god and formed laws to regulate those beliefs. But is a completely different matter when God himself come to the individuals as He did in all of these few read of and open in them who He is and all of the place that He resides in man to be in His same image of Sprit, mind, knowlledge that He is and walk in it as He walks in it.

Here I do believe I agree...
IF what you're saying is that we are to obey God...
which some do not believe to be so important since they are saved...
they will always be saved NO MATTER WHAT.
I do not find this in scripture.

Salvation is Gods same Mind, or Spirit the mind is referred to, be your own mind, Spirit.

There is no other salvation to be had from the God who simply is Love and man is the temple of Him, the place he resides in His kingdom that man is. Jesus was clear in that in Luke 17:20-21. But sadly few even believe Jesus in what he says about it, they make Jesus a god they can relate to to be in their own image instead.

Well it IS church Gary Mac.
It's up to YOU to distinguish between a church made of concrete and stone, and one made by flesh and blood.

It is up to everyone. If a Church building is full of Jewish beliefs, or Mormon beliefs, or Jehovah witness beliefs, or Catholic beliefs, or COCs, Lds, AOGs. that building is not God church at all, it is full of mans laws to regulate a god they can control.

Gods church is anyone who has received from God Himself His same disposition of mind, Spirit, which simply is Love and made to be perfect by the Spirit that God is, Matt 5:48. And th only thing on this planet that is perfect and God is, is Love, and never changes, is the same yesterday as is today and will be the same tomorrow. Everything else changes, everything except Love and man is the temple of Him, Again -- Luke 17:20-21

So Jesus was NOT God?

Absolutely not and here is what he said about his God who sent him. Most do not even consider who Jesus said he was in God.

If Jesus was God, then read this from Jesus quotes and tell us plainly without adding to or taking away from what Jesus said of himself and his God who sent him. Truth is most do not follow Jesus at all in who he said he was in God. They are as the jews and actually accuse him of blaspheme making himself God in spite of who he said he was in God.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

What do you mean by SON OF MAN?

Jesus was born of a woman just as you and I, are not you son of man, and d you not have a genealogy ? Jesus did from the linage of David.

The earthly father of Yosef(Joseph), the husband of Mary, was Heli, it is told at Luke 3:23. There is some confusion on this topic which you may be aware of or may not be aware of and is why you’re asking this question.

There is a mistranslation in modern Bibles from the Greek which includes the KJV, in the 1st chapter of Matthew, it mistranslates "father" to "husband". Due to this simple mistranslation, people for years have been confused concerning the genealogies of the Messiah, Mary, and Joseph, and you can see many people making up a lot of stuff to try and feel better about the confusion.

This may have even helped cause some people to lose faith in the scriptures because of the modern Christians confusing this verse and making it look like the Gospels do not know the genealogies.

This mistranslation can be major because this is the very start of the gospels, and it can potentially lead people into thinking that it says the Messiah is not the son of David, when it's known that the Messiah would be from David's line.
Also, the mistranslation causes a contradiction with Matthew 1:17. Verse 17 states that there are 14 generations from Abraham to David, then from David until the Babylon captivity are 14 generations, and then from the Babylon captivity to the Messiah there are 14 generations;

Matthew 1:17 "So all the generations from Abraham to David are 14 generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are 14 generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Messiah are 14 generations"
This actually helps us confirm the mistranslation, and when the mistranslation is corrected, there is absolutely no contradiction. Joseph was Jesus father, not translated as husband.

I THINK it might be because they don't understand your question.
You speak a language all your own.

It is only foreign language to those who cannot relate to who Jesus said he was in God. All I can do is copy and past who Jesus said he was in God and obviously that is foreign to their understanding.

Jesus is speaking of God Father.
Does this mean that John 1:14 is not true?

It is indeed true. Gods word becomes flesh in us all who will receive from God Himself. His word become who we are, not what we believe about it. God word isnt written on stone nor in ink, it is written in the minds of man who God has come and renewed that mind to think in His terms for life in Love.

John 1:1 speaks of the word being God.

Yes John 1 is all about you and who are you in it.

John 1:14 speaks of the word becoming flesh.

Exactly -- Has His word become your flesh?

WHO/WHAT is THE WORD?
Did it become flesh or not?

Depends on if you have received from God the same word as Jesus received from Him in Matt 3:16 where a new heaven and earth was opened to him. You know very well if the same has happened in you or not with that same renewing, word, of mind.

You have Christian written under your avatar.
Are you Christian or not??

I dont see where I have Christian written under my avatar. See where it says faith = Christian. I painted a self portrait of me and if someone asks me if I am Christian, I always reply, I am a son of God if that is what you mean, His child.

The term Christian has been so abused by religious mind the identity of actually being that person of Christ who is anointed of God is lost. Ironic is, the world can see though these hooked on their own laws to govern their religions and call it christianity and those claiming christianity can not even see what they are doing. The world wants no part of these make believers, they want something real and sadly our churches, or better defined as denominations, only gives them las as in you bust believe this or that and do this or that and condemnation instead of love to be like the God of it.

So very simple yet man has made their beliefs so complicated, I dont even want to be part of it nor did Jesus and walks away from it even from the Rabbi that he was of it. And Ironic is, that religious belief that he once taught as rabbi, is the very ones who has him crucified for blaspheme when Gods word came to him and changed his whole outlook on heaven and God in Matt 3;16.

 

[Behold]

Try learning some early church history.

You want me to learn your MaryCult history and then come to a forum and teach it, like you try to do?

Sorry, but God didnt call me to be deceived by the MaryCult.

Ive a better idea.....I'll learn your Mary Cult history better then you can ever learn it, and then i'll post its lies that you can't defend with the word of God..
And this helps people who are not deceived, to stay away from it.
-
-

 

[Gary Mac]

You want me to learn your MaryCult history and then come to a forum and teach it, like you try to do?

Sorry, but God didnt call me to be deceived by the MaryCult.

Ive a better idea.....I'll learn your Mary Cult history better then you can ever learn it, and then i'll post its lies that you can't defend with the word of God..
And this helps people who are not deceived, to stay away from it.
-
-

View attachment 68214

I always ask these, if Jesus was God and Mary gave birth to God and Jesus being God came to his mother impregnated her then gave birth to himself. Tell us how that works?

 

[Behold]

Jesus being God came to his mother impregnated her then gave birth to himself. Tell us how that works?

"God is A Spirit"......the "Holy Spirit" and God's Holy Spirit created Jesus, inside Mary's womb.

Jesus is then virgin born as the God man.......fully God and fully Man.

 

[doctrox]

I don't follow the early church fathers but the early church Father's give us a picture into what the earliest says of the post patristic church were like.

A "picture"? Pictures are images; the discerning know to avoid images.

The fathers defended against heresies the very faith you currently claim to be following yet you don't even know what they defended.

I pray I don't countenance any of "the fathers'" (or your) humanistic drivel.

It's sad to watch you people.

Your "early church fathers" are dead. Ad hominems is all you got; that is "sad."

 

[doctrox]

Here's the problem doctrox....
You THINK you have the truth....
other members think THEY have the truth.

Rather, "the problem" is that you think you have something worthy to expound to us. But you are bankrupt because you don't read your Holy Bible.

It would do you good to know what the ECFs taught...they taught what Jesus taught...

Not what some taught recently...
Like Luther, Calvin, Zwigli and others.

If you would be regularly reading the Holy Bible, we wouldn't be having this tit-tat. Without your "ECF's", you have nothing to bring to the table but hot air.

Post some scripture or stop with the demeaning talk to other members.

You've already been challenged previously in this thread, apparently above your pay grade, with scriptures posted here and here and elsewhere. You've been unable whatsoever to reply to the scriptural imperatives. This is a Bible Study forum, not a Debate forum.

What is "demeaning" to us is your heretical chitchat about your beloved fathers and lack of scriptural knowledge and discernment. I don't cast pearls before swine, and I don't suffer fools. Get used to it.

It would do you good to know what the ECFs taught...
they taught what Jesus taught...

...which is what you're supposed to be doing i.e. declaring "what Jesus taught."

The following is your OP:

This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

There might be other understandings that are not listed.

I tend to go with either natural birth or baptismal water.
Either can seem correct to me.

Please state what you believe and why.
Appreciated...

Methinks someone has taken a bit too much liberty...