THIS VERSE IS NOT ABOUT THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH

[IndianaRob]

No, I am not. I am trying... to get you to read and understand the simplicity of the 'written' Bible Scripture.

I'll make it simple:

In Matthew 23:27 Jesus is giving an analogy, a metaphor. All languages use analogies or metaphors to represent something using an expression. Like "stubborn as a mule", or "blind as a bat", etc. Those are analogies, one thing unrelated used to represent another thing.

Like Jesus did there in Matthew 23:27 about the spiritually blind scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus compared them to whited tombs that appear nice on the outside, but inside, referring to their minds and hearts, they were like dead men's bones. It means their spirit was 'spiritually' dead inside their flesh. They were without Christ, and thus without The Holy Spirit. But those who are "born again", their spirit inside their flesh is what is born again, by The Holy Spirit.

Thus the meaning of the "carcase" of Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37. Someone who is LIKE a dead carcase means they are without Christ, spiritually dead. Even a believer on Jesus that falls away from Jesus, and instead worships something else, can become a spiritually dead person.

I don’t see how you figure that. Where ever the dead body is the eagles will be gathered literally means what it says.

One could argue that the verse is talking about literal eagles gather at a dead body and speculate that they’re gathered to eat the dead body.

Or one could could say spiritual eagles are gathered to a literal dead body. I don’t think there’s a spiritual version of a dead body in the Bible.

You can’t just make it mean whatever you want it to mean. You have to stay with what the words say and determine are the words speaking of spiritual things or are the words speaking of literal things. That’s what rightly dividing is - is it spiritual or is literal because the Bible is full of both.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

[Mat 24:40-41 KJV] 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

This verse is not about the rapture.

Agreed
there are two possibilities . heaven has never been the ultimate destination ,the earth is ,and will always be mankind's home. there is the promise to remove the evil ,leaving the earth to those that will live to each others benefit . the ones taken don't go anywhere . it simply means they're terminated . killed even as a hunter takes a deer .

the other possibility is referring to those that are picked ,asked to serve in the kingdom serving with Jesus as judges . they are then 'taken along' with the others that also where asked ,invited to serve .

 

[Doug]

Lol
Jesus said normal life, commerce, planning for the future, marriage,everyday life. Is the setting. Your setting is opposite the bible.
He also said before judgement.

So no. That model you are presenting is in no way plausible.
Literally impossible.
One taken, one left is the rapture.

Your model has half the planet righteous, half wicked.
Farfetched and easily ruled out on 4 or 5 points.

When Jesus said his coming would be as Noah and the flood he meant that the unbelievers would think life would go on as normal........they would be oblivious to his coming. This is not speaking of the events right before his coming...........he is speaking of the time period right before the tribulation........at the end of the tribulation he will return

Below Paul reflects the conditions before the tribulation

[1Th 5:2-3 KJV] 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[Davy]

Re read it. Stop leaving out Jesus words.
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Makes a difference.
Your omissions are reckless.

I left NOTHING OUT. I even showed you the OTHER VERSION of Jesus' answer to His disciple's question in Luke 17:37!

And if you think I pulled the Matthew 24:28 out of the context of that Matthew 24 Chapter, then you show that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the Matthew 24:28 verse and the Luke 17:37 are both the SAME answer Jesus gave. The only... difference between the two verses is ONE WORD, the word "carcase", then no wonder you struggle with understanding God's written Word!


All you did in the above was to pull out a different section of Scripture that OMITS the other version of the same answer Jesus gave below in Luke 17:37...

Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

 

[rebuilder 454]

I left NOTHING OUT. I even showed you the OTHER VERSION of Jesus' answer to His disciple's question in Luke 17:37!

And if you think I pulled the Matthew 24:28 out of the context of that Matthew 24 Chapter, then you show that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the Matthew 24:28 verse and the Luke 17:37 are both the SAME answer Jesus gave. The only... difference between the two verses is ONE WORD, the word "carcase", then no wonder you struggle with understanding God's written Word!


All you did in the above was to pull out a different section of Scripture that OMITS the other version of the same answer Jesus gave below in Luke 17:37...

Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

Lol
BEFORE THE FLOOD, ONE TAKEN, ONE LEFT BEHIND.
BEFORE THE FLOOD ONE TAKEN IN NORMAL LIFE AND EVERYDAY LIFE

BEFORE THE FLOOD, ONE LEFT BEHIND IN NORMAL LIFE AND EVERYDAY LIFE.

TRY real reading for the first time.
You LEFT IT OUT HOW MANY TIMES?????

A BUNCH.
Stop leaving out Jesus words.

 

[rebuilder 454]

When Jesus said his coming would be as Noah and the flood he meant that the unbelievers would think life would go on as normal........they would be oblivious to his coming. This is not speaking of the events right before his coming...........he is speaking of the time period right before the tribulation........at the end of the tribulation he will return

Below Paul reflects the conditions before the tribulation

[1Th 5:2-3 KJV] 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Lol
Postrib setting is OPPOSITE.
THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND 4 HORSEMAN ARE RIPPING the earth and mankind to pieces.

The normal life setting alone is disastrous to your position.

It is YOUR DOCTRINE THAT DECLARES there is no normal life or commerce at your misplaced rapture.

Ask yourself why you leave out Jesus vivid clear words.
Red flags big time

 

[rebuilder 454]

One taken, one left.

Postrib doctrine....half the world population is righteous and half is wicked.

That is what you end up with.
A 100% quandary.
There is zero chance half the world is wicked and half righteous.
Flat out bizarre.

Then Jesus tells who to be ready?
The wicked????
The wicked are watching for Jesus???
Mat 24
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

ONLY THE PRETRIB RAPTURE FITS.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Mat 25
Here are those taken:
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh
The wicked are told to watch and becready to go?????
The wicked are always taken first????
SMH

 

[rebuilder 454]

I left NOTHING OUT. I even showed you the OTHER VERSION of Jesus' answer to His disciple's question in Luke 17:37!

And if you think I pulled the Matthew 24:28 out of the context of that Matthew 24 Chapter, then you show that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the Matthew 24:28 verse and the Luke 17:37 are both the SAME answer Jesus gave. The only... difference between the two verses is ONE WORD, the word "carcase", then no wonder you struggle with understanding God's written Word!


All you did in the above was to pull out a different section of Scripture that OMITS the other version of the same answer Jesus gave below in Luke 17:37...

Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

QUOTE
""I left NOTHING OUT. I even showed you the OTHER VERSION of Jesus' answer to His disciple's question in Luke 17:37!
And if you think I pulled the Matthew 24:28 out of the context of that Matthew 24 Chapter, then you show that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the Matthew 24:28 verse and the Luke 17:37 are both the SAME"""

...then proceeds to leave out Jesus words again.
Lol

 

[Davy]

I don’t see how you figure that. Where ever the dead body is the eagles will be gathered literally means what it says.

Jesus' answer is... a metaphor. He is NOT speaking of real dead bodies. For the passage to be 'literal', that is what would be required, that the dead "carcase" idea being literal.

Jesus was talking about the SPIRITUALLY DEAD with the "carcase" idea, those who reject Him for another. It's like the opposite of the "chaste virgin" idea by Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 11.

Paul said he wants to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". That is meant about remaining faithful waiting for Christ's future coming instead of falling away to another. It's actually a metaphor first used by The Heavenly Father back in The Old Testament prophets, like Ezekiel 16 and Isaiah 54.

One could argue that the verse is talking about literal eagles gather at a dead body and speculate that they’re gathered to eat the dead body.

When the Matthew 24:28 "carcase" word is noted in that version of Jesus' answer of Luke 17:37, then His meaning should become very easy to grasp. He was pointing to those who do NOT remain faithful waiting for His coming, but instead they go to another and become as a spiritually dead carcase where the fowls will be gathered, feasting on the dead.

Or one could could say spiritual eagles are gathered to a literal dead body. I don’t think there’s a spiritual version of a dead body in the Bible.

You can’t just make it mean whatever you want it to mean. You have to stay with what the words say and determine are the words speaking of spiritual things or are the words speaking of literal things. That’s what rightly dividing is - is it spiritual or is literal because the Bible is full of both.

I agree, we cannot... just make what Jesus said mean whatever we want it to mean. Instead we have to understand the literal Message BEHIND the metaphor He used. At this point, you show that you lack understanding about metaphors, symbols, allegory, etc., used in God's Word. I'd say you struggle a lot with Lord Jesus' parables.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

the possibilities . heaven has never been the ultimate destination ,the earth is ,and will always be mankind's home. there is the promise to remove the evil ,leaving the earth to those that will live to each others benefit . the ones taken don't go anywhere . it simply means they're terminated . killed even as a hunter takes a deer .

the other possibility is referring to those that are picked ,asked to serve in the kingdom serving with Jesus as judges . they are then 'taken along' with the others that also where asked ,invited to serve .
the ones not taken along remain on the earth living under kingdom rule .

 

[rebuilder 454]

Postrib doctrine :
" you see, the wicked are ALWAYS gathered first"
Luke 3
17 whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable
What?????
The nerve of Jesus spreading false doctrine.

Then he did it again in the virgin parable.

Then he did it again with the 144k
Then he did it again in Rev 14:14.

Then he did it again in Luke 17 and mat 24.
And again with noah??????
And again with lot
What. ???????
What was Jesus thinking?????
Maybe you guys can erase all that somehow.

Oh wait...you already do.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Mat 24
Before the flood There will be normal life, and normal activity. buying and selling, and people getting married.
Add in that setting one taken and one left watch and be ready

Some will read it and not skip it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Before the flood, Noah is gathered by God into the Ark. And in that setting there is normal life every day life buying and selling and people getting married.

Ahem...... the wicked are dealt with later

 

[Davy]

Lol
BEFORE THE FLOOD, ONE TAKEN, ONE LEFT BEHIND.
BEFORE THE FLOOD ONE TAKEN IN NORMAL LIFE AND EVERYDAY LIFE

You show you do NOT understand that above idea either!


In the below Scripture WHO ARE THE ONES THAT ARE 'TAKEN'?

Matt 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

The ones TAKEN above are the DECEIVED! not Noah and his family that were sealed inside the Ark!

Moreover, the Ark was upon the height of the flood waters for 150 days before the waters began receding! That represents the period of 'tribulation'!

 

[Davy]

QUOTE
""I left NOTHING OUT. I even showed you the OTHER VERSION of Jesus' answer to His disciple's question in Luke 17:37!
And if you think I pulled the Matthew 24:28 out of the context of that Matthew 24 Chapter, then you show that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the Matthew 24:28 verse and the Luke 17:37 are both the SAME"""

...then proceeds to leave out Jesus words again.
Lol

The above is what CHARLATANS AND LIARS DO. They chop up what someone said instead of properly quoting them. No brainer, since that is exactly the kind of thing those on man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY are taught to do in God's written Word!

 

[Deleted member 26788]

the word taken . taken with ,taken along, taken out, taken meaning to grasp .
depends on the intent of the taker. who is the taker who is being taken gives a clue . first is the collection of the elect,where are they taken to ,but to heaven . they , that are yet living , will be changed taken along with Jesus that came for them. the total number ultimately going is limited ,how many still yet living is not known . they are the ones yet to be taken.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The above is what CHARLATANS AND LIARS DO. They chop up what someone said instead of properly quoting them. No brainer, since that is exactly the kind of thing those on man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY are taught to do in God's written Word!

Again
You leave out Jesus words "before the flood" setting ,and Noah gathered before the flood, and those taken and those left behind are depicted in the before the flood setting.
Then you get all mad at being challenged by Jesus.

 

[rebuilder 454]

the word taken . taken with ,taken along, taken out, taken meaning to grasp .
depends on the intent of the taker. who is the taker who is being taken gives a clue . first is the collection of the elect,where are they taken to ,but to heaven . they , that are yet living , will be changed taken along with Jesus that came for them. the total number ultimately going is limited ,how many still yet living is not known . they are the ones yet to be taken.

The Bible depicts those taken as 1/2 of a group.
The Bible doesn't just haphazdly throw something out there.
So what group is it that half taken from? What is that group in question?
So we can eliminate Earth population.... Because that group of people ( earth's population), is never half Righteous and half wicked ,and it never will be according to the Bible.
I think I'm 1 of 2% of believers that read what is being said there?
But the Holy Spirit thought about the skeptic. Because maybe 13 or 20 sentences later, Jesus again brings up a group that half are taken, and half are left behind.
And again, most believers have no idea what that group is either, and that the 2 are tied together.
It absolutely goes over their heads.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You show you do NOT understand that above idea either!


In the below Scripture WHO ARE THE ONES THAT ARE 'TAKEN'?

Matt 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

The ones TAKEN above are the DECEIVED! not Noah and his family that were sealed inside the Ark!

Moreover, the Ark was upon the height of the flood waters for 150 days before the waters began receding! That represents the period of 'tribulation'!

Then 1/2 are not taken. All are taken.

You painted yourself into a corner.
Once you used a strict analogy, there is no Armageddon, because now you have 8 christians saved, and earth's entire population destroyed, while 8 Christians are Miles above earth in the sky.

Jesus used a partial analogy.
You have muffled it by venturing into a strict analogy that DEMANDS "BEFORE THE FLOOD SETTING" TO BE OMITTED.

Once the ACTUAL components are incorporated, the parts that APPLY can be pieced together.
I do TOTALLY understand your rebellion against the analogy.
Therefore your deal fails hugely.

How can you possibly buy into half the world's population being wicked and removed before the flood?
I mean, I've heard of some absurd theories, but you've painted yourself into a ridiculous corner