Hidden Righteousness and the Shining Light the Two Sides of One Truth.

[Behold]

I want the Link! show me the whole text I dont want a copy paste I want the Link! prove what you say!

The "whole text" is not necessary.

All that is necessary for revelation is for the reader to understand that i was teaching on 'Righteousness".. all this week, on many Threads... and i used this quote many times.

"Righteousness is the ROOT and Holiness is the FRUIT".
Sometimes i wrote it as....>"God's Grace is the ROOT, and Holiness is the FRUIT".

And then......you have posted a Thread this week, that is talking about ""Righteousness"" also....and you borrowed my quote and changed it, but you left in the 2 words that are the most important part, and you didnt even change the order that i used..

You wrote..

edited for clarity)...

"""" Rightesouness is the Root and Shining your light is the Fruit"""


And like i told Truly......i am use to people on many forums, using my Threads as sermons or sunday school lessons, or as commentary chapters or as youtube videos or as study guides.
Im fine with it. Ive no issue with it, Im grateful it happens.... but, when my Quote is changed into Legalism, as you did it on the same Forum, the same week...., then that is a problem that has to be addressed.

Now, have the last word...

 

[Muna]

these em dashes are very useful but you are right many use AI. I hope they do not use it for contents however, AI does not understand spiritual concepts. I use it occasionally for verse searches and it is usually quicker than using a bible software I have.

Blessings.

And here is the ironic part of this, If I feed what you just said about AI and not understanding spiritual concepts, it responds this way

The inability to understand spiritual concepts is not merely an intellectual shortcoming but a spiritual condition. According to 1 Corinthians 2:14, the "natural man," or one who does not have the Holy Spirit, does not accept the things of the Spirit of God because they appear as foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, as they are spiritually discerned. This lack of understanding stems from a spiritual blindness and a mind that is hostile to God, which can only be overcome by the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration and illumination. The natural person operates solely on human reasoning and desires, lacking the spiritual perspective necessary to grasp divine truths. Therefore, the issue is not a lack of intellect but a lack of spiritual enlightenment, which comes through faith in Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. For believers, spiritual understanding is gained through the Holy Spirit, who teaches and reveals the things of God, enabling them to comprehend spiritual matters that are otherwise inaccessible.

But then ask it for the Spiritual interpretation of Sarah and Hagar

The story of Sarah and Hagar is interpreted allegorically in the New Testament, particularly in Galatians 4:21-31, where the apostle Paul uses the two women to represent two covenants and spiritual conditions. Sarah, the free woman and wife of Abraham, symbolizes the New Covenant based on grace and faith, while Hagar, the bondwoman and servant of Sarah, represents the Old Covenant based on the Law and human effort. Paul argues that those who are in Christ are spiritual descendants of Sarah, born of promise and free, whereas those who rely on works of the Law are like Ishmael, the son of Hagar, and remain in spiritual bondage. This allegory underscores the idea that salvation comes through faith in God's promise, not through human achievement.

So how can this hold water is what I would ask, also being aware it scrapes the internet, but appears to discern how to lay a thing out and will often bring forward better answers to biblical questions then you might fall upon on any given thread on a christian forum.

It can put together better posts then most humans oftentimes.

 

[LoveYeshua]

The "whole text" is not necessary.

All that is necessary for revelation is for the reader to understand that i was teaching on 'Righteousness".. all this week, on many Threads... and i used this quote many times.

"Righteousness is the ROOT and Holiness is the FRUIT".
Sometimes i wrote it as....>"God's Grace is the ROOT, and Holiness is the FRUIT".

And then......you have posted a Thread this week, that is talking about ""Righteousness"" also....and you borrowed my quote and changed it, but you left in the 2 words that are the most important part, and you didnt even change the order that i used..

You wrote..

edited for clarity)...

"""" Rightesouness is the Root and Shining your light is the Fruit"""


And like i told Truly......i am use to people on many forums, using my Threads as sermons or sunday school lessons, or as commentary chapters or as youtube videos.
Im fine with it. Ive no issue with it, but, when my teaching is changed into Legalism, as you did it, then that is a problem that has to be addressed.

Prove it by giving the link or say no more.

I forgive you Behold. There is not a mean bone in me, never was. I love everyone, yes even you.

Blessings.

 

[Behold]

Prove it by giving the link or say no more.

I forgive you Behold. There is not a mean bone in me, never was. I love everyone, yes even you.

Blessings.

You took my quote, and rewrote it, and now you forgive me?

Ok, whatever you feel you need to pretend. @LoveYeshua

Here is one of my posts ..

Right. I should have said keep and grow in God's gift of righteousness. The born again naturally keep His commandments, and should run from temptations. Abiding in Christ is the next step towards holiness, which is Christ's ultimate goal for us. "Be holy as I am holy."

God's Righteousness ...that is God's Grace..... is the ROOT and it produces Holiness as the Fruit.

Christians always try to DO Holiness and can't, and that is because Holiness is to "bear the fruit" of being made Righteous.

God's GRACE is the ROOT, and Holiness is the Fruit.

 

[LoveYeshua]

And here is the ironic part of this, If I feed what you just said about AI and not understanding spiritual concepts, it responds this way

The inability to understand spiritual concepts is not merely an intellectual shortcoming but a spiritual condition. According to 1 Corinthians 2:14, the "natural man," or one who does not have the Holy Spirit, does not accept the things of the Spirit of God because they appear as foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, as they are spiritually discerned. This lack of understanding stems from a spiritual blindness and a mind that is hostile to God, which can only be overcome by the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration and illumination. The natural person operates solely on human reasoning and desires, lacking the spiritual perspective necessary to grasp divine truths. Therefore, the issue is not a lack of intellect but a lack of spiritual enlightenment, which comes through faith in Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. For believers, spiritual understanding is gained through the Holy Spirit, who teaches and reveals the things of God, enabling them to comprehend spiritual matters that are otherwise inaccessible.

But then ask it for the Spiritual interpretation of Sarah and Hagar

The story of Sarah and Hagar is interpreted allegorically in the New Testament, particularly in Galatians 4:21-31, where the apostle Paul uses the two women to represent two covenants and spiritual conditions. Sarah, the free woman and wife of Abraham, symbolizes the New Covenant based on grace and faith, while Hagar, the bondwoman and servant of Sarah, represents the Old Covenant based on the Law and human effort. Paul argues that those who are in Christ are spiritual descendants of Sarah, born of promise and free, whereas those who rely on works of the Law are like Ishmael, the son of Hagar, and remain in spiritual bondage. This allegory underscores the idea that salvation comes through faith in God's promise, not through human achievement.

So how can this hold water is what I would ask, also being aware it scrapes the internet, but appears to discern how to lay a thing out and will often bring forward better answers to biblical questions then you might fall upon on any given thread on a christian forum.

It can put together better posts then most humans oftentimes.

Did you ever notice the way Paul used Sarah and Agar differs from the texts in the OT?

 

[LoveYeshua]

You took my quote, and rewrote it, and now you forgive me?

Ok, whatever you feel you need to pretend. @LoveYeshua

I can find my quotes as i wrote the same one a few time to a few members, imcluding Episkopos on His Thread and to 1stcenturylady on hers.
So, it can be done.......and after i posted the link that has my Quotes in it, are you going to forgive me more?
Or will you just continue to lie and ask for "more links"?

Think carefully, before you post.
You really should.

ok, you have no proof that you can provide. Until you do prove I copied say no more, to be polite you are being ridiculous.

Still waiting for that proof.....

 

[Behold]

ok, you have no proof that you can provide. Until you do prove I copied say no more, to be polite you are being ridiculous.

Still waiting for that proof.....

Here is one that i posted to 1st Century Lady, and i posted this same teaching on Righteousness, this week, 15 times.......probably.

Right. I should have said keep and grow in God's gift of righteousness. The born again naturally keep His commandments, and should run from temptations. Abiding in Christ is the next step towards holiness, which is Christ's ultimate goal for us. "Be holy as I am holy."

God's Righteousness ...that is God's Grace..... is the ROOT and it produces Holiness as the Fruit.

Christians always try to DO Holiness and can't, and that is because Holiness is to "bear the fruit" of being made Righteous.

God's GRACE is the ROOT, and Holiness is the Fruit.

 

[Muna]

And like i told Truly......i am use to people on many forums, using my Threads as sermons or sunday school lessons, or as commentary chapters or as youtube videos or as study guides.
Im fine with it. Ive no issue with it, Im grateful it happens.... but, when my Quote is changed into Legalism, as you did it on the same Forum, the same week...., then that is a problem that has to be addressed.

Now, have the last word...

I asked AI on what Both of you said, and when I plugged in

Where does the saying Rightesouness is the Root and Shining your light is the Fruit, comes from (that LoveYeshua posted)

It responded,

The concept that righteousness is the root and shining one's light is the fruit is a metaphorical interpretation derived from biblical teachings, particularly the imagery of fruit-bearing trees and the light of Christ. In the Bible, righteousness is often described as the foundational quality from which good works and a visible life of holiness grow. For example, the "fruit of righteousness" is said to be "through Jesus Christ" and is produced by the Holy Spirit in believers, resulting in good works, honesty, truth, charity, kindness, and meekness. This righteousness is not self-generated but comes from a union with Christ, who is the true vine, and believers are branches that bear fruit only when abiding in Him. The "light" that believers are to shine—referring to their good works and righteous lives—is the visible outcome of this inner righteousness, as stated in Matthew 5:16, where it is said that good works should be seen so that others may glorify God . Thus, the idea that righteousness is the root and shining light is the fruit aligns with the biblical view that a transformed heart (righteousness) naturally produces a life of visible goodness and witness (light)

And then I asked at

Where does the saying God's Grace is the ROOT, and Holiness is the FRUIT come from (that Behold posted?)

It responded.

The saying "God's Grace is the Root, and Holiness is the Fruit" is not a direct quotation from a specific biblical verse but is a theological concept derived from biblical principles and teachings. It reflects the idea that grace is the foundational, life-giving source from which holiness naturally grows as a result.

The concept of grace as the root is supported by the understanding that salvation and spiritual life begin with God's unmerited favor. The Bible teaches that grace is the means by which God saves humanity, as stated in Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves". This grace is the divine initiative that reconciles humanity to God, establishing peace and forgiveness, which are essential for spiritual growth. The root of holiness is thus rooted in this grace, as peace with God is necessary for a holy life to be possible.

So there you both go....

 

[LoveYeshua]

And here is the ironic part of this, If I feed what you just said about AI and not understanding spiritual concepts, it responds this way

The inability to understand spiritual concepts is not merely an intellectual shortcoming but a spiritual condition. According to 1 Corinthians 2:14, the "natural man," or one who does not have the Holy Spirit, does not accept the things of the Spirit of God because they appear as foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, as they are spiritually discerned. This lack of understanding stems from a spiritual blindness and a mind that is hostile to God, which can only be overcome by the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration and illumination. The natural person operates solely on human reasoning and desires, lacking the spiritual perspective necessary to grasp divine truths. Therefore, the issue is not a lack of intellect but a lack of spiritual enlightenment, which comes through faith in Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. For believers, spiritual understanding is gained through the Holy Spirit, who teaches and reveals the things of God, enabling them to comprehend spiritual matters that are otherwise inaccessible.

But then ask it for the Spiritual interpretation of Sarah and Hagar

The story of Sarah and Hagar is interpreted allegorically in the New Testament, particularly in Galatians 4:21-31, where the apostle Paul uses the two women to represent two covenants and spiritual conditions. Sarah, the free woman and wife of Abraham, symbolizes the New Covenant based on grace and faith, while Hagar, the bondwoman and servant of Sarah, represents the Old Covenant based on the Law and human effort. Paul argues that those who are in Christ are spiritual descendants of Sarah, born of promise and free, whereas those who rely on works of the Law are like Ishmael, the son of Hagar, and remain in spiritual bondage. This allegory underscores the idea that salvation comes through faith in God's promise, not through human achievement.

So how can this hold water is what I would ask, also being aware it scrapes the internet, but appears to discern how to lay a thing out and will often bring forward better answers to biblical questions then you might fall upon on any given thread on a christian forum.

It can put together better posts then most humans oftentimes.

yes it writes well in any style you want it was designed for this but It makes mistakes and cannot be trusted. Also it is an excellent translator from any language that is in it's database.

 

[Behold]

I asked AI on what Both of you said, and when I plugged in

Where does the saying Rightesouness is the Root and Shining your light is the Fruit, comes from (that LoveYeshua posted)

It responded,

The concept that righteousness is the root and shining one's light is the fruit is a metaphorical interpretation

And then I asked at

Where does the saying God's Grace is the ROOT, and Holiness is the FRUIT come from (that Behold posted?)

It responded.

The saying "God's Grace is the Root, and Holiness is the Fruit" is not a direct quotation from a specific biblical verse but is a theological concept derived from biblical principles and teachings.

Yes, im not teaching "metaphorical interpretations""" parading about as naked Legalsim ... You can find that in the Op's Thread.

Im only and always teaching Paul's Doctrine.....that is "the righteousness of Faith".
This teaching is explaining that "imputed righteousness" is God's Grace, the ROOT... that is our power that empowers our Holiness that is the FRUIT.

LoveYeshua, is teaching, by rewriting my quote, that righteousness is something you do, as "prayer, and devotion, and obedience'........so, that is works (Legalism).
God always rejects this as SELF Righteousness.

 

[Muna]

Did you ever notice the way Paul used Sarah and Agar differs from the texts in the OT?

In Genesis where they are both mentioned? Yeah, they were not shown in an allegory if that is what you mean.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Here is one that i posted to 1st Century Lady, and i posted this same teaching on Righteousness, this week, 15 times.......probably.



God's Righteousness ...that is God's Grace..... is the ROOT and it produces Holiness as the Fruit.

Christians always try to DO Holiness and can't, and that is because Holiness is to "bear the fruit" of being made Righteous.

God's GRACE is the ROOT, and Holiness is the Fruit.

this IS a post from yesterday AFTER I wrote my OP!

• Yesterday at 10:33 AM

• Add bookmark
• #15

Right. I should have said keep and grow in God's gift of righteousness. The born again naturally keep His commandments, and should run from temptations. Abiding in Christ is the next step towards holiness, which is Christ's ultimate goal for us. "Be holy as I am holy."

God's Righteousness ...that is God's Grace..... is the ROOT and it produces Holiness as the Fruit.

Christians always try to DO Holiness and can't, and that is because Holiness is to "bear the fruit" of being made Righteous.

God's GRACE is the ROOT, and Holiness is the Fruit.


SO WHAT DID COPY FROM YOU WHERE IS IT In THE OP? SHOW ME IN THE OP!

 

[Muna]

yes it writes well in any style you want it was designed for this but It makes mistakes and cannot be trusted. Also it is an excellent translator from any language that is in it's database.

Not denying it cannot, but I must say, I have read far more people on forums like this that have exceeded the number of mistakes it has ever made.(or at least the same seems obvious to me). Many of which I wouldn't trust anymore than I would it. It's created by man, so it will be less than perfect obviously.

Edit :typo

 

[Behold]

ok, you have no proof that you can provide. Until you do prove I copied say no more, to be polite you are being ridiculous.

Still waiting for that proof.....

Let me post another one for you, because you want some "Proof".
I'll post the date also, that shows i wrote it 5 days before you wrote your THREAD on "Hidden Righteousness", where we are having our discussion regarding you abusing my quote, by rewriting it on your more recent Thread as LEGALSIM.

So, this post of Mine, is #1287 that was posted on Episkopos's Thread..."the Gospel is in the Torah"......on Oct 9....and your Thread was written on the 14th.

Take a good look at the last line in my Post to Lisbeth.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Oct 9, 2025
• #1,287

@Episkopos

I was glad to see that Madame Guyon (pg 64, #1272) sees no contradiction between imputed righteousness and the need to continue "filling up that which is behind" essentially, and continue going on to perfection/holiness,

She does not teach this "holiness" as the believer trying to do it.
She teaches that the fruit of God's Grace, is Holiness.

What Legalists like the incredibly vain one on this forum falsely teach, is that the person is to try to DO Holiness, and that is not possible.
Holiness is a FRUIT of the Spirit.......its a fruit of God's Grace....and the spiritual truth is.....= we bear fruit.......not try to cause it by self effort.

Chritianity is entirely Spiritual.......Its God in us, transforming us.......its not us trying to conform ourselves.
Its us as a vessel, and God is working through us.......bearing HIS Fruit, that is our Holiness and Sanctification.

Religioius people both saved and unsaved.... try to do that as self effort.........and it can't be done.

Paul teaches that we DIE To Self effort. .....and allow God's Grace to become our power that produces the fruit that is Holiness.
Gods Grace is the ROOT.....and Holiness is the FRUIT being produced in us as our discipleship.

 

[LoveYeshua]

this cannot be found in the OP, root and fruit are words from the dictionary that many use. I wrote something completely different it is like if I used the word Lord in one of my post and you accused me of copying it from you Absurd!

I never wrote this. Righteousness is the Root and Holiness is the FRUIT". or
Gods Grace is the ROOT.....and Holiness is the FRUIT being produced in us as our discipleship.

which one is it you refer to anyways?

I wrote this;
Hidden righteousness, then, is the root — the secret devotion, prayer, and obedience that no one sees but God. Shining your light is the fruit — the visible love, mercy, and faith that grow from that hidden root. One cannot exist without the other. Without the hidden life, the shining light becomes prideful. Without the shining light, the hidden faith becomes lifeless and closed off from the world.

it is completely different a child can see this!

 

[Muna]

And like i told Truly......i am use to people on many forums, using my Threads as sermons or sunday school lessons, or as commentary chapters or as youtube videos or as study guides.
Im fine with it. Ive no issue with it, Im grateful it happens.... but, when my Quote is changed into Legalism, as you did it on the same Forum, the same week...., then that is a problem that has to be addressed.

Now, have the last word...

I missed this part, I must have also missed where you told me this because I find your posts hard to read, but I cannot imagine people using your threads for choice sermons (in churches) or sunday school lessons (in various childrens settings) or as commentary chapters or Youtube videos, and all these study guides

You cannot be serious.

How on earth would you even know if people in various churches were using anything you chicken scratched onto a reply box on a forum?

What do they do, copy paste the chicken scratch and contact you by PM to ask you for permissions to mention a thing or two to their own congregations?

Do you know how weird that sounds?

 

[Behold]

this cannot be found in the OP, root and fruit are words from the dictionary that many use. I wrote something completely different it is like if I used the word Lord in one of my post and you accused me of copying it from you Absurd!

I never wrote this. Righteousness is the Root and Holiness is the FRUIT".

I wrote this;
Hidden righteousness, then, is the root — the secret devotion, prayer, and obedience

Yes, ive posted what you wrote..........in 3-4 posts here on your Thread.
Did you miss them all,??? as the other members wont.
And they wont miss this post...ither.
Believe it.

See, I wrote "Righteousness is the Root and Holiness is the Fruit".......last OCT 9, and 10th and until today, and i think i posted this to you also in a post to you.

So, you took " Root and Fruit""" = QUOTE....., out of my Teaching on Righteousness, and wrote your Thread on ""Righteousness,"" and only used the "ROOT and FRUIT" in that same order....as your rewrite of my quote.

Dont do that anymore because you are Legalist who teaches a Galatians 1:8 Gospel of WORKS ... @LoveYeshua

 

[Muna]

Anyone can use root and fruit in a sentence

Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:
every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
and cast into the fire.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Yes, ive posted what you wrote..........in 3-4 posts here on your Thread.
Did you miss them all,??? as the other members wont.
And they wont miss this post...ither.
Believe it.

See, I wrote "Righteousness is the Root and Holiness is the Fruit".......last OCT 9, and 10th and until today, and i think i posted this to you also in a post to you.

So, you took " Root and Fruit""" = QUOTE....., out of my Teaching on Righteousness, and wrote your Thread on ""Righteousness,"" and only used the "ROOT and FRUIT" in that same order....as your rewrite of my quote.

Dont do that anymore because you are Legalist who teaches a Galatians 1:8 Gospel of WORKS ... @LoveYeshua

I have proven to you and everyone who perhaps read it that it is completely different. you are being childish.

no need to apologize. I forgave you already.

 

[Behold]

I missed this part, I must have also missed where you told me this because I find your posts hard to read, but I cannot imagine people using your threads for choice sermons

If you were a student of Paul's Epistles, and Paul's Doctrine as i am.......then you would have no trouble understanding why a real bible student , Minister or Novice, will be intrigued by what i teach to go to a bible and check out Paul's Epistles.
I only teach Paul's theology, and im constantly amazed that so called 'christians" have no idea what Paul teaches., and that is the other main reason, i am on forums like this one.
To teach them the simple basic Pauline Theology principles regarding : = the "simplicity that is in Christ" that is the "righteousness of Faith" theology that is Paul's doctrine.