rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I don't think you know what romans 9-11 is saying, or the 2 wives illustrated in the Ot.
Revelation 20: 5&6
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE by rebuilder
""You really serious????
You defend that 1 thes 4 is NOT THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISING BEFORE ANY LIVING BELIEVERS?????"""
Reply by Dave;
""Ha ha ha ha ha....""
Strange how a doctrine can drive a man into a state of exclusive euphoric oblivion.
Not aware of the evidence destroying their huge mega investment.
Such a waste, the postribber determination that investigation is their enemy.
""You really serious????
You defend that 1 thes 4 is NOT THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISING BEFORE ANY LIVING BELIEVERS?????"""
Reply by Dave;
""Ha ha ha ha ha....""
Strange how a doctrine can drive a man into a state of exclusive euphoric oblivion.
Not aware of the evidence destroying their huge mega investment.
Such a waste, the postribber determination that investigation is their enemy.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
two wives . JESUS has only ONE WIFE , the BRIDE of CHRIST .
it consists of beleiving jews and gentiles .
But again i say just who amongst us is a co helper too and or supporter of in any way
this ecuemincal movement . Cause that my friend be of anti christ .
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I NEVER SAID HE DID.
You have no idea what I said.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
then why even bring up two wives . You do have some explaining to do my friend .
But do beware that many have been given to the isms of men
and have learned their doct rine through such precepts of men .
I highly do suggest , even beg , plead and warn
for all who name the name of JESUS CHRIST
to put down all books , all commentaries of men
And pick up again the bible and learn for themselves .
For the greatest schism that will merge all isms , under guise it has come to unify ,
WILL and does LEAD THIS PEOPLE , all denominations and the false religoins
TO A LIE , to a love that will unify THE DECIEVED as ONE . OH its a nimrod we are one dELUSION ALL RIGHT
and sadly many sure do seem to build in its strange and diverse stone temple
adding all in with UNTEMPERED MORTER they call LOVE .
PS
THAT BIG OL TOWER , WILL NEVER REACH HEAVEN , ITS ALL COMING DOWN on THE DAY OF THE GREAT
and MIGHTY GOD . We better do a return to scrips for ourselves and fast .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
first thess chapter four , that event described
is a one time event . The dead , those who slept in christ
and those who are still alive and in Christ shall be caught up together in the air to be WITH the LORD
The event is in the blink of an eye too . OH ITS fast
the d ead in Christ shall rise and then we who are still here will be caught up with THEM .
It aint seperated by seven years , or by a thousand years or by any years .
iTS QUICK , ITS FAST and BY GOODNESS ITS THE DAY I BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TOO FOR YEARS .
So now i leave us with these five lovely words .
EVEN
SO
COME LORD JESUS .
For a hint on when this day shall occur . JUST KNOW its like a thief in the night , NO man knows
the day nor hour . BUT in chapter five we are given a hint
FOR WHEN THEY SHALL say peace n safety . EVER GET THE FEELING the day of ALL MI GHTY GOD and of the LAMB
IS NIGH . LOOK at this all inclusive ecumenical pit of vipers and asps . LOOK at the posion
they preach to this people . LOOK at the tower of satan they build
this great and mighty diverse and strange inclusive tower . oh iT WONT be reaching to heaven nor bring them world peace n safety , THAT MUCH I cAN say.
AND ITS ALL COM ING DOWN and all who joined hands with it , ON THE DAY OF ALL MIGHT GOD and of the LAMB .
THEY FED THIS PEOPLE A LIE they called love and claimed was of GOD . MANY gonna wail my friend
ON that great and mighty DAY OF THE LORD . As for the sheep , WE FLY HOME , NOT TOGO under the wrath
OF GOD and of the lamb . EvEN SO come LORD JESUS . but till then , TIS TIME to expose the ho
and preach ONLY JESUS
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
This we agree is one with the scripture, where you've pointed out earlier according to Revelation chapter 14.
They are not 'symbolic' the claim of some, but exact as it is the will of GOD by the Gospel, the remnant of Jews saved by grace should be 144,000 of them.
While the rest of the Jews, again according to GOD's will, HE consigned them to disobedience, until the full number of the Gentiles be come in.
To us Revelation chapter 14, is referring to GOD's New Covenant people through the Gospel here on earth, beginning with the 'firstfruits' to salvation through the Messiah Jesus from Mount Zion.
Indeed He started with these 'firstfruits' discipling them beginning with the sermon on a mount, until the time of Paul and forth, they're the 'remnant under the election of grace'.
They have the 'seal' of GOD, and on earth worshiping in spirit and truth they too perceive and sang the song that the angels and elders perceived and sang in Heaven.
Further down the chapter, it also minister and witness to us that the angels bringing the Gospel to all nations of the Gentiles as well.
And further down as well, to the time of anti-Christ and the fall of the Babylon empire, and to those who worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark on their forehead or hand.
For they'll face the wrath of GOD in the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
For the record, i disagree and there's no such thing as this chapter refers to, that these raptured 144,000 'firstfruits' Israelites are in Heaven, or even taken in the pre-great trib times.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
What befalls the gentile who rejects JESUS
is the same that shall befall any jew who does so . Perdition .
Might i not only suggest but warn and plead to all that JESUS be put FIRST AGAIN , HIS GOSPEL .
because what i do say to one i must say to all.
From even the times of the apostels till now
MANY JEWS , MANY GENTILES have died rejecting the gospel of Christ and shall arise up
to JUDGMENT and PERDITION on the DAY OF JUDGMENT .
And even now we have many jews and g entiles still rejecting HIM . And all the while
the churches are so heavily focused on some kind of end time awakening . NOPE .
preach the gospel to all that has breath . FOR even as paul , A jew himself knew
as well as did peter , john and others . The v ery words of JESUS
IF YE beleive NOT that i am HE you will die in your sins .
AND i sure didnt seem to see peter , john , james , JESUS , and etc
TELLING men HEY HUSH UP , THEY GODS KIDS
and in the end they all will be saved .
NOPE . someone twisted this and SO all israel shall be saved into something else .
Paul and them all BELEIVED the coming of the LORD was nigh
And i noticed that HE and peter and o thers were always PREACHING TO THE JEWS
as well as later to the gentiles , REPENT, BELEIVE , for why will ye pe rish .
THEY DIDNT give them some kind of end time hope.
THEY PREACHED BELEIVE YE ON JESUS NOW , LEST HE COMES UPON you in a day YE KNOW NOT .
OOPS . we got lied too friend .
Thank you very much for that and i appreciate your reply, since i perceive your 'zeal' for the scripture and truth, and stand to no nonsense.
But if i may whether you agree or disagree, there's something about these rebellious Jews i want to clarify with you, thank you.
According to Romans chapter 9-11, we perceive Paul's concern(like himself experiencing 'birth pangs') about the rebellious Jews against the Gospel, Jesus, and unsaved true people of GOD, as he was prior(Romans9:4).
So he ministered and witnessed to the Romans Gentile church, declaring that's a mystery, due to their blindness in part, where GOD HIMSELF consigned them to disobedience.
Therefore it is not their fault (even to persecuting Christ Himself, probably even Judas, 'for they knew not what they do'). Even until today where they're yet opposed to the Gospel and Jesus, since the full number of Gentiles have not come in.
As when and where according to the scripture the Gospel is preached to the whole world whilst the full number of Gentiles have come in.
Thus it's no longer ministered and witnessed anymore, then the end will come, and the beginning of the Great Tribulation, tribulation of the church saints worldwide starts.
Coming back to the mystery, when all the Gentiles have come in, 'all Israel' shall be saved in the end, not by the Gospel and repentance, but by the 'mercy' of GOD.
Romans 11:
16. For if the 'firstfruit' be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
28. As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your(Gentiles) sakes: but as touching election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of GOD are 'without repentance'.
The above verses and according to the context of chapter 11, the rebellious Jews are exempted from the Gospel and repentance, but alone by the mercy of GOD where in the end all of them shall be saved.
And referring to 'all Israel' scripturally, they are especially those of the household of Jacob or Israel, and none other.
For others who claim to be Jews, even by generation, and yet not from the 'household of Jacob', are not Jews at all by 'election and fathers' sake'.
i believe they're like Gentiles, who have to respond by the Gospel and be saved under the election by grace and through faith, the gift of GOD.
That's why the born again Jew and Gentile church under the New Testament discipleship and calling, have to minister and witness accordingly to, 'as or for it is written', to the unsaved world.
Even to those who claim to be Jews, yet are not from the 'household or linage of Jacob or Israel', but rather generation of 'proselytes'. (Matthew ch. 23).
On the other hand, the salvation of all Gentiles will be based on the Gospel and being saved under the election of grace and through faith.
As were the remnant of Israel, the 144,000 firstfruits unto salvation by the Gospel and under the election of grace and through faith, from the beginning with Christ and after. (but they've already received the 'seal of GOD'. Rev.ch.14)
But for the Gentiles and not true Jews who reject the Gospel and Jesus, will be judged in the final judgement or so.
Again the mystery is, possibility GOD will still be merciful on them that very day, than the 'lukewarm' Christians, don't you reckon so?
(In support to this we minister and testify, the Holy Ghost remind us, Lamentations 3:22-23. And the deed of Rahab the prostitute, whilst her name is in the genealogy of Jesus Christ)
To top it up in support, He's giving me more examples, Matthew 7:21-23 and the on the final judgement where Christ'll separate the sheep and the goats.
(Surprisingly, the ones who did and boasted, were not recognized, were told to depart and were separated as goats. And the ones who did and boasted not, for they don't even remember doing it, were accepted and separated as sheep)
Brethren, do you perceive as discipled in All Scripture=Holy Bible, what the Holy Ghost is bringing in context the truth, as our remembrance and stir up of our memory?
Peace be with you all in Jesus name
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Matthew chapter 24
Verse 14, minister and witness to us that the Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in the world, unto all nations, and then the end shall come.
When then GOD will send a strong delusion upon all the 'unbelievers' in the world, for instead of believing in the truth and come into the Light.
HE gave them up whom remained in 'darkness' still, to believe forth in a lie, once again in the ages of darkness HE allows on the ungodly, likewise the godly.
Where the deception of satan through the anti-Christ and the false prophet of 'darkness' takes capture over the world.
As prophesied by Prophet Daniel, the anti-Christ will fulfill the 'abomination of desolation' in the third Temple, and shall come to pass.
Therefore believers by these signs and times, are to be ready and prepared, what they ought to do to do and not.
For then begins the Great Tribulation, which has never been nor will ever be, but now and is shortened, due no flesh can endure and for the elect's sake.
As the false deception of 'Babylon' and it's 'darkness' shall intensify worldwide and if were possible they shall deceive the very elect (the very church saints).
Yet they are not to be deceived, and to remain faithful by the Lord's given signs and times, ready and prepared next of His coming that will be seen in the sky.
As and when these 'tribulation' faced by the church saints, devised and deceived by the prince of darkness, shall comes to pass.
Then begins the wrath of GOD upon the world on the ungodly and kingdom of darkness here on earth, which have never taken place.
There'll be terrible 'calamities' and 'plagues' that'll shake the very foundation of the earth, even to death fleeing from them who seek death to escape.
Finally, the coming of the Lord (like a thief unexpected) in the clouds with power and great glory, shall be seen by the whole world, and the 'first resurrection' takes place.
For the dead in Christ shall rise, and the living and remain who've come out of the Great Tribulation, shall be changed.
Whilst, together shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, hence so ever be with the Lord in Heaven, and second death have no power over them.
According to Revelation, in Heaven they who cried out to the Lord are given 'white robes', and are instructed to rest for awhile(thousand years), until the rest of their fellow servants joins them.
So, isn't the Lord referring to the fellow servants who'll make it at the 'second resurrection', where the 'sheep' will be separated form the goats in the final judgement (those resurrect unto life or damnation) ??
On the other hand, after the Great Tribulation and first resurrection, the Lord comes back touching the earth with His holy angels who followed Him.
They'll wage war with anti-Christ, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, until the fowls of the air will devour them.
Anti-Christ and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire, and satan will be bound into the bottomless pit a thousand years as well.
At the same time, the ready and not prepare servants or 5 virgins of His coming, will be left behind, and they'll cry bitterly with the gnashing of their teeth.
Since they're left behind and for their generation to complete another thousand years, and where at the 'second resurrection' second death have power over them (remember then is either they resurrect unto life or damnation?)
Therefore 'friends in Christ', are we ministering and witnessing prophesied events 'close' to the written scriptures?
Care to discuss step by step things that does not add up or which that adds up, thank you?
Verse 14, minister and witness to us that the Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in the world, unto all nations, and then the end shall come.
When then GOD will send a strong delusion upon all the 'unbelievers' in the world, for instead of believing in the truth and come into the Light.
HE gave them up whom remained in 'darkness' still, to believe forth in a lie, once again in the ages of darkness HE allows on the ungodly, likewise the godly.
Where the deception of satan through the anti-Christ and the false prophet of 'darkness' takes capture over the world.
As prophesied by Prophet Daniel, the anti-Christ will fulfill the 'abomination of desolation' in the third Temple, and shall come to pass.
Therefore believers by these signs and times, are to be ready and prepared, what they ought to do to do and not.
For then begins the Great Tribulation, which has never been nor will ever be, but now and is shortened, due no flesh can endure and for the elect's sake.
As the false deception of 'Babylon' and it's 'darkness' shall intensify worldwide and if were possible they shall deceive the very elect (the very church saints).
Yet they are not to be deceived, and to remain faithful by the Lord's given signs and times, ready and prepared next of His coming that will be seen in the sky.
As and when these 'tribulation' faced by the church saints, devised and deceived by the prince of darkness, shall comes to pass.
Then begins the wrath of GOD upon the world on the ungodly and kingdom of darkness here on earth, which have never taken place.
There'll be terrible 'calamities' and 'plagues' that'll shake the very foundation of the earth, even to death fleeing from them who seek death to escape.
Finally, the coming of the Lord (like a thief unexpected) in the clouds with power and great glory, shall be seen by the whole world, and the 'first resurrection' takes place.
For the dead in Christ shall rise, and the living and remain who've come out of the Great Tribulation, shall be changed.
Whilst, together shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, hence so ever be with the Lord in Heaven, and second death have no power over them.
According to Revelation, in Heaven they who cried out to the Lord are given 'white robes', and are instructed to rest for awhile(thousand years), until the rest of their fellow servants joins them.
So, isn't the Lord referring to the fellow servants who'll make it at the 'second resurrection', where the 'sheep' will be separated form the goats in the final judgement (those resurrect unto life or damnation) ??
On the other hand, after the Great Tribulation and first resurrection, the Lord comes back touching the earth with His holy angels who followed Him.
They'll wage war with anti-Christ, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, until the fowls of the air will devour them.
Anti-Christ and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire, and satan will be bound into the bottomless pit a thousand years as well.
At the same time, the ready and not prepare servants or 5 virgins of His coming, will be left behind, and they'll cry bitterly with the gnashing of their teeth.
Since they're left behind and for their generation to complete another thousand years, and where at the 'second resurrection' second death have power over them (remember then is either they resurrect unto life or damnation?)
Therefore 'friends in Christ', are we ministering and witnessing prophesied events 'close' to the written scriptures?
Care to discuss step by step things that does not add up or which that adds up, thank you?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Boy did you mess a certain part up .
While it is TRUE GOD ALLOWED them to crucify Christ ,
YOU cannot say ITS NOT The fault of the one DOING that . OH ITS still the FAULT of one who does any sin, any wrong unto anyone .
Even peter said WHOM YE have WICKEDLY crucified . SO peter knew they were to blame .
BUT THEN he says i know you did it in ignorance as did your rulers .
Unto all who repent and beleive ON JESUS there is eternal life .
but unto any , and that do include ANY as in jew as in gentile
WHO rejects JESUS ,
well lets just say it says ALL UNBELIEVERS shall have their part in the LAKE of fire .
And do notice it says ALL , not JUST THE GENTILES . many jews will wail in the lake of fire at teh end of days
my friend , just like many g entiles will .
BUT I have real good news , IF ONE BELIVES IN JESUS and reject hims not , THEIR LOTT wont be the lake of fire
But eternal life forever with the glorious LORD who had sav ed them .
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE
""For the record, i disagree and there's no such thing as this chapter refers to, that these raptured 144,000 'firstfruits' Israelites are in Heaven, or even taken in the pre-great trib times.""
Not sure what you are saying.
The 144,000 are in heaven approx mid trib (mid 7yr trib) as declared in Rev 14.
The main harvest jews follows... again approx mid 7 yr trib.
(Rev 14:14)
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE
"For the dead in Christ shall rise, and the living and remain who've come out of the Great Tribulation, shall be changed."
Nope
Jesus gave the setting for the rapture.
It is opposite your view and position.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Ask yourself what does Gomer represent in Hosea.
Then look at Ruth.
In the book Ruth, What does Ruth represent?
Those 2 books have tons of typology.
The wife is the jews. Current israel
( the wife gone aworing)
The bride of Christ becomes the wife in Rev 19.
The Jews are not the bride of Christ.
Very simple facts.
There is not a single postribber that has any understanding of the 2 wives.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Anyone of the unfaithful harlot gonna wail on the day of the LORD .
whether jew or gentile .
I already know a whorish wife and that wife got cast out .
Now let us notice something .
IF even GOD all mighty c ast out the jews who led the people into rebellion
Dont expect WHORISH christendom and her false rebellious leaders and peoples
WHO sat under A WHORES ecumenical love fest to hear well done .
NONE that sit under that which is of anti christ gonna hear well done . Wailing is all that will be heard by them
ON HIS day . So lets all keep THAT in mind .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
recap . you mean to say THE UNBELIE VING jews are not the bride of CHRIST .
FOR every believing jew and gentile IS THE BRIDE of CHRIST .
never let a dispen ANYTHING tell you otherwise . WE been LIED TOO and big time my friend .
Between all the isms this people has no idea Which way is up or down left or right , AND darn sure
knows not THE RIGHT WAY . I TELL US ALL , YOOHOO muc h of christendom , YA BEEN DUPED by men .
And now they lead you and the false religoins ALL TO THE PITS OF PERDTION on THE DAY OF THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY
and the LAMB . HEAR THAT and hear it loud and well . WE BESS bible up for our own selves and real fast .
No it did not!
It's not even talking about the Great Tribulation, nor the rapture where the 144,000 are in Heaven.
Christ is already in Heaven and from Heaven with the holy angels the revelation is being ministered and witnessed.
Mount Zion is on earth, symbolically it represent the spiritual Heavenly Jerusalem, GOD's eternal city, where believers are said to have come through faith.
Where the Lord begin His work on the Israelites, and by this a remnant of them were saved under the election of grace, and through faith.
Numbering 144,000 of them, where the FATHER's name written in their forehead, and they are sealed, even to Paul acknowledging during his time, 'at present'.
They were redeemed from the earth and being the firstfruits unto GOD and to the Lamb, and still on earth.
Next verse, the angels having the everlasting Gospel to preach unto them dwell on earth, to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.
From the day of Pentecost, the Apostles brought the everlasting Gospel forth to all nation, kindred, tongue and people.
This is the everlasting Gospel period to the generation of Gentile church saints saved similarly under the election of grace and through faith.
To the time of anti-Christ and after, and before the thousand years of peace, where the judgement is upon on those who worshiped the beast, his image, received the mark in their forehead or hand.
They will drink the wine of the wrath of GOD, being tormented with fire and brimstone, and Heaven is witness to this.
From Rev. ch. 14, it's talking about after the thousand years, the second resurrection and final judgement, where the Lord and the angels are to reap from the harvest they gather of the earth.
The harvest where there are those who'll resurrect unto life the Lord shall reap and those resurrect unto damnation cast into the great winepress of the wrath of GOD.
Apparently, there's no coverage of the 'first resurrection' and the 'Great Tribulation', but the 'imposters' and 'counterfeits' love to copy and paste to fit their version.
Again am dealing with 'gibberish' babble once again from 'rebuilder 454', who loves to rebuild the scripture to his 'twisted' version.
It's best you start your own thread on that version and not troll on mine and cause a mockery.
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No i didn't!
Romans 11:
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Read on and understand the context, thank you.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
God does not want you to remain ignorant.
The "living saints who are on earth alive at the 2nd Coming of Christ will WAIT until the Resurrection takes Place FIRST,
AFTER the Resurrection of the Saints(1st Resurrection) will the rapture of remaining saints takes place.
SEE, left-overs are GOOD
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
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