Do you believe in biological evolution?

[Wrangler]

By "educated" and I have read those books, nothing involves facts, just stupid things like there is too little dust on the moon for it to have been around for billions of years.

I’d love your thoughtful reply to this excerpt from Nature.
In humans, cartilage-forming genes switched on in new regions, prompting horizontal growth, while bone-forming genes activated later, slowing the hardening process.

Because primates share most of the same developmental genes, researchers believethese changes appeared early in human evolution, after our lineage split from chimpanzees.4 (emphasis added)

However, evolutionists don’t know when our lineage split from chimps nor what this common ancestor was. Furthermore, sharing many common developmental genes is hardly surprising since humans also share genes with other organisms for breaking down and digesting proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. This is evidence of a common Designer, not a common ancestor.

 

[quietthinker]

Do you believe in biological evolution? That Mankind is actually a species of ape? That all species come from fundamental forms that have evolved? (bacteria->fish->mammal...) That God directed somehow evolution?
If you believe in evolution, how do you concile this scientific theory with the biblical story of creation?

Or do you believe in the genesis creation? That God has created all the universe immediately?
If you believe in creation, what do you think of the scientific discoveries?

I believe tadpoles turn into frogs, mosquito larvae into mosquitos and sperm and eggs into living creatures.
Do I believe a single cell turns into multiple cells? No. Why? It doesn't have the information.

For example....can your computer manipulate graphics if it only has audio capacity?
Do we really believe if our analog radio's hung around long enough they'd turn out moving colour pictures.....let's say millions of years down the track?
Do we really want to categorise ourselves as intelligent fools? C'mon, this ain't rocket science!

 

[rvmb]

I believe tadpoles turn into frogs, mosquito larvae into mosquitos and sperm and eggs into living creatures.
Do I believe a single cell turns into multiple cells? No. Why? It doesn't have the information.

For example....can your computer manipulate graphics if it only has audio capacity?
Do we really believe if our analog radio's hung around long enough they'd turn out moving colour pictures.....let's say millions of years down the track?
Do we really want to categorise ourselves as intelligent fools? C'mon, this ain't rocket science!

Like produces like.
eg cross a dog with a cat you get ........the types that believe all flesh comes from a common ancestor

 

[Chihuahua]

I’d love your thoughtful reply to this excerpt from Nature.
In humans, cartilage-forming genes switched on in new regions, prompting horizontal growth, while bone-forming genes activated later, slowing the hardening process.

Because primates share most of the same developmental genes, researchers believethese changes appeared early in human evolution, after our lineage split from chimpanzees.4 (emphasis added)

However, evolutionists don’t know when our lineage split from chimps nor what this common ancestor was. Furthermore, sharing many common developmental genes is hardly surprising since humans also share genes with other organisms for breaking down and digesting proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. This is evidence of a common Designer, not a common ancestor.

It depends on what is meant by "split." Sometimes an entire population can become a new species. A mutation occurs, gives the individual an advantage, meaning more successful babies. Eventually the entire population becomes homozygous. On the other hand, a mutation gives no advantage and that goes away or just kinda sticks around. Other cases are heterozygous carriers of a mutation in their hemoglobin, which helps prevent malaria. However, a copy from both parents makes for sickle cell. In some cases populations become isolated and adapt to their new environment.

Yes, we share parts of our DNA with many species. However, you can see changes in DNA the more distant the organisms are. Even more interesting is that you could have a segment of DNA the produces EXACTLY the same thing, but the coding for it is increasingly different. There exists four codons and they exists in pairs of three. 4 x 4 x 4, so there are 64 possible combinations for only 20 amino acids (plus the "stop" combination). The amino acid leucine has six combinations, most have two combinations. Which of the six combinations for Leucine has no affect on the amino acid or the final protein in any way.

Imagine a vending machine that is free. If you do 123 you get a candy bar. 133 132 142 134 112 tells the machine to drop the same candy bar from the same location. 333 or 222 gets you a bag of chips. What we find is that the closer related a species is, the more similar the combination. So, a human has 123 and 222 (candy bar + chips). But a chimp has 133 and 222 (still, candy bar + chips). Monkey has 132 and 333 (candy bar and soda). There is no reason for this at all from a creationist perspective. These are deviations over time for the same result. Period.

So, the code changes but the outcome is the same and it changes more and more with speciation. This is a simple example, but I hope that make sense. Why would God do such a thing, to trick us? No, because evolution is real and these codon changes affect nothing.

 

[Chihuahua]

"Credentials" I smiled when Chichi thought he did then like others here have, I decided mute was the best option for him :)
John Lennox, James Tour, Stephen Meyers - fantastic to listen to unless your Chi
Time allowing, I'll try & watch your video

If you enjoy listening to the equivalent of a layperson speaking on evolution I guess. They have no background or credibility to speak on biology as some kind of authority.

 

[quietthinker]

If you enjoy listening to the equivalent of a layperson speaking on evolution I guess. They have no background or credibility to speak on biology as some kind of authority.

mutation only qualifies as a breakdown in information.....not new information....unless of course the interpretative factor is also faulty.

 

[Chihuahua]

mutation only qualifies as a breakdown in information.....not new information....unless of course the interpretative factor is also faulty.

Creationists will sometimes say this showing a lack of knowledge about evolution and mutation. No "information" is lost generally. Let us mutate the codon in a strand of DNA. TTA tells the cell to put amino acid Leucine at a specific spot on protein strand. OH NO!! Mutation. Now Instead of TTA it is TTG and yet Leucine is still on the same spot. Where is the loss of information?

But wait, further down is another TTA.. it has been mutated Now what should be a Leucine in the protein is a Serine.

So, what information has been lost? Inquiring minds need to know.

 

[Chihuahua]

I believe tadpoles turn into frogs, mosquito larvae into mosquitos and sperm and eggs into living creatures.
Do I believe a single cell turns into multiple cells? No. Why? It doesn't have the information.

You do know cells divide and become two cells, which become four cells? When you cut yourself and you are healed, where do you think that skin came from?

Haploid cells, sperm and egg, become a single cell.... which divides... over... and over... and over. 9 month later a baby is born.

For example....can your computer manipulate graphics if it only has audio capacity?
Do we really believe if our analog radio's hung around long enough they'd turn out moving colour pictures.....let's say millions of years down the track?
Do we really want to categorise ourselves as intelligent fools? C'mon, this ain't rocket science!

None of those have any relevance.

 

[Davy]

It is not science. It is not a debate anymore than Elvis, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness monster are debated. Evolution is a fact and a few people cling to something not because it is a matter of faith, but an interpretation. You have others that say oh, I accept micro evolution because that is a fact, but somehow God has put limits on how much something can evolve.
God just does a fantastic job of testing our faith. Donkeys and horses can have a child, but mules cannot breed, meaning they were once the same species.

What is sad is there are people in this very forum who have been so brainwashed by this nonsense they believe if you don't treat Genesis like a science book, which it is not, you will go to hell. What is incredibly sad is that generally these very same people DENY THE WORDS OF CHRIST. They are plain as day. It is plainly said that we must have the body and blood of Christ. When the crowds scoffed and left, He did not say... oh I was being symbolic. It is right there in your face. Now that is theologically important. Same thing with baptism, the very same people will say, noooooooo baptism is symbolic. No where does the bible say it is a symbol. Two critically important aspects of the Christian faith and they call it symbolic while saying believing that belief in an outdated disproven unimportant thing that how creation came about is a matter of Heaven or hell.

What is bad is that their false beliefs come from Gnosticism. Gnostics believe that all material things are inherently bad, thus bread and wine can't actually be important, same as water. Deny deny deny what is critically important and then claim and rebuke and testify that your interpretation of something as a matter of science, not faith, is what is really important.

You need to go on to someone else. I don't care to listen to your rhetoric, nor to try and educate about the field of aviation I retired from, which is going too deep here into my personal life, and which conversation serves no purpose with the subject of this thread.

 

[quietthinker]

You do know cells divide and become two cells, which become four cells? When you cut yourself and you are healed, where do you think that skin came from?

Haploid cells, sperm and egg, become a single cell.... which divides... over... and over... and over. 9 month later a baby is born.


None of those have any relevance.

Unless a cell has the information intrinsically, it does not acquire it by dividing.

 

[Chihuahua]

You need to go on to someone else. I don't care to listen to your rhetoric, nor to try and educate about the field of aviation I retired from, which is going too deep here into my personal life, and which conversation serves no purpose with the subject of this thread.

I am not prying into your life. Saying you "worked" in aviation is like saying I worked in helping launch rockets into space, which while true, glosses over what that really means.

 

[Chihuahua]

Unless a cell has the information intrinsically, it does not acquire it by dividing.

I have no idea where to begin with that. A cell during a process called mitosis splits and makes another cell. That is why you can damage your body and it regenerates. When mommy and daddy snuggled up close, a magical haploid cell from dad entered mom and cuddled up so close they became a single cell (this is literally the Disney version). Scientists, liars, call the creation of haploid cells "meiosis." Some say that God punishes the girl with the wrath of the moon and makes boys requires long showers. Thus the two like their marriage, unless he done cheat on her, becomes forever a unique single cell... usually. Now that single cell splits in two over and over in process called mitosis.

Now, the cells talk and form cliques in a process called cell signaling. One group gathers and make the circulatory system. One group, the brains of the body make the nervous system. Don't forget the jocks... they are the muscles.

No information is lost.

If you want I can talk about identical twins or chimeras.

 

[Davy]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST: FYI...

In my 1980's college biology textbook, there is a drawing of embryos that all appear the same. They are all animal embryos except one, which is supposed to be a human embryo. But it is fake. The drawing was done by an evolutionist over 100 years ago, and that drawing is still put in modern school textbooks.

Haeckel’s Fraudulent Embryo Drawings Are Still Present in Biology Textbooks — Here’s a List

Since the 19th century these illustrations have been used to support the hypothesis of universal common ancestry.

scienceandculture.com

That reveals how evolutionists have no problem telling LIES to attempt to support Darwin's theory of the evolution of species.

 

[quietthinker]

I have no idea where to begin with that. A cell during a process called mitosis splits and makes another cell. That is why you can damage your body and it regenerates. When mommy and daddy snuggled up close, a magical haploid cell from dad entered mom and cuddled up so close they became a single cell (this is literally the Disney version). Scientists, liars, call the creation of haploid cells "meiosis." Some say that God punishes the girl with the wrath of the moon and makes boys requires long showers. Thus thr two like their marriage, unless he done cheat on her, becomes a single cell... usually Now that single cell splits in two over and over in process called mitosis.

Now, the cells talk and form cliques in a process called cell signaling. One group gathers and make the circulatory system. One group, the brains of the body make the nervous system. Don't forget the jocks... they are the muscles.

No information is lost.

Information for eyes, ears, lungs, skin, blood, nerves, brain, cognition.....hooves, hides, feathers, claws, scales and the ability to extract oxygen from water or air etc etc...depending on the species has all got to be present in cells before any 'evolution' takes place.
The complexity and arrangement of any of these functions is evidence of an intelligence outstripping any idea that mutation and time are responsible.

 

[Chihuahua]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST: FYI...

In my 1980's college biology textbook, there is a drawing of embryos that all appear the same. They are all animal embryos except one, which is supposed to be a human embryo. But it is fake. The drawing was done by an evolutionist over 100 years ago, and that drawing is still put in modern school textbooks.

Haeckel’s Fraudulent Embryo Drawings Are Still Present in Biology Textbooks — Here’s a List

Since the 19th century these illustrations have been used to support the hypothesis of universal common ancestry.

scienceandculture.com

That reveals how evolutionists have no problem telling LIES to attempt to support Darwin's theory of the evolution of species.

Lots of dead baby pictures before they had the technology to look.

I have never told anyone my secret
I have a tail bone. No idea where that came from.



Sick! Poacher done cut off their tails.



Go ahead, touch it. It is there.

 

[Chihuahua]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST: FYI...

In my 1980's college biology textbook, there is a drawing of embryos that all appear the same. They are all animal embryos except one, which is supposed to be a human embryo. But it is fake. The drawing was done by an evolutionist over 100 years ago, and that drawing is still put in modern school textbooks.

Haeckel’s Fraudulent Embryo Drawings Are Still Present in Biology Textbooks — Here’s a List

Since the 19th century these illustrations have been used to support the hypothesis of universal common ancestry.

scienceandculture.com

That reveals how evolutionists have no problem telling LIES to attempt to support Darwin's theory of the evolution of species.

Oh look, a series of fetal pictures through technology and not hand drawn by dead babies that miscarried.

 

[GodsGrace]

You do know cells divide and become two cells, which become four cells? When you cut yourself and you are healed, where do you think that skin came from?

Haploid cells, sperm and egg, become a single cell.... which divides... over... and over... and over. 9 month later a baby is born.


None of those have any relevance.

HOW does a mutation occur?
It would be information getting to a cell that would cause a Change.

How many generations of change are necessary before it's a Mutation?

Biology is also experiencing problems.
Do you also not trust Dr. Noble?

 

[Chihuahua]

HOW does a mutation occur?

It can be a number of things. Sometimes things just aren't copied right. It isn't perfect, it is a chemical reaction. Radiation can be a big one, even sunlight. That is why you don't go drinking plutonium or stay out in the sun too long. Other environment factors include air pollution, smoking. Sometimes it just happens, which can be helpful, neutral, or harmful.

What is interesting is that bacteria did not have the ability to reproduce sexually. You know why there are virii? Bacteria sent out their own DNA to infect the plasmids of other bacteria. Early bacterial life, and to this day, is a nice little potluck of DNA.

It would be information getting to a cell that would cause a Change.

No, me taking a baseball bat to a mailbox is a change, or me adjusting a picture is a change. There is no information added per se. With insertions yes, deletions, yes. Information is really a simple term. Kids with downs have "extra information" using that poor analogy which is why only creationist usually use it.

How many generations of change are necessary before it's a Mutation?

A mutation can be spontaneous. They are happening in your body all the time, for any number of reasons. Sometimes the cell goes CRAZY, but it has a self destruct mechanism and it works pretty well... usually.

Biology is also experiencing problems.

I am not sure what you mean. If by problems you mean when you have a closed minded view of the world that rests upon a made up religious view posing as scripture and you only discuss such matters with people of similar view, I can understand that.

Do you also not trust Dr. Noble?

I am sure there is more than one Dr. Noble.

 

[quietthinker]

It can be a number of things. Sometimes things just aren't copied right. It isn't perfect, it is a chemical reaction. Radiation can be a big one, even sunlight. That is why you don't go drinking plutonium or stay out in the sun too long. Other environment factors include air pollution, smoking. Sometimes it just happens, which can be helpful, neutral, or harmful.

What is interesting is that bacteria did not have the ability to reproduce sexually. You know why there are virii? Bacteria sent out their own DNA to infect the plasmids of other bacteria. Early bacterial life, and to this day, is a nice little potluck of DNA.



No, me taking a baseball bat to a mailbox is a change, or me adjusting a picture is a change. There is no information added per se. With insertions yes, deletions, yes. Information is really a simple term. Kids with downs have "extra information" using that poor analogy which is why only creationist usually use it.


A mutation can be spontaneous. They are happening in your body all the time, for any number of reasons. Sometimes the cell goes CRAZY, but it has a self destruct mechanism and it works pretty well... usually.


I am not sure what you mean. If by problems you mean when you have a closed minded view of the world that rests upon a made up religious view posing as scripture and you only discuss such matters with people of similar view, I can understand that.


I am sure there is more than one Dr. Noble.

The thing is, it's not about evidence in spite of it being argued that it is. It's about the preferred choice.
Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus to make this point of choice.... 'if they don't believe Moses and the Prophets, they wont believe even if one rose from the dead'. Luke 16:31

 

[Chihuahua]

The thing is, it's not about evidence in spite of it being argued that it is. It's about the preferred choice.

How is a religious belief based on a weird interpretation of something not meant as an empirically valid statement, but one of meaning and a deeper understanding of God a matter of preferred choice?

If God wanted a science book at the time, He did a really poor job. He left all kinds of evidence in DNA itself of something else.
OR, God wrote something that is spiritual, a revelation not of Alternative Current vs Direct Current or how to produce a nuclear reactor, but guided us with the wisdom of meaning.