I was deeply grieved to watch the fake Pretrib claims re the early Church fathers on this video. I skipped the twisting of Scripture in the first part. That is because it has been so resolutely and repeatedly debunked over the years.
Pretribbers are no longer content at butchering the Word of God (and adding on to the Bible by forcing their teaching on the inspired text), they are now resorting to twisting the teaching of the early Church fathers, none of whom knew or promoted Pretrib. This is therefore an underhand rewriting of history. @rebuilder 454 has presented this video but is (not surprising) in capable of supporting any of the claims. All he can do is ignore my rebuttals. That is because he has no answers to the historic facts. Let us address the claims.
Eusebius
Fragments on Luke
“And just as happened in the days of Noah…” As was stated, he says that the destruction of the wicked will take place like it did for those who lived at the time of the flood, since the message of the gospel had been driven out due to their apostasy. Indeed, just as he destroyed all people then, except those who had gone with Noah into the ark, so too at his coming he will shut out and destroy as in the days of Noah the ungodly and unfaithful, who waste their time on luxury, sex, drink, and the pleasures of this life. So that no one would think these too will perish through water, he needed also to use the example of Lot— “Just as it happened in the days of Lot: ‘they were eating, drinking etc.’ but on the day that Lot left Sodom, he rained fire from heaven and destroyed everyone. It will be the same on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.” He thereby teaches that unspeakably terrible wrath will come upon all the wicked as fire and brimstone sent from heaven. Thus, the word of the prophet is extended to the wicked who pray for that day to come — “Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord!” Why? “it will be darkness to you, and not light; a day of darkness and shadow, a day of dispair and disgrace.” Savior was extremely precise in his observation when he said that the divine fire from heaven did not come down upon the wicked in Sodom until Lot went out and was separated from them. It was the same way at the flood, when he came and destroyed all the inhabitants of the earth only after Noah had entered the ark. He says that it will be the same at the end of the age: the cataclysm of destruction for the wicked will not occur until those men found to belong to God are gathered into the heavenly ark, in accordance with the example of Noah. To these this word of the prophet will be spoken: “Go, my people, enter into your inner room… until the wrath of the Lord passes by” Now just as in the time of Lot he acted so that the righteous did not perish along with the wicked, so at the end of age this destruction will not take place until all the righteous and God-fearing men on the earth are separated from the wicked and gathered into God’s heavenly ark. So when no righteous man can any longer be found among men, but all are godless, impious, and born from the antichrist and apostasy rules throughout the whole world, then the wrath of God will come upon the wicked.
This couldn’t be clearer. The elect (the Church) are caught up before God pours out His wrath upon the wicked. This is the final separation. Please see here: all the righteous are rescued. All the wicked are destroyed. This negates Pretrib Premillennialism and Posttrib Premillennialism that both promote human mortal survivors of the pouring out of God’s wrath who populate their supposed future 7 year trib or their supposed future millennium.
“where the body is, there the vultures will gather.”
The disciples had asked, “Lord, where?” because they wanted to know where those not taken would be left. He said in reply, “where the body is” (or “the corpse”, as in Matthew) “there the vultures will gather.” By mentioning birds that feed on the dead, he hints at the rulers of this age, who at that time will persecute the holy ones of God. When these rulers gather together, the one unworthy of being taken will be gathered into their presence. This person is the other of those sleeping on the bed, and the other one of the women grinding grain. They will be handed over to the vultures gathered against them. The word of the prophet also calls those besieging Jerusalem vultures, like when it says of Nebuchadnezzar, “The great and great-winged vulture.” Perhaps by another interpretation the eagles refer to the powers of punishment and retribution who will come upon the ungodly. The Savior follows by exhorting us to persist in prayer, so that we will not be handed over to them.
All that is left on earth is death and destruction. No one survives. The vultures here feed on the corpses of the unregenerate.
Irenaeus
Against Heresies Book V, Chapter XXXIV:
And again the same speaks thus: “These things saith the Lord, I will gather Israel from all nations whither they have been driven, and I shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the sons of the nations: and they shall dwell in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell in it in peace; and they shall build houses, and plant vineyards, and dwell in hope, when I shall cause judgment to fall among all who have dishonoured them, among those who encircle them round about; and they shall know that I am the Lord their God, and the God of their fathers.” Now I have shown a short time ago that the church is the seed of Abraham; and for this reason, that we may know that He who in the New Testament “raises up from the stones children unto Abraham,” is He who will gather, according to the Old Testament, those that shall be saved from all the nations, Jeremiah says: “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, who led the children of Israel from the north, and from every region whither they had been driven; He will restore them to their own land which He gave to their fathers.”
Irenaeus places the Old Testament Church and the New Testament Church under one umbrella. He shows that the Church is true Israel!
Against Heresies Book V, Chapter XXXII:2.
Thus, then, the promise of God, which He gave to Abraham, remains stedfast. For thus He said: “Lift up thine eyes, and look from this place where now thou art, towards the north and south, and east and west. For all the earth which thou seest, I will give to thee and to thy seed, even for ever.” And again He says, “Arise, and go through the length and breadth of the land, since I will give it unto thee;” and [yet] he did not receive an inheritance in it, not even a footstep, but was always a stranger and a pilgrim therein. And upon the death of Sarah his wife, when the Hittites were willing to bestow upon him a place where he might bury her, he declined it as a gift, but bought the burying-place (giving for it four hundred talents of silver) from Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite. Thus did he await patiently the promise of God, and was unwilling to appear to receive from men, what God had promised to give him, when He said again to him as follows: “I will give this land to thy seed, from the river of Egypt even unto the great river Euphrates.”
If, then, God promised him the inheritance of the land, yet he did not receive it during all the time of his sojourn there, it must be, that together with his seed, that is, those who fear God and believe in Him, he shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For his seed is the Church, which receives the adoption to God through the Lord, as John the Baptist said: “For God is able from the stones to raise up children to Abraham.” Thus also the apostle says in the Epistle to the Galatians: “But ye, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of the promise.” And again, in the same Epistle, he plainly declares that they who have believed in Christ do receive Christ, the promise to Abraham thus saying, “The promises were spoken to Abraham, and to his seed. Now He does not say, And of seeds, as if [He spake] of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” And again, confirming his former words, he says, “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore, that they which are of faith are the children of Abraham. But the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, declared to Abraham beforehand, That in thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham.” Thus, then, they who are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham, and these are the children of Abraham. Now God made promise of the earth to Abraham and his seed; yet neither Abraham nor his seed, that is, those who are justified by faith, do now receive any inheritance in it; but they shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For God is true and faithful; and on this account He said, “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”
Irenaeus refers to the Abrahamic covenant and spiritualizes it to relate to the Church, not national Israel. Abraham is presented as experiencing this promise with all the people of God throughout the ages when Jesus comes.
Pretribbers are no longer content at butchering the Word of God (and adding on to the Bible by forcing their teaching on the inspired text), they are now resorting to twisting the teaching of the early Church fathers, none of whom knew or promoted Pretrib. This is therefore an underhand rewriting of history. @rebuilder 454 has presented this video but is (not surprising) in capable of supporting any of the claims. All he can do is ignore my rebuttals. That is because he has no answers to the historic facts. Let us address the claims.
Eusebius
Fragments on Luke
“And just as happened in the days of Noah…” As was stated, he says that the destruction of the wicked will take place like it did for those who lived at the time of the flood, since the message of the gospel had been driven out due to their apostasy. Indeed, just as he destroyed all people then, except those who had gone with Noah into the ark, so too at his coming he will shut out and destroy as in the days of Noah the ungodly and unfaithful, who waste their time on luxury, sex, drink, and the pleasures of this life. So that no one would think these too will perish through water, he needed also to use the example of Lot— “Just as it happened in the days of Lot: ‘they were eating, drinking etc.’ but on the day that Lot left Sodom, he rained fire from heaven and destroyed everyone. It will be the same on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.” He thereby teaches that unspeakably terrible wrath will come upon all the wicked as fire and brimstone sent from heaven. Thus, the word of the prophet is extended to the wicked who pray for that day to come — “Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord!” Why? “it will be darkness to you, and not light; a day of darkness and shadow, a day of dispair and disgrace.” Savior was extremely precise in his observation when he said that the divine fire from heaven did not come down upon the wicked in Sodom until Lot went out and was separated from them. It was the same way at the flood, when he came and destroyed all the inhabitants of the earth only after Noah had entered the ark. He says that it will be the same at the end of the age: the cataclysm of destruction for the wicked will not occur until those men found to belong to God are gathered into the heavenly ark, in accordance with the example of Noah. To these this word of the prophet will be spoken: “Go, my people, enter into your inner room… until the wrath of the Lord passes by” Now just as in the time of Lot he acted so that the righteous did not perish along with the wicked, so at the end of age this destruction will not take place until all the righteous and God-fearing men on the earth are separated from the wicked and gathered into God’s heavenly ark. So when no righteous man can any longer be found among men, but all are godless, impious, and born from the antichrist and apostasy rules throughout the whole world, then the wrath of God will come upon the wicked.
This couldn’t be clearer. The elect (the Church) are caught up before God pours out His wrath upon the wicked. This is the final separation. Please see here: all the righteous are rescued. All the wicked are destroyed. This negates Pretrib Premillennialism and Posttrib Premillennialism that both promote human mortal survivors of the pouring out of God’s wrath who populate their supposed future 7 year trib or their supposed future millennium.
“where the body is, there the vultures will gather.”
The disciples had asked, “Lord, where?” because they wanted to know where those not taken would be left. He said in reply, “where the body is” (or “the corpse”, as in Matthew) “there the vultures will gather.” By mentioning birds that feed on the dead, he hints at the rulers of this age, who at that time will persecute the holy ones of God. When these rulers gather together, the one unworthy of being taken will be gathered into their presence. This person is the other of those sleeping on the bed, and the other one of the women grinding grain. They will be handed over to the vultures gathered against them. The word of the prophet also calls those besieging Jerusalem vultures, like when it says of Nebuchadnezzar, “The great and great-winged vulture.” Perhaps by another interpretation the eagles refer to the powers of punishment and retribution who will come upon the ungodly. The Savior follows by exhorting us to persist in prayer, so that we will not be handed over to them.
All that is left on earth is death and destruction. No one survives. The vultures here feed on the corpses of the unregenerate.
Irenaeus
Against Heresies Book V, Chapter XXXIV:
And again the same speaks thus: “These things saith the Lord, I will gather Israel from all nations whither they have been driven, and I shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the sons of the nations: and they shall dwell in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell in it in peace; and they shall build houses, and plant vineyards, and dwell in hope, when I shall cause judgment to fall among all who have dishonoured them, among those who encircle them round about; and they shall know that I am the Lord their God, and the God of their fathers.” Now I have shown a short time ago that the church is the seed of Abraham; and for this reason, that we may know that He who in the New Testament “raises up from the stones children unto Abraham,” is He who will gather, according to the Old Testament, those that shall be saved from all the nations, Jeremiah says: “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, who led the children of Israel from the north, and from every region whither they had been driven; He will restore them to their own land which He gave to their fathers.”
Irenaeus places the Old Testament Church and the New Testament Church under one umbrella. He shows that the Church is true Israel!
Against Heresies Book V, Chapter XXXII:2.
Thus, then, the promise of God, which He gave to Abraham, remains stedfast. For thus He said: “Lift up thine eyes, and look from this place where now thou art, towards the north and south, and east and west. For all the earth which thou seest, I will give to thee and to thy seed, even for ever.” And again He says, “Arise, and go through the length and breadth of the land, since I will give it unto thee;” and [yet] he did not receive an inheritance in it, not even a footstep, but was always a stranger and a pilgrim therein. And upon the death of Sarah his wife, when the Hittites were willing to bestow upon him a place where he might bury her, he declined it as a gift, but bought the burying-place (giving for it four hundred talents of silver) from Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite. Thus did he await patiently the promise of God, and was unwilling to appear to receive from men, what God had promised to give him, when He said again to him as follows: “I will give this land to thy seed, from the river of Egypt even unto the great river Euphrates.”
If, then, God promised him the inheritance of the land, yet he did not receive it during all the time of his sojourn there, it must be, that together with his seed, that is, those who fear God and believe in Him, he shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For his seed is the Church, which receives the adoption to God through the Lord, as John the Baptist said: “For God is able from the stones to raise up children to Abraham.” Thus also the apostle says in the Epistle to the Galatians: “But ye, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of the promise.” And again, in the same Epistle, he plainly declares that they who have believed in Christ do receive Christ, the promise to Abraham thus saying, “The promises were spoken to Abraham, and to his seed. Now He does not say, And of seeds, as if [He spake] of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” And again, confirming his former words, he says, “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore, that they which are of faith are the children of Abraham. But the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, declared to Abraham beforehand, That in thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham.” Thus, then, they who are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham, and these are the children of Abraham. Now God made promise of the earth to Abraham and his seed; yet neither Abraham nor his seed, that is, those who are justified by faith, do now receive any inheritance in it; but they shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. For God is true and faithful; and on this account He said, “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”
Irenaeus refers to the Abrahamic covenant and spiritualizes it to relate to the Church, not national Israel. Abraham is presented as experiencing this promise with all the people of God throughout the ages when Jesus comes.
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