THE GOSPEL AND HEALING

[Doug]

And yet there is no evidence to deny them.

How can something have evidence for what didnt happen?

 

[Doug]

You must decide if the early church was lying or not. that is your only choice. eeither these reports by the 1st and 2nd century are true or they are not!

What Are the Historical and Modern Implications of Stolen Relics and Fake Church Art in Catholic Church Scandals?

The veneration of relics in the Catholic Church dates back to the early centuries of Christianity, rooted in the belief that the physical remains of saints or objects associated with them carry…

www.catholicshare.com

The proliferation of fake relics has been a persistent issue, with some estimates suggesting that the majority of relics in medieval churches were fraudulent. A notable example is the case of St. Rosalia’s bones in Palermo, Italy, which were venerated as relics until 1825, when geologist William Buckland identified them as goat bones. This revelation did not lead to their removal, as the local church continued to display them, reflecting the difficulty of retracting long-held traditions.

Read more at: What Are the Historical and Modern Implications of Stolen Relics and Fake Church Art in Catholic Church Scandals?

 

[Doug]

You are so wrong about Peter. He received the Holy Spirit indwelling him, which makes him part of the church! so you are saying that believing Jews now aren't part of the church but some separate group.

Peter was a member of the believing remnant of Israel not the body of Christ. Peter was part of the church Paul persecuted.
[1 Corinthians 15:9 KJV] "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Nothing to say about what I wrote to rebut Rev 14:4 describing the 144k?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How can something have evidence for what didnt happen?

YOu seem to forget that dhurch history was written by the church. Teh world had little to no interest in recording tehr deeds of the church until Rome took control of Europe.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What Are the Historical and Modern Implications of Stolen Relics and Fake Church Art in Catholic Church Scandals?

The veneration of relics in the Catholic Church dates back to the early centuries of Christianity, rooted in the belief that the physical remains of saints or objects associated with them carry…

www.catholicshare.com

The proliferation of fake relics has been a persistent issue, with some estimates suggesting that the majority of relics in medieval churches were fraudulent. A notable example is the case of St. Rosalia’s bones in Palermo, Italy, which were venerated as relics until 1825, when geologist William Buckland identified them as goat bones. This revelation did not lead to their removal, as the local church continued to display them, reflecting the difficulty of retracting long-held traditions.

Read more at: What Are the Historical and Modern Implications of Stolen Relics and Fake Church Art in Catholic Church Scandals?

RElics are one thing. That is a market thing. church history is another. If you wish to deny church history, you need to show cause why you believe it false or unverified. Remember the world is not going to write about teh travels of apostles.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Peter was a member of the believing remnant of Israel not the body of Christ. Peter was part of the church Paul persecuted.
[1 Corinthians 15:9 KJV] "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Nothing to say about what I wrote to rebut Rev 14:4 describing the 144k?

So you believe all Jews that accept christ are not part of the church. If you don't what standard do you use to determine which Jew is part of trhe church and which Jew is not.

How can I rebut your own personal opinion? The 144,000 were sealed for service during teh tribulation period, not the millennial. did Grace Ambassadors teach you that hypothesis?

Rev. 7 clearly shows these are sealed for service and evangelism. Also in the Millennial kingdom Jesus is not going to hurt the earth, He is going to reign over a paradise! So this concept is a huge fail biblically.

 

[Doug]

RElics are one thing. That is a market thing. church history is another. If you wish to deny church history, you need to show cause why you believe it false or unverified. Remember the world is not going to write about teh travels of apostles.

Fraudulent relics point to the unreliability of the church to deal honestly with church history
I dont care to pursue this, you can think what you care to about this

 

[Doug]

So you believe all Jews that accept christ are not part of the church.

Which church are we talking about. The church Christ formed on earth which is the little flock, the believing remnant of Israel, Or the church formed by Christ thru Paul?
No matter, believing Jews who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve or believing Jews who believed the gospel of Paul both are in the church.

 

[Doug]

How can I rebut your own personal opinion?

You gave your interpolation of Rev 14:4 to rebut my contention of Peter being in the 144k because he wasnt a virgin
You can rebut me by giving me corrective scripture, otherwise we can conclude that Peter could be raised to be in the 144k

 

[Doug]

Rev. 7 clearly shows these are sealed for service and evangelism. Also in the Millennial kingdom Jesus is not going to hurt the earth, He is going to reign over a paradise! So this concept is a huge fail biblically.

The 144k are witnesses in the tribulation NOT the millennial kingdom

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Which church are we talking about. The church Christ formed on earth which is the little flock, the believing remnant of Israel, Or the church formed by Christ thru Paul?
No matter, believing Jews who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve or believing Jews who believed the gospel of Paul both are in the church.

They are all one church. There are no multiple bodies of christ no matter what Grace Ambassadors teach

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You gave your interpolation of Rev 14:4 to rebut my contention of Peter being in the 144k because he wasnt a virgin
You can rebut me by giving me corrective scripture, otherwise we can conclude that Peter could be raised to be in the 144k

No He can't. There is no biblical evidence at all to show that any of the 144,000 are resurrected jewish believers. You are so big on citing Scripture alone without any external proofs so why does that not settle it for you?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 144k are witnesses in the tribulation NOT the millennial kingdom

The 144k are witnesses in the tribulation NOT the millennial kingdom

I already knew that. So where is your biblical proof that Jesus is going to resurrect dead jewish believers to be in teh 144,000?

 

[Doug]

They are all one church. There are no multiple bodies of christ no matter what Grace Ambassadors teach

There are no bodies of Christ, but there was the church formed under Christ before he formed the body of Christ

 

[Doug]

No He can't. There is no biblical evidence at all to show that any of the 144,000 are resurrected jewish believers. You are so big on citing Scripture alone without any external proofs so why does that not settle it for you?

I am not being dogmatic about the 144k being resurrected saints, just a consideration

 

[Doug]

I already knew that. So where is your biblical proof that Jesus is going to resurrect dead jewish believers to be in teh 144,000?

Just a possibility that does fit in scripture but not stated

 

[Doug]

I already knew that. So where is your biblical proof that Jesus is going to resurrect dead jewish believers to be in teh 144,000?

Who do you say the 144k are

 

[Doug]

They are all one church. There are no multiple bodies of christ no matter what Grace Ambassadors teach

Paul calls the Corinthian church the body of Christ.............[1 Corinthians 12:27 KJV] "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.".............The body of Christ inherits the heavenly..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:"

Jesus said he was forming his church............[Matthew 16:18 KJV] "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.".............Jesus didnt call his church the body of Christ, he called it the little flock........[Luke 12:32 KJV] "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."

Look at this verse again................[Luke 12:32 KJV] "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.".....this little flock church will inherit the kingdom on earth and reign with Christ a thousand years........[Matthew 5:5 KJV] "Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."
[Revelation 20:6 KJV] "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."................The disciples werent looking for a heavenly kingdom, they were asking when the previous Davidic kingdom on earth would be restored..................[Acts 1:6 KJV] "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"............. if there is just one church, and the little flock is part of it and this church inherits the earthly kingdom, then who will be in heaven? Does scripture say some of the body of Christ inherits the kingdom on earth and some inherit heaven?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There are no bodies of Christ, but there was the church formed under Christ before he formed the body of Christ

The church is the body of Christ! If you cannot see that then we must conclude this talk. It will serve no profit.

Ephesians 3:6
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 4:11-12

King James Version

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11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Just a possibility that does fit in scripture but not stated

If it is not stated then what evidence do you propose to show it is some shadowy implication.

You reject church history because it is not verified, why should we accept your theory if it is not to be found stated in Scripture.