THE GOSPEL AND HEALING

[Doug]

Also Paul in Romans expressly said belief on His name would save you

[2 Timothy 2:19 KJV] "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
[1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV] "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"
[1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV] "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

He said we call on his name but NOT for salvation. We are saved by believing his gospel

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The twelve preached the gospel of the kingdom which was the millennial kingdom was at hand. If it being preached today it would be the wrong gospel. Paul's gospel is for this dispensation. The gospel of the kingdom will be preached again in the tribulation.

They preached it only until Matt. 12. If you read the gospels, you would see that.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[2 Timothy 2:19 KJV] "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
[1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV] "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"
[1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV] "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

He said we call on his name but NOT for salvation. We are saved by believing his gospel

You re3ally do not know the Scriptures.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Doug]

They preached it only until Matt. 12. If you read the gospels, you would see that.

What did they preach afterwards and why did they ask if the kingdom was going to be restored..........[Acts 1:6 KJV] "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

 

[Doug]

You re3ally do not know the Scriptures.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling on his name is only found in Joel a prophet of Israel

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What did they preach afterwards and why did they ask if the kingdom was going to be restored..........[Acts 1:6 KJV] "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

Because simply, they were still waiting for the kingdom. Jesus told them that was in the Fathers hands, but they were to go into the world:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

And they did testify of Jesus, His deity, His death and resurrection for sin.

Let me ask you this because you have said if it is not in Scripture, it probably didn't happen.

Did the Apostles go to teh bathroom? Did they take baths? Outside of the garden of Gethsemane did they sleep at all? It is not declared in Scripture!

Calling on his name is only found in Joel a prophet of Israel

Wrong I quoted Paul in romans 10! Learn the bible instead of vomiting what others force feed you.

 

[Doug]

Because simply, they were still waiting for the kingdom. Jesus told them that was in the Fathers hands, but they were to go into the world:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

And they did testify of Jesus, His deity, His death and resurrection for sin.

Let me ask you this because you have said if it is not in Scripture, it probably didn't happen.

Did the Apostles go to teh bathroom? Did they take baths? Outside of the garden of Gethsemane did they sleep at all? It is not declared in Scripture!

Wrong I quoted Paul in romans 10! Learn the bible instead of vomiting what others force feed you.

Is this the verse you are talking about?
[Romans 10:13 KJV] "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
If it is Paul is quoting Joel

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is this the verse you are talking about?
[Romans 10:13 KJV] "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
If it is Paul is quoting Joel

Doesn't matter. Paul declared it and it is true!

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

And the context doesn't even imply he is quoting Joel! For Joel was talking about Israelis. Paul is talking about all people!

 

[Doug]

Doesn't matter. Paul declared it and it is true!

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

And the context doesn't even imply he is quoting Joel! For Joel was talking about Israelis. Paul is talking about all people!

Paul is talking about Israel
Israel had to confess his name under their covenant..............................
[Leviticus 26:40 KJV] "If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;"
[1 Kings 8:33 KJV] "When thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee, and shall turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto thee in this house:"
[2 Chronicles 6:24 KJV] "And if thy people Israel be put to the worse before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee; and shall return and confess thy name, and pray and make supplication before thee in this house;"
[Matthew 10:32 KJV] "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul is talking about Israel
Israel had to confess his name under their covenant..............................
[Leviticus 26:40 KJV] "If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;"
[1 Kings 8:33 KJV] "When thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee, and shall turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto thee in this house:"
[2 Chronicles 6:24 KJV] "And if thy people Israel be put to the worse before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee; and shall return and confess thy name, and pray and make supplication before thee in this house;"
[Matthew 10:32 KJV] "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven."

sorry but He was writing to the church in Rome which was comprised of Jew and Gentile in one body! Stop straining at gnats and swallowing camels!

 

[Doug]

sorry but He was writing to the church in Rome which was comprised of Jew and Gentile in one body! Stop straining at gnats and swallowing camels!

Do you think you have to confess Christ publicly?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you think you have to confess Christ publicly?

Just like teh bible says!

 

[Doug]

Just like teh bible says!

Just like teh bible says!

Then dont you think you are adding to only believing the gospel and Christ's redemption?

 

[Doug]

Just like teh bible says!

Just like teh bible says!

You can be Biblical but not dispensational. Confession was for Israel in the Bible not us
Are you going to thrown out of the synagogue for confessing Jesus is the Messiah the Son of God?

 

[LoveYeshua]

The twelve preached the gospel of the kingdom which was the millennial kingdom was at hand. If it being preached today it would be the wrong gospel. Paul's gospel is for this dispensation. The gospel of the kingdom will be preached again in the tribulation.

Doug your statement divides the gospel into different messages for different times, but Jesus never taught that. Jesus preached one gospel, and He said it was for all nations and for all time. He called it “the gospel of the kingdom,” and He never said it would expire, pause, or be replaced. Jesus said, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). That same call to repent, believe, and follow Him is repeated after His resurrection, not withdrawn. When Jesus sent the twelve out the final time, He did not tell them the message would later become wrong. He said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20). He also said, “This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14). That verse alone shows the gospel of the kingdom does not stop, does not change, and is not limited to Israel or to a future tribulation period.

The idea that the twelve preached a temporary gospel creates a problem, because Jesus said His words will judge mankind at the last day (John 12:48). If their message was only for one time period, then why would Jesus’ words judge everyone? The kingdom gospel is not just about a future millennium. It is about God’s rule beginning now in the hearts of those who obey Him and being completed when Christ returns. Jesus said, “The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), and He also spoke of the kingdom coming in fullness at the end. It is one kingdom, one message, unfolding in stages, not different gospels for different dispensations.

The prophets spoke the same way. Daniel saw one everlasting kingdom that would crush all others and stand forever (Daniel 2:44). Isaiah spoke of a kingdom of righteousness and obedience to God’s law (Isaiah 2:2–3). Jesus did not replace this message. He fulfilled it and brought it to the world.

There is no “wrong gospel” when the words come from Christ Himself. What is wrong is teaching that Jesus’ gospel had an expiration date. The gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and His disciples is the same gospel that saves today, and it will be the same gospel preached until He returns.

Doug, Jesus said the kingdom was “at hand” because God’s rule had arrived with Him. The King of Kings was standing in front of them! Through Jesus, God was calling people to repent, to obey, and to enter His reign now, not just wait for a future age. The kingdom was near because hearts could submit to God immediately, sins could be forgiven, and lives could be changed. The kingdom begins within those who hear His words and keep them, and it will be completed in full when He returns in glory.

 

[LoveYeshua]

[Galatians 2:2 KJV] "And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain."
All I know is he went to them by revelation. He says it was the gospel he preached, which means they werent preaching the same gospel.

Doug you are right to say they did not preach the same gospel. Paul’s role was different from the twelve, and even Paul himself admits this. The twelve preached what they had seen and heard directly from Jesus, His words, His actions, His miracles, His death and resurrection, because they were with Him from the beginning. Paul could not do that, because he was not there. Paul openly says this himself when he writes that he did not know Jesus “according to the flesh” and that he was not among those who walked with Him. He also says he was “as one born out of due time” and “the least of the apostles,” acknowledging that his experience was not the same as theirs. Jesus spoke to Paul after His resurrection and gave him instructions, but that did not replace or override what Jesus had already taught openly to the twelve during His earthly ministry. Paul could explain, argue, and defend the message to the nations, but he could not add new teachings from Jesus’ life that he never witnessed. That is why the foundation remains the words and works of Jesus, preached first by those who walked with Him, and anything Paul said must agree with what Jesus already taught.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Calling on his name is only found in Joel a prophet of Israel

Paul is told what to do after meeting Jesus, he is commanded, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). This shows that “calling on the name” is now clearly tied to Jesus, not only spoken once by a prophet long ago.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Do you think you have to confess Christ publicly?

before your Father In Heaven in your prayer!

 

[Doug]

Doug your statement divides the gospel into different messages for different times, but Jesus never taught that. Jesus preached one gospel, and He said it was for all nations and for all time. He called it “the gospel of the kingdom,” and He never said it would expire, pause, or be replaced. Jesus said, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). That same call to repent, believe, and follow Him is repeated after His resurrection, not withdrawn. When Jesus sent the twelve out the final time, He did not tell them the message would later become wrong. He said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20). He also said, “This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14). That verse alone shows the gospel of the kingdom does not stop, does not change, and is not limited to Israel or to a future tribulation period.

The idea that the twelve preached a temporary gospel creates a problem, because Jesus said His words will judge mankind at the last day (John 12:48). If their message was only for one time period, then why would Jesus’ words judge everyone? The kingdom gospel is not just about a future millennium. It is about God’s rule beginning now in the hearts of those who obey Him and being completed when Christ returns. Jesus said, “The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), and He also spoke of the kingdom coming in fullness at the end. It is one kingdom, one message, unfolding in stages, not different gospels for different dispensations.

The prophets spoke the same way. Daniel saw one everlasting kingdom that would crush all others and stand forever (Daniel 2:44). Isaiah spoke of a kingdom of righteousness and obedience to God’s law (Isaiah 2:2–3). Jesus did not replace this message. He fulfilled it and brought it to the world.

There is no “wrong gospel” when the words come from Christ Himself. What is wrong is teaching that Jesus’ gospel had an expiration date. The gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and His disciples is the same gospel that saves today, and it will be the same gospel preached until He returns.

Doug, Jesus said the kingdom was “at hand” because God’s rule had arrived with Him. The King of Kings was standing in front of them! Through Jesus, God was calling people to repent, to obey, and to enter His reign now, not just wait for a future age. The kingdom was near because hearts could submit to God immediately, sins could be forgiven, and lives could be changed. The kingdom begins within those who hear His words and keep them, and it will be completed in full when He returns in glory.

Doug your statement divides the gospel into different messages for different times, but Jesus never taught that

For you to say that reflects your lack of understanding scripture
If you read scripture it is readily apparent Jesus taught another message
You cant find Jesus preaching his death and resurrection for the salvation of all. He and the twelve preached only faith in his name which was for them to believe he was their Messiah the Son of God

The idea that the twelve preached a temporary gospel

Israel diminished and the earthly kingdom offer with it. The gospel of the kingdom will be preached again in the tribulation

Doug, Jesus said the kingdom was “at hand” because God’s rule had arrived with Him

If the kingdom arrived with Christ on earth then why did the disciples ask if he would restore it again? Why would they be looking for a kingdom that was already here?

 

[Doug]

Doug you are right to say they did not preach the same gospel. Paul’s role was different from the twelve, and even Paul himself admits this. The twelve preached what they had seen and heard directly from Jesus, His words, His actions, His miracles, His death and resurrection, because they were with Him from the beginning. Paul could not do that, because he was not there. Paul openly says this himself when he writes that he did not know Jesus “according to the flesh” and that he was not among those who walked with Him. He also says he was “as one born out of due time” and “the least of the apostles,” acknowledging that his experience was not the same as theirs. Jesus spoke to Paul after His resurrection and gave him instructions, but that did not replace or override what Jesus had already taught openly to the twelve during His earthly ministry. Paul could explain, argue, and defend the message to the nations, but he could not add new teachings from Jesus’ life that he never witnessed. That is why the foundation remains the words and works of Jesus, preached first by those who walked with Him, and anything Paul said must agree with what Jesus already taught.

As I stated elsewhere this idea makes Paul one of the twelve. He was just preaching a more complete gospel. The problem is exactly what you said, he wasnt with Jesus from the beginning and therefore could not be numbered with them

You said Paul couldnt say anything different. Jesus taught the law. Paul taught we arent under the law. Not the same