Focus On The Family

[Grailhunter]

Weather is good here re Paul it says this and research said he had scribes.
Romans 16:22 (KJV) I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.
Oh and forgot to mention God said scribes do lie. So we have to watch.

I did not say he never used scribes. What I am saying was that he was very educated and could read and write.

 

[amigo de christo]

Not sure why you would say that.
Paul was converted and started preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 9:3-43
And Peter was preaching to the Roman Centurion Cornelious in Acts 10:34-43 This was because an Angel told him to send for Peter.
Around 3 years later Peter Joined Paul's ministry to the Gentiles.

paul was converted in acts chapter nine , peter did first preach to the gentiles in acts ten .
And .
They both preach the gospel , the same one . what do it matter if it were paul or peter .
Specially when it seems so many are now running to that which is of anti christ and its ecumiencal interfaith .
Does it really matter in the end what one knew or didnt know if they end up serving anti christ . nope , not really .
I say that cause i see lots of debates , i also see lots of these debaters going under the same ecumeincal flow of anti christ .
But i do suppose paul could have also been preaching to the gentiles at first as well .
Do be encouraged grailhunter . And do beware of ecumeincalism .

 

[Grailhunter]

paul was converted in acts chapter nine , peter did first preach to the gentiles in acts ten .
And .
They both preach the gospel , the same one . what do it matter if it were paul or peter .
Specially when it seems so many are now running to that which is of anti christ and its ecumiencal interfaith .
Does it really matter in the end what one knew or didnt know if they end up serving anti christ . nope , not really .
I say that cause i see lots of debates , i also see lots of these debaters going under the same ecumeincal flow of anti christ .
But i do suppose paul could have also been preaching to the gentiles at first as well .
Do be encouraged grailhunter . And do beware of ecumeincalism .

For one the truth matters and as a Theologian I am a stickler for accuracy.
Peter's conversion from a Jewish-Christian to a Gentile-Christians\ was progressive. Evident by the number of times Paul had to correct him.
There is a significant difference in the message of the Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

 

[amigo de christo]

For one the truth matters and as a Theologian I am a stickler for accuracty.
Peter's conversion from a Jewish-Christian to a Gentile-Christians\ was progressive. Evident by the number of times Paul had to correct him.
There is a significant difference in the message of the Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

There is zero difference in the message of the jewish and gentile christains . Only differences in meats drinks and days
per say . but not the gospel , not sin either . Gospel identical . JESUS identical . And the kingdom is not earthen
but heavenly . What i say to one i say to all , and what i say to a jew i say to a gentile .
NO faith in JESUS means NO FAITH IN GOD and whether jew or whether gentile all will wail
who deny JESUS is the CHRIST . And that be a fact .

 

[amigo de christo]

For one the truth matters and as a Theologian I am a stickler for accuracty.
Peter's conversion from a Jewish-Christian to a Gentile-Christians\ was progressive. Evident by the number of times Paul had to correct him.
There is a significant difference in the message of the Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians.

Well if you are half the stickler you say you are for accuracy
YOU would never once even begin to head into the direction of ecumiencal intefaith interreligious dialogue .
THAT be of anti christ . And that IS a fact . so if you are the stickler you claim , Warn against that atrosicious
pile of evil and get all far from it . Just a friendly , oh but a dire necessary , reminder for all who breathes air .

 

[Grailhunter]

There is zero difference in the message of the jewish and gentile christains

You could not be more wrong.
The Jewish-Christians thought you had to circumcised and follow the Mosaic Law to be Christian. The Jewish-Christians still worshipped and sacrificed animals in the Temple. The Jewish-Christians were observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath and of course observed the Jewish dietary Kosher restrictions. The Gentile-Christians were not allowed in the Temp. Jewish-Christians still practiced Polygamy. Did not have wedding ceremonies.

The Gentile-Christians did not require circumcision or observe the Mosaic Law and of course Jewish dietary restrictions. Their weekly holy day was the day that Yeshua resurrected, calling it the Lord's Day on Sunday. The Gentile-Christians brought the custom of wedding ceremonies into Christianity, and some Christian voluntarily had weddings. Jewish-Christians continued the practice of a Letter of Divorcement.

The process of salvation between the two group was the same except they had to circumcised before baptism. The Gentile observed the teachings of Paul and Peter. Gentile-Christians did not have a process for divorcement. In fact the word divorce does not appear outside the four Gospels.

 

[stevesonthebay]

That would be a great thing. Now show the scriptures that say that.

I am not sure what you want me to shw. That gentiles were saved before Paul came along. As mentioned we have Cornelius the Centurion in Acts 10 who Peter preaches the gospel to. We have the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8. Phillip preached and baptised the high ranking Ethiopian official.

Following the martyrdom of Stephen, believers fled Jerusalem and spread the word throughout Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch. [1, 2]. Unnamed disciples who were scattered by persecution traveled as far as Antioch, establishing a major early Christian community. This church grew so large that the apostles sent Barnabas to investigate, who then brought Paul to Antioch to help teach the growing congregation. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

If its that it is the holy spirit that is the teacher with the same gospel for all including Paul. Even Paul admonishes the crowd in Antioch for making Paul and Barnabas like Gods. He then proclaims the gospel and that he is only a messager (Acts 14)

It was the same Spirit who showed Peter that the gentiles were included after recieving the holy spirit just as the disciples did (Acts 10).

Plus Christ sent out the other disiciples and an additional 70 or 72 who went out into the world to preach the gospel. Tradition has most of them being the founders and first bishops of places all over the empire and into the east (Luke 10:1-23).

If Jesus sent them out then thats well before Paul who came around 3 plus years later. Which means they went to areas outside Judea such as Cyprus, Alexandria, Rome, Cathage, Macedonia, Syris ect and preached the gospel to non Jews.

​

 

[Cyd]

@Grailhunter
Two things on your writing. I differ with you re Paul correcting Peter, it was the other way around Peter correcting Paul. The other thing you mention about Jewish Christians requiring circumcision, so you agree the USA was settled by Jewish Christians then right? as over 70% are circumcised in this country. Yet they say it is a gentile nation Christians tend to call themselves that here.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am not sure what you want me to shw. That gentiles were saved before Paul came along. As mentioned we have Cornelius the Centurion in Acts 10 who Peter preaches the gospel to. We have the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8. Phillip preached and baptised the high ranking Ethiopian official.

Following the martyrdom of Stephen, believers fled Jerusalem and spread the word throughout Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch. [1, 2]. Unnamed disciples who were scattered by persecution traveled as far as Antioch, establishing a major early Christian community. This church grew so large that the apostles sent Barnabas to investigate, who then brought Paul to Antioch to help teach the growing congregation. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

If its that it is the holy spirit that is the teacher with the same gospel for all including Paul. Even Paul admonishes the crowd in Antioch for making Paul and Barnabas like Gods. He then proclaims the gospel and that he is only a messager (Acts 14)

It was the same Spirit who showed Peter that the gentiles were included after recieving the holy spirit just as the disciples did (Acts 10).

Plus Christ sent out the other disiciples and an additional 70 or 72 who went out into the world to preach the gospel. Tradition has most of them being the founders and first bishops of places all over the empire and into the east (Luke 10:1-23).

If Jesus sent them out then thats well before Paul who came around 3 plus years later. Which means they went to areas outside Judea such as Cyprus, Alexandria, Rome, Cathage, Macedonia, Syris ect and preached the gospel to non Jews.

​

​

Sure they had missions but the scriptures do not speak of a mission to save the Gentiles. Of course there can be exceptions but it is a big change when Paul's ministry goes for the Gentiles....It is an obvious change.
About the Ethiopian Eunuch, there is no real agreement as to what he was.
The Ethiopian was a Jewish proselyte?
Given the definitions below and assuming those are accurate, how can we ascertain whether the Ethiopian eunuch was a proselyte or just a devout, God-fearing man (Gentile sympathizer)?

• If a Proselyte, how do we reconcile this with the fact that this would require the Ethiopian to get circumcised to convert to Judaism, which he could not, considering his physical condition?
• If a Gentile sympathizer, how do we reconcile this with Acts 10 account where Cornelius is assumed to be the first Gentile converted to Christianity? Peter's initial reluctance to visit him (Acts 10:28) demonstrates that Cornelius was considered to be a Gentile sympathizer.

There is an obvious struggle in the story line about converting Gentiles to Christianity.
That is what the meeting in Acts Chapter 15 is about.
And most people that understand the Bible know that the ministry to the Gentiles was Paul's
If we found a scripture that said the twelve Apostle spread the world among the Gentiles, it would pretty much disrupt the storyline.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter
Two things on your writing. I differ with you re Paul correcting Peter, it was the other way around Peter correcting Paul. The other thing you mention about Jewish Christians requiring circumcision, so you agree the USA was settled by Jewish Christians then right? as over 70% are circumcised in this country. Yet they say it is a gentile nation Christians tend to call themselves that here.

Circumcised for religious reasons.
And if you do not believe me that Jewish Christians required circumcision to be a Christian.....Acts up to chapter 15 will give you the history of the harassment Paul endured and the meeting that settled it.
It was Paul's ministry and Peter joined it...As far as if Paul corrected Peter......

Did Paul Disagree with Peter?​

Yes — in the New Testament account, Paul and Peter did disagree, and their disagreement was significant enough to be recorded in Paul’s letter to the Galatians.

The conflict took place in Antioch and is described in Galatians 2:11–14. At first, Peter ate with Gentile believers who were not circumcised, showing fellowship without requiring them to follow Jewish customs. However, when some Jewish believers from James arrived, Peter withdrew from table fellowship with the Gentiles, fearing criticism from those who insisted Gentiles must be circumcised to be fully accepted into the Christian community Bible Gateway+1.

Paul saw this as a serious compromise of the gospel. He confronted Peter “to his face” in front of the other believers, rebuking him for acting as if Gentiles had to adopt Jewish traditions to be part of God’s covenant. Paul’s point was that justification comes by faith in Christ, not by obeying the law, and that ethnic distinctions should not be reinstated Bible Gateway+1.

Scholars note that this was not a personal quarrel but a theological dispute over the nature of the gospel and the inclusion of Gentiles. Paul’s action was meant to preserve the truth that Gentile believers were accepted by grace, not by legal requirements Wikipedia+1.

In summary:

• Yes, Paul disagreed with Peter over how Gentile believers should be treated.
• The disagreement centered on whether Gentiles needed to follow Jewish customs (like circumcision) to be fully accepted.
• Paul’s public rebuke was to uphold the gospel message that salvation is by faith, not by law-keeping

God bless you....

 

[amigo de christo]

You could not be more wrong.
The Jewish-Christians thought you had to circumcised and follow the Mosaic Law to be Christian. The Jewish-Christians still worshipped and sacrificed animals in the Temple. The Jewish-Christians were observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath and of course observed the Jewish dietary Kosher restrictions. The Gentile-Christians were not allowed in the Temp. Jewish-Christians still practiced Polygamy. Did not have wedding ceremonies.

The Gentile-Christians did not require circumcision or observe the Mosaic Law and of course Jewish dietary restrictions. Their weekly holy day was the day that Yeshua resurrected, calling it the Lord's Day on Sunday. The Gentile-Christians brought the custom of wedding ceremonies into Christianity, and some Christian voluntarily had weddings. Jewish-Christians continued the practice of a Letter of Divorcement.

The process of salvation between the two group was the same except they had to circumcised before baptism. The Gentile observed the teachings of Paul and Peter. Gentile-Christians did not have a process for divorcement. In fact the word divorce does not appear outside the four Gospels.

i said meats drinks and days . i already know they were t rying to do that .
Meats , drinks , days , ceremonies , new mooons , sabbaths , etc .
The message is identical , same gospel to all . The difference is in the meats drinks days .

 

[amigo de christo]

Circumcised for religious reasons.
And if you do not believe me that Jewish Christians required circumcision to be a Christian.....Acts up to chapter 15 will give you the history of the harassment Paul endured and the meeting that settled it.
It was Paul's ministry and Peter joined it...As far as if Paul corrected Peter......

Did Paul Disagree with Peter?​

Yes — in the New Testament account, Paul and Peter did disagree, and their disagreement was significant enough to be recorded in Paul’s letter to the Galatians.

The conflict took place in Antioch and is described in Galatians 2:11–14. At first, Peter ate with Gentile believers who were not circumcised, showing fellowship without requiring them to follow Jewish customs. However, when some Jewish believers from James arrived, Peter withdrew from table fellowship with the Gentiles, fearing criticism from those who insisted Gentiles must be circumcised to be fully accepted into the Christian community Bible Gateway+1.

Paul saw this as a serious compromise of the gospel. He confronted Peter “to his face” in front of the other believers, rebuking him for acting as if Gentiles had to adopt Jewish traditions to be part of God’s covenant. Paul’s point was that justification comes by faith in Christ, not by obeying the law, and that ethnic distinctions should not be reinstated Bible Gateway+1.

Scholars note that this was not a personal quarrel but a theological dispute over the nature of the gospel and the inclusion of Gentiles. Paul’s action was meant to preserve the truth that Gentile believers were accepted by grace, not by legal requirements Wikipedia+1.

In summary:

• Yes, Paul disagreed with Peter over how Gentile believers should be treated.
• The disagreement centered on whether Gentiles needed to follow Jewish customs (like circumcision) to be fully accepted.
• Paul’s public rebuke was to uphold the gospel message that salvation is by faith, not by law-keeping

God bless you....

Not quite . Peter was messing up WITH BOTH THE JEW AND GENTILE .
HE was actually walking contrary to the gospel . He was putting a divison between the jew and the gentile
and he was doing it OUT OF FEAR of the circumcision . YES peter knew better , but had been afraid .
Paul was simply addressing this . The jew and the gentile never should be seperated
The only jew and gentile we part company with IS and are those who fail to recieve Christ .
And if any beleiver , whether jew or gentile be in sin , THEN we also put them out , TILL they repent .

 

[Grailhunter]

i said meats drinks and days . i already know they were t rying to do that .
Meats , drinks , days , ceremonies , new mooons , sabbaths , etc .
The message is identical , same gospel to all . The difference is in the meats drinks days .

Mostly the process of salvation was the same between the two groups but what they preached on how to practice Christianity was drastically different.
People refer to the Gospel in different ways.
As in the Gospel as the four texts of Yeshua's ministy.
As in the Gospel as the Good News of salvation.
As in the Gospel as the process of salvation.
As in how the Gospel of how to practice Christianity.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not quite . Peter was messing up WITH BOTH THE JEW AND GENTILE .
HE was actually walking contrary to the gospel . He was putting a divison between the jew and the gentile
and he was doing it OUT OF FEAR of the circumcision . YES peter knew better , but had been afraid .
Paul was simply addressing this . The jew and the gentile never should be seperated
The only jew and gentile we part company with IS and are those who fail to recieve Christ .
And if any beleiver , whether jew or gentile be in sin , THEN we also put them out , TILL they repent .

Yes quite.
Peter messed up a few times but Yeshua saw something in him....On this rock I will build my church.
But Peter absolutely did not put division between the Jews and Gentiles, that was already in motion by the Apostles. And not that they were doing wrong. They spent 3 years with Yeshua and came away thinking that they still had to obey the Mosaic Laws, at least in part, worship on Saturday in the Temple and sacrifice animals, and the letter of divorcement and polygamy.
Yeshua did not tell them that the Gentiles were going to be included in salvation and in fact said He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The Jewish-Christians were offended that Paul was converting Pagans. That is why the meeting in Jerusalem occurred and James issued a letter to correct this.

 

[Cyd]

@Grailhunter
I don't think Yeshua ment Peter when He said on this rock I will build my church... He was referring to what Peter said about Him.
Matthew 16:16-17 (KJV) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter
I don't think Yeshua ment Peter when He said on this rock I will build my church... He was referring to what Peter said about Him.
Matthew 16:16-17 (KJV) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

That is your right to believe.

 

[Cyd]

That is your right to believe.

Thank you for that haha I just think Peter is one interesting of the disciples, cause he denies Christ 3 times then on top of it Christ shows up in last book of John and Yeshus has to tell him 3 times to even feed His sheep. Don't you find that interesting of the disciples?

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes quite.
Peter messed up a few times but Yeshua saw something in him....On this rock I will build my church.
But Peter absolutely did not put division between the Jews and Gentiles, that was already in motion by the Apostles. And not that they were doing wrong. They spent 3 years with Yeshua and came away thinking that they still had to obey the Mosaic Laws, at least in part, worship on Saturday in the Temple and sacrifice animals, and the letter of divorcement and polygamy.
Yeshua did not tell them that the Gentiles were going to be included in salvation and in fact said He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The Jewish-Christians were offended that Paul was converting Pagans. That is why the meeting in Jerusalem occurred and James issued a letter to correct this.

verily verily my dear hunter of the grail , JESUS did not see something in this peter . JESUS did not even recieve testimony
of man . JESUS simply KNEW that peter would be used . WHEN GOD looks unto you , me
or any other , HE dont see us as the great thing , For GOD sees and knows what is in the heart of man .
And now a word .
The heart of man is wicked . And there is none who is righteous in the eyes of THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY .
And the only one who is and has always been Righteous had to take the form of man
TO save man from what no man can save himself from , DEATH .
WE aint the big kahuna and i will hear no such idea we are .
WHEN JESUS spoke to them all , to HIS Own and to even all who did reject him
IT was not cause he saw something special at all in them . Man is a wicked being .
capable of doing good things and evil things . MAN will never be the solution or the answer nor
is there hope in any man . BUT THERE IS HOPE IN GOD and IN HIS CHRIST
And unto all who do beleive IN CHRIST and thus would have BELIEVED HIS WORDS
THERE IS HOPE and SALVATION . But in int erfaith there is only death . and its peace be of anti christ .
THERE IS REASON i keep reminding us of this . And the sooner the light bulb clicks and the peoples see the danger
in hoping in men , in presidents , in the RCC of satan and ecumenical intefaith for peace . THE FAR BETTER OFF
they gonna be . And peter sure did put division between the jews and gentiles .
Even t ho ugh he himself did not walk according to the law but according to faith in JESUS .
HE then tried , OUT OF FEAR , yes fear can make folks do the WRONG THING
,then put a division between the jews and the gentiles .
SO allow me some parting words that to many will sound like hate , like antisemitism , like judgmental
AINT A JEW ONE OR GENTILE ONE gonna EVEN SEE the KINGDOM OF GOD
lest that there jew and that there gentile ENTERED IN by FAITH IN THIS VERY KING
WHO sits above now on the RIGHT hand of the FATHER , and who GOD and the LAMB are the very temple .
OH it is and it has been JESUS preaching TIME in the house . But reader and all beware
for if your jesus panders to the flesh of man , to how a man is born , whether jew or whether gentile
YOU FOLLOWING THE WRONG JESUS . THE FLESH profits nothing , YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN .
SO much for anti christ intefaith interreligious peace. ITS ABRAHAM ACCORDS
has LIED TO THEM ALL . And its peace cometh NOT OF GOD but of man and of many
anti christs who now do their fathers work . AND NOT RATHER THE FATHERS WORK .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is your right to believe.

I will not hear this on my watch . I will not even see it typed on my watch .
WE are NOT GOD
WE are NOT GOD
and thus are not entitled at all to BELEIVE as we please .
I will not hear this . MAN is NOT GOD .
GOD is GOD and unto HE we owe all , AND HE ALONE has the RIGHT TO DO as HE DO .
I will not hear this any longer .
The time to point to GOD and TO HIS CHRIST is TODAY .
And its time for a big ol fat double serving of some humble pie .
The rights of man does not supercede the TRUTH OF GOD . I WILL NOT hear this a second longer .
HERE is what we and who we OWE ALL TO . TO GOD and TO HIS CHRIST .
And if any speaks a word one contrary to what HE has said and taught , that one gonna be corrected .
HE has NOT RIGHT to speak contrary to THE ONE TRUE LIVING GOD and it wont be tolerated on my watch .
For i actually do love the peoples and desire only good for the peoples . AND NOTHING contrary to GOD
is any good for any one . BIBLE TIME . i say this to one and i say it to all .

 

[Grailhunter]

Thank you for that haha I just think Peter is one interesting of the disciples, cause he denies Christ 3 times then on top of it Christ shows up in last book of John and Yeshus has to tell him 3 times to even feed His sheep. Don't you find that interesting of the disciples?

There are few times Yeshua has to "explain things" to the Apostles.