Forgiving others

[WHO ME]

See this is why you have 2 groups, one says osas is true and the other says osas is false..

The one is talking about grace thru faith and you are saved.. the other is talking about the walk which comes after that... neither understands that they are both correct but are talking about 2 different things

 

[WHO ME]

I grew up believing osas... then I stoped going to church and studied on my own saw that osas wasnt true.

So Ive seen it from both sides, most believers only see it from one side.... thats the difference I think

Since most churches teach osas and when you first go you were like me...

I didnt know and they knew more than me so I just accepted it as true... I didnt study the bible for what it says I studied the bible for what they said it said and thats a mistake

 

[WHO ME]

If you read the prodigals son he is alive while with the Father, but goes out into the world and starts sinning and hes Not doing Gods will... when he repents the Father says

You were Dead but now you live again....
You were lost and now your found

See he was dead to the father while out not doing Gods will (works) until he repented

His faith was dead...... he was lost

He was out in the world wilfully doing sin, so since he was dead there was no more sacrifice for his sins....

 

[Lambano]

Pretty clear to me osas isnt true

There are verses on both sides. Which ones God applies to you depends on your circumstances.

When I need reassurance, I might go to this one:

(And those times when I need a good swift kick in the ass, there's other verses.)

 

[Lambano]

The above is why I gave up on trying to turn the Bible into a systematic theology textbook.

I passed understanding
A long, long time ago
In the simple home of systems
And answers we all know.
What I thought I wanted,
What I got instead,
Leaves me broken,
And somehow peaceful.
- Sara Groves

 

[WHO ME]

The above is why I gave up on trying to turn the Bible into a systematic theology textbook.

I passed understanding
A long, long time ago
In the simple home of systems
And answers we all know.
What I thought I wanted,
What I got instead,
Leaves me broken,
And somehow peaceful.
- Sara Groves

See this is why you have 2 groups, one says osas is true and the other says osas is false..

The one is talking about grace thru faith and you are saved.. the other is talking about the walk which comes after that... neither understands that they are both correct but are talking about 2 different things


So instead of trying to figure out whats true your gonna listen to sara groves? Ok that is fine...... yet here you are

 

[Lambano]

 

[Taken]

When I was first saved I believed in eternal security but later I saw verses like
Matt 6:14-15 and didnt believe that anymore

If you forgive men their trespassess against you your Heavenly Father will also forgive you....

If you dont forgive men their trespassess neither will your Father forgive your trespasses...

Only believers have a heavenly Father.

I use to hate my stepmother and wanted to buy about 15 feet of spark plug wire plug one end into the coil and other into the gas tank fill neck with a spark plug on it... but years later I read these verses and if I didnt forgive her as a believer I wasnt going to be forgiven by my Father.

Can someone who believes osas explain how this wont lose someone their salvation if they dont forgive others?

Using the above verses only....

And yes I forgave her and now even love her

Can someone who believes osas explain how this wont lose someone their salvation if they dont forgive others?

Salvation is A GIFT, Given and Received ONCE.

The FORGIVENESS, given BEFORE, receiving the Gift of Salvation…

Is FOR:
A human man having Become A (True) ie. Heartful Believing man.

Is BECAUSE:
A human is naturally born of a mans SEED, WITH NO Belief in God.

A man, Must Believe, (in his heart/ ie. “Natural spirit”, which IS the Truth in his heart)…while Alive in his OWN Life (ie. his living body and its Life/ Blood)

A man WHO so does Believe in his heart…
Has TWO OPTIONS…
1)-
He can Believe in his heart, but NEVER (by his WORD), call on the Lord and CONFESS his Belief.
OR
2)-
He can Call on the lords Name and Confess his True (natural spirit), Heartful Belief.

In Either case…
The Gift of Salvation…”IS ONLY Given AFTER…”
1a) Belief in ones Heart
and
2a) an Accounted BODILY DEATH of a Heartful Believing man.

* For centuries Men Could ONLY receive their salvation…AFTER a Mortal/ Physical Bodily Death of a Heartful Believer.

* Since Jesus Arrival, And HE laying down unto Death, His “Prepared” Body (our Example)…
* a Heartful believing man…
* Can, by his Word, “Confess-to the Lord”,his Heartful Belief…
AND…
* WILL, be ACCOUNTED… BODILY DEAD…
“Crucified WITH Jesus’ Body.

Jesus” Body, died, and Rose up with its “glorification”.

Such, A man, Crucified WITH Jesus’ Body…
Lives “IN” Jesus” Risen Body…
Until the day, His OWN Body is Risen up GLORIFIED.

This man is Called….”IN Christ”…
Because yet though his Flesh mortal natural body still lives… He IS Already Accounted Sanctified…ie. “Set Apart”
… he Body is “cleansed, justified, prepared to BE Manifested, RISEN … on the Day of his Redemption / Resurrection

They… IN Christ… are “Redeemed”…
By the Lord, Before Gods Great Tribulations sent down from heaven in the last days.

They… Before Christ Jesus’ revealing and Visible Example for mankind…
God Saved, they who heartfully believed and Mortally Died Believing in their heart.

Gods Saving, continued and shall continue throughout the Great Trib…
And it applies to faithful Believers, Who were not ACCOUNTED, crucified With Jesus…
Thus.. their BODY, MUST mortally Die, Before THEY receive their Salvation.

To your Question…
Salvation…is an Express Gift.
No one receives THAT Gift, then LOSES THAT Gift.

There ARE “Other, Blessings, Gifts, Rewards, Treasures….”
God OFFERS to men…FOR their WORKS.

DO particular WORKS…Receive particular such Gifts.
Don’t DO such particular WORKS…Forfeit Receiving such Gifts.

* Examples of upstanding “Works”…
Preaching, teaching, speaking Gods Word
Worshiping the Lord God
Glorifying God before men
Exalting God
Lending a hand to one in need, in The Lords name.
Praying for saints (those alive IN Christ)
Praying for understanding
Praying for enemies
Prayers of Thankfulness to God.
Remembering / Thanking Jesus’ advocacy works
Maintaining a daily Relationship WITH the Lord God
Respect, Trust God in all matters, even when you do not yet understand


* Examples of “rewards for works”…
Crowns.
Gems.
Positions of Authority
Positions for worthy Works (hierarchy)
Increased Spiritual Knowledge
Increased Spiritual Understanding
Quick Death.
An agonizing Death.

Every man, (believer, or not) … receives “Rewards” for his works.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Lambano]

So instead of trying to figure out whats true your gonna listen to sara groves? Ok that is fine...... yet here you are

The Truth you find isn't going to be the truth you thought you were looking for.

 

[quietthinker]

See this is why you have 2 groups, one says osas is true and the other says osas is false..

The one is talking about grace thru faith and you are saved.. the other is talking about the walk which comes after that... neither understands that they are both correct but are talking about 2 different things


So instead of trying to figure out whats true your gonna listen to sara groves? Ok that is fine...... yet here you are

We all think we know and work from that position. It's a veritable pain in the arse.

Paul says this in Philippians 3:8-10
'Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death',

The weightiness of this keeps my yada yada curtailed.

 

[NotTheRock]

I would say rather that if a person doesn't forgive others, that is an indication that they were not saved to start with. Forgiving others is part of the "good works" mentioned in Ephesians 2:

(Eph 2:8 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We don't do good works (including forgiving others) in order to become saved, but because we are saved.

David, I am sorry that I was, repeatedly, a jackass to you. Please forgive me.

 

[quietthinker]

David, I am sorry that I was, repeatedly, a jackass to you. Please forgive me.

Now that's the spirit!

 

[Armour of God]

Ahh, there's core of the problem. What does it mean to be "saved", what happens, and when does it happen?

I once saw an analysis of how sozo (the Greek verb "to save") is used in the New Testament, and sometimes it's a Perfect tense (past event, done deal), sometimes it's aorist (no time reference, typically used for the past tense), sometimes it's a present tense, and sometimes it's spoken in the future tense. It would be easy enough to look it up in Blue Letter Bible, if anyone was interested. Which one applies at any given time depends on the person's circumstances.

The net is, you're not going to find assurance that way, and I'm pretty God did it that way on purpose. And I can think of some good reasons having to do with human psychology as to WHY He would do it that way. We're just going to have to both trust Jesus all the way to the end to save us while obeying what He said about forgiving others and living a life commensurate with salvation. Trust and obey.

That's interesting about the Greek verb for save. Thanks for sharing that, things make a bit more sense to me now

 

[quietthinker]

That's interesting about the Greek verb for save. Thanks for sharing that, things make a bit more sense to me now

All the skittles fall, when? .... when the ball hits them in the right spot at the right angle.
What is the right spot and angle? when Jesus is known and understood as intended.

 

[David Lamb]

David, I am sorry that I was, repeatedly, a jackass to you. Please forgive me.

Thank you for the apology - quite unnecessary, I assure you. I can't remember you being a jackass to me, but thanks anyway.

 

[WHO ME]

I would say rather that if a person doesn't forgive others, that is an indication that they were not saved to start with. Forgiving others is part of the "good works" mentioned in Ephesians

David did you miss my reply?

If that same man does forgive hes forgiven.... unbelievers or the unsaved cant forgive and be forgiven be God, they would first have to be saved for that to work correct?

 

[Taken]

I grew up believing osas... then I stoped going to church and studied on my own saw that osas wasnt true.

How many times Has The Lord God Saved your soul? Quickened your spirit? Before Gods WORKS remained Effected?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WHO ME]

That's just one reason why I don't believe OSAS.
I don't even believe the salvation process is done until we actually die and meet God.

I think that your fate is sealed either at death or when Jesus comes to gather us together.. the 10 virgins fate was when Jesus showed up and they wernt ready, Ive heard osas'ers say the unwise virgins are unbelievers but thats not right, since Jesus is coming as the bridegroom to pick up His virgins bride only a believer would be considered a virgin.. they are just unwise when they believe Hes coming but does not show they fall away and stop doing Gods will....

 

[WHO ME]

How many times Has The Lord God Saved your soul? Quickened your spirit? Before Gods WORKS remained Effected?

Glory to God,
Taken

I've been waiting for you.... so I will ask you this.... you believe osas I know, so I only want you to deal with the verses I gave and dont go off anywhere else if you could....

When you first believe it is Gods grace thru Christ and when you believe on His(jesus) name and you are saved.... I believe as you do..

BUT I believe that it then moves onto your walk after that saving is where osas is false so I ask you to keep it simple....

If osas is true as you teach.. than why oh why does James also teach...

2:24 ye see then how that by WORKS A MAN is Justified and NOT by faith alone...

2:26 for as the BODY without the SPIRIT is DEAD, so FAITH (osas) without WORKS IS DEAD also

2:14 what does it profit my brother though a man say I have Faith and not WORKS

CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?

2:17 even so FAITH IF IT HAS NOT WORKS IS DEAD...

see works come AFTER you have believed on His name during your walk as a believer..

And if you dont have works your FAITH IS DEAD..... CAN FAITH (ALONE) SAVE HIM?

Remember in your answer that faith without works is like the body without the spirit
Which is what an unbeliever has

Its quite clear that your talking grace thru faith but James is talking about life after that which is your Walk.... the alive faith that saved you to begin with has now DIED because you have No Works ..

So again only use what verses above from James to show me how a dead faith with no works still makes you good to go with God..

 

[WHO ME]

Until people understand that saved by grace is by grace thru faith (no works at all) and you are saved...

But after that theres your walk or works as living the life of a believer and without works your once living faith that saved you at first has become dead.... works doesnt start until after you are saved.... Faith without Works is a Dead Faith...

2:20 But wilt thou KNOW, O VAIN MAN, that FAITH without WORKS IS DEAD