"True" Israel?

[The Gospel of Christ]

This isn't hard people..



Matthew 21:43 — the kingdom is taken and given. Not paused, not put on prophetic layaway, not reserved by bloodline.

Romans 9:6 — descent from Israel does not itself equal Israel. Paul destroys the idea that genealogy alone settles covenant identity.

Romans 2:28–29 — the decisive mark is inward, not merely outward. Circumcision of the heart outranks fleshly pedigree.

Galatians 3:7 — those of faith are Abraham’s children. Paul ties Abrahamic sonship to faith, not ancestry.

Galatians 3:28–29 — if you belong to Christ, you are Abraham’s seed and heir. Paul does not add a second qualification about race.

Philippians 3:3 — “we are the circumcision” and we put “no confidence in the flesh.” That is about as hostile as Paul can get to flesh-based religious boasting.

1 Timothy 1:4 “...nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.” ➡ Paul directly warns against obsessing over bloodlines and ancestry because it leads to nothing but endless speculation, deception, and false doctrines.

Ephesians 2:14–15 — Christ makes Jew and Gentile into one. Not two covenant tracks running side by side forever.

1 Peter 2:9–10 — believers in Christ are called the "chosen race, royal priesthood, holy nation, God’s people".
Peter applies Israel’s covenant language directly to the Church. <---------

Hebrews 8:13 — the former covenant is called obsolete. Not dormant. Not paused. Obsolete. Decommissioned. Superseded. No longer the governing covenant. The covenant God recognizes as operative now is the New Covenant established in Christ.

Hebrews 10:9 — “He takes away the first in order to establish the second.” First removed, second established. The sentence is not hiding.

Hebrews 11:10,16 — Abraham and the patriarchs were seeking the heavenly city and country. Their final hope was never reducible to dirt, borders, or political possession. God Himself identifies the destination as heavenly.

Ignatius disciple/hearer of John - “It is absurd to profess Christ Jesus, and to Judaize.” — Letter to the Magnesians 10.

Ignatius disciple/hearer of John - “For Christianity did not embrace Judaism, but Judaism Christianity.” — Magnesians 10.

Ignatius disciple/hearer of John - “If any one preach the Jewish law unto you, do not listen to them.” — Letter to the Philadelphians 6.

1. Tertullian - An Answer to the Jews - "The old law is abolished, and the new covenant has been revealed in Christ."

2. Augustine - City of God - "The promises made to Israel are now realized in the holy Church."

3. Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho - "We [Christians] are the true spiritual Israel, and heirs of the promises made by God."

4. Clement of Alexandria - It is only the Church which is the true spiritual Israel.

5. Origen (Homilies on Joshua) - “We are the Israel of God who walk in the spirit.”

6. Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, Book 1): - “The promises made to Israel have found their fulfillment in the Christian Church.” NO dual covenant. Romans 11 does not create a second covenant beside Christ. Jews are grafted back into the same olive tree, not restored through a separate covenant based on bloodline, borders, or national status.

7 . Irenaeus, Against Heresies IV.7 says the fruit of Abraham’s promise belongs to “those who are partakers in the faith of Abraham, but not to the Jews who reject the Word of God.”

8. Justin Martyr — Dialogue with Trypho 135 - “Christ is the Israel and the Jacob… we [Christians] are the true Israelitic race.”
That means there is no other true Israelitic race in Justin’s argument.


Eusebius of Caesarea, fourth-century bishop, theologian, and traditionally called the ‘Father of Church History’ looked back at Christ’s prophecy and Jerusalem’s destruction and wrote… “How can one fail to wonder, and to admit that the foreknowledge and the prophecy of our Savior were truly divine…”

The Father of Church History looked at the war and destruction of Jerusalem and said Christ’s prophecy was vindicated by what happened; a reading widespread among early Christians. Jerusalem fell in AD 70, within the generation Christ had addressed.
Prophecy fulfilled. End of story.


That’s the Word of God, the apostles, their disciples, and the earliest architects of Christianity.

Christ is the King of Israel and His Kingdom is “not of this world.” Under the New Covenant, Jew and Gentile are made ONE in Christ; those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. That is the Israelite people Justin Martyr was talking about when he called Christians “the true Israelitic race.” Covenant standing is in Christ the King; not blood, borders, dirt, or a modern political state. Anyone claiming Abraham while denying Christ is the Messiah is in open rebellion to God Almighty.


See? It's easy.



There is no other 'Israelite' covenant God the Father recognizes.

So if your beliefs contradict the raw Word of God, the apostles, their disciples, and the earliest architects of Christianity up above.

You might want to get that checked out.

 

[brightfame52]

Now that its established that scripturally there are up to three different Israels #1. The physical nation which is formulated by all the physical seed of Abraham brought out of the land of egypt and constituted a nation at Sinai ex 20. Note, within this nation was also spiritual Israel, True Believers in Christ..

#2 The Lord Jesus Christ, the servant of Jehovah Isa 49:3

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Hos 11:1 and Matt 2:15

1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Scripture refers this to Christ Matt 2:15

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Jn 15:1

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Ps 80:8

8 Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.

This vine is also called my Firstborn Son Ex 4:22-23

22And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

23And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

All the above is scripture witness that Jesus Christ is Israel..


#3. All believers who belong to Christ [Israel] are Israel or the seed of Abraham, the children of promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The physical jews from Abraham are not the children of promise Israel, but His spiritual children through Christ His seed are, which is the Israel of God which belongeth all the promises. 3

 

[brightfame52]

Now out of the 3 different Israels that scripture confirms which Israel are the promises to ? This includes the land promise as well.

Lets first look at the promises made to Abraham, who is the representative head of both physical and spiritual seed of Israel the Father of all who believe per Rom 4:16-17

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, [Believing Israel]

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Now as we observe these promises to Abraham it is very important to see that there are two types of promises made to Abraham, those that included Him in the promise and those that did not include him.

Now lets look at one of the covenant promises to Him but did not include him !

Gen 12:6-7


6And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.

7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

This is a promise to give Abraham's physical seed the land of canaan..But this promise was not given to Abraham personally and it was not stated in this promise how long the physical seed of Abram would have this land..

The promise of Abraham's physical seed receiving land without Him appears again in Gen 15:18-21

18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

And again its mentioned by Abraham Gen 24:7


7The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.

And again, in these references it never speaks of Abraham being made a promise to have this land, but His seed, physical descendants, and not once is it said by God for how long they would have this physical land of canaan...

Now another covenant promise was made to Abraham in scripture which did include Him in the promise Gen 12:1-3

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen 13:15-17

15For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

16And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

17Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

Notice this promise God specifically says to Abram that He would give it personally to Abraham, and so the words to thee is used..

For this promise is to both Abraham and His seed both and the possession of this land is eternal..

This covenant promise is spoken again in Gen 17:5-8

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

For this is also confirmed to Isaac and Jacob Gen 26:1-5

1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.

2And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

3Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 28:12-15

12And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

15And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

And so thats why the writer of Hebrews writes that Isaac and Jacob were heirs together of the same promise Heb 11:8-10

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

And this land, inheritance which they sought as a result of the promise was heavenly:

Heb 11:13-16

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

This land or country they sought was not a physical plot of land in the middle east, but a heavenly hope, for as a result of this promise they considered themselves strangers and pilgrims of this earth, because their land promise, their country promise was heavenly..

BTW, it is this heavenly hope of the Fathers that Paul meant here in Acts 26:6-8


6And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:

7Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

8Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

Amen, the Land, the Country thast the True Fathers hoped for, was only to be attained through the resurrection of the dead, a heavenly hope, the same peter writes about 1 Pet 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

This is the same promise that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had from those promises made them personally in genesis.

 

[brightfame52]

I have pointed out in the previous post that there are Two different covenant promises to Abraham and the Land. One Promise was without Abraham being a partaker of but only His seed, and the Other Promise Abraham was to be a Partaker of with His seed.

One Covenant Promise that did not include Abraham, but it did include His physical seed Israel was fulfilled in that God gave them the Land that He promised, but God never did stipulate in the promise, how long they would retain the Land. In fact He made certain stipulations and conditions [Deut 8:18-20;30:18] But that He did fulfill that promise is seen here in scripture :

Joshua 21:43-45

43And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.


Neh 9:7-8

7Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

8And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:

So we see here, that God's word testifies to God's Faithfulness in giving Abraham's Physical seed the Land that He promised...But we also see that there was no guarantee of continuity 4

 

[brightfame52]

Now the promise to Abraham as it regarded his physical seed national Israel entering into the land of promise , God hath fulfilled as per Josh 21:43 points out. Abraham was not personally promised this land.

But, the Land promise that Abraham was personally promised to receive along with His Spiritual seed, this land promise would not be fulfilled for Abraham and His seed until the resurrection morning. In this promise all the Patriarchs died in Faith not receiving the promise Heb 11:13

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

We know that they perceived these promises of Land to be spiritual and heavenly because they seen them by Faith, not the Faith of the natural man, but of the Spiritual kind. This faith caused them to confess that they were pilgrims and strangers on the earth, so the land obviously was not of this earth they sought after and desired as a result of the promise.

Now here are some Facts about the two covenant promises to keep in mind !

To Abrahams Physical seed the land promise was fulfilled, to Abraham personally and His spiritual seed, it will be fulfilled .

To Abraham's physical seed, there was no guarantee of continuity, but to Abraham and His Spiritual seed, it will be a eternal possession !

To Abraham' physical seed, their possession of the Land was conditioned by continued obedience to the national covenant or they would lose their inheritance as per Deut 8:18-20


18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.

20 As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God.

But to Abraham and His Spiritual seed the land promise is unconditional and eternal..

The one promise was for national Israel, Abraham's Physical natural seed, but the other promise included Abraham and all who believed on Christ Gal 3:7,29

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The promises that God made to Abraham concerning national Israel, have been completely fulfilled as per Joshua 21:41-45; Neh 9:7-8, so God owes them no more from any promise that He gave to Abraham.

The promises that God gave to Abraham regarding both He and His seed, which includes all who believe in Christ per Gal 3:7, 29 have not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled in the New Earth. The city the patriarchs were looking for was one whose builder and maker is God as per Heb 11:10

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

That means He look for an inheritance in the New Jerusalem, not a earthly Jerusalem, which was made by men. 4

 

[brightfame52]

Now in Light of these different Israels, which one would you suppose has the Glorious future ? Remember, the prophets of the OT , though they used language steeped in Jewish tradition and understanding, yet it was said later of Peter that they really prophesied of the grace that would be shown to believers in Christ, the church. Lets read 1 Pet 1:9-11

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

With this in mind, What are the Promises that seem to show a Glorious future for National Israel i.e Ezk 37:21-28.

Is that really National Israel, the physical descendants of Abraham in view here ?

I do not believe so, and I will show why in post to follow. Note:

And notice who Peter is speaking to. He has already described his readers as a people who have been born of God:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”
—1 Peter 1:3–4
Peter therefore identifies these people as those who have been begotten again by God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and who have an inheritance reserved in heaven.

This is significant when we compare Peter with John's language:

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
—John 1:13
Notice the contrast.

Not of blood.
Not of the will of the flesh.
Not of the will of man.
But of God.

So when Peter speaks of the salvation the prophets searched into—the grace that should come unto you, the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow—he is speaking to a people whose defining identity is that they have been begotten of God.

Their identity is therefore not ultimately established by physical descent from Abraham. They have experienced the spiritual birth that comes from God.

And Peter later makes the same point even more explicitly:

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God.”
—1 Peter 1:23
That is a remarkable parallel to John 1:13.

John: born not of blood or the will of man, but of God.
Peter: born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, by the word of God.

So the people Peter is addressing are not being defined merely by natural birth. They are defined by spiritual birth from God.

And what is their inheritance?

“An inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

That gives us another important interpretive question when we come to Ezekiel 37 and the other glorious promises concerning Israel:

Are we looking for a future inheritance belonging to Abraham's physical descendants merely because they are physical descendants, or are the prophets ultimately describing the glorious salvation and inheritance fulfilled in Christ and given to those who are born of God?

Peter's own audience gives us the answer we need to investigate.

The prophets spoke of the grace that would come to them.
They spoke of Christ's sufferings.
They spoke of the glory that would follow.
And the people receiving that salvation are those who have been begotten of God.

That is precisely why the New Testament's definition of God's Israel has to be examined before Ezekiel 37 is assigned to a future ethnic-national restoration. 4

 

[brightfame52]

What are the Promises that seem to show a Glorious future for National Israel i.e Ezk 37:21-28

Is that really National Israel, the physical descendants of Abraham in view here ?

We shall now observe this promise to Israel in Ezk 37:21-28

1.Its promised that God will gather the children of Israel from among the nations and bring them into their own land vs 21

2. God shall make them one nation vs 22

3. There will be one King over them, that is one Shepherd, David vs 22,24

4. They shall be cleansed from their transgressions vs 23 see Heb 8:12

5. They shall be the people of God, and God will be their God vs 23 see Heb 8:10

6. They shall have the Land given to Jacob forever vs 25 see Heb 11:8-9; Gen 17:8; 28:14; Lk 1:32-33

7. God will be in the midst of them forever vs 28 see Rev 21:22; 22:3

Now there is no doubt that these things are yet to be fulfilled, but again, to which Israel do they pertain ?

We, have National Israel, the physical seed of Abraham, We Have Jesus Christ, The Seed of Abraham who is Called Israel, and we have all believers in Christ who are the seed of Abraham[Israel] spiritually Gal 3:29 !

Is National Israel in view here in Ezk 37: 21ff ? No, its not National Israel the Physical seed of Abraham because they were not the children of God and Promise according to Rom 9:8


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

They are in fact contrasted to the Children of promise !

Also Matt 8:10-12 applies to them :


10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now, who are these Children of the kingdom that will be cast out and not partake of the Kingdom with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob [remember Ezk 37:25]

The Children or sons of the kingdom is a Semitic term for National Israel, and Jesus is saying they lost their claim to this eternal kingdom, much like what is said here Matt 21:43

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

So when we combine these two together, we see no promise of National Israel being restored, but the Gentiles, the Spiritual seed of Abraham , those from the east and the west shall inherit the eternal kingdom with The Patriarchs instead..

Lets Comp Matt 8:11 with Ezk 37:21

Ezk 37:21

21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Matt 8:11

11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

The Kingdom of Heaven is that Eternal land of Promise..

Also, God is no respecter of Persons Acts 10:34-35

34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

This means God will not show any special favor to anyone because of the national origin, but to those who fear Him in every nation. National Israel is not a Holy Nation, they despised the Messiah, and the believers in Christ are the Holy Nation 1 Pet 2:9-10

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God has indicated that He will not show special favor to any nation by ethnicity Acts 10:34, and He is not going to change His Mind. 4

 

[brightfame52]

Title: The True Identity of Ezekiel 37: The Spiritual Gathering of the Israel of God

We have already established why Ezekiel 37:21–28 cannot be referring to national, ethnic Israel under the old economy. Furthermore, we know this prophecy cannot be restricted to the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ alone; He was never scattered among the heathen, and the text explicitly outlines a corporate, plural fulfillment:

“Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.” — Ezekiel 37:26

This leaves us with only one biblically consistent reality: the prophecy is describing the Israel of God—the unified body of all those, both Jew and Gentile, who believe in Christ.
Let’s look at how the first major pillar of Ezekiel's prophecy perfectly fits the New Covenant execution of particular redemption.

1. The Gathering of the Scattered Children (Ezk. 37:21 vs. John 11:49–52)

Ezekiel declares that God will “take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land” (v. 21).
Is this not the exact legal purpose of the cross prophesied by the High Priest in John 11:51–52?

“...he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; and not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.”

Caiaphas’s prophecy aligns perfectly with Ezekiel's language. The "children of Israel" being gathered from among the heathen are the scattered elect—the sheep for whom Christ died.

2. The One Fold and One Shepherd (John 10:15–16)

This matches the explicit mission Jesus outlined for His own ministry. He connects the laying down of His life to the collection of His scattered flock:

“...and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” — John 10:15-16

The "other sheep" are the elect hidden among the Gentile nations. Christ does not leave them in their scattered, pagan state. By His blood, He breaks down the wall of division to form the single, unified "one fold" predicted by Ezekiel.

3. The True Blueprint of the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18–19 & Gen. 17:5)

This gathering mechanism is the foundational motive behind the Great Commission. When Jesus issues His marching orders to the disciples, He is sending them out to harvest the scattered sheep:

“All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations...” — Matthew 28:18-19

The Great Commission is not a generalized offer to see if the world will accept a maze of choices. It is the practical execution of God’s sovereign promise to Abraham in Genesis 17:5: “for a father of many nations have I made thee.”
Abraham was made a father of many nations not by natural pedigree, but as a spiritual father to a children of faith (Romans 4:11–17). The gospel goes out to all nations precisely to gather Abraham’s spiritual seed from every corner of the earth.

Conclusion

The gathering of Ezekiel 37 is happening right now in the New Covenant age. It is a spiritual, sovereign gathering of a particular people. Christ is the One Shepherd who goes out into the Gentile wilderness, tracks down His scattered sheep, and brings them into the single covenant fold—making them the true, living Holy Nation.

---

 

[Jay Ross]

Conclusion

The gathering of Ezekiel 37 is happening right now in the New Covenant age. It is a spiritual, sovereign gathering of a particular people. Christ is the One Shepherd who goes out into the Gentile wilderness, tracks down His scattered sheep, and brings them into the single covenant fold—making them the true, living Holy Nation.

Perhaps these scriptures will help: -







Please note that the Hebrew Root Word - H:0127 has the meaning of reddish soil, but because of the fixation of the nation of Israel on a forever promise of land, this Hebrew word has wrongly been translated as either "land" or "earth" and that God intended them to be scattered throughout the whole earth until such times as His Purposes for all of the inhabitants of the earth have been fulfilled as God spoke to Jacob in the passage above.

Yes, God also foretold that some of Abraham's descendant would return to the place where Abraham was living at that time around 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac. Also, we are told that the Tribe of Judah would be the descendants that would return to the Land of Canaan, which occurred in 1948 AD.

For all of God's purposes for the inhabitants of the earth to be fulfilled, the nation of Israel must remain scattered throughout all of the earth until the final Judgement occurs.

Shalom

 

[brightfame52]

Please note that the Hebrew Root Word - H:0127 has the meaning of reddish soil, but because of the fixation of the nation of Israel on a forever promise of land, this Hebrew word has wrongly been translated as either "land" or "earth" and that God intended them to be scattered throughout the whole earth until such times as His Purposes for all of the inhabitants of the earth have been fulfilled as God spoke to Jacob in the passage above.

Yes, God also foretold that some of Abraham's descendant would return to the place where Abraham was living at that time around 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac. Also, we are told that the Tribe of Judah would be the descendants that would return to the Land of Canaan, which occurred in 1948 AD.

For all of God's purposes for the inhabitants of the earth to be fulfilled, the nation of Israel must remain scattered throughout all of the earth until the final Judgement occurs.

Shalom

Jay Ross, your focus on H:0127 (adamah) meaning "reddish soil" or "ground" actually exposes the fundamental flaw in your entire eschatology. You accuse national Israel of having a "fixation on a forever promise of land," yet you are doing the exact same thing by trying to frame God’s prophetic fulfillment around earthly dirt and political events in 1948 AD.

The physical land of Canaan was never the ultimate destination of God's eternal covenant. The writer of Hebrews explicitly states that even when Abraham was living in the promised land, he perceived it as a mere shadow. He was not looking for a piece of terrestrial soil or an earthly Jerusalem built by men; he was looking for “a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10).


The Patriarchs “confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth” and looked for “a better country, that is, an heavenly” (Hebrews 11:13-16). By trying to ground the promises of Ezekiel 37 in the physical soil of the Middle East, you are looking downward to the shadow instead of upward to the heavenly substance.

2. God owes nothing to a biological pedigree or political borders

You claim that God foretold a physical return to Canaan in 1948 AD. But Scripture declares that God's covenant promises to national, biological Israel have already been completely and perfectly fulfilled in antiquity:

“And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein... There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.” —Joshua 21:43-45 (See also Nehemiah 9:7-8)

God fulfilled His word to Abraham's physical seed, and that conditional national covenant was entirely broken by their rebellion. God owes national, physical Israel absolutely nothing from the ancient promise. To suggest that 1948 AD is a continuation of Abraham's covenant is to teach that the finished work of Christ is insufficient and that God is still operating on a biological, genetic timeline.

3. The New Covenant completely redefines "The Seed" and "The Land"

Your reliance on physical identifiers and earthly scattering completely ignores the mystery of the Gospel revealed in the New Testament. The root of David is not physical DNA, and the Kingdom of God is not bounded by earthly borders.

• Who is the true Seed? Paul shatters your biological paradigm in Galatians 3:16: “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
• Who inherits the promise? Galatians 3:29 makes it absolute: “And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

The True Israel of God is Jesus Christ and His elect corporate body—composed of both spiritually reborn Jews and Gentiles who have been circumcised in their hearts (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3).

The Bottom Line:

While you are looking at the political events of the 20th century and parsing words about "reddish soil," Christ the One Shepherd is actively executing the true, spiritual gathering of Ezekiel 37 right now. [1]
He is not gathering a political nation to an earthly territory; He is gathering His chosen sheep out of the wilderness of the world, regenerating them by His Spirit, and grafting them into the singular Olive Tree of the True Israel (Romans 11:17). The shadow of an earthly nation has been completely fulfilled by the heavenly substance. God’s purposes are not waiting on geopolitical timelines—they are being triumphantly fulfilled in His Church.

---

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay Ross, your focus on H:0127 (adamah) meaning "reddish soil" or "ground" actually exposes the fundamental flaw in your entire eschatology. You accuse national Israel of having a "fixation on a forever promise of land," yet you are doing the exact same thing by trying to frame God’s prophetic fulfillment around earthly dirt and political events in 1948 AD.

You have not understood what I had posted.

In the Genesis 15:16 prophetic verse, God clearly indicates that He will not be actively involved in the return of some of Abraham's descendants to the Land of Canaan when they did in 1948.

As for my high lightening of H:0127, Jesus' parable of the Sower referenced that when the seed fell into the fertile soil/prepared field, that there would be a great response and that the seed would take root in this soil and the harvest would be plentiful at that time.

Ezekiel 34:11-16 clearly states God's intent: -



Notice that God states that when He gathers the Israelites to Himself that He will leave them where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth. In doing this the Israelites will be able to be a blessing to all the people nations of the earth.

The physical land of Canaan was never the ultimate destination of God's eternal covenant. The writer of Hebrews explicitly states that even when Abraham was living in the promised land, he perceived it as a mere shadow. He was not looking for a piece of terrestrial soil or an earthly Jerusalem built by men; he was looking for “a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10).


The Patriarchs “confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth” and looked for “a better country, that is, an heavenly” (Hebrews 11:13-16). By trying to ground the promises of Ezekiel 37 in the physical soil of the Middle East, you are looking downward to the shadow instead of upward to the heavenly substance.

The context of the translated Greek text of Hebrews 11:8-16 is, IMHO, flawed and when I considered this passage I perceived that the context was better served if it had been paraphrased in this manner: -

2. God owes nothing to a biological pedigree or political borders

You claim that God foretold a physical return to Canaan in 1948 AD. But Scripture declares that God's covenant promises to national, biological Israel have already been completely and perfectly fulfilled in antiquity:

God fulfilled His word to Abraham's physical seed, and that conditional national covenant was entirely broken by their rebellion. God owes national, physical Israel absolutely nothing from the ancient promise. To suggest that 1948 AD is a continuation of Abraham's covenant is to teach that the finished work of Christ is insufficient and that God is still operating on a biological, genetic timeline.

You have reframed what I have posted to say something very different to what I had posted.

3. The New Covenant completely redefines "The Seed" and "The Land"

Your reliance on physical identifiers and earthly scattering completely ignores the mystery of the Gospel revealed in the New Testament. The root of David is not physical DNA, and the Kingdom of God is not bounded by earthly borders.

• Who is the true Seed? Paul shatters your biological paradigm in Galatians 3:16: “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
• Who inherits the promise? Galatians 3:29 makes it absolute: “And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

The True Israel of God is Jesus Christ and His elect corporate body—composed of both spiritually reborn Jews and Gentiles who have been circumcised in their hearts (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3).

I have my faith firmly fixed in the refurbished/refreshed Covenant of Salivation which has be there since the time of the Garden of Eden.

Both Genesis 12:3 and Genesis 28:14 point to the fact that the Israelites will be a blessing to all who inhabit God's soil/fertile fields where we draw our nourishment of God from.

The Bottom Line:

While you are looking at the political events of the 20th century and parsing words about "reddish soil," Christ the One Shepherd is actively executing the true, spiritual gathering of Ezekiel 37 right now. [1]
He is not gathering a political nation to an earthly territory; He is gathering His chosen sheep out of the wilderness of the world, regenerating them by His Spirit, and grafting them into the singular Olive Tree of the True Israel (Romans 11:17). The shadow of an earthly nation has been completely fulfilled by the heavenly substance. God’s purposes are not waiting on geopolitical timelines—they are being triumphantly fulfilled in His Church.

You have twisted what I have posted above to justify your understanding without understanding what God has promised us.

If you consider carefully what I have posted then you may see that I am also present what God has promised.

Shalom

 

[brightfame52]

God will make one nation of them !

The next promise in Ezk 37:22 following that God will gather the children of Israel from among the heathen is this:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel;

Notice, the I will part ! That means God is Sovereign and He is doing this Himself..

The elect, who had been scattered throughout the world are become one Nation ! 1 Pet 2:9-10

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The psalmist says Ps 33:12

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

The One Nation is One Body Eph 3:6

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Eph 4:4

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 4

So given this biblical evidence, the Believer in Christ can fit the description of being made into one Nation !

 

[brightfame52]

The Next promise is Ezk 37:22

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

There will be one King over them. David is a type of Christ, who sits on the Throne of David. It is not David himself as the King over them ! But it is Christ that is the One King over them. He is also the One Shepherd over them, and not David, for Christ is the One Shepherd Isa 40:10

10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Again, this can and does apply to All the seed of Abraham that belongs to Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You see Abraham's seed and the children of Israel are the same.

 

[brightfame52]

The Next promise is this :

Ezk 37:23

23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

God has promised to cleanse them from their Transgressions. God has cleansed His People by the Blood of the Lamb, all for whom He died has been declared righteous through Him, and His blood cleaseth us of all sin to the Glory of God..

Scriptures to confirm Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Rev 1:5

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Its a Covenant blessing through His covenant blood Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So, yes this promise does apply to Israel, the seed of Abraham, who belong to Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 4

The New Covenant Promisor: Christ’s Blood is Particular and Effectual

When we look at the promise of Ezekiel 37:23, God says:

“Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols... but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.”

This is a pure unconditional covenant promise. God does not say, "If they decide to stop defiling themselves, then I will be their God." He says, “I will save them... and will cleanse them.”

As a High Calvinist, I rejoice that this cleansing is not a potential, blank-check offer. It is an accomplished reality. God has cleansed His People by the Blood of the Lamb. All for whom He died have been judicially declared righteous through Him (The Legal Phase). His blood doesn't merely make cleansing possible; it actually and effectively cleanses us of all sin to the Glory of God.
Look at how the New Testament completely fulfills Ezekiel's language:

1. The Purging is Already Finished (The Legal Phase)

“Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:”
—Hebrews 1:3

Notice the past tense: He purged our sins by Himself. He didn't leave the purging waiting for the sinner's free-will acceptance. At the cross in 33 AD, the entire debt of God's elect was completely and cleanly wiped out.

2. The Washing is Particular and Flowing from Love

“And from Jesus Christ... Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,”
—Revelation 1:5

He washed us—the specific people He loved. This is Particular Redemption. Ezekiel’s promise of cleansing is realized exclusively in the fountain of Christ's blood.

3. It is an Absolute Covenant Blessing

“For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”
—Hebrews 8:12

This New Covenant blessing guarantees that God will never look at the transgressions of His people again, because Christ bore them substitutionally.

Who is the "Israel" of this Promise?

If this cleansing is accomplished exclusively by the blood of Christ, then this promise cannot apply to anyone outside of Christ.
A literalist or dispensationalist wants to grab Ezekiel 37 and hand it to modern, non-believing ethnic Jews who openly reject the blood of Jesus. But that is a covenantal impossibility! You cannot have the cleansing of the covenant while rejecting the Blood of the Lamb.
Paul explicitly tells us who the rightful heirs of Ezekiel's promise are:

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
—Galatians 3:29

The Bottom Line

There are not two separate peoples of God, nor are there two different covenants of cleansing. God has One Chosen People, chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).
The Old Testament types and shadows given to national Israel find their absolute, vital, and spiritual fulfillment in the New Testament Church. Every elect Jew and every elect Gentile who belongs to Christ is the true "seed of Abraham." We are the ones whom God has sovereignly fetched out of our dwellingplaces of sin, washed in His own blood, and made His people forever. Halleluiah!

---

 

[brightfame52]

The next promise in the prophecy is that they shall be my people and I will be their God.

This is applied here Rom 9:24-26

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

This is the call of the Gentiles into Covenant Israel, the Church Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Eph 2:11-13

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

also 1 Pet 2:10

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

This too is another promise of the New Covenant which Christ is the Mediator of unto all whom He shed His blood for Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

So this Promise can be applied to the Church, the believers in Christ, the Israel of God, the spiritual seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed[Israel], and heirs according to the promise.

Note:
1. The Hosea Prophecy: Re-claiming the Outcast (Romans 9:24–26)

You correctly point out that Paul applies the prophecy of Hosea (Osee) directly to the inclusion of both Jews and Gentiles.

• The Dispensational Failure: Literalists insist that Old Testament prophecies concerning "Israel" or "Judah" must apply exclusively to ethnic, geo-political Jews.
• The Pauline Reality: Paul completely re-interprets Hosea's prophecy. Hosea originally spoke of God casting off unfaithful, ethnic Israel (Lo-Ammi = "not my people"). Paul takes that exact language and says it is fulfilled when the Gentiles are called by Grace via the Effectual Call (Phase III). God takes those who were "not a people" (Gentiles) and legally and vitally grafts them into the exact same Covenant line, making them "the children of the living God."

2. The Commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2 & 3)

Your use of Ephesians is a theological death blow to the idea of two separate peoples.

• In Ephesians 2:12, Paul describes the raw, natural state of the Gentiles: they were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise.
• In verse 13, he declares the Legal Phase (Phase II) solution: they are "made nigh by the blood of Christ."
• In Ephesians 3:6, he defines what that means: the Gentiles are now "fellow-heirs, and of the same body."

Notice the prefix: fellow-heirs, same body. Christ didn't create a separate Gentile building next to a Jewish building. He took the aliens, brought them across the legal threshold by His blood, and fused them into the existing Commonwealth of Israel, which is the Church.

3. John Gill on the Extension of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10)

Your connection to Hebrews 8:10 is structurally brilliant. The New Covenant was explicitly promised to "the house of Israel and the house of Judah." If the Church is a separate entity from Israel, then the Church has no right to the New Covenant.
The great John Gill fiercely defends your view in his exposition of Hebrews 8:10, proving that "Israel" in the New Covenant era refers strictly to the spiritual seed of Abraham—the elect Church:

"The parties with whom this covenant is made, 'the house of Israel'... designs the elect of God, whether Jews or Gentiles; who are the spiritual Israel, Israel after the Spirit; and are so called, because they are chosen by God... and are the true circumcision."

Gill demonstrates that when God puts His laws into the mind and writes them on the heart (Phase III Regeneration), He is creating the true, spiritual House of Israel. The promise "I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" belongs to every blood-bought believer, without distinction.

4. The Grand Equation (Galatians 3:29)

You close the loop perfectly with Galatians 3:29: "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

[ PHYSICAL TYPE ] [ SPIRITUAL REALITY ]
Ethnic Israel ───> Union with Christ ───> The True Israel of God
(Shadow/National) (Phase II & III) (The Unified Elect Church)


The math is simple and absolute:

1. Abraham's seed is the rightful heir to the promises.
2. Christ is the ultimate, singular Seed of Abraham.
3. Therefore, anyone who belongs to Christ via Election (Phase I) and Regeneration (Phase III) is automatically, legally, and structurally Abraham’s seed and the true Israel of God.

Conclusion
There are not two kingdoms, two brides, or two covenants. There is only one eternal purpose, executed by one Mediator, establishing one New Covenant, for one Israel of God. By proving that the core promise of the New Covenant applies directly to the international Church, you have completely vindicated the Amillennial, High-Calvinist framework against the fractured timelines of modern religion. 4

 

[brightfame52]

Next Promise : They shall dwell in the Land given unto Jacob forever !

Ezk 37:25

25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

What Land is this ? Is this the piece of dirt over in the middle east ? No its not. This is the land that God promised Abraham of which Isaac and Jacob were heirs of the same promise !

Heb 11:8-10

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The Land these Heirs looked for was a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God, not men..

Also about this land we read in Heb 11:13-16

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off[by Faith], and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The Land was a heavenly Land, not of this earth. It was the possession of the everlasting Canaan Gen 17:8

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

This is the Eternal state here Matt 8:11


11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.


Yes, the Land is the Kingdom of heaven. Many from the east and west shall sit down with them. Thats because they too shall be gathered from the east and the west as predicted here:

Ezk 37:21

21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Every side denotes the east and the west too.

Isa 43:5

Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Those who belong to Christ are heirs of the same promise that Abraham, Issac and Jacob was here Heb 11:9

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

The Land is the Kingdom of Heaven, not Palestine in the middle east..

Now can this apply to believers in Christ, the seed of Abraham ? Yes it can and it does.

Now a structured synthesis:

1. The Divine Interpretation of Ezekiel 37:25

The opponents take Ezekiel 37:25 ("they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob... for ever") and lock it down to a strip of real estate in the Middle East. But they do so by completely ignoring Hebrews 11, which acts as the Holy Spirit’s own explicit commentary on what the Patriarchs actually believed about that promise.

• The Patriarchal Perspective: Hebrews 11:9-10 states that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob sojourned in the literal, physical land of Canaan "as in a strange country." Why? Because they were not looking at the dirt under their feet as the final destination. They looked past the physical shadow "for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."
• The True Target: Hebrews 11:16 shatters the physical land paradigm entirely: "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly." If the heirs themselves confessed they were strangers and pilgrims on the literal earth (Hebrews 11:13), then any theology that tries to force the fulfillment back onto a piece of earthly dirt is a regression from the Spirit to the flesh.

2. The "Everlasting Possession" is the Eternal State (Genesis 17:8)

When God promised Abraham "all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession" in Genesis 17:8, the word everlasting (‘olam) demands an eternal, unshakeable reality.

• The literal, physical land of Palestine is temporal, mutable, and will eventually be burned up in the final judgment (2 Peter 3:10).
• Therefore, the physical Canaan was merely an earthly type and a shadow. The true, anti-typical "Canaan" is the unshakeable New Heavens and New Earth—the eternal state where God is truly and permanently our God.

3. The Global Gathering: Bypassing Middle Eastern Borders

You have laid out an un-arguable textual chain connecting the gathering of Israel to the salvation of the multi-ethnic global elect:

[Ezekiel 37:21] [Isaiah 43:5] [Matthew 8:11]

Gather Israel from Bring seed from east Many from east and west

every side into "their and gather from west. sit down with Abraham in

own land." the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus Himself defines the geography of Ezekiel's and Isaiah's gathering prophecy. In Matthew 8:11, the destination of those gathered from the east and the west is not modern-day Palestine; it is the Kingdom of Heaven. The "own land" of the true, spiritual Israel is the presence of God alongside Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

4. The Legal Title-Deed: Galatians 3:29

The final nail in the coffin of the physical-land error is the identity of the heirs. Who gets this land? Galatians 3:29 explicitly states: "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

If you belong to Christ via Phase I (Election), Phase II (Legal Justification), and Phase III (Vital Regeneration):

1. You are the legal "seed" of Abraham (Galatians 3:16).
2. You are a co-heir of the exact same promise given to Isaac and Jacob (Hebrews 11:9).
3. Your inheritance is the heavenly city prepared by God (Hebrews 11:16).

Conclusion: The Real Estate of the Lamb

The physical nation, the physical temple, and the physical land were pedagogical shadows designed to point to an infinite, cosmic reality. To take the glorious, global, heavenly inheritance of Jesus Christ and compress it down to a political border in the Middle East is an insult to the scope of the cross. The land promised to Jacob's true seed is the Kingdom of Heaven, it belongs entirely to the believers in Christ, and it is theirs forever. 4

 

[Jay Ross]

Next Promise : They shall dwell in the Land given unto Jacob forever !

Ezk 37:25

25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

My Paraphrasing of this verse is: -

​

Ezekiel 37:25: - 25 Then they shall dwell in the earth that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children's children, for a period of time where the end point is beyond their ability to comprehend; and My servant David shall be their prince for a period of time which is beyond our ability to comprehend. {Note a.}

​

Note a.: - My understanding of this last bolded phrase is for Eternity.​

This is a very different understanding and as such we will have very different ending points.

 

[brightfame52]

My Paraphrasing of this verse is: -

​

Ezekiel 37:25: - 25 Then they shall dwell in the earth that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children's children, for a period of time where the end point is beyond their ability to comprehend; and My servant David shall be their prince for a period of time which is beyond our ability to comprehend. {Note a.}

​

Note a.: - My understanding of this last bolded phrase is for Eternity.​

This is a very different understanding and as such we will have very different ending points.

Jay Ross,

Your paraphrasing of Ezekiel 37:25 exposes the exact pivot point of our disagreement. You look at the terms "land" and "for ever" and compress them down to a literalistic, earthly timeline—interpreting the text as a prolonged historical period on this present, physical earth. But by turning the prophetic shadow into the final destination, your framework misses the true, anti-typical depth of what was promised to Jacob's seed.

When we apply the Holy Ghost's own method of comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13), the text completely shatters an earthly, geo-political fulfillment and demands an unshakeable eternal reality.

Let us look at why a strict scriptural comparison proves that this "land" is not a temporal piece of middle-eastern dirt, but the heavenly Kingdom of Heaven:

1. The Patriarchs Refused Your Earthly Timeline (Hebrews 11:9-10, 16)

You argue that the land given to Jacob is this physical earth. But the author of Hebrews explicitly records that the original recipients of the promise—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—completely rejected that literalist interpretation.
Look at Hebrews 11:9–10:

“By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.”

If the literal land under their feet was the ultimate fulfillment of the covenant, why did they confess they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth (Hebrews 11:13)? The text gives the definitive answer in Hebrews 11:16:

“But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”

The heirs themselves looked past the physical shadow of Canaan. They were seeking a heavenly country. To force the final fulfillment back onto a literal, geopolitical strip of land is to drag the glorious, eternal inheritance of the saints down to the elements of the flesh.

2. The True Geography of the Gathering (Ezekiel 37:21 vs. Matthew 8:11)

In Ezekiel 37:21, God promises to gather Israel "from among the heathen... on every side, and bring them into their own land."
You want that "own land" to be Palestine. But Jesus Christ explicitly defines the geography of this global gathering in Matthew 8:11:

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus completely translates Ezekiel's and Isaiah's gathering language. The destination of the elect gathered from "every side" (the east and the west) is the Kingdom of Heaven. The true land of the spiritual Israel is the immediate, glorified presence of God.

3. The "Everlasting Possession" Requires the Eternal State (Genesis 17:8)
When God promised Abraham and his seed "all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession" in Genesis 17:8, the word everlasting (‘olam) demands an unalterable reality.

• This physical planet and its Middle Eastern borders are temporal, mutable, and are explicitly decreed to be burned up and dissolved in the final fire of judgment (2 Peter 3:10).
• Therefore, a physical plot of ground cannot be an "everlasting" possession.

The true, un-failing "Canaan" is the New Heavens and the New Earth—the eternal state where the Tabernacle of God is permanently with men (Revelation 21:1–3). That is the city with foundations that Jacob looked for.

4. Who Are the True Heirs? (Galatians 3:29)

The final nail in the literalist error is the identity of the people who inherit this land. It does not belong to a Christ-rejecting, physical lineage according to the flesh. Galatians 3:29 locks down the legal deed:

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

If you belong to Christ by Phase I (Eternal Election), Phase II (Legal Justification), and Phase III (Vital Regeneration), you are the legal seed. You are a co-heir of the exact same promise given to Jacob. Your inheritance is the heavenly city.

Conclusion: Our Ending Points Are Indeed Radically Different

You say we have very different ending points, and that is entirely correct.

• Your system ends with a localized, earthly real-estate kingdom that has to be managed in historical time.
• Our system ends with the absolute, cosmic victory of the Lamb—where the true, multi-ethnic Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) inherits the entire new creation in the Kingdom of Heaven forever. See Rom 4:13

The physical land was a pedagogical type and shadow. The Church of the Elect is the true Holy Nation (1 Peter 2:9), and the heavenly country is their eternal home. Your conditional, localized framework is completely neutralized and dismissed by the explicit text of the New Testament.

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[Jay Ross]

ay Ross,

Your paraphrasing of Ezekiel 37:25 exposes the exact pivot point of our disagreement. You look at the terms "land" and "for ever" and compress them down to a literalistic, earthly timeline—interpreting the text as a prolonged historical period on this present, physical earth. But by turning the prophetic shadow into the final destination, your framework misses the true, anti-typical depth of what was promised to Jacob's seed.

When we apply the Holy Ghost's own method of comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13), the text completely shatters an earthly, geo-political fulfillment and demands an unshakeable eternal reality.

Let us look at why a strict scriptural comparison proves that this "land" is not a temporal piece of middle-eastern dirt, but the heavenly Kingdom of Heaven:

Let me just respond by quoting scripture which I have corrected for contextual inaccuracies.



Which was violently taken from "Israel" forcibly as foretold to King Solomon in 70 AD.: -



This is what God foretold to Jacob on his way up to Haran to get himself a wife from his mother's family.



And which Ezekiel added to in this passage: -



and this passage: -



At this point in time, God has not begun gathering Israel to Himself yet and planting them in His fertile soil/field. It is my understanding that God will not begin gathering Israel to Himself until the fourth age of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities has come to its conclusion
around the year 2044/2045 AD. The visible sign for us will be the gathering of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon where they will be judged at the same time as the Heavenly hosts will be judged in heaven.

If the Kings of the earth do not gather at Armageddon around 2044/2045 AD to be judged, then what I write and post is meaningless. The evaluation of what I post on this forum is up to the other members to determine.

Shalom

 

[brightfame52]

At this point in time, God has not begun gathering Israel to Himself yet and planting them in His fertile soil/field. It is my understanding that God will not begin gathering Israel to Himself until the fourth age of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities has come to its conclusion
around the year 2044/2045 AD. The visible sign for us will be the gathering of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon where they will be judged at the same time as the Heavenly hosts will be judged in heaven.

Its absolutely fine to be able to quote and read scripture, but the problem lies in not having understanding of the scriptures. Jesus lets us know that's very important, Read this Luke 24:44-45

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Prov 4:7

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.