What is God looking for from us?

[Episkopos]

What is God looking for from us? How important is what we do and how we represent the Lord in our daily lives? Too often the religion that has come into being that calls on the name of the Lord looks to what can be received through faith in God, to the detriment of God's purpose. Who is choosing whom?

 

[Randy Kluth]

What is God looking for from us? How important is what we do and how we represent the Lord in our daily lives? Too often the religion that has come into being that calls on the name of the Lord looks to what can be received through faith in God, to the detriment of God's purpose. Who is choosing whom?

God needs nothing except the completion of His Word. For our part, we need to do whatever liberty He gives us and whatever He demands of us--we just need to ensure we're not trying to "help" God do anything, and let Him obtain all of the glory. Then we'll be fine.

There's nothing God needs from us. But what pleases Him is when we act appropriately with respect to His nature as Creator and with respect to His Word of purpose.

The central purpose of Man is to live in the Image of God. This doesn't take from our liberty to act as God's children. But it does mean that whatever we do we do all for the glory of God, to depict Him the way He is, as Lord and in terms of morality. When we live in spiritual relationship with God our conscience is the guide as to whether we are cooperating with His Word or not.

The gifts God gave us determine our interests. And we should pursue those. Our gifts serve God and others both. They also serve us, because they are our interests.

Some of our interests seem selfish, but they are not necessarily. Some of our interests are in serving others, and often this is good. But our services are not needed by God--they are just *wanted* by God, as a father wants his children to be successful in whatever they do.

A father wants the best for his children. When we are aware of that we will have a positive view, despite going through tough times. The end will justify the means.

 

[Episkopos]

A comment from another online contributor: God is looking for worshipers in the spirit and truth, He is looking for our surrender, humility, childlike faith, fear of Him like Abraham, so he can reveal His secret to us, and we can be His vessels that He can move through.

 

[bdavidc]

What is God looking for from us? How important is what we do and how we represent the Lord in our daily lives? Too often the religion that has come into being that calls on the name of the Lord looks to what can be received through faith in God, to the detriment of God's purpose. Who is choosing whom?

Once again, you are twisting Scripture to promote a false gospel built around your own interpretations of righteousness, holiness, and salvation.

Where does Scripture teach two standards of salvation? Romans 3:24 says we are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that salvation is God's gift, not something earned through works.

You claim Abel was naturally righteous and accepted through his obedience. Yet Hebrews 11:4 explicitly says, "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." Stop replacing what Scripture says with what you want it to mean!

You also warn Christians not to claim they are saints or seated in heavenly places unless they attain your supposed higher level of holiness. Ephesians 2:6 declares that God has already seated believers in heavenly places in Christ Jesus! Who gave you authority to deny that promise?

You are confusing the fruit of salvation with the means of salvation. Christians are commanded to pursue holiness, but their righteousness does not earn the salvation Christ purchased.

Romans 4:5 declares that God "justifieth the ungodly" through faith, not through a special level of spiritual achievement.

Stop inventing conditions for salvation that God never established! Galatians 1:8 warns against preaching another gospel, and that warning applies directly to teachings that replace God's grace with human righteousness.

Either establish your two standards of salvation from Scripture in context or stop presenting your invented doctrine as God's truth.

 

[quietthinker]

A comment from another online contributor: God is looking for worshipers in the spirit and truth, He is looking for our surrender, humility, childlike faith, fear of Him like Abraham, so he can reveal His secret to us, and we can be His vessels that He can move through.

God has revealed his secret to us, it's just that it is not seen except by a few.
God has condescended to come and serve us.

 

[Bob]

Once again, you are twisting Scripture to promote a false gospel built around your own interpretations of righteousness, holiness, and salvation.

Where does Scripture teach two standards of salvation? Romans 3:24 says we are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that salvation is God's gift, not something earned through works.

You claim Abel was naturally righteous and accepted through his obedience. Yet Hebrews 11:4 explicitly says, "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." Stop replacing what Scripture says with what you want it to mean!

You also warn Christians not to claim they are saints or seated in heavenly places unless they attain your supposed higher level of holiness. Ephesians 2:6 declares that God has already seated believers in heavenly places in Christ Jesus! Who gave you authority to deny that promise?

You are confusing the fruit of salvation with the means of salvation. Christians are commanded to pursue holiness, but their righteousness does not earn the salvation Christ purchased.

Romans 4:5 declares that God "justifieth the ungodly" through faith, not through a special level of spiritual achievement.

Stop inventing conditions for salvation that God never established! Galatians 1:8 warns against preaching another gospel, and that warning applies directly to teachings that replace God's grace with human righteousness.

Either establish your two standards of salvation from Scripture in context or stop presenting your invented doctrine as God's truth.

Thank you for the comments.

The necessity of salvation stems from our inherently “flawed” nature. That we are born ”flawed” can be readily seen by spending time with toddlers. They are self-centered, full of selfish desires, and execute behaviors that will yield those desires. In particular, at that age they want ALL of what they desire (e.g., toys) and will use force as necessary to gather all they desire to themselves.

So: should Christian parents be explaining faith and salvation to their toddlers? Is that what God expects?

Caring parents will teach them the basics of Love Your Neighbor: sharing with others and being gentle with them. As children grow older, parents can add other characteristics of Love Your Neighbor, such as humility, thankfulness, forgiveness. . . . Children should learn to be actively in the world, but never of the world. And somewhere along the way, they should be taught that it is no accident that the best foundation for a community is the nuclear family: life-long, faithful, monogamous couples and their children.

Understanding what it means to love God takes years and maturity. Concepts like justification by faith and salvation possibly even more.

But as adult Christians we should never assume that a focus on faith and salvation can replace the fundamentals underpinning God’s expectations: loving Him and our neighbors.

Blessings.

 

[Wrangler]

What is God looking for from us? How important is what we do and how we represent the Lord in our daily lives? Too often the religion that has come into being that calls on the name of the Lord looks to what can be received through faith in God, to the detriment of God's purpose. Who is choosing whom?

Once again, you are twisting Scripture to promote a false gospel built around your own interpretations of righteousness, holiness, and salvation.

Where does Scripture teach two standards of salvation?

@bdavidc, for God sakes, take your medicine! @Episkopos didn’t say anything about 2 standards of salvation. And he’s asking questions, not ‘twisting Scripture.’ Seems to me you’re carrying a disagreement from another thread into this thread.

Let me ask you a question; do you think there are people who look to what can be received through faith in God, to the detriment of God's purpose?

 

[bdavidc]

Thank you for the comments.

The necessity of salvation stems from our inherently “flawed” nature. That we are born ”flawed” can be readily seen by spending time with toddlers. They are self-centered, full of selfish desires, and execute behaviors that will yield those desires. In particular, at that age they want ALL of what they desire (e.g., toys) and will use force as necessary to gather all they desire to themselves.

So: should Christian parents be explaining faith and salvation to their toddlers? Is that what God expects?

Caring parents will teach them the basics of Love Your Neighbor: sharing with others and being gentle with them. As children grow older, parents can add other characteristics of Love Your Neighbor, such as humility, thankfulness, forgiveness. . . . Children should learn to be actively in the world, but never of the world. And somewhere along the way, they should be taught that it is no accident that the best foundation for a community is the nuclear family: life-long, faithful, monogamous couples and their children.

Understanding what it means to love God takes years and maturity. Concepts like justification by faith and salvation possibly even more.

But as adult Christians we should never assume that a focus on faith and salvation can replace the fundamentals underpinning God’s expectations: loving Him and our neighbors.

Blessings.

I agree that Christians are commanded to love God and love their neighbors. Jesus made that very clear in Matthew 22:37-40. And I certainly agree that parents should teach their children to love others, share, forgive, and treat people with kindness.

But I think we need to be careful not to confuse teaching children good behavior with teaching them the gospel.

You asked whether Christian parents should explain faith and salvation to their toddlers. Why wouldn't we begin teaching our children about Jesus as soon as they are able to understand? They may not understand everything at an early age, but that doesn't mean we should wait years before introducing them to the Savior.

Paul reminded Timothy that "from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15).

And Proverbs 22:6 tells us to "Train up a child in the way he should go."

Now, concerning loving God and our neighbors, I don't disagree with you. But here's the important distinction I was making in my original response.

We are not saved because we love God and our neighbors perfectly. We are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

But notice what the very next verse says:

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

Do you see the difference? Good works are what God has called those who belong to Christ to walk in. They are not what purchases our salvation.

And I would never suggest that someone can claim to love God while having no concern for how they treat others. First John 4:20 directly confronts that kind of hypocrisy.

My concern in this discussion is not that Christians are being encouraged to love God and their neighbors. My concern is when people begin teaching that our own righteousness or some higher level of holiness is what makes us acceptable to God.

We must never confuse the evidence of genuine faith with the basis of our salvation.

Both are important, but they are not the same thing.

 

[Bob]

I agree that Christians are commanded to love God and love their neighbors. Jesus made that very clear in Matthew 22:37-40. And I certainly agree that parents should teach their children to love others, share, forgive, and treat people with kindness.

But I think we need to be careful not to confuse teaching children good behavior with teaching them the gospel.

You asked whether Christian parents should explain faith and salvation to their toddlers. Why wouldn't we begin teaching our children about Jesus as soon as they are able to understand? They may not understand everything at an early age, but that doesn't mean we should wait years before introducing them to the Savior.

Paul reminded Timothy that "from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15).

And Proverbs 22:6 tells us to "Train up a child in the way he should go."

Now, concerning loving God and our neighbors, I don't disagree with you. But here's the important distinction I was making in my original response.

We are not saved because we love God and our neighbors perfectly. We are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

But notice what the very next verse says:

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

Do you see the difference? Good works are what God has called those who belong to Christ to walk in. They are not what purchases our salvation.

And I would never suggest that someone can claim to love God while having no concern for how they treat others. First John 4:20 directly confronts that kind of hypocrisy.

My concern in this discussion is not that Christians are being encouraged to love God and their neighbors. My concern is when people begin teaching that our own righteousness or some higher level of holiness is what makes us acceptable to God.

We must never confuse the evidence of genuine faith with the basis of our salvation.

Both are important, but they are not the same thing.

Thank you for continuing the discussion.

Clearly, teaching salvation is your passion. You could tell us how that influences your interactions with others.

In contrast, some of us are passionate about details, whether it is the many of characteristics of Love Your Neighbor, or the minutiae of scripture. As it happens, those details figure decisively in our interactions with others.

Both must be important to God’s expectations for us, because scripture encompasses both.

Note: in Romans 2: 14-15 and Acts 28:1-7 the Apostle Paul observed that even though the gentiles he encountered were pagans, many had a culture with characteristics similar to Love Your Neighbor. This cannot have been an accident: God must have been working in their lives before they knew Him. God “prepared the ground,” so to speak, for Paul to plant the seeds of the gospel.

Peace.

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you for continuing the discussion.

Clearly, teaching salvation is your passion. You could tell us how that influences your interactions with others.

In contrast, some of us are passionate about details, whether it is the many of characteristics of Love Your Neighbor, or the minutiae of scripture. As it happens, those details figure decisively in our interactions with others.

Both must be important to God’s expectations for us, because scripture encompasses both.

Note: in Romans 2: 14-15 and Acts 28:1-7 the Apostle Paul observed that even though the gentiles he encountered were pagans, many had a culture with characteristics similar to Love Your Neighbor. This cannot have been an accident: God must have been working in their lives before they knew Him. God “prepared the ground,” so to speak, for Paul to plant the seeds of the gospel.

Peace.

Yes. Human righteousness has always existed because man is created in God's image. Otherwise Abel could not have been deemed righteous. But evangelicals don't know that. Or if they did before, they have traded in sound wisdom for folly based on self-interest and the ability to name and claim salvation based on their beliefs. People will go to great lengths to justify themselves...and the delusion is believed by all who hate the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree that Christians are commanded to love God and love their neighbors. Jesus made that very clear in Matthew 22:37-40. And I certainly agree that parents should teach their children to love others, share, forgive, and treat people with kindness.

I'm sure God is flattered about your approval of His ways.

But I think we need to be careful not to confuse teaching children good behavior with teaching them the gospel.

We don't want to teach children that good behaviour is actually a good thing. I see your point. Otherwise there could be righteous people. And that would be a threat TO YOUR SELF-INTEREST.

You asked whether Christian parents should explain faith and salvation to their toddlers. Why wouldn't we begin teaching our children about Jesus as soon as they are able to understand? They may not understand everything at an early age, but that doesn't mean we should wait years before introducing them to the Savior.

Paul reminded Timothy that "from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15).

And Proverbs 22:6 tells us to "Train up a child in the way he should go."

Now, concerning loving God and our neighbors, I don't disagree with you. But here's the important distinction I was making in my original response.

We are not saved because we love God and our neighbors perfectly. We are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

I see how your mind twists the truth to destroy righteousness....so that you can attain to God in your own mind while still in your sins.

You think we have to love others PERFECTLY to be righteous? Do you love others PERFECTLY now that you are religiously indoctrinated?


You have no clue as to what salvation in Christ really is. To love as Jesus loved IS to love perfectly from the perfection of being IN Christ. You have no clue as to what that is...obviously.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

But notice what the very next verse says:

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

Do you see the difference? Good works are what God has called those who belong to Christ to walk in. They are not what purchases our salvation.

And I would never suggest that someone can claim to love God while having no concern for how they treat others. First John 4:20 directly confronts that kind of hypocrisy.

My concern in this discussion is not that Christians are being encouraged to love God and their neighbors. My concern is when people begin teaching that our own righteousness or some higher level of holiness is what makes us acceptable to God.

We must never confuse the evidence of genuine faith with the basis of our salvation.

Both are important, but they are not the same thing.

Total confusion and hypocrisy. You condemn yourself before God by claiming holiness for yourself in your sins. But faith in Christ gives us the power OVER sin to walk as Jesus walked. And the righteous do what is right...there is no need to be perfect to do what any man has always done...men like Abel whose sacrifice was accepted by God. You are obviously a Cain in the story. NO doubt at all.

 

[Bob]

Yes. Human righteousness has always existed because man is created in God's image. Otherwise Abel could not have been deemed righteous. But evangelicals don't know that. Or if they did before, they have traded in sound wisdom for folly based on self-interest and the ability to name and claim salvation based on their beliefs. People will go to great lengths to justify themselves...and the delusion is believed by all who hate the truth.

Thank you.

Can we explore “Human righteousness has always existed because man is created in God’s image”?

As a toddler, Abel would have behaved like any other today. Perhaps his parents taught him how God expected him to behave, or perhaps God impressed upon him what God expected of him, or perhaps a combination. It seems far-fetched that he lifted himself “by his bootstraps,” relying on a core of innate righteousness to overcome his inherited animal-like behavior.

In contrast, Cain rebelled, as many do, being totally unpersuaded by parents and God.

Blessings.

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you.

Can we explore “Human righteousness has always existed because man is created in God’s image”?

As a toddler, Abel would have behaved like any other today. Perhaps his parents taught him how God expected him to behave, or perhaps God impressed upon him what God expected of him, or perhaps a combination. It seems far-fetched that he lifted himself “by his bootstraps,” relying on a core of innate righteousness to overcome his inherited animal-like behavior.

In contrast, Cain rebelled, as many do, being totally unpersuaded by parents and God.

Blessings.

And today those who stand against a basic human righteousness are being totally unpersuaded by the bible and God...and those who speak the truth in His name.

 

[bdavidc]

Thank you for continuing the discussion.

Clearly, teaching salvation is your passion. You could tell us how that influences your interactions with others.

In contrast, some of us are passionate about details, whether it is the many of characteristics of Love Your Neighbor, or the minutiae of scripture. As it happens, those details figure decisively in our interactions with others.

Both must be important to God’s expectations for us, because scripture encompasses both.

Note: in Romans 2: 14-15 and Acts 28:1-7 the Apostle Paul observed that even though the gentiles he encountered were pagans, many had a culture with characteristics similar to Love Your Neighbor. This cannot have been an accident: God must have been working in their lives before they knew Him. God “prepared the ground,” so to speak, for Paul to plant the seeds of the gospel.

Peace.

I agree that how we treat others matters to God. And I certainly agree that even unbelievers can show genuine kindness and compassion toward others.

But notice what Romans 2:14-15 actually says. Paul explains that the Gentiles have the work of the law written in their hearts, with their conscience bearing witness. That explains why people who do not know God can still recognize right and wrong.

And in Acts 28:2, the people of Malta showed Paul and the others great kindness. But Scripture doesn't tell us that God was preparing those particular people to receive the gospel. That is a possibility, but we shouldn't present it as something the passage actually teaches.

My concern has never been with loving our neighbors or doing good works. Jesus commands both.

The point I'm making is that even the kindest person still needs Jesus Christ for salvation.

As Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

So yes, teach children to love others, show kindness, forgive, and live godly lives. But above all, teach them why they need a Savior.

Good behavior is important, but it cannot save a sinner. Only Jesus Christ can do that.

 

[bdavidc]

I'm sure God is flattered about your approval of His ways.



We don't want to teach children that good behaviour is actually a good thing. I see your point. Otherwise there could be righteous people. And that would be a threat TO YOUR SELF-INTEREST.


I see how your mind twists the truth to destroy righteousness....so that you can attain to God in your own mind while still in your sins.

You think we have to love others PERFECTLY to be righteous? Do you love others PERFECTLY now that you are religiously indoctrinated?


You have no clue as to what salvation in Christ really is. To love as Jesus loved IS to love perfectly from the perfection of being IN Christ. You have no clue as to what that is...obviously.

Total confusion and hypocrisy. You condemn yourself before God by claiming holiness for yourself in your sins. But faith in Christ gives us the power OVER sin to walk as Jesus walked. And the righteous do what is right...there is no need to be perfect to do what any man has always done...men like Abel whose sacrifice was accepted by God. You are obviously a Cain in the story. NO doubt at all.

You seem more interested in attacking me personally than addressing what Scripture actually says. Where did I ever say good behavior isn't important? Where did I say Christians should continue living in sin? I said neither.

You keep confusing the righteousness we receive through faith in Christ with the righteous living that should follow salvation.

Romans 4:5 says, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Did you catch that? God justifies the UNGODLY through faith. Not because they first attained some higher level of holiness.

And your example of Abel actually proves my point. Hebrews 11:4 says, "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." Scripture says BY FAITH, not because Abel earned God's acceptance through his own righteousness.

You ask whether I love others perfectly. No, and neither do you. First John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Does that mean Christians should continue in sin? Absolutely not! Romans 6:1-2 answers that question directly.

But overcoming sin is not the price we pay to receive salvation. It is part of the new life God calls us to walk in through Jesus Christ.

You can call me Cain, accuse me of hypocrisy, or question my salvation all you want. None of that changes what Scripture teaches.

So answer the real question. Are sinners justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, as Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 teach, or must they first attain your standard of righteousness to be accepted by God?

That is the issue you keep avoiding.

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 4:5 says, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Did you catch that? God justifies the UNGODLY through faith. Not because they first attained some higher level of holiness.

You miss the meaning of every verse.

It doesn't say that the ungodly have faith. That is an oxymoron. It says those who put their faith in a God who justifies the ungodly. The ungodly are not believers. Those who trust in God are believers. When we allow God to justify whom He wills...INCLUDING the ungodly.....THEN our faith justifies us. Otherwise we become like the modern evangelicals that condemn the ungodly to hell.

And I teach that God justifies non-believers by their works as it says many dozens of times in the bible. Maybe if you read the bible for a second time you might catch the idea??????

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm sure God is flattered about your approval of His ways.



We don't want to teach children that good behaviour is actually a good thing. I see your point. Otherwise there could be righteous people. And that would be a threat TO YOUR SELF-INTEREST.


I see how your mind twists the truth to destroy righteousness....so that you can attain to God in your own mind while still in your sins.

You think we have to love others PERFECTLY to be righteous? Do you love others PERFECTLY now that you are religiously indoctrinated?


You have no clue as to what salvation in Christ really is. To love as Jesus loved IS to love perfectly from the perfection of being IN Christ. You have no clue as to what that is...obviously.

Total confusion and hypocrisy. You condemn yourself before God by claiming holiness for yourself in your sins. But faith in Christ gives us the power OVER sin to walk as Jesus walked. And the righteous do what is right...there is no need to be perfect to do what any man has always done...men like Abel whose sacrifice was accepted by God. You are obviously a Cain in the story. NO doubt at all.

Yes, man can be righteous up to a point, but in spite of Abel's own righteousness he still needed to make sacrifice to God in order to be accepted. Why is that I wonder? Could it be because he still had sin along with some righteousness, and his own righteousness fell short? And what is all this a picture/shadow of?

Why are believers accepted in the Beloved and what is our sacrifice? WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION OF SINS. Cain's sacrifice did not involve the shedding of blood. There is no shedding of blood with those who are trying to be saved by their own righteousness.......hence no remission of their sins.

This came to me from the LORD this morning, praise and glory to His name..... I never understood the story of Cain and Able and why God didn't accept Cain's sacrifice until just now. Thank you Jesus.

 

[Lizbeth]

You miss the meaning of every verse.

It doesn't say that the ungodly have faith. That is an oxymoron. It says those who put their faith in a God who justifies the ungodly. The ungodly are not believers. Those who trust in God are believers. When we allow God to justify whom He wills...INCLUDING the ungodly.....THEN our faith justifies us. Otherwise we become like the modern evangelicals that condemn the ungodly to hell.

And I teach that God justifies non-believers by their works as it says many dozens of times in the bible. Maybe if you read the bible for a second time you might catch the idea??????

God justifying non-believers and ungodly by their works.....that is talking about a time before Christ is it not? But I seem to notice that all who God accepted even in the old testament He brought into a living two way relationship with Him. In other words He revealed Himself to them. Much like how the Lord reveals Himself to us when we come to faith and we also embark on a living relationship with Him.

So I think that must be true of anyone He is choosing to justify/save this side of the cross....He will reveal Himself (Christ!) to them. And we have many testimonies of Him doing just that sovereignly without a human preacher. Muslims for example, places where it is hard for the gospel to be preached....many testimonies of the Lord giving dreams, visions and speaking directly to Muslims and revealing Jesus to them. So yes, in this way He has mercy on who He has mercy (and it IS mercy, undeserved) and justifies who He wills. And they can be either fairly righteous according to a human standard, or not righteous at all (both good and "bad"). The bible says His voice has gone out to the ends of the earth and the gospel preached to every creature.......one way or the other. The bible says His arm is not too short to save.....even where there is no man to help, His own arm will work salvation. Amen.

 

[Lizbeth]

Total confusion and hypocrisy. You condemn yourself before God by claiming holiness for yourself in your sins. But faith in Christ gives us the power OVER sin to walk as Jesus walked. And the righteous do what is right...there is no need to be perfect to do what any man has always done...men like Abel whose sacrifice was accepted by God. You are obviously a Cain in the story. NO doubt at all.

And further to my previous post about Cain and Abel, it's important that we notice that Abel wasn't declared righteous apart from the shedding of blood.....because not until that sacrifice was made was he declared righteous:

Heb 11:4

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

In other words, it translates to us that righteousness was imputed to Abel because of his FAITH. And of course our sacrifice, which Abel's sacrifice was a shadow/picture of, is the shed blood of Christ....our faith in it/Him. Thank you precious Lord.

 

[David1701]

Yes. Human righteousness has always existed because man is created in God's image. Otherwise Abel could not have been deemed righteous. But evangelicals don't know that. Or if they did before, they have traded in sound wisdom for folly based on self-interest and the ability to name and claim salvation based on their beliefs. People will go to great lengths to justify themselves...and the delusion is believed by all who hate the truth.

Here is the condition of fallen man, in his natural state, in the sight of God.

Rom. 3:9-19 (W.E.B.)
9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written,
“There is no-one righteous;
no, not one.

11 There is no-one who understands.
There is no one who seeks after God.

12 They have all turned aside.
They have together become unprofitable.
There is no-one who does good,
no, not so much as one.”

13 “Their throat is an open tomb.
With their tongues they have used deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is under their lips”;

14 “whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood.

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways.

17 The way of peace, they haven’t known.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”


19 Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgement of God.

Eph. 2:1-3
1 You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience;
3 among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Rom. 8:7-9
7 because the mind of the flesh is hostile towards God; for it is not subject to God’s law, neither indeed can it be.
8 Those who are in the flesh can’t please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.

This is why we must be born again, by a miracle of the Holy Spirit, in order to perceive and enter the Kingdom of God, through faith in Jesus Christ. Having been made born again, having repented and believed in Jesus Christ, we then bear fruit to God, by the Holy Spirit who indwells us, some thirty, some sixty and some an hundredfold.