but first, Exodus

[bbyrd009]

'The pseudo-name Exodus is a common Greek word which means "way out" or "departure."'
"
Our English name Exodus is (still confusingly) associated with one of two Great Departures that play a pervasive role in the Bible. The name Exodus belongs to the Out-Of-Egypt theme, which serves as the ruffled twin brother of the more dignified Out-Of-Babylon theme. Both departure themes appear to be somewhat based on several actual historical departures, but mostly denote an intellectual breaking away from — or rather: a feeding off of — a host or parent tradition (we'll discuss that below).

It should be stressed that although this set of twin-themes is endowed with respective apexes (namely the Exodus and the Return), it is pervasive and does not describe isolated events, but rather a pendular swinging between two extremes. The Bible incorporates this pendular twin as early as in the travels of Abraham — who came out of Babylon, went into Egypt due to a famine, came out of Egypt very wealthy, sent his chief of staff back into Babylon for a wife for Isaac... and so on — and their significance is so great that even an author as late as Matthew made sure to weave it into his account (see Matthew 2:1 and 2:15).

For reasons we shall examine below, the Out-Of-Egypt theme is mostly associated with the tribe of Levi (key Levite names such as Moses and Aaron are adaptations of Egyptian names) whereas the Out-Of-Babylon theme is mostly associated with Levi's younger brother Judah. And sure enough, Jesus' father-by-law Joseph came from Judah, but His mother Mary was a kinswoman of Elizabeth, and Luke points out that she (and her husband Zacharias and thus their son John the Baptist) were Levites (compare Luke 1:36 with 1:5).

That means that even though Jesus was a Jew by law, by name and by upbringing, His human genes were entirely Levite.

The greatest blunder...
" The amazing name Exodus: meaning and etymology

 

[Stranger]

'The pseudo-name Exodus is a common Greek word which means "way out" or "departure."'
"
Our English name Exodus is (still confusingly) associated with one of two Great Departures that play a pervasive role in the Bible. The name Exodus belongs to the Out-Of-Egypt theme, which serves as the ruffled twin brother of the more dignified Out-Of-Babylon theme. Both departure themes appear to be somewhat based on several actual historical departures, but mostly denote an intellectual breaking away from — or rather: a feeding off of — a host or parent tradition (we'll discuss that below).

It should be stressed that although this set of twin-themes is endowed with respective apexes (namely the Exodus and the Return), it is pervasive and does not describe isolated events, but rather a pendular swinging between two extremes. The Bible incorporates this pendular twin as early as in the travels of Abraham — who came out of Babylon, went into Egypt due to a famine, came out of Egypt very wealthy, sent his chief of staff back into Babylon for a wife for Isaac... and so on — and their significance is so great that even an author as late as Matthew made sure to weave it into his account (see Matthew 2:1 and 2:15).

For reasons we shall examine below, the Out-Of-Egypt theme is mostly associated with the tribe of Levi (key Levite names such as Moses and Aaron are adaptations of Egyptian names) whereas the Out-Of-Babylon theme is mostly associated with Levi's younger brother Judah. And sure enough, Jesus' father-by-law Joseph came from Judah, but His mother Mary was a kinswoman of Elizabeth, and Luke points out that she (and her husband Zacharias and thus their son John the Baptist) were Levites (compare Luke 1:36 with 1:5).

That means that even though Jesus was a Jew by law, by name and by upbringing, His human genes were entirely Levite.

The greatest blunder...
" The amazing name Exodus: meaning and etymology

Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. He was a Jew through and through. He was not of the Levite tribe nor was He Levite by upbringing. Levi was not the only tribe involved in the Exodus. All twelve were.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

FYI... Both Simeon and Levi lost some favor when they murdered those guys they talked into being circumcised.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Basic problem with any critisim of the OT is that the critics don't have the language knowledge of Robert 'dick' Wilson who spent a lifetime studying the languages used in the OT and comparing it with inscriptions found on walls, statues etc.
His study showed that the OT was what it claims to be.
That those who claim it is a late edited production are wrong because the word usage, grammer etc match the words,grammer to be expected by an auther who, like Moses was educated in Egypt, or like Danial was educated in Persia etc etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Both departure themes appear to be somewhat based on several actual historical departures"
"That means that even though Jesus was a Jew by law, by name and by upbringing..."

i'm not seeing any other refute up there that requires a reply, so i'll just stay out of those.
Mary being Levite seems pretty solid, and the tribes intermarried in those days anyway, so the author's statement there seems acceptable to me, but it's hardly a deal-breaker or anything anyway imo
But if one of you guys has more let me know.

"Imagine a hardy over-the-fence shout-out with your neighbor. At first glance this event seems mostly typified by your differences, but in an absolute sense, it wholly depends on your mutual agreement on language and rules of social engagement. Your argument may take ten minutes, but it took both of you years and years of childhood learning to achieve the level of synchronicity required for a complex pas de deux as an over-the-fence shout-out.

For decades, the bellicose world of the twentieth century was explained to school children by telling them that we humans have always been at each other's throats — that's how we could determine who was the übermensch (or Superman in the US; same ideology) and who wasn't — but modern archeology is showing with increasing relief that in the good old days, mankind very rarely went to war and pursued truth, justice and international trade over anything else. The internet is literally as old as civilization, and has merely grown faster over the centuries. Mankind has always existed not as a bunch of isolated individuals but as a world-wide super-organism from which every individual ultimately derived his definition.

• Every single great library that has been unearthed in the past century contained international correspondence and most commonly in multiple languages. The Hittite library found at Hattusa, for instance, contained more than 10,000 texts in seven different Indo-European and Semitic languages.
• The peoples of antiquity were far less interested in violently purloining other people's stuff than scholars of the previous century used to insinuate. There surely were instances of thievery and conquest, but the overwhelming tendency was to fairly exchange goods and much more importantly: skills and knowledge. It's often overlooked how complicated bronze making is, and how many subsidiary technologies have to be in place for it to be possible, yet the Bronze Age began pretty much simultaneously from the Indus Valley to Britain, irrefutably as a result of a continuous world-wide exchange of ideas. And to name another example: inventing the boomerang can hardly be ascribed to serendipity or accident, yet pre-historic boomerangs have been found from Australia to Egypt and even the Netherlands..." ibid

 

[bbyrd009]

You have an Exodus to experience yourself, will be the gist here
once you get free of the literalists anyway

 

[amadeus]

FYI... Both Simeon and Levi lost some favor when they murdered those guys they talked into being circumcised.

And Dan was left out completely in Revelation chapter 7.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

'The pseudo-name Exodus is a common Greek word which means "way out" or "departure."'
"
Our English name Exodus is (still confusingly) associated with one of two Great Departures that play a pervasive role in the Bible. The name Exodus belongs to the Out-Of-Egypt theme, which serves as the ruffled twin brother of the more dignified Out-Of-Babylon theme. Both departure themes appear to be somewhat based on several actual historical departures, but mostly denote an intellectual breaking away from — or rather: a feeding off of — a host or parent tradition (we'll discuss that below).

It should be stressed that although this set of twin-themes is endowed with respective apexes (namely the Exodus and the Return), it is pervasive and does not describe isolated events, but rather a pendular swinging between two extremes. The Bible incorporates this pendular twin as early as in the travels of Abraham — who came out of Babylon, went into Egypt due to a famine, came out of Egypt very wealthy, sent his chief of staff back into Babylon for a wife for Isaac... and so on — and their significance is so great that even an author as late as Matthew made sure to weave it into his account (see Matthew 2:1 and 2:15).

For reasons we shall examine below, the Out-Of-Egypt theme is mostly associated with the tribe of Levi (key Levite names such as Moses and Aaron are adaptations of Egyptian names) whereas the Out-Of-Babylon theme is mostly associated with Levi's younger brother Judah. And sure enough, Jesus' father-by-law Joseph came from Judah, but His mother Mary was a kinswoman of Elizabeth, and Luke points out that she (and her husband Zacharias and thus their son John the Baptist) were Levites (compare Luke 1:36 with 1:5).

That means that even though Jesus was a Jew by law, by name and by upbringing, His human genes were entirely Levite.

The greatest blunder...
" The amazing name Exodus: meaning and etymology

I don’t have any thing to contribute to the topic except, maybe, Exodus is coming out of the world? Kept reading past “the greatest blunder” and this stood out concerning the church. It is not really on the topic but was on the link you shared: “There is no us versus them; there's only us for them.”

 

[bbyrd009]

Exodus is coming out of the world

yes. The--or one--counterfeit would be cloistering of some variety, as we are to be in the world but not of it.
Protestants mostly offer some cloister model i guess?

 

[amadeus]

yes. The--or one--counterfeit would be cloistering of some variety, as we are to be in the world but not of it.
Protestants mostly offer some cloister model i guess?

Nearly every church group [man's churches... which one or ones are not?] equates "coming out the world [the exodus] with coming into their "church".

Remember one "exodus" seen in scripture is God's people coming out of Egypt or out of bondage. The bondage for us is sin which would then be equal to "Egypt". So then into the wilderness they went and we come. Our wilderness certainly in part is the mess of our physical places of worship supposedly made into "cloisters"...? But are they places to meditate on God's truth, whatever it is, or places to snag people into the predetermined set of rules or doctrines of their very special group [so considered by most of all of the membership]...hmmm?

So then perhaps the Exodus is seen better here...?

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Rev 18:4

That is the one and the other is to come out of Babylon and Babylon means "Confusion".

So then come of her and her sins, as well as come out of her and her confusion. Again the trouble so often is that some man calls us out in order for us to come into the place he says is God's place. But who built that place? Was it built by God or was it built by man? Is it out of sin and out of confusion or is it at least a place where there is hope of coming out of those things?

And...?

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Brought out of Egypt it would seem.

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:15

And then also...

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

If these churches are filled with sin and confusion, are they the places to come into when we come out of her?

There is an old hymn containing these words:

"He brought me out of the miry clay,
He set my feet on the Rock to stay;"

The Rock is of course, not this church or that church, but.. "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." I Cor 10:4

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock." Matt 7:24-25

So then out of Egypt and out of Babylon and onto the Rock.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nearly every church group [man's churches... which one or ones are not?] equates "coming out the world [the exodus] with coming into their "church".

Remember one "exodus" seen in scripture is God's people coming out of Egypt or out of bondage. The bondage for us is sin which would then be equal to "Egypt". So then into the wilderness they went and we come. Our wilderness certainly in part is the mess of our physical places of worship supposedly made into "cloisters"...? But are they places to meditate on God's truth, whatever it is, or places to snag people into the predetermined set of rules or doctrines of their very special group [so considered by most of all of the membership]...hmmm?

So then perhaps the Exodus is seen better here...?

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Rev 18:4

That is the one and the other is to come out of Babylon and Babylon means "Confusion".

So then come of her and her sins, as well as come out of her and her confusion. Again the trouble so often is that some man calls us out in order for us to come into the place he says is God's place. But who built that place? Was it built by God or was it built by man? Is it out of sin and out of confusion or is it at least a place where there is hope of coming out of those things?

And...?

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Brought out of Egypt it would seem.

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:15

And then also...

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

If these churches are filled with sin and confusion, are they the places to come into when we come out of her?

There is an old hymn containing these words:

"He brought me out of the miry clay,
He set my feet on the Rock to stay;"

The Rock is of course, not this church or that church, but.. "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." I Cor 10:4

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock." Matt 7:24-25

So then out of Egypt and out of Babylon and onto the Rock.

New we are on the same page

God bless

 

[bbyrd009]

Again the trouble so often is that some man calls us out in order for us to come into the place he says is God's place. But who built that place? Was it built by God or was it built by man? Is it out of sin and out of confusion or is it at least a place where there is hope of coming out of those things?

nice, hence the NT direction turn aside to no one on the road when seeking a new town
the desire to fall back on a friend rather than stay on the road

 

[bbyrd009]

Remember one "exodus" seen in scripture is God's people coming out of Egypt or out of bondage. The bondage for us is sin which would then be equal to "Egypt". So then into the wilderness they went and we come. Our wilderness certainly in part is the mess of our physical places of worship supposedly made into "cloisters"...? But are they places to meditate on God's truth, whatever it is, or places to snag people into the predetermined set of rules or doctrines of their very special group [so considered by most of all of the membership]...hmmm?

an heir is under servants until he comes of age,
and crosses the Sea of Reeds, ya.
Reeds make papyrus

 

[bbyrd009]

If these churches are filled with sin and confusion, are they the places to come into when we come out of her?

who needs a shepherd the most? seems counterintuitive maybe, but "filled with sin and confusion" might not be the best way to perceive a congregation, when we have come out of it ourselves, right? So imo that becomes a test of forgiveness
love...believes all things

 

[bbyrd009]

New we are on the same page

well....same chapter maybe :)
lots of ppl in congregations actually seeking God too
and their "beliefs" are as irrelevant as yours or mine imo,
except as to how their "beliefs" inform their actions, works (a product of faith);
no one gets judged for their beliefs
everyone gets judged for their works

this is also why it's so bad to deem faith "belief" imo

 

[bbyrd009]

who needs a shepherd the most?

where else can one find such well prepped soil, also

do we look in a mirror and then walk away, immediately forgetting what we looked like?

 

[bbyrd009]

the desire to fall back on a friend rather than stay on the road

which lesson we basically all pick up on our road anyway i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

"
The earliest reference to the Out-Of-Babylon and Out-Of-Egypt twin-theme occurs of course in Paradise. Many enthusiasts have wondered where the Garden of Eden might have been located, and since the Bible mentions that two of its rivers were the mighty Tigris of Assyria and Euphrates of Babylon (Genesis 2:14), it was at some point concluded that Paradise must have been in Mesopotamia. But this assumption is obviously based on an error, because one of the other two paradisal rivers (even the first or oldest two) flows through Africa, namely the Gihon, which flows around the whole land of Cush, which is Nubia (Genesis 2:13). The fourth (or rather the first or oldest) is the Pishon, which flows around Havilah. Where Havilah might have been is unclear, but the Pishon may very well have been the Indus River.

The Garden of Eden, therefore, was spread out over the entire Fertile Crescent, or rather: the whole known world, and the expulsion from it had nothing to do with movement in the geographical sense but in the complexity sense. The Bible progresses along a complexity scale and not a temporal or geographical one (see our articles on the names Abraham or Hebrew), and the Garden was situated in the קדם (qedem), which means "east" only secondarily. This word's primary meaning is "past" or "antiquity" (as in Psalm 74:12: God is my King from of old).

Paradise was not somewhere, it is some-how--
we lose it every time we let the pendulum swing. Contrary to myth, early man was never a fearful oaf, huddled alone in drafty caves, but was always lord of creation. There was no animal on earth that could come close to thinking about competing with a closely bonded team of two dozen, heavily armed human beings. Thanks to their innate level of synchronicity, creatures such as ants and bees are formidable super-organisms and animals such as dolphins and great apes are so efficient that most of their time is spent in leisure. Human society is like an anthill made from dolphins. Until recently, humans had nothing to fear, and today our only true enemy is ourselves.

According to the archeological record, humans have been making music for at least fifty thousand years and art such as rock paintings for at least thirty. The relatively huge amount of pre-historic art that has miraculously survived from that long ago suggests that the original prevalence must have been staggering. Without a doubt, the old world was a carnival of human intervention and since the animal world is riddled with symbols (color codes, for instance) it seems more than logical that early man was even able to deliberately manipulate the behavior of animals by means of art.

Fruits were growing on trees everywhere and animals were abundant. For thousands and thousands of years, the entire Fertile Crescent was one big Bahama and there were no rich or poor and there was party for all. There is even enticing evidence to suggest that pre-historic man possessed seriously advanced technology, arguably of a kind that we don't even have (yet).

The pow-wows of early man were not intended to pursue "progress", but rather an emergency board meeting of the wisdom elite that realized that somehow the wrong kind of people was steering all of mankind away from the good life. Doubtlessly their second great concern was that the perpetrators came from their own ranks: the learned-but-not-too-wise who chose to engage their crafts in service of their own benefit and subsequent disadvantage of the people they were supposed to govern."
ibid

 

[mjrhealth]

everyone gets judged for their works

Only if they have no faith.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

That is where we are supposed to be, but so few believe,

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Far to many working for nothing,

Luk 10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
Luk 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

God bless

 

[bbyrd009]

Only if they have no faith.

horse puckey, you are misrepresenting "freed from the law" with that, and i could Quote vv the rest of the day for "those with faith will be judged by their works," the ones you repeatedly refuse to address mjr.