This is where we differ. I hold that all means all...whereas you believe that all is referring to some within every people group.
The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity
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I like this approach. I think it would be good to have a website where views are presented followed by questions. Any debate would come in the form of another thread with opposing views followed by questions. And so on...........
There's no reason we can't seek to be more truthful about what we and other people believe right here in this thread.
This assumes all posters are lairs? I think everyone is sincere searching for the truth.
Ultimately that is one of the big points of disagreement. Now what to do? We can...
1) Waste time trying to convince each other our particular view is God's Truth
2) Or leave testifying of Truth to the Spirit, and strive to better understand each other.
I didn't say anything about anyone being a lair!
Again, my urging is to be more truthful about what each of us believe and more truthful in understanding about what other people believe.
God didn't write the scriptures only to the Jewish people. The common person who reads interprets all as meaning all.
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Or,
3) We can agree to disagree, and resort to praying for those who differ from us, if we think of their pov as being something that will keep them out of the kingdom.
Option 3 involves a person just not being on the forum.
It is a valid option, but I was more looking for one in which a forum plays a role.
Preacher4Truth
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It's so nice that he clarified, isn't it? Ah, feels much better now.
No matter, what he says is a false and baseless charge.
Like I told @Phoneman777 in the past, the same asinine argument he attempts to put on us can be played onto him.
We have biblical support for our beliefs, however. Theirs is seen as pure philosophy, driveling on about what they believe without using Scripture, then rejecting clear Scripture.
They have zero biblical support for their vote themselves into heaven doctrine, that they came to God in their genuine love for him while dead in sin (while Christ shows this to be impossible); and they had their own faith that didn't come from God, it came from self, and they flexed it with all their might to get themselves to where God saw them do this in time, and then rewarded them.
We derive our teaching from exegesis, from clear texts in context -- they see things not mentioned in Scripture, and believe things not mentioned in Scripture. We show them all glory is to God, they steal that back in a follow-up post to restore the glory to their behavior, to self, to what they've done to get chosen into heaven.
So, the conclusion is it is they who must be the "enlightened ones" the "special ones" as they have to receive their beliefs from a "higher plane and external source" other than Scripture, because again, their beliefs are not within its pages.
But, I'm not going to stoop to his callow level and lay a "Luciferian" charge on him. He's just mistaken and is in ignorance and perhaps his eyes and understanding will be opened as Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:15ff.
Some people are beyond knowing truth. We need to understand this and treat them kindly.
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Hence my urging for LISTENING to what another person says and being truthful about what those beliefs are.
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