My Journey through the Lens of Paranormal and Charismatic Experiences

[CoreIssue]

Just trusting the pros know how to translate better than we do.

Well look at all the other translation in that link I provided. None of them agree with the visionary realm choice.

But they all get the same point across.

 

[Dave L]

Well look at all the other translation in that link I provided. None of them agree with the visionary realm choice.

But they all get the same point across.

“Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,” (Colossians 2:18) NASB

 

[CoreIssue]

Apostasy

 

[CoreIssue]

Mysticism

 

[Berserk]

(4) THE SPIRITUAL HIGHLIGHT OF MY LIFE: MY SPIRIT BAPTISM

At age 16 I was so nagged by doubts about the reliability of Scripture and the authenticity of charismatic manifestations in church that my faith crisis prompted me to spend a week at Manhattan Beach Camp near Ninette, Manitoba with the hope that God would meet me in the Pentecostal camp meetings in the huge outdoor amphitheater there. I responded to the encouragement to seek God at the altar after the services. But my heart felt like stone when I did because I felt tempted to succumb to wishful thinking and just speak gibberish in the flesh. So on Tuesday, I went on a long 7 mile country prayer walk, pleading with God to resolve my crippling doubts and pledging my willingness to die in His service, if He would only make Himself real to me. When I returned from my walk, I was famished and went to the camp dining hall to buy dinner. But then it occurred to me that I should instead fast and put the money I would have spent on dinner into the evening offering plate. So I did and then attended the evening camp meeting.

At the end of the service, as I had done previously in vain, I walked to the altar up front and knelt in prayer. My heart again felt like stone and I was determined not to succumb to the power of suggestion and wishful thinking by stepping out in faith and speaking in tongues. Soon everyone had left and I lingered in my depressing prayer vigil in the mostly darkened amphitheater. Suddenly I felt a warm breeze, which I assumed had blown in off of the adjacent Pelican Lake. I was shocked when I realized that this breeze was in fact the wind of the Holy Spirit! The Spirit immediately overpowered my resistance and I found myself speaking in tongues at the top of my voice. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love, each wave more intense than the last, until I felt like I might die! At one point, my ego seemed on the verge of collapse into the divine mind. I can only describe this outpouring of divine love as a hundred times more intense and sweeter than I have experienced before or since. This proved to be unquestionably the highlight of my life and, decades later, I continue to draw emotional nourishment from the memory of that epic day.

After several minutes, I noticed a few spectators sitting reverently nearby. I asked one lady why she was staring at me and she replied, "Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!" I returned to my knees to continue feasting on God's presence. Then I was interrupted by a Lutheran minister, who tapped me on the shoulder and said he was there only as an interested spectator of other religious traditions and didn't believe in speaking in tongues. But he could sense that God was doing a special work in my spirit and he asked me to pray for him. I didn't argue wit him, but just touched him gently on the forehead and he exploded in other tongues!

When I returned to my cabin, I realized that God had spoken to me, though not in an audible voice or a message printed on the neon screen of my mind. God told me, "You desperately need answers to your vexing questions. But right now answers are not good for you because answers would lead you to live too much in your head rather than from your heart. I'm calling you to live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." That calling led me to get an MDiv from Princeton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman religion from Harvard.

Like many others, I believe that speaking in tongues is like a gateway drug that leads to other gifts of the Spirit. Shortly after the experience, I had my first of many experiences of "the word of knowledge (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-10)." I suddenly knew that I would obtain the highest high school GPA in the province as a gift from God to signify my academic calling. At a funeral a few years ago, my cousin reminded me that I had informed him of this divine message before it was fulfilled. Previously, my academic performance had been nothing special. So I believe that my Baptism in the Holy Spirit had "renewed my mind (as per Romans 12:1-2). Duff Roblin, the Premier of the province, awarded my a scholarship in recognition of this achievement. I believe this recognition supported my earlier attempts to witness to classmates, which had seemed to give me a reputation as a religious fanatic. To God be the glory!

Quite apart from the teaching of Paul and the Book of Acts on this matter, I'm convinced that if any of you had experienced what I did that fateful night, it would by BY FAR the spiritual highlight of your life. It is the reason why I never drifted off into agnosticism.

 

[Berserk]

But application of "the word of knowledge' can be a learning curve.
(5) After this experience, my first exercise of “the word of knowledge” was the inner knowing that my future career would be aided by being honored for the highest GPA in my province in my senior year… A few years ago, my psychiatrist cousin reminded me that I had told him I would achieve this goal. What makes this revelation such a gift is the fact that I had previously not done particularly well in high school. When the premier of my province announced this achievement at my high school commencement, it was one of my most thrilling experiences not because of the ego gratification, but because it proved that my Spirit baptism had truly placed me in the center of God’s will.
But “the word of knowledge” is a spiritual gift that can be part of a learning curve and its application is not always easy to grasp. Consider these 2 examples:

(6) At age 19, I was a Winnipeg college student. About 5 years my senior, my friend Dallas was the leader of our church youth group of about 150. I had just been Best Man at his wedding and was now invited to the newlyweds post-Christmas dinner. After eating, we played table tennis in their basement. Dallas mentioned that he was going deer hunting in northern Manitoba the next day and I instantly felt a sense of dread. It seemed as if I saw his skeleton and was certain that he would be killed in an accident if he went on this trip. Horrified, I felt compelled to share my premonition with him. He was offended and blamed my so-called premonition on my anti-hunting views. I had no such views, though I’ve never gone hunting myself. What could I do? I had no evidence beyond my certainty. I guess I hoped God would confirm my premonition to Dallas.

A few days later, we had a New Year’s Eve service at our church. What happened when I arrived at the church was straight out of a horror movie. 3 young girls in our youth group approached me, giggling, and said. You do know that Dallas was killed yesterday in a hunting accident. He was riding a snowmobile with his gun leaning beside him and hit a bump, which caused his rifle to discharge into his shoulder. He bled to death before his hunting buddies got him to a doctor. Thr girls giggled and one said to the other, “Wow, I guess we sure ruined his day!” It was as if Hell was taunting me for my friendship with Dallas. What was so funny about their youth leader’s death? I charitably assumed that their was just a nervous laughter. I later obsessed over what this tragedy meant. Why was I given this premonition if it would be useless to prevent his death? And was his death predestined fate?

(7) In my senior year at Princeton Seminary, I was about to return home for Christmas vacation. My friend Ted had just been accepted in the D. Phil. program in New Testament at Cambridge U. and I also wanted to apply to that doctoral program. So I went to Ted’s dorm room and asked if I could borrow his Cambridge catalogue. As I did, I suddenly “saw” his skeleton and knew that his death was imminent. But what could I do? I didn’t know how he would die. So I tried to put this knowledge out of my mind and flew home for Christmas. When I returned, I learned from Ted’s friend Ken that Ted had been killed in a car accident. Ken was driving him home to Ohio, when Ken’s car slipped on an icy freeway onramp and the car crashed into a pole, killing Ted and breaking Ken’s arm. I had tried to suppress my premonition. In retrospect, I wondered if God alerted me to Dallas’s and Ted’s fate because He wanted me to intercede for their protection. These premonitions kept coming and were never wrong! Stay tuned for more accounts.

 

[Berserk]

As long as you interpret things through the lens of Pentecostalism never going to understand. That is why I started the threads on mysticism and world unity which covers things like your talking about.

I never dismiss gifts. Having more than one how could I? But they're not tools for answers your questions. They are tools for God to use to his purposes.

Yes, and as this thread will demonstrate, my exercise of "the word of knowledge" has been mightily used "for His purposes," as have spiritual gifts operating through our prayer group to routinely perform mighty miracles.

 

[Berserk]

(8) My next experience of the "word of knowledge" was unequivocally helpful. As part of Princeton's field education, I worked as a chaplain assistant at the Newark College of Engineering. The night prior to my drive to Newark, I had a nightmare, a premonitory dream in which I knew my life would be in danger and I cried out to God for mercy. On the drive home the next day, my car died in the dark a New Jersey freeway. I was fortunate to escape the fast-moving traffic and my car was quickly totaled by another speeding car. I called my friend Peter at my dorm and he and another friend, Mike, drove up to fetch me. Both of them had experienced nightmares of impending disaster the previous night! By these 3 dream warnings, God showed me that He was in charge and was my divine protector.

 

[Dave L]

(4) My next experience of the "word of knowledge" was unequivocally helpful. As part of Princeton's field education, I worked as a chaplain assistant at the Newark College of Engineering. The night prior to my drive to Newark, I had a nightmare, a premonitory dream in which I knew my life would be in danger and I cried out to God for mercy. On the drive home the next day, my car died in the dark a New Jersey freeway. I was fortunate to escape the fast-moving traffic and my car was quickly totaled by another speeding car. I called my friend Peter at my dorm and he and another friend, Mike, drove up to fetch me. Both of them had experienced nightmares of impending disaster the previous night! By these 3 dream warnings, God showed me that He was in charge and was my divine protector.

But, today's gifts are nothing like the originals, now long expired. You have nothing that compares to the first century originals.

 

[Berserk]

But, today's gifts are nothing like the originals, now long expired. You have nothing that compares to the first century originals.

On the contrary, modern spiritual gifts produce even greater results than "the originals" in fulfillment of Jesus' promise not to the apostles, but to "the one who believes:"

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes in me will do the works that I do and, fact, will do greater works than these, because I a, going to the Father (John 14:12)."

You are blind to this fact for at least 2 reasons:
(1) You overlook the fact that the Books of Acts presents the spiritual highlights of decades of missionary work.
(2) You are projecting your own church tradition's relatively inept display of spiritual power. This ineptness is illustrated by your emphasis on what has NOT happened during your Christian walk (an experience, I'm sure, that is not shared by less fortunate members of your church tradition) rather by the miracles and dramatic answers to prayer that HAVE happened in your life.

"But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the [God] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."

 

[Berserk]

(9) This next encounter with "the word of knowledge" is probably my 2nd most treasured spiritual highlight in my life. I had applied to Harvard's doctoral program in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman backgrounds, but my a fellow seminarian told me I'd be rejected just like he was. So where would I study next after my graduation from Princeton's MDiv program in the next few months?

As I was worrying about this, George ( a godly fellow seminarian) knocked on my door one Tuesday night to say, "Don, I've been praying for you, and the Lord has shown me that you're going to be accepted by Harvard." George was not even a friend, but he must have picked up my dream from table gossip in the seminary dining hall. In any case, his warm assurance melted my fears and was transferred to me! What a blessing he was! The next night was absolutely surreal!

Another seminarian, Ann, came to my dorm room and falsely accused me of calling her to tell her that she was too emotionally unstable to be in seminary! The guy's voice must have sounded like mine. Ann had just broken up with John, a frequent dining companion of mine, and Ann probably assumed that John gossiped to me about his reasons for breaking up with her. In fact, John never said a word about this. How does one defend himself when he is blindsided by a false accusation like this? I was actually quite fond of Ann for being a great comfort when my boyhood spiritual mentor, Nick, was killed in a car accident.

In the midst of her harangue, there was a knock on the door, and I was summoned to answer a pay phone call down the hall. It was John Strugnell of Harvard, the professor who controlled the Dead Sea Scroll translation project at that time. He congratulated me on my acceptance at Harvard with scholarship assistance. Imagine how emotionally torn I was by joyful gratitude for George's "word of knowledge" and anguish over Ann's false accusation. When I returned to my room, Ann asked me, "Who was that?" perhaps thinking that John had called to tip me off about her accusation. She looked very puzzled when I shared my joy at just having being admitted to Harvard's doctoral program. Then she asked me, "Are you all right? You're right palm is streaming blood onto your pants an the floor!" I felt no pain, but I nearly freaked out when I saw all that blood! This is the first and only time I have experience the stigmata. Ann seemed to take the combination of this bleeding and the timing of my great news as a sign of my innocence, and so, she hastily left. I'm so grateful that God orchestrated these coincidences to vindicate me, encourage me, and let me know that His guiding hand was on my life. My only regret is that I can't recall tracking George down to let him know how grateful I was for his effective prayer support.

 

[Dave L]

On the contrary, modern spiritual gifts produce even greater results than "the originals" in fulfillment of Jesus' promise not to the apostles, but to "the one who believes:"

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes in me will do the works that I do and, fact, will do greater works than these, because I a, going to the Father (John 14:12)."

You are blind to this fact for at least 2 reasons:
(1) You overlook the fact that the Books of Acts presents the spiritual highlights of decades of missionary work.
(2) You are projecting your own church tradition's relatively inept display of spiritual power. This ineptness is illustrated by your emphasis on what has NOT happened during your Christian walk (an experience, I'm sure, that is not shared by less fortunate members of your church tradition) rather by the miracles and dramatic answers to prayer that HAVE happened in your life.

"But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the [God] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."

You do not have the gifts. They came only through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. They ended with the apostles.

 

[Dave L]

On the contrary, modern spiritual gifts produce even greater results than "the originals" in fulfillment of Jesus' promise not to the apostles, but to "the one who believes:"

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes in me will do the works that I do and, fact, will do greater works than these, because I a, going to the Father (John 14:12)."

You are blind to this fact for at least 2 reasons:
(1) You overlook the fact that the Books of Acts presents the spiritual highlights of decades of missionary work.
(2) You are projecting your own church tradition's relatively inept display of spiritual power. This ineptness is illustrated by your emphasis on what has NOT happened during your Christian walk (an experience, I'm sure, that is not shared by less fortunate members of your church tradition) rather by the miracles and dramatic answers to prayer that HAVE happened in your life.

"But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the [God] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."

Anyone who belongs to Christ does the greater works, because he rules the universe from heaven and believers are his body.

 

[Dave L]

(4) THE SPIRITUAL HIGHLIGHT OF MY LIFE: MY SPIRIT BAPTISM
[I feel the need to repeat this experience because of its status as the most powerful and spiritually important life experience.]

At age 16 I was so nagged by doubts about the reliability of Scripture and the authenticity of charismatic manifestations in church that my faith crisis prompted me to spend a week at Manhattan Beach Camp near Ninette, Manitoba with the hope that God would meet me in the Pentecostal camp meetings in the huge outdoor amphitheater there. I responded to the encouragement to seek God at the altar after the services. But my heart felt like stone when I did because I felt tempted to succumb to wishful thinking and just speak gibberish in the flesh. So on Tuesday, I went on a long 7 mile country prayer walk, pleading with God to resolve my crippling doubts and pledging my willingness to die in His service, if He would only make Himself real to me. When I returned from my walk, I was famished and went to the camp dining hall to buy dinner. But then it occurred to me that I should instead fast and put the money I would have spent on dinner into the evening offering plate. So I did and then attended the evening camp meeting.

At the end of the service, as I had done previously in vain, I walked to the altar up front and knelt in prayer. My heart again felt like stone and I was determined not to succumb to the power of suggestion and wishful thinking by stepping out in faith and speaking in tongues. Soon everyone had left and I lingered in my depressing prayer vigil in the mostly darkened amphitheater. Suddenly I felt a warm breeze, which I assumed had blown in off of the adjacent Pelican Lake. I was shocked when I realized that this breeze was in fact the wind of the Holy Spirit! The Spirit immediately overpowered my resistance and I found myself speaking in tongues at the top of my voice. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love, each wave more intense than the last, until I felt like I might die! At one point, my ego seemed on the verge of collapse into the divine mind. I can only describe this outpouring of divine love as a hundred times more intense and sweeter than I have experienced before or since. This proved to be unquestionably the highlight of my life and, decades later, I continue to draw emotional nourishment from the memory of that epic day.

After several minutes, I noticed a few spectators sitting reverently nearby. I asked one lady why she was staring at me and she replied, "Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!" I returned to my knees to continue feasting on God's presence. Then I was interrupted by a Lutheran minister, who tapped me on the shoulder and said he was there only as an interested spectator of other religious traditions and didn't believe in speaking in tongues. But he could sense that God was doing a special work in my spirit and he asked me to pray for him. I didn't argue wit him, but just touched him gently on the forehead and he exploded in other tongues!

When I returned to my cabin, I realized that God had spoken to me, though not in an audible voice or a message printed on the neon screen of my mind. God told me, "You desperately need answers to your vexing questions. But right now answers are not good for you because answers would lead you to live too much in your head rather than from your heart. I'm calling you to live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." That calling led me to get an MDiv from Princeton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman religion from Harvard.

Like many others, I believe that speaking in tongues is like a gateway drug that leads to other gifts of the Spirit. Shortly after the experience, I had my first of many experiences of "the word of knowledge (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-10)." I suddenly knew that I would obtain the highest high school GPA in the province as a gift from God to signify my academic calling. At a funeral a few years ago, my cousin reminded me that I had informed him of this divine message before it was fulfilled. Previously, my academic performance had been nothing special. So I believe that my Baptism in the Holy Spirit had "renewed my mind (as per Romans 12:1-2). Duff Roblin, the Premier of the province, awarded my a scholarship in recognition of this achievement. I believe this recognition supported my earlier attempts to witness to classmates, which had seemed to give me a reputation as a religious fanatic. To God be the glory!

Quite apart from the teaching of Paul and the Book of Acts on this matter, I'm convinced that if any of you had experienced what I did that fateful night, it would by BY FAR the spiritual highlight of your life. It is the reason why I never drifted off into agnosticism.

Why do I feel you are feeding everyone a line?

 

[CoreIssue]

(9) So far. I have shared my own experiences of exercising "the word of knowledge." A preacher's word of knowledge involved me and had a profound impact on my family. It happened in Winnipeg, Canada shortly before my return home for Christmas from my first year at Princeton Seminary. My parents and brother went to hear a Pentecostal faith healer named Rev. Hart. The meeting was held at a smelly rescue mission because no Pentecostal church would agree to sponsor him. That slight astounds me in retrospect. Here is what happened.

After preaching, Rev. Hart exercised the word of knowledge to heal. First, he singled out Mom from the crowd, pointed to her, and said, "Sister, you are in pain from a calcium deposit in your shoulder." Mom confirmed this word of knowledge. Then he said, "Well, the Lord has just healed you!" And she was instantly healed and free of discomfort! Then he pointed to my brother and said, "You have a kidney problem!" My brother denied this, but then Rev. Hart added, "The symptom of it is a stabling pain in the small of your back." This was true and my brother acknowledged this! "Well, the Lord has just healed you." The pain permanently left my brother! Rev. Hart concluded the service with a remarkable confession. He said he was quitting his healing mininstry because his advancing age deprived him of the discipline to spend the several hours a day in prayer that were needed to keep his gifts active.

Now came the part that blew my mind. After the service, my Mom followed Rev. Hart to his car to ask him a question about me. Before she could do so, Rev, Hart turned and said, "You're worried about your son back in the States, aren't you?" This meeting happened in my home town, Winnipeg, Canada. He continued, "You think he's getting too liberal!" I gulped as Mom got to this part of her story. She sighed and said, "Yes." Rev. Hart paused a minute, then smiled and said, "He's all right!" I heaved a sigh of relief.

Later that Christmas Mom picked up on some trivial thing I said and observed, "See, you really are getting too liberal!" Laughing, I replied,"Mom. Rev. Hart just gave you a word of knowledge that I wasn't too liberal." She just smiled impishly and replied, "Oh, what does he know anyway?" Years later, Mom passed away and I realized that her impish witty response was my favorite moment with her.

Line them up and knock them down! Some of the videos show exactly what you claim. One big con job.
Pentecostalism

 

[CoreIssue]

First, Rev. Hart knew neither me nor my\ family. So he had no way of knowing about either my mother's calcium deposits or my brother's problem with stabbing pain the small of his back.
2nd, both my brother and my mother can attest to being instantly healed!
Third, the word of knowledge about me had a healing and reassuring effect on my parents. You don't get the fact that this happened in Canada (another country) and Rev. Hart had no way of knowing that I was studying in an American seminary.
Forth, Rev. Hart soon retired after this service because advancing age made too hard for him to devote the hours in prayer that were needed to retain his spiritual gifts. But then you obviously lack respect for the power of waiting on God in sustained devotion to seeking "God's face."

Thread on Pentecostalism covers all of those things.

If something supernatural occurs such as you always attributed to God. But it may not be from God.

 

[Berserk]

Thread on Pentecostalism covers all of those things.

If something supernatural occurs such as you always attributed to God. But it may not be from God.

By your logic, Jesus' healings were based on occult practices and the Jews who attributed his so-called miracles to the demonic were justified! Of course, Jesus attributes their charge to blasphemy agsainst the Holy Spirit, the true source of His power and you are gullty of t he same sin. Thus, you need to read carefully my refutation of your position in your Pentecostalism thread.

 

[CoreIssue]

By your logic,Jesus' healings were based on occult practices and the Jews who attributed his so-called miracles to the demonic were justified! Of course, Jesus attributes their charge to blasphemy agsainst the Holy Spirit, the true source of His power and you are gullty of t he same sin. Thus, you need to read carefully my refutation of your position in your Pentecostalism thread.

I never said that.

But what you are practicing is not biblical. But it is solidly found in occult.

You do not understand that there are non-Christians who exercise things similar to gifts of the Holy Spirit. But you call all of them gifts.

 

[Berserk]

CoreIssue: "I never said that."
But you clearly implied it; and I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise.

CoreIssue: "But what you are practicing is not biblical. But it is solidly found in occult."

So were Jesus' healing arts, as I have demonstrated--and you, sadly, have no response!
I have demonstrated that what I am "practicing" is solidly grounded in Scripture--and you have no answer!

CoreIssue: "You do not understand that there are non-Christians who exercise things similar to gifts of the Holy Spirit. But you call all of them gifts."

And you do not understand that the healing practices of Jesus and Paul were borrowed from occult practitioners of their day!
Nor do you realize that Satan is in the business of spiritual counterfeiting. And I repeat: in your blindness, your attitudes neatly fit the requirements for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit--and again, you have no answer. Indeed, you have not even studied the issue!

 

[CoreIssue]

CoreIssue: "I never said that."
But you clearly implied it; and I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise.

CoreIssue: "But what you are practicing is not biblical. But it is solidly found in occult."

So were Jesus' healing arts, as I have demonstrated--and you, sadly, have no response!
I have demonstrated that what I am "practicing" is solidly grounded in Scripture--and you have no answer!

CoreIssue: "You do not understand that there are non-Christians who exercise things similar to gifts of the Holy Spirit. But you call all of them gifts."

And you do not understand that the healing practices of Jesus and Paul were borrowed from occult practitioners of their day!
Nor do you realize that Satan is in the business of spiritual counterfeiting. And I repeat: in your blindness, your attitudes neatly fit the requirements for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit--and again, you have no answer. Indeed, you have not even studied the issue!

I most assuredly have studied.

So explain what is going on here. You cannot find any of this in the Bible:
Pentecostalism