Earth is Warming from Inside out NOT Outside in and that is Causing our Climate Change!

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Yehren

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Hansen's model was interesting, because it did predict three different scenarios, depending on how much carbon would be emitted. Turns out, he was right, too.

umm , no he was not.

Well, let's take a look...
HansenProjection89DP.gif

Notice that scenario B, some efforts to contain carbon release, but not great efforts, has an excellent fit with the actual recorded rise in temperatures. This when deniers were predicting cooling. So yes, that's a really good result.

Here is a link to a GHE proponent

Let's see what that site says:

"The first transient climate projections using GCMs are 30 years old this year, and they have stood up remarkably well. "

Indeed, they have. From your link:

h88_proj_vs_real.png

So the remarkably good prediction of 1985 continues into the new century.

Planetary physicists disagree with you. I'll go with the guys who make a living at it.

many do, some do not. agreement on models based on a fundamentally flawed paradigm can have all kinds of good math and yet still not properly represent reallity.

The fact that Hansen's model represented reality remarkably well, does increase one's confidence in it.

Corpernicus ' circular orbit being, of course, an example..

Actually, Copernicus noted difficulties with his numbers for that reason. But he did not say that the planets orbited the sun. He was quite aware of the likely fate he would have if he had done that.

He merely demonstrated that if one assumed circular orbits, that the positions of the planets would be more accurately and easily determined than if one assumed everything orbited the Earth. Which is quite true. But it was only better, not exact.

When Kepler finally got a good mathematical fit for orbital data, the good math convinced him to abandon the classical idea of circular orbits. Being a pretty good mathematician and an excellent scientist, Kepler realized that the math alone showed the elliptical nature of orbits.

Now since you like graphs, i thought you might like this one: Different Trends

I don't think you know what this graph says. Notice that the Pinatubo eruption was followed by smaller increases in temperatures than before. The cause is not CFCs; it's mostly sulfur areosols, producing a cooling effect in the upper atmosphere.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...ruptions-can-alter-global-temperatures/350863
 

Jay Ross

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Hello

The predictions models are flawed in one aspect in my understanding. There is one source of "heat" that cannot be measured and quantified, nor are the causational effect being addressed in the models.

Jeremiah did in his book of prophecy tell us that the weather would change and the reason for that change happening, but the correction requires us to all take a knee in repentance.
 

Yehren

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The predictions models are flawed in one aspect in my understanding. There is one source of "heat" that cannot be measured and quantified, nor are the causational effect being addressed in the models.

Sounds unlikely, given that many scientists have been working on this for decades. One wouldn't think they'd miss something so obvious. Do you have some data to show?
 

Philip James

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Why is Venus So Hot? - Universe Today


haha. thanks for the laugh. that whole scenario is cooked up by those who think Venus has been warmed up by the Sun rather than having cooled to its current condition.. Their paradigm is fundamentally broken. the second law of thermo still stands.

the Sun has been cooking off Venus' h20 for billions of years now, there's not much left, and nary a drop of water has touched the surface
 

Philip James

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But as you now realize, the oceans actually cause higher temperatures than the land

If you are trying to say that warmer oceans means warmer atmosphere, I agree. But what warms the oceans?

Here's a few things:
solar radiation
geothermal
infalling mass

human waste heat to I guess, but thats prob even less significant than infalling mass.


Peace!
 

Jay Ross

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Sounds unlikely, given that many scientists have been working on this for decades. One wouldn't think they'd miss something so obvious. Do you have some data to show?

Yes, the very models that you present.
 

Yehren

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Yes, the very models that you present.

Show us that and explain how it supports your ideas.
If you are trying to say that warmer oceans means warmer atmosphere, I agree. But what warms the oceans?

Here's a few things:
solar radiation
geothermal
infalling mass

Now the important thing is to show us the relative effect of each. What do you have?
 

Philip James

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Let's see what that site says:

oh yes, lets..

"Estimates of CO2 growth in Scenarios A and B were quite good"

"The observed changes 1984-2017 are 0.19±0.03ºC/decade (GISTEMP), or 0.21±0.03ºC/decade (Cowtan and Way), lying between Scenario B and C,"


yep, missed it... but hey, if we adjust for this, or that, or this.. and change that parameter... hey its close enough...

Actually, Copernicus noted difficulties with his numbers for that reason. But he did not say that the planets orbited the sun. He was quite aware of the likely fate he would have if he had done that.

He merely demonstrated that if one assumed circular orbits, that the positions of the planets would be more accurately and easily determined than if one assumed everything orbited the Earth.

"There is a common misconception that the Copernican model did away with the need for epicycles. This is not true, because Copernicus was able to rid himself of the long-held notion that the Earth was the center of the Solar system, but he did not question the assumption of uniform circular motion. Thus, in the Copernican model the Sun was at the center, but the planets still executed uniform circular motion about it. As we shall see later, the orbits of the planets are not circles, they are actually ellipses. As a consequence, the Copernican model, with its assumption of uniform circular motion, still could not explain all the details of planetary motion on the celestial sphere without epicycles. The difference was that the Copernican system required many fewer epicycles than the Ptolemaic system because it moved the Sun to the center."

taken from : The Copernican Model: A Sun-Centered Solar System

This is my point. His math was good, his underlying assumption of a circular orbit was fundamentally flawed.

The idea that the sun has warmed planets UP to their current temperature is just as fundamentally flawed

Peace!
 

Philip James

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Show us that and explain how it supports your ideas.


Now the important thing is to show us the relative effect of each. What do you have?

What I don't have, (and would like), is a study of the effect of increased UVB exposure on ocean temp over the last 40 years... if you find one, I'd be very interested..

Peace!
 

Jay Ross

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Show us that and explain how it supports your ideas.

I, like the modellers, have no ability to measure all of the operating influences that are playing out in our present circumstances.

If there is a hand out of funds, then I, as a needy scientist, will present a model that will justify my inclusion for a share in the available funds, to prove whether or not my model is true in its presentation.

Now can you find the cause and resulting impact hidden within the scriptures. It is only a line or so but it is there for those who are searching the scriptures for God's truths.
 

Yehren

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Show us that and explain how it supports your ideas.

I, like the modellers, have no ability to measure all of the operating influences that are playing out in our present circumstances.

There's lot of data.

If there is a hand out of funds, then I, as a needy scientist, will present a model that will justify my inclusion for a share in the available funds, to prove whether or not my model is true in its presentation.

So nothing to show?

Now can you find the cause and resulting impact hidden within the scriptures. It is only a line or so but it is there for those who are searching the scriptures for God's truths.

Oh, if it's a religious belief, there's no evidence required. Only scientific models need evidence.
 

Yehren

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Well, perhaps not. But i think Dr.Ward probably does.. Did you look at his site? His work on volcanoes and ozone levels is worth reading.
oh yes, lets..

"Estimates of CO2 growth in Scenarios A and B were quite good"

"The observed changes 1984-2017 are 0.19±0.03ºC/decade (GISTEMP), or 0.21±0.03ºC/decade (Cowtan and Way), lying between Scenario B and C,"

yep, missed it... but hey, if we adjust for this, or that, or this.. and change that parameter... hey its close enough...

As your guy says, Hansen's model is "quite good." Remarkably good for thirty years out, considering deniers were claiming things were going to cool off. How did Hansen get it right? He assumed that carbon dioxide was the major forcing in the model, with volcanoes as the major cooling effect. Turns out, that was it. He did miss the solar minimum which showed up outside of the usual fluctuations in solar activity, but that's about it.

Instead of cooling as deniers were saying, we've had a strong warming trend.
 

Yehren

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This is my point. His math was good, his underlying assumption of a circular orbit was fundamentally flawed.

I note that a better mathematician, with better data (from his sometime associate, Tycho Brahe) got it exactly right, based only on the math.

The idea that the sun has warmed planets UP to their current temperature is just as fundamentally flawed

Only the gas giants give off more thermal energy than they get from the Sun. So there is that. The Earth would be frozen, absent solar energy.
 

Yehren

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haha. thanks for the laugh. that whole scenario is cooked up by those who think Venus has been warmed up by the Sun rather than having cooled to its current condition.. Their paradigm is fundamentally broken. the second law of thermo still stands.

The second law only applies when there are no external inputs. And of course, the sun greatly heats Venus because of the very thick carbon dioxide atmosphere.
 

aspen

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glaciers melt from the top and the bottom - it is not because the core is hotter. it is because of the running water underneath the glacier - snow works the same way.

Jeez, conservatives will do anything to avoid blame. and liberals will blame humanity for everything.
I really can't take much more bs from either side.

The Most Powerful Evidence Climate Scientists Have of Global Warming
 

Philip James

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As your guy says, Hansen's model is "quite good."

they are not 'my guys' which is why I chose their observations so you could not claim they were from some 'denialist' source..

It's not correlation, but predictions that matter. Models are evaluated according to the predictions they make

Your own words... now considdering their own observations:

"Estimates of CO2 growth in Scenarios A and B were quite good"

"The observed changes 1984-2017 are 0.19±0.03ºC/decade (GISTEMP), or 0.21±0.03ºC/decade (Cowtan and Way), lying between Scenario B and C,"

Do you think it reasonable to assert the model 'is quite good' when observered temp increses are significantly below the predicted temp increase for the observed rise in co2? Where I come from if your predictions are not validated by your observations, then you need to revisit your hypothesis..


Only the gas giants give off more thermal energy than they get from the Sun. So there is that.

This is false. The 2LoT dictates that any body warmer than its surroundings must cool , if you add an energy input then it will cool at a rate greater than the energy input until it reaches the BB temp at which the output is equal to the input.. Until it does so, natural systems will evolve to shed all the input energy plus some amount of its internal energy until it reaches that state.

Mercury may be close to that BB state, also the Moon (although as its still has a small molten core, it too must still be cooling albeit by an insignificant amount).

The flaw in the GHE models is that they assume this cold BB state and then try to raise the temp by adding atmosphere.. In reality a planet loses atmosphere as it cools, so they have it exactly backwards...


Peace!

Happy feast of the Most Holy Body and Blood!
 

Philip James

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glaciers melt from the top and the bottom - it is not because the core is hotter. it is because of the running water underneath the glacier - snow works the same way.

Jeez, conservatives will do anything to avoid blame. and liberals will blame humanity for everything.
I really can't take much more bs from either side.

The Most Powerful Evidence Climate Scientists Have of Global Warming

Hello aspen,

warming oceans are the cause of a warmer atmosphere not the result.

A colder atmosphere cannot heat a warmer ocean. That's basic physics.. the second law of thermodynamics.

Peace!

Happy feast of the Most Holy Body and Blood!
 
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Yehren

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Do you think it reasonable to assert the model 'is quite good' when observered temp increses are significantly below the predicted temp increase for the observed rise in co2?

Well, let's take a look...

iu


Red and black lines are land and ocean observations of actual temps. Notice how close it is to Scenario B. That's a pretty good fit for 30 years out. Just saying. At the same time that deniers were predicting cooling, Hansen got it right. For contrast, let's see what the other side predicted. Comparing Hansen's prediction, the predictions of climate "skeptic" Richard Lindzen, and what actually happened:
iu

One of these things is not like the other. Which one do you think?

Where I come from if your predictions are not validated by your observations, then you need to revisit your hypothesis.

Lindzen doesn't seem to think so.

Only the gas giants give off more thermal energy than they get from the Sun. So there is that.

This is false.

Well, let's take a look...

A feature that makes Jupiter interesting is that it radiates almost twice as much heat as it receives from the sun; this is possible only because it produces its own heat... Jupiter is five times farther from the sun than the Earth is; at this great distance, it receives a fraction of the sun’s warming rays, keeping the planet very cold. Based on the energy Jupiter receives from the sun, astronomers expected it to have a temperature of 105 kelvins (minus 271 degrees Fahrenheit). But an analysis of the infrared light and radio waves received from Jupiter revealed its temperature to be 125 kelvins (minus 235 degrees Fahrenheit).
What Planet Gives Off 2 Times as Much Heat as it Receives From the Sun?[/QUOTE]
 

XRose

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Earth is Warming from Inside out NOT Outside in and that is Causing our Climate Change! "
What no-one can understand is that Earth is filled with warm water.
GOD created Earth as a ball of water and basic elements.
The water separated out and fixed with elemnte to make all the oxides to make a hard shell-crust.
Enoch confirms this at Enoch 3:3.
Forget all the crap about molten core, magma etc.
Believe the Bible.