Marrying The Same Blood

tomwebster said:

So you think Noah cursed Canaan because _______. Sorry, but there are figures of speech that apply whether you like it or not. Noah cursed Canaan because Canaan was the child of Ham through his mother. It's not hearsay, it's SCRIPTURE!

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please back this up with scripture and real evidence, not hearsay and without applying a law that comes into existence thousand years later backwards.

australia said:

You're suggesting then, that not one married man in the history of time has slept with his mother?

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don't put words in my mouth. i made NO such suggestion. please do not distort other people's words and posts.

whirlwind said:

#1. No, it didn't say Ham uncovered the nakedness but....Ham saw the nakedness.


Genesis 9:21-24 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.










#2. No, it is written.





#3. It was important.



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numbers aded by me for clarity:

#1. so what is your point? if he only saw it then he did not have incest andhad no 'love' child.

#2. it is heresy.

#3. to whom?

archaeologist5 said:

keep in mind that Ham had a wife already and would not need to sleep with his mother

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You're using your personal opinion over scripture to support your argument.

australia said:

You're using your personal opinion over scripture to support your argument.

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no where IN scriptures does it say that ham slept with his mother. the jewish laws do not apply as they were given 1-2000 years later approx.

archaeologist5 I think you should read the first earth ages stuff I found.I dont think these people will change there mind

Johnoneone said:

archaeologist5 I think you should read the first earth ages stuff I found.I dont think these people will change there mind

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:lol: When one has truth then...why should one's mind be changed?

The question to me would be....when one is shown the truth in His Word...why would one choose to not believe?





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archaeologist5 said:

numbers aded by me for clarity:

#1. so what is your point? if he only saw it then he did not have incest andhad no 'love' child.

#2. it is heresy.

#3. to whom?

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#1 ~ The point is...it wasn't Ham that took part in the incest. It was the son of Ham...Canaan, which is why Noah cursed Canaan.

Cannan was the one that uncovered. His father Ham saw what happened.


#2 ~ When something is written...it isn't heresy.


#3 ~ It is important to those that search the scriptures to seek wisdom, knowledge and understanding.




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look for the **********

quote 'whirlwind'
#1 ~ The point is...it wasn't Ham that took part in the incest. It was the son of Ham...Canaan, which is why Noah cursed Canaan.

Cannan was the one that uncovered. His father Ham saw what happened.

*********chapter and verse with real evidence to prove that true.


#2 ~ When something is written...it isn't heresy.

*************it isn't written but then you misunderstand the Bible

#3 ~ It is important to those that search the scriptures to seek wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

***********you need a lot of it.

archaeologist5 said:

look for the **********

quote 'whirlwind'
#1 ~ The point is...it wasn't Ham that took part in the incest. It was the son of Ham...Canaan, which is why Noah cursed Canaan.

Cannan was the one that uncovered. His father Ham saw what happened.

*********chapter and verse with real evidence to prove that true.

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First, I am assuming that you now understand what happened and realize it was incest??? Secondly, it is written that "Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness." It didn't say Ham uncovered his father's nakedness but that he saw it. But, someone did for it is also written, concerning Noah, that "he was uncovered within his tent."



Noah awoke and he knew. Did he curse Ham? No, he cursed Canaan.

#2 ~ When something is written...it isn't heresy.

*************it isn't written but then you misunderstand the Bible

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The lineage of Cain and Able is written and as such...isn't heresy. It is misunderstood by many but certainly is not heresy.

#3 ~ It is important to those that search the scriptures to seek wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

***********you need a lot of it.

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Now...was that nice?

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.


learn to apply the Bible correctly.

​

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I'm learning daily...



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whirlwind said:

:lol: When one has truth then...why should one's mind be changed?

The question to me would be....when one is shown the truth in His Word...why would one choose to not believe?





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Repackaging the bible to any ones wishes is all the rage today. Nothing different with the 3 earth ages, its another in a long line self serving truths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu
Earth ages is the first teaching taught when this message board opened, what do you think its core values are. Freedom of interpretation, the more everyone do it the less crazy 3 earth ages sound. That may be why so many here resist searching the scriptures. If people look to close the my see the truth. Spirits from xenu living again on earth looks a lot like spirits from 1 earth age reliving on earth now. Same story retold using the bible.

In its public statements, the Church of Scientology has been reluctant to allow any mention of Xenu. A passing mention by a trial judge in 1997 prompted the Church's lawyers to have the ruling sealed, although this was reversed.[sup][52][/sup] In the relatively few instances in which it has acknowledged Xenu, Scientology has stated the story is a religious writing that can be seen as the equivalent of the Old Testament—in which miraculous events are described that are unlikely to have occurred in real life, assuming true meaning only after years of study. They complain of critics using it to paint the religion as a science-fiction fantasy.[sup][38][/sup]

I am assuming that you now understand what happened and realize it was incest??? Secondly, it is written that "Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness." It didn't say Ham uncovered his father's nakedness but that he saw it. But, someone did for it is also written, concerning Noah, that "he was uncovered within his tent."

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for the former, you would be wrong. for the latter you cannot apply a law to a past event when the law comes into existence 1-2,000 years after the fact. nor can you apply the meaning because Noah and his family were NOT HEBREWS. there is NOTHING in that passage that says there was sex between canaan and his grandmother, and that assumption does not explain shem's and japeth's actions. you have sex on the brain.

The lineage of Cain and Able is written and as such...isn't heresy. It is misunderstood by many but certainly is not heresy

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you do not know what you are talking about. there was only 1 father and that was adam and there is nothing in any passage of scriptures that indicates they were twins. it is heresy. since there was NO lineage mentioned for abel anywhere in scripture and it may be that he was not married, childless or his desecndents didn't go very far.

Now...was that nice

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yes.

archaeologist5 said:

...you do not know what you are talking about. there was only 1 father and that was adam and there is nothing in any passage of scriptures that indicates they were twins. it is heresy. since there was NO lineage mentioned for abel anywhere in scripture and it may be that he was not married, childless or his desecndents didn't go very far.

....

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arc, Cain is not listed in Adam's genealogy:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Gen 5:6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
Gen 5:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters....


And Cain has children so if he was Adam’s son he would be in Adams genealogy:

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Gen 4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
Gen 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
Gen 4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt....

if you want a response to your point, then the name is NOT 'arc' but archaeologist5.

And Cain has children so if he was Adam’s son he would be in Adams genealogy:

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i had to go and read that comment. ARE THE POSTERS HERE really christian and do they really know the Bible? for you certainly twist it to fit your warped views. read Gen. 4:1--no wait, i will quote fo ryou so it is presented correctly:

"ADAM lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to CAIN..."

you obviously distort scripture for whatever purpose for later in the SAME chapter we have CAIN'S lineage Gen. 4:17-24. Chapter 5 only talks about 1 son NOT ALL sons.

tomwebster said:

And Cain has children so if he was Adam’s son he would be in Adams genealogy:

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Your 3 earth ages belief leads to a kind of stew of Calvinism and Apartheid. Cain was not born fallen his countenance fell Gen 4:5. The off spring of Cain, Enoch, found favor with God. Your reading a Godly bloodline and Satans bloodline threw Cain and Able falls apart. Unless you want to back up and debate God made two types of man. One in Gen 1:26 then later on he made Adam, an other 3-E Ages reading. I have read the 3-E Ages its interesting but it fails to agree with the rest of the bible. Hebrews 11 spells it out, not a hint of Satans being Cains father, its about faith not who your daddy was. The founder of this board and his devoted followers can believe that, I choose to disagree.

Heb 11:4-7
7 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
[sup]5[/sup] By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
[sup]6[/sup] But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
[sup]7[/sup] By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Gen 4:4-7
[sup]4[/sup]and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, [sup]
5[/sup]but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face countenance fell.
[sup]6[/sup]The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? [sup]
7[/sup] If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

Johnoneone said:

Repackaging the bible to any ones wishes is all the rage today. Nothing different with the 3 earth ages, its another in a long line self serving truths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu
Earth ages is the first teaching taught when this message board opened, what do you think its core values are. Freedom of interpretation, the more everyone do it the less crazy 3 earth ages sound. That may be why so many here resist searching the scriptures. If people look to close the my see the truth. Spirits from xenu living again on earth looks a lot like spirits from 1 earth age reliving on earth now. Same story retold using the bible.

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May I ask who you believe resists "searching the scriptures?" It is in searching that one finds truth....and finds the three ages of the earth.

In its public statements, the Church of Scientology has been reluctant to allow any mention of Xenu. A passing mention by a trial judge in 1997 prompted the Church's lawyers to have the ruling sealed, although this was reversed.[sup][52][/sup] In the relatively few instances in which it has acknowledged Xenu, Scientology has stated the story is a religious writing that can be seen as the equivalent of the Old Testament—in which miraculous events are described that are unlikely to have occurred in real life, assuming true meaning only after years of study. They complain of critics using it to paint the religion as a science-fiction fantasy.[sup][38][/sup]

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You must take that up with the church of scientology. It has no place here. You have been given the Word of the Lord and should stay within that to understand. Any questions about this should be from His word as should the answers. Please don't close your mind to this....it is written and rather plainly. It isn't taught but it is written.



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archaeologist5 said:

for the former, you would be wrong. for the latter you cannot apply a law to a past event when the law comes into existence 1-2,000 years after the fact. nor can you apply the meaning because Noah and his family were NOT HEBREWS. there is NOTHING in that passage that says there was sex between canaan and his grandmother, and that assumption does not explain shem's and japeth's actions. you have sex on the brain.

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The Adamic line produced the Hebrews. The Hebrews produced the Israelites....all of which were Adamic.


I'm not sure about the law but because it wasn't yet written doesn't mean it wasn't already understood. Remember, God "walked with Adam" and God "walked with Enoch." And, even those not taught right from wrong know right from wrong. Incest is a big wrong! It is within us to know things without being taught things.


The actions of Shem and Japeth need no explanation.

I have finding truth on the brain.

As for the event between Canaan and his grandmother....it's there for you to see or deny. Either way is of no importance to me. it is just a truth to be gleaned...or not.

you do not know what you are talking about. there was only 1 father and that was adam and there is nothing in any passage of scriptures that indicates they were twins. it is heresy. since there was NO lineage mentioned for abel anywhere in scripture and it may be that he was not married, childless or his desecndents didn't go very far.

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No...there were two fathers involved in the Cain / Abel children. There are scriptures indicating they were twins. If you would approach this differently then discussions could take place...until then you put up walls.

yes.

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Well..that's a matter of opinion, isn't it?



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Johnoneone said:

Your 3 earth ages belief leads to a kind of stew of Calvinism and Apartheid. Cain was not born fallen his countenance fell Gen 4:5. The off spring of Cain, Enoch, found favor with God. Your reading a Godly bloodline and Satans bloodline threw Cain and Able falls apart. Unless you want to back up and debate God made two types of man. One in Gen 1:26 then later on he made Adam, an other 3-E Ages reading. I have read the 3-E Ages its interesting but it fails to agree with the rest of the bible. Hebrews 11 spells it out, not a hint of Satans being Cains father, its about faith not who your daddy was. The founder of this board and his devoted followers can believe that, I choose to disagree.

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No one said Cain was "born fallen." But, he was born of a "fallen angel." :unsure: Where you write, "The offspring of Cain, Enoch, found favor with God," isn't correct. Look at the genealogy of Cain and notice how similar the names are to those of Adam. Cain had an Enoch as did Adam....different Enoch's, different times.





God created mankind on day six. God formed Adam after the seventh day. All races were not from one man and woman.

Heb 11:4-7
7 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
[sup]5[/sup] By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
[sup]6[/sup] But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
[sup]7[/sup] By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Gen 4:4-7
[sup]4[/sup]and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, [sup]
5[/sup]but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face countenance fell.
[sup]6[/sup]The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? [sup]
7[/sup] If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

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The verses you have chosen are very profound. They show that even though Cain was "of that wicked one," God told him, before he "slew his brother Abel".....






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archaeologist5 said:

i had to go and read that comment. ARE THE POSTERS HERE really christian and do they really know the Bible? for you certainly twist it to fit your warped views. read Gen. 4:1--no wait, i will quote fo ryou so it is presented correctly:

"ADAM lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to CAIN..."

you obviously distort scripture for whatever purpose for later in the SAME chapter we have CAIN'S lineage Gen. 4:17-24. Chapter 5 only talks about 1 son NOT ALL sons.

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So arc, what was the sin in the garden? also look up the Hebrew word used in Gen 4:2 "And she again bare his brother Abel..." it's H3254 יסף yâsaph"
A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing) : - add, X again, X any more, X cease, X come more, + conceive again, continue, exceed, X further, X gather together, get more, give moreover, X henceforth, increase (more and more), join, X longer (bring, do, make, much, put), X (the, much, yet) more (and more), proceed (further), prolong, put, be [strong-] er, X yet, yield. Cain and Abel were twins with different fathers. There are a number of studies on this topic throughtout the forum if you want to learn more about it. It doesn't matter to me if you agree or not, or if you answer.

archaeologist5 said:

Gen. 4:1--no wait, i will quote fo ryou so it is presented correctly:

"ADAM lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to CAIN..."

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Genesis 4:1 concerns Eve's second conception; Genesis 3:16 concerns the first, and Genesis 4:25 the third.

Three sons were born; Adam being the father of two as per Genesis 4:1 and Genesis 4:25.

Cain's name is also missing from Luke Chapter 3.

This board is home to people that like to read between the verses. Between Genesis verses 1 and 2 Genesis 4:1 and others. The bible never says eve had twins or satin and eve had a baby named cain. You say all people lived like a spirit in Genesis 1 and 2, now we have bodies in this earth age. I dont think many christians know this or believe it. HammerStone and Mr. Goggin teaches it http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/71-the-first-of-three-earth-ages-bible-study/
The whats new on Nick Goggins site is over a year old. http://www.biblestudysite.com/#new
Its your opinion that eve had twins and satan was the daddy. The bible does not say those words. I dont think a lot of people agree out side this board.

Johnoneone said:

This board is home to people that like to read between the verses. Between Genesis verses 1 and 2 Genesis 4:1 and others. The bible never says eve had twins or satin and eve had a baby named cain. You say all people lived like a spirit in Genesis 1 and 2, now we have bodies in this earth age. I dont think many christians know this or believe it. HammerStone and Mr. Goggin teaches it http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/71-the-first-of-three-earth-ages-bible-study/
The whats new on Nick Goggins site is over a year old. http://www.biblestudysite.com/#new
Its your opinion that eve had twins and satan was the daddy. The bible does not say those words. I dont think a lot of people agree out side this board.

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Oh, but Scripture does say they were twins with two different fathers.