Freedom To Sin

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here are the exact words from my previous post: "No. You are out of fellowship, as John made crystal clear. A child of God remains a child of God."

To be out of fellowship is to not be in communion with God and Christ. That is the meaning of koinonia (which is translated as both communion and fellowship). This does not change the status of a child of God remaining a child of God. This does not mean that salvation is forfeited.

But just as disobedient children are not in fellowship with their parents until they (parents & children) deal with their disobedience, so it is with God and His children.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Heb 12:5-8)

Isn't this your own assumption that God disfellowships the person He chastens?

I don't find it in the text, and I most decidedly didn't see that in life. In fact, it was in His chastening of me that I learned how truly close He always is.

He never leaves you, nor forsakes you, though you may think He is not near, yet He is. Your heart may close to Him, but His heart does not close to you.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is totally incorrect. This is NOT a matter of reconciliation (which was settled at the cross). So you are confused about reconciliation and loss of fellowship even though I have shown you the difference.

God's enmity with mankind is over. That is reconciliation based upon the full penalty of sins being paid by Christ. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing. "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself".
Why would you suppose that God would disfellowship us, when Jesus has provided for our complete reconciliation to Him?

It has everything to do with what we are discussing.

God has forgiven our sins, and now can deal with us as His sons, not the condemned seed of Adam's race.

Having forgiven us our sins, having recreated us righteous, sharing His nature, His own begotten children, having removed us from the source of our sin, the flesh, and having brought us into a new law of life by His Spirit,

Why would He disfellowship us? He promised to never leave us, never forsake us, that we can come to Him for help - His throne of grace - in the time we need.

I believe we are reconciled for the purpose of koinonia with God, and it's in koinonia with God that sins are stopped in their tracks. This is where we find our true power over sin, in God's grace in giving to us Jesus. In Christ, there is no condemnation whatsoever.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And this is my reason for writing.

A little guilt, a little shame, if allowed to stand, work directly against our faith. Our faith is in Christ, and what He did on the cross, and His resurrection, condeming sin in the flesh, and making us alive in the Spirit.

The unbelief is that He has forgiven us, really, truly, completely and forever. This is the doubt that leads us to turn our backs towards God, thinking He's turned His to us. But He does not, and will not.

I can discuss myself, my weaknesses and failings, which are many, with my Father anytime, no matter what, or what state I'm in. He never leaves me, never forsakes me.

As Jesus so often said . . . be it to you according to your faith.

Much love!
Isn't this your own assumption that God disfellowships the person He chastens?

I don't find it in the text, and I most decidedly didn't see that in life. In fact, it was in His chastening of me that I learned how truly close He always is.


Love corrects.
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,544
7,584
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I'm hearing this routinely, that those who teach that we are fully and completely forgiven of our sins, past, present, and future, by the same token preach that we are free to sin "all we want", that "sins don't matter", that we take a light view of sin in some way.

The topic of Gnosticism has come up again. How often have I been called Gnostic? I have no idea. I've heard this for years. But the historical Gnostics were something else altogether.

People bring up the passages which talk about "former sins", as if these sentences were lifted out of their historical place, and were talking about their own lives, some point in each of our lives where we say, "My former sins". We can talk about those.

We can talk about the notion of how a 'creature condemned in sin' is at the same time united by God's Spirit to Himself. Forgiveness must be total, because God is Holy. We can discuss how any incomplete forgiveness has to discount God's holiness.

There is justification, not only declaring us innocent and righteous, but giving birth to us, sharing God's Own nature, righteous and holy. We can talk about that if you want.

What I mostly want to talk about is this idea that believing we are completely and permanently forgiven of all sin past present future somehow releases us into a cesspool of sinning.

I don't see that.

In the first place, well, here's a poll I think I know how everyone will answer.

Do you want to commit sin? Do you wake up in the morning thinking, OH, I hope I can get in some sinning today! Maybe even a little depravity? Anyone?

Or is it more like what Paul said,

Romans 5:18-21 to 6:1-7 KJV
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Aren't these more what we want?

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

What I like talking about is how when we come to understand that there really IS no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, that this unlocks our faith to stand in His grace.

Much love!
Our first parents had freedom to sin and they exercised that freedom the which brought ruin. Is it any different today? Sin is the path to ruin even death. Sins consequences are non negotiable!
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,803
2,895
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
From what I have seen of people who claim to be Christian but are only religious and not worthy of Christ at all as I see it, but are of Satanist masquerading as Christians, All Sodomites, Gays, child molesters and all who support such people are on the path that leads to Hell, such people are not worthy of God at all. They can't enter the Kingdom of God in fact and the Bible list all who can not enter such because they are truly not worthy.

The Bible points out that if your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees ?

All people are condemned by abiding in their own worldly works, as such is but filthy rags.

I have had so called Christians showing excessive pride in the glee of claiming being saved from all Sin regardless of what they do :rolleyes: it's a get out of Jail card for them that they take excessive pride in. so they truly have no regard as to Sin in fact, they claim to be able to do what ever they want now, rape, steal, rip people off, support all ungodly things, push and peddle the Gay cause with no regard everything is open slather for any such depravity.

We have seen this Satanist working within the churches masquerading as Priest, who are child molesters in fact and they support depravity, they even have children who they reject are their own :eek:, they support all such nonsense and they gladly follow foolish trends and love to be fitting in with the fools is important to them, not to mention they are actively supporting backing up the atheist in society. Jesus said you ill know them by their works.

New age Christianity is desperately trying to fit in with the world. it's a what ever floats your boat and with that their get out of Jail card added so you can Sin freely now. so why would not a Satanist creep adopt such a handle, they have nothing to loose ? come join and support the so called Jews ? They are gods people don't you know ? come and idolise a deity ! a saviour ? Satan the saviour ? he will give you everything ! remember he tried playing them cards with Jesus Christ.

You must truly repent of your sins, it' is not a one off thing that you buy into done deal nonsense.
What if you did someone wrong and you say sorry ? does that truly cut it ? no you must be truly sorry in depth willing to go the extra mile with one as just saying sorry may not cut it, because such a one may step on your foot again and again with no regards at all. so the value in their word is clearly nothing.

You can not have disregard for others, are you your brothers keeper ?
 

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm hearing this routinely, that those who teach that we are fully and completely forgiven of our sins, past, present, and future, by the same token preach that we are free to sin "all we want", that "sins don't matter", that we take a light view of sin in some way.

The topic of Gnosticism has come up again. How often have I been called Gnostic? I have no idea. I've heard this for years. But the historical Gnostics were something else altogether.

People bring up the passages which talk about "former sins", as if these sentences were lifted out of their historical place, and were talking about their own lives, some point in each of our lives where we say, "My former sins". We can talk about those.

We can talk about the notion of how a 'creature condemned in sin' is at the same time united by God's Spirit to Himself. Forgiveness must be total, because God is Holy. We can discuss how any incomplete forgiveness has to discount God's holiness.

There is justification, not only declaring us innocent and righteous, but giving birth to us, sharing God's Own nature, righteous and holy. We can talk about that if you want.

What I mostly want to talk about is this idea that believing we are completely and permanently forgiven of all sin past present future somehow releases us into a cesspool of sinning.

I don't see that.

In the first place, well, here's a poll I think I know how everyone will answer.

Do you want to commit sin? Do you wake up in the morning thinking, OH, I hope I can get in some sinning today! Maybe even a little depravity? Anyone?

Or is it more like what Paul said,

Romans 5:18-21 to 6:1-7 KJV
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Aren't these more what we want?

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

What I like talking about is how when we come to understand that there really IS no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, that this unlocks our faith to stand in His grace.

Much love!
We are free from sin! But it is the sin that condemned all men that have no trust in Christ. This is the sin of unbelief. A child of God no longer is under the penalty of sin. As we live our lives in the flesh we have not received a glorified body yet. So we sometimes commit sin. Paul wrote shall we sin that grace may abound. God forbid. We should yield ourselves unto God. Are we always successful? No. That is where chastisements come in. Paul wrote we are chastised when we walk against God’s will. He received his understanding into this matter from the Lord revealing him Psalms 89. A child of God that sins is chastised. And as Paul said if you are without chastisement you are a bastard and not a child of God. The righteous fight this battle everyday. Paul himself said when I desire to good evil is present and when I desire to do evil good is present. The Christians fight this battle every day. Whereas the lost will not they have no conflict in them.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hello

@marks is using the term "Freedom," in the title, i.e. "Freedom to sin," whereas, what he is wanting to discuss is our "ability to freely chose" to sin and that this leads to a breaking of any relationship that we may have had with God.

Another word that is appropriate is liberty, i.e. "liberty to sin," where our liberty is defined within a framework of "laws," in this case, of God, where we have the liberty to reject or accept the terms whereby we can have a meaningful and lasting relationship with God.

Our "freedom," which is spiritual in nature, comes about because of our choice to only worship Him as the one and only God that we can openly worship, in preference to any other god, and thereby rejecting the sin that we were born with.

However, when we then chose to turn away from God, after committing our lives to a relationship with Him, we "SIN," and the manifested sins that we then commit, are there to indicate to us that we have gone outside of the boundary conditions of our relationship with Him, and consequently have become a candidate for the second death in that we will "die the second death" at the end of the age of the ages when we are herded into the Lake of Fire along with every other person who has rejected God and His terms for relationship.

However, a righteous man if he sins and comes to his senses and repents of his committed sin of turning away from God, before he physically draws his last breath, will live and not become one of the many that goes into the Lake of Fire at the end of the ages and he will "live."

If we repent of turning away from God and receive God's forgiveness for turning away from Him then all of our manifested sins, that are a sign to us of our turning away from God, are also forgiven, but the consequences arising from those manifested sins is not taken away from us and we have to work our way through those consequences in a Godly fashion. It is how we work through the consequences of our manifested sins, that is a measure of our character.

The sad thing is that because we flip flop through life and do not remember the times when we have turned away from God, until God brings it forward as an issue that He has with us will we then decide to actually repent of our sin(s) of turning away from God.

God, around 7-8 years after King David manifested his turning away from God, with his initial liaison with with Bathsheba, sent Nathan the Prophet to King David, to point out David's sin of turning away from God, to challenge him of his primary sin which is recounted in the story that Nathan challenged King David with. Nathen also confirmed to David that he also had to deal with the consequences of his manifested sins that he had committed while he had turned away from God. King David, had turned away from God and had begun to act "god" like in his actions. In becoming "god" like, David had stolen the hearths of the people away from God in that they no longer kept the statutes of God and applied the applicable penalties to the guilty parties.

Wow, there is more to the liberties that we take when we decide to sin against God.

Shalom
 
Last edited:

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
We are free from sin!
That should say "We are BEING FREED from sin". It is an ongoing process. The problem is that too many Christians and too many threads are focused on sins and sinning instead of righteous deeds and righteousness. Christians are spending too much time and energy on sins and sinning. That is not what God wants.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That should say "We are BEING FREED from sin". It is an ongoing process. The problem is that too many Christians and too many threads are focused on sins and sinning instead of righteous deeds and righteousness. Christians are spending too much time and energy on sins and sinning. That is not what God wants.


Christians are spending too much time and energy on sins and sinning.

Speaking for yourself, or others?

Being made free from sin? Or, Free from sin?

Romans 6:1-23 KJV
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


I don't know about anyone else, but the way I read this, if we've been born again, we are freed from sin.

Now go an live accordingly! It's what we've been reborn for.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amazed@grace

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello

@marks is using the term "Freedom," in the title, i.e. "Freedom to sin," whereas, what he is wanting to discuss is our "ability to freely chose" to sin and that this leads to a breaking of any relationship that we may have had with God.

Another word that is appropriate is liberty, i.e. "liberty to sin," where our liberty is defined within a framework of "laws," in this case, of God, where we have the liberty to reject or accept the terms whereby we can have a meaningful and lasting relationship with God.

Our "freedom," which is spiritual in nature, comes about because of our choice to only worship Him as the one and only God that we can openly worship, in preference to any other god, and thereby rejecting the sin that we were born with.

However, when we then chose to turn away from God, after committing our lives to a relationship with Him, we "SIN," and the manifested sins that we then commit, are there to indicate to us that we have gone outside of the boundary conditions of our relationship with Him, and consequently have become a candidate for the second death in that we will "die the second death" at the end of the age of the ages when we are herded into the Lake of Fire along with every other person who has rejected God and His terms for relationship.

However, a righteous man if he sins and comes to his senses and repents of his committed sin of turning away from God, before he physically draws his last breath, will live and not become one of the many that goes into the Lake of Fire at the end of the ages and he will "live."

If we repent of turning away from God and receive God's forgiveness for turning away from Him then all of our manifested sins, that are a sign to us of our turning away from God, are also forgiven, but the consequences arising from those manifested sins is not taken away from us and we have to work our way through those consequences in a Godly fashion. It is how we work through the consequences of our manifested sins, that is a measure of our character.

The sad thing is that because we flip flop through life and do not remember the times when we have turned away from God, until God brings it forward as an issue that He has with us will we then decide to actually repent of our sin(s) of turning away from God.

God, around 7-8 years after King David manifested his turning away from God, with his initial liaison with with Bathsheba, sent Nathan the Prophet to King David, to point out David's sin of turning away from God, to challenge him of his primary sin which is recounted in the story that Nathan challenged King David with. Nathen also confirmed to David that he also had to deal with the consequences of his manifested sins that he had committed while he had turned away from God. King David, had turned away from God and had begun to act "god" like in his actions. In becoming "god" like, David had stolen the hearths of the people away from God in that they no longer kept the statutes of God and applied the applicable penalties to the guilty parties.

Wow, there is more to the liberties that we take when we decide to sin against God.

Shalom
Ross have you every read the sower? We the Lord himself tell us the interpretation of it. And at the end of it someone says to him. Your mother seeks to see you but can’t get to you for the crowd was to great. He replies to the individual that my brother and my mother are those who hear the word and obey it. Only one of the hears met that description and those were those that heard the word on the good ground. Then read psalm 89 and read the promise of God to those in Christ. I believe you will get a better understanding of those that fall away.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Ross have you every read the sower? We the Lord himself tell us the interpretation of it. And at the end of it someone says to him. Your mother seeks to see you but can’t get to you for the crowd was to great. He replies to the individual that my brother and my mother are those who hear the word and obey it. Only one of the hears met that description and those were those that heard the word on the good ground. Then read psalm 89 and read the promise of God to those in Christ. I believe you will get a better understanding of those that fall away.

You make a good point, as the people during this present time are concerned about the cares of this world as the thorns grows up around us today, they seek a means of escape before the time of their harvest without being refined during the times when tribulation will come upon them, even during this present age.

But sadly it seems to me that you have not understood the point of King David's primary sin of acting God like among the people. It is a common fault of people and can be observed by the sins that are being manifested because of their primary sin of turning away from God.

I have a very different take on the Parable of the Sower as I can see the similarities of this parable with the prophetic word given in Ezekiel 47:1-12 as it provides an explanation of why the increase in the harvest is so small until the good soil is available for the scattered seed to take root in. In the Parable of the Sower, I can see the story of the journey of the sower as He travels from his home to where the field and the difference of the ground along the way where the seed falls and the level of the harvest is when the seeds that have fallen come to their full maturity.

Now you referenced the account of the parable of the sower that is found in Luke 8 in your quoted post above, and I can understand that you have arrived at what my understanding is also of this parable. As for Psalm 89, we probably have a different understanding of what is being prophetically spoken about in this Psalm, and any discussion on this Psalm is not in keeping with the OP for this thread.

King David committed the same primary sin of turning away from God, from memory, three times during His reign while he lived in Jerusalem. Each time when King David realised that he had turned away from God, he repented of his sin and was forgiven for turning away from God each time that it had happened.

The primary sin of turning away from God is difficult to qualify in real life, whereas the manifested sin that follow our turning away from God are much easier to qualify in real life because of the associated deeds that we commit after we turn away from God. David's associated manifested deeds about the time of his first recorded time of turning away from God about the 13th year of his reign, was adultery and murder. The Israelites also turn away from God following David's example and loved David more than they loved God and so God's wrath was also on the Israelites in David's kingdom and King David had to stand and offer up a sacrifice on their behalf to quell God's wrath against the Israelites. The Nation of the Israelites had also committed the same primary sin as King David, in that they too had turned away from God.

In many Churches today, we are seeing that when the "Senior" Pastor over the respective church has turned away from God that the congregation have also turned away from God because of their love of their Senior Pastor, who in their eyes can do no wrong. The manifested sins that accompany the "Senior Pastor" turning away from God include adultery and embezzlement just to name two manifested sins as examples.

Sadly, the churches whose senior pastor has turned away from God, is exposed, they churches disintegrates with many in the congregation leaving to find another "Senior Pastor" to worship. It can take many years for these churches to be healed and become effective once more in God's ministry.

Yes we can freely chose to sin, but the primary first sin that we commit is our turning away from God. which is then followed by the sins that manifest themselves and we can know that we are sinning in these manifested sins, but few people are able to recognise their primary sin of actually turning away from God. The people freely chose to not repent of this sin like King David did when God challenged him through the the Prophet Nathan who told King David the story of the king who stole the "lamb," i.e. Israel, from an "old man," i.e. God.

Shalom
 

Jlentz

Member
May 6, 2021
83
24
8
68
Usa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This does make sense to me, and you've said something like this before. I'm still thinking on this, but it does make sense to me.

Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Much love!
That was before God gave it to Moses. Christ fulfilled the law. But we still sin. Because you accept Christ doesn't mean you quit sinning. I have never met you but I know you sinned today. A thought, a lie, there was something.
 

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You make a good point, as the people during this present time are concerned about the cares of this world as the thorns grows up around us today, they seek a means of escape before the time of their harvest without being refined during the times when tribulation will come upon them, even during this present age.

But sadly it seems to me that you have not understood the point of King David's primary sin of acting God like among the people. It is a common fault of people and can be observed by the sins that are being manifested because of their primary sin of turning away from God.

I have a very different take on the Parable of the Sower as I can see the similarities of this parable with the prophetic word given in Ezekiel 47:1-12 as it provides an explanation of why the increase in the harvest is so small until the good soil is available for the scattered seed to take root in. In the Parable of the Sower, I can see the story of the journey of the sower as He travels from his home to where the field and the difference of the ground along the way where the seed falls and the level of the harvest is when the seeds that have fallen come to their full maturity.

Now you referenced the account of the parable of the sower that is found in Luke 8 in your quoted post above, and I can understand that you have arrived at what my understanding is also of this parable. As for Psalm 89, we probably have a different understanding of what is being prophetically spoken about in this Psalm, and any discussion on this Psalm is not in keeping with the OP for this thread.

King David committed the same primary sin of turning away from God, from memory, three times during His reign while he lived in Jerusalem. Each time when King David realised that he had turned away from God, he repented of his sin and was forgiven for turning away from God each time that it had happened.

The primary sin of turning away from God is difficult to qualify in real life, whereas the manifested sin that follow our turning away from God are much easier to qualify in real life because of the associated deeds that we commit after we turn away from God. David's associated manifested deeds about the time of his first recorded time of turning away from God about the 13th year of his reign, was adultery and murder. The Israelites also turn away from God following David's example and loved David more than they loved God and so God's wrath was also on the Israelites in David's kingdom and King David had to stand and offer up a sacrifice on their behalf to quell God's wrath against the Israelites. The Nation of the Israelites had also committed the same primary sin as King David, in that they too had turned away from God.

In many Churches today, we are seeing that when the "Senior" Pastor over the respective church has turned away from God that the congregation have also turned away from God because of their love of their Senior Pastor, who in their eyes can do no wrong. The manifested sins that accompany the "Senior Pastor" turning away from God include adultery and embezzlement just to name two manifested sins as examples.

Sadly, the churches whose senior pastor has turned away from God, is exposed, they churches disintegrates with many in the congregation leaving to find another "Senior Pastor" to worship. It can take many years for these churches to be healed and become effective once more in God's ministry.

Yes we can freely chose to sin, but the primary first sin that we commit is our turning away from God. which is then followed by the sins that manifest themselves and we can know that we are sinning in these manifested sins, but few people are able to recognise their primary sin of actually turning away from God. The people freely chose to not repent of this sin like King David did when God challenged him through the the Prophet Nathan who told King David the story of the king who stole the "lamb," i.e. Israel, from an "old man," i.e. God.

Shalom
Sir you take on the parable does not trump the Lord’s explanation of it. Let God be true and every man a liar.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That was before God gave it to Moses. Christ fulfilled the law. But we still sin. Because you accept Christ doesn't mean you quit sinning. I have never met you but I know you sinned today. A thought, a lie, there was something.
I'm not sure we're on the same page here.

Much love!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Sir your take on the parable does not trump the Lord’s explanation of it. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Be as it maybe, you are entitled to your opinion as to the meaning of the parable of the sower.

All that I have suggested is that as the sower walks out to the field that there is also a time element to this same parable as the sower is walking to the field that has been prepared for the field of great harvest. This is not contrary to the explanation that Christ gave for the various stations along the journey that the sower took to the prepared field. With that being said, there is a time component to the parable that many do not see as the sower goes from his starting point towards the field.

The parable of the sower, has the same essences as the prophetic word that Ezekiel brought in 47:1-12. It is my understanding that the Ezekiel prophecy in 47:1-12 spans a time period of around 4,000 plus years where the plus years happen when the river of life flows over the escarpment into the valley below to bring healing to the land in the valley.

Shalom
 

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Be as it maybe, you are entitled to your opinion as to the meaning of the parable of the sower.

All that I have suggested is that as the sower walks out to the field that there is also a time element to this same parable as the sower is walking to the field that has been prepared for the field of great harvest. This is not contrary to the explanation that Christ gave for the various stations along the journey that the sower took to the prepared field. With that being said, there is a time component to the parable that many do not see as the sower goes from his starting point towards the field.

The parable of the sower, has the same essences as the prophetic word that Ezekiel brought in 47:1-12. It is my understanding that the Ezekiel prophecy in 47:1-12 spans a time period of around 4,000 plus years where the plus years happen when the river of life flows over the escarpment into the valley below to bring healing to the land in the valley.

Shalom
Sir it was my opinion but Christ’s explanation of it.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Sir it was my opinion but Christ’s explanation of it.

As I said in my previous post,

Be as it maybe, you are entitled to your opinion as to the meaning of the parable of the sower.

But, your opinion does not make what I have posted wrong. I have no issue with what Christ said as to the meaning of what He said.

What is your issue with my explanation that, the Parable of the Sower, also has a time element in its telling as the sower walked from his "home" to the prepared fertile filed.

Just because you cannot perceive it, as being in the "scriptures," does not make what I have suggested wrong.

Sadly, many people state that if it is written in the scriptures, then they believe it. Sadly many are not able to comprehend all that is written within the scriptures.

Anyway your beef, with what I have previously written in this thread, is way off topic, for this thread.

Shalom
 

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This does make sense to me, and you've said something like this before. I'm still thinking on this, but it does make sense to me.

Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Much love!
Mark let me go one further. The sin you speak of is the sin of having no trust. Which most refer this to Faith. The Lord said he would teach us of the sin that keeps us from his righteousness. He tells us that when the HS comes he would teach the world of sin. Then he explains this sin as not having trust in Christ. As far as us messing up after we come to Christ in trust. Psalms 89 addresses that issue. As Paul wrote if you are without chastisement you are not a child of the Father but a bastard. Gods knows we are still in the flesh and if any man says he has never sinned after coming to Christ is a liar. For no man has ever kept the perfect law of God in the Flesh. For what man has honored God with their whole heart everyday, every minute. Or who has never coveted once coming to Christ. And as the law says it you are guilty of the least your guilty of them all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity
Status
Not open for further replies.