When we are born.

marks · May 5, 2021

David H. said:
the ones who are teaching complacency

If ever you are able to understand . . .

Because I believe what God says, that we are in fact complete in Christ, that we have in fact become entirely and fully new, patterned after God Himself, because I believe when God tells me He's given me everything I need for life, and for godliness, already done, already new, already promised,

Because I believe these things IN NO WISE equals complaceny, which would be only one of many possible responses to these truths.

Some may become complacent, thinking there is nothing left to do.
Some may become disbelieving, thinking this is to bizarre to be real.
Some may become self-condemning, thinking this means they should have become sinless.
Some may become self-righteous, and condemning of others.
Some may become dispondant, feeling their case is hopeless.
Some may become empowered, discovering the reality of what God means when He says, the one who has died is freed from sin.

Be it to you according to your faith.

Much love!

marks · May 5, 2021

David H. said:
the ones who teach that you have all you need and you need not grow in Grace and the riches he has to offer us.

Not grow in grace? and in His riches?

Do you attribute these words to me???

Utter nonsense. This is what I'm talking about, there's something wrong when you have to keep trying to make me look bad by making these absurd claims.

Realize this . . . it's not me, it's not you, it's not the other guy who reads this thread. God know me. God knows you. God reads both of our words. Words. Every idle . . . useless . . . meaningless word.

Much love!

David H. · May 5, 2021

marks said:
That's not what I asked you.

Are you saying Paul's teachings changed over time? Not his understanding, Paul's theology, rather, the letters he wrote. Did his teaching change

His teaching matured, and grew as he grew in the faith. When You are a child you understand an apple as a good snack to eat, as you grow Older you may learn about how they grow and their cell structure if you study their biology, but they are still the same apple you just see that apple as more than just a snack that tastes good. Now of course you are welcome to not discover the biology of the apple and still enjoy it as a snack food But you cannot claim to Know the apple in its fulness because you do not. But to say the person who desires to know the full biology of the apple can no longer enjoy it as a snack is fool hardy. Do You understand this analogy?

marks said:
You're "one size fits all", "This is what I know, so this is all there is . . ."

Yes indeed, Complacency is the Number one Problem in the church today, fix that problem and she will begin to soar with eagles, and the reluctance to fix this problem keeps her grounded. Are there other problems in the church, yes, but whrn this one is fixed and she learns how to fly again, she will fix those problems along the way.

Tozer Wrote a book on this, called Rut, Rot or Revival, one you should read.

This devotional should give you some idea of the content of what the book speaks of:
Fleeing the Rut
If we call Him Lord, how dare we sit any longer in the rut! The Lord has called us to move on. But when people are in a rut, not even the angel Gabriel can help them if they will not come out of it. This is not an accusation but a suggestion. If you are not in a rut, don't get mad—somebody else is. But if you are in a rut you ought to get out of it. The difference between a wooden leg and a good leg is that if you prick a wooden leg the person would never notice. The difference between a church that has dry rot and a church that is alive is that if you prick the live church it will respond. If you prick the other kind, it is already dead. The tree that stands alive has lush, green leaves. Take a knife, scar the bark deeply and the tree will bleed. It is alive. The old dead tree just stands there, a watchtower for old sentinel crows. Take your knife and dig in as far as you want to, and nothing will happen because the tree is dead. So it is with my message. If you will get neither mad nor glad nor sad under my preaching, I know nothing can be done. But there are some who are alive, and I believe it is the majority.

Tozer Devotional | Fleeing the Rut (cmalliance.org)

If you scroll the previous and following days at the site you will get the Gist of his Book from which the above excerpt is taken. I highly suggest you do.

David H. · May 5, 2021

marks said:
Do you attribute these words to me???

This is what your theology in this post promotes. This is why I am standing against it because it is encouraging believers to become complacent. So Yes those words are directed at you, I am sorry to say.

marks · May 5, 2021

David H. said:
His teaching matured, and grew as he grew in the faith.

So that's a "yes"?

Confirm?

marks · May 5, 2021

David H. said:
This is what your theology in this post promotes. This is why I am standing against it because it is encouraging believers to become complacent. So Yes those words are directed at you, I am sorry to say.

Before, you said, Teach. Now, you say, Promote.

David H. said:
The Ones limiting faith are the ones who are teaching complacency to the believer, the ones who teach that you have all you need and you need not grow in Grace and the riches he has to offer us.

What will you say next?

You don't know what I think, and you don't understand my theology.

Your choice whether you continue in your slander. Try to choose well.

Much love!

marks · May 5, 2021

Just for the record . . .

Paul's teaching in the Bible did not change, or "develop" over time.

If you believe that Paul wrote down whatever is was he thought at the time, and that his opinions changed over the years, and you can see that in his letters as his teachings were different later,

If this is your idea, I cannot share it. I look at God as the Author the Bible, and He didn't need to figure it out as He went along. The Bible completely agrees within itself, no contradiction, only misunderstanding. I believe the Bible divinely inspired, and without mistakes.

Much love!

David H. · May 5, 2021

marks said:
What will you say next?

Rot Sharing
There is a third word, and I do not particularly like to use it, but the history of the Church is filled with it. The word is rot. The church is afflicted by dry rot. This is best explained when the psychology of nonexpectation takes over and spiritual rigidity sets in, which is an inability to visualize anything better, a lack of desire for improvement. There are many who respond by arguing, "I know lots of evangelical churches that would like to grow, and they do their best to get the crowds in. They want to grow and have contests to make their Sunday school larger." That is true, but they are trying to get people to come and share their rut. They want people to help them celebrate the rote and finally join in the rot. Because the Holy Spirit is not given a chance to work in our services, nobody is repenting. For the most part, spiritual rigidity that cannot bend is too weak to know just how weak it is.

Prayer
Lord, help us to not become spiritually rigid, getting so caught up in the rote and rut that it turns to rot. Let us be ever mindful of Your presence, Lord. When we lose our vision for more than the status quo in our churches, convict us, Holy Spirit, and bring us to our knees for revival. Amen.

Tozer Devotional | Rot Sharing (cmalliance.org)

marks · May 5, 2021

marks said:
You don't know what I think, and you don't understand my theology.

Your choice whether you continue in your slander. Try to choose well.

Much love!

amigo de christo · May 5, 2021

marks said:
That's not what I asked you.

Are you saying Paul's teachings changed over time? Not his understanding, Paul's theology, rather, the letters he wrote. Did his teaching change?

Much love!

His teachings never changed . In the letters we have in that bible , they are all truth . Yes indeed . Let the LORD be PRAISED .

marks · May 5, 2021

amigo de christo said:
His teachings never changed . In the letters we have in that bible , they are all truth . Yes indeed . Let the LORD be PRAISED .

They are a life line to me!!

Much love! Praise to Jesus!!!!

David H. · May 6, 2021

amigo de christo said:
His teachings never changed . In the letters we have in that bible , they are all truth . Yes indeed . Let the LORD be PRAISED .

His teaching matured, He reveals deeper truths in his prison Epistles than he does in his early epistles.

marks · May 6, 2021

David H. said:
His teaching matured, He reveals deeper truths in his prison Epistles than he does in his early epistles.

I'd suggest that all deserve equal weight.

It wasn't Paul's teaching, unless, that is, you are thinking Paul was the one who decided what to write, and how to write it.

I believe God inspired the entire Bible.

"Shallower and deeper Biblical truths", that doen't describe how I think of Scripture.

Much love!

amigo de christo · May 6, 2021

Stand firm upon The LORD . Let none sway us from biblical truth .
For many men have crept into churches which have agendas . To break down the churches over time
and replace biblical sound doctrine with mens agendas . SO let everyone be on gaurd .
Test all things that anyone says and do so against biblical doctrine . Now i have but three more words ........PRAISE THE LORD .

David H. · May 6, 2021

marks said:
I'd suggest that all deserve equal weight.

It wasn't Paul's teaching, unless, that is, you are thinking Paul was the one who decided what to write, and how to write it.

I believe God inspired the entire Bible.

"Shallower and deeper Biblical truths", that doen't describe how I think of Scripture.

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (1 Corinthians 2:7)
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10)

that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (Ephesians 3:8-10)

All You are doing with your statement is closing the door to divine revelation, which is Textualism in a nutshell. Remember there was a church in revelation that closed the door to Jesus too, HMM!?

marks · May 6, 2021

David H. said:
is closing the door to divine revelation

It seems to me that I'm paying more attention to the Bible than you are. You consider some of Paul's teach shallow by comparison to other parts.

I consider all of Paul's letters the Very Word of God Himself. All the Bible.

I believe God inspired the entire Bible.

"Shallower and deeper Biblical truths", that doen't describe how I think of Scripture.

Much love!

David H. · May 6, 2021

marks said:
It seems to me that I'm paying more attention to the Bible than you are. You consider some of Paul's teach shallow by comparison to other parts.

I consider all of Paul's letters the Very Word of God Himself. All the Bible.

In saying some of his teaching is more mature, I am NOT inferring that his other teachings are "shallow" or not the word of God or Not true. That is the response of a closed minded individual that is unable to see The deep things of God, One who has never had any divine revelation and the Word of God coming alive as the Holy Ghost has taught them. Is this you?

David H. · May 6, 2021

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1 Corinthians 13:11-12)

Behold · May 6, 2021

David H. said:
When we the body are complete we will perform greater works than the Son of Man did.

Jesus does not say that "when the body of Christ is complete, you will do greater works then me".

So, David, you always teach very strange theology that you just make up, at random.

There is no verse in the NT that says, that the "body has to be complete" before we do "greater works" then Christ.
Yet that is what you just said.
So, why do you make up odd theology and bring it to forums?

Are you using the book of Mormon, or the JW material, or some off the wall "cult of mary" handbook?
I suspect you just make it up, as usual.

marks · May 6, 2021

David H. said:
In saying some of his teaching is more mature, I am NOT inferring that his other teachings are "shallow" or not the word of God or Not true. That is the response of a closed minded individual that is unable to see The deep things of God, One who has never had any divine revelation and the Word of God coming alive as the Holy Ghost has taught them. Is this you?

You are offering your comparative assessment of Paul's writings, "This is more mature than that", ergo, "that is less mature than this". You do not see this?

And because you do not see that you are making a qualitative comparison between Paul's teachings, you attribute my comments to me being "closed minded", "unable to see the deep things of God", "has never had any divine revelation", and so on, you can read the rest, you know, you wrote it.

And this because I point out that in calling something "more mature" you are defacto calling something else, "less mature", or "shallow" was another word I used.

I mean, Wow!!

When we are born.

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